The Hunt Public Shaming Needs to end

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamFyi

This part in particular is vague at best. People on have different perspectives on the matter. Pulling the mark quickly can be seen as disruptive behavior to some people, and players that alert other players of said person can also be seen as disruptive behavior to others because it negatively affects their experience.

---

Seen as disruptive? Maybe. But it falls within the mechanics and design of the game so there is no way it could possibly be considered against the ToS.

Not sure why you are all still debating this, public shaming via shout is harassment, people get banned from the forums for name shaming and in game it shouldn't be any different. Personally if I see anybody doing this I will blist the person doing the public shaming and report them for harassment.

Seems like people just want to feel special and ruin other people's experience and if you're publicly shaming somebody you're no better than the people you consider "early pullers". You're just another asshole trying to get attention who thinks they're entitled to everything because you pay a sub.

I'm glad hunt linkshells on my server don't seem to be doing this, there is still public shaming but no ls I'm in has ever tried to get specific people blisted. It's sad because a lot of the time the people doing the most shouts are showing up close to 5 minutes after I see the callout in 2 linkshells.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

When you pull before the called time, it is as obvious an early pull as night is from day.

---

This mentality of yours is the problem. Who made you the one in charge of declaring when a open world mob can be killed?

Let's just assume for a second that you have a hunt LS and I wanted to join your hunt LS. You could have rules for joining which state that I may not pull before the officially declared time and I am not allowed to be the time caller without being promoted to official time caller first. If I agree to your rule, then I get the benefit of every time the LS learns the position of a hunt then I will be notified and nobody else in this same hunt LS will pull before the declared time. This is all fine and dandy in the scope of the LS or even possibly group of hunt LS'.

The problem is that I did not join your hunt LS. Additionally, simply buying the game from SE and having an agreement with them for service did not also bind me to your hunt LS rules. If I don't agree with your rules then I will not join your hunt LS, doesn't mean I have to cancel my sub or move elsewhere. You do not have that authority to declare.

This is similar to joining a PF group vs joining a DF group.

What you are suggesting is the same as saying that you can join the DF as a tank and as soon as the dungeon starts declaring that the healer gear is yours if it drops. It was not agreed upon prior to the dungeon entry so you have no grounds for making such a demand on the other players.

However, if you start a PF group and declare before entry that the healer gear is yours then people have the option to either join or not join. This is like your hunt LS, you make the rules for your group and you enforce them amongst yourselves. You have no room to make demands on me to not pull whenever I want if I have not agreed to your rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cadmar

.... But it falls within the mechanics and design of the game so there is no way it could possibly be considered against the ToS.

---

Early pulling and wiping people in CT falls within the design and mechanics too. Better yet what does NOT fall within the mechanics and design of the game? RMT/Gil sale is about all you'd get based on that criteria.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ColeSlawter

This mentality of yours is the problem. Who made you the one in charge of declaring when a open world mob can be killed?

---

I am not in charge. I usually ask what is the pull time? And people will all put out numbers and people will quickly converge to something. It never hurts to ask for the called pull time. The early pullers think that they are special and can just show up and ignore everyone else, and then call everyone else names when they let them die and won't res them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ColeSlawter

What you are suggesting is the same as saying that you can join the DF as a tank and as soon as the dungeon starts declaring that the healer gear is yours if it drops.

---

Huh? This analogy is doesn't even make sense whatsoever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ColeSlawter

Additionally, simply buying the game from SE and having an agreement with them for service did not also bind me to your hunt LS rules.

---

You are not bound, but you would be advised to be aware and not deliberately early pull. It is like you bought your plane ticket from the airline, but if you deliberately try to cut in line at boarding or whatever you might get way with it a few times but before you know you will likely be talking to authorities shortly after, or make the news like those started fighting on the plane.

---------------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cadmar

...
But.. an open world mob that has nothing at all blocking it is open game. ..

---

Open world or instanced, it does not matter. Beside a elite mark is instanced (you say spawn) for a time at a spot. No matter, obvious trolls are obvious and will do trollish things. This is all easily observable because they want an audience and want to repeat their performances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Keep on believing that lie. When you pull before the called time, it is as obvious an early pull as night is from day.

---

Ok. I'll bite. Tell me then. Who gets to decide when the pull should happen? What makes you or your LS, or whatever think that you get to tell everyone else how to play? Sorry, but if a mob is in the open world it is fair game 24/7/365.

As for me personally... I'll wait a limited amount of time to pull (like 2-3 minutes) but if someone else doesn't? So what?! I guarantee you.. it will spawn again and life will go on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cadmar

I'll wait a limited amount of time to pull (like 2-3 minutes) but if someone else doesn't? So what?! I guarantee you.. it will spawn again and life will go on.

---

Annnnd this is the correct way to act like an adult. No need to throw a hissy fit guys, it will spawn again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Early pulling an wiping people in CT falls within the design and mechanics too. Better yet what does NOT fall within the mechanics and design of the game? RMT/Gil sale is about all you'd get based on that criteria.

---

Straw man at it's finest.

But.. an open world mob that has nothing at all blocking it is open game. Period. If you can't see that I know a very good LASIK doctor.

Quote:

---

people get banned from the forums for name shaming and in game it shouldn't be any different.

---

If you're going to use forum behavior as a measurement for what's allowed in the game, then a simple "Will Smith pulled the mob" shout will never get anyone banned ever.

TBQH I think they should make A & S hunts an instance.

Or perhaps SE could do something like a zone message to all players in the area of the A or S rank spawn, a portal forms at the hunts spawn location, where all people could meet at (or LS's can say Hunt at X location portal has 5 minutes til its closes) before the fight commences, while those waiting are in a lock out circle until the timer runs out. Then everyone that made it there on time gets to fight the hunt, those that don't... Please look forward to the next hunt. The hunts HP can scale to the amount of players that showed up for the instance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

I don't know if you ever read the constitution, but certainly doesn't delegate nothing to the lower levels. Not that I agree with the state right advocates, but they would argue that states are at least equal to federal level and on more than one occasion they've fought the federal government over those powers, most famous of course was the civil war. Why else is that Colorado has legalized pot and is direct opposition to the federal courts?

---

Actually the constitution explicitly states that all powers not spelled out explicitly in the constitution are given by default to the states. Welcome to high school govt class. The problem is you think players are states. GMs, RMT teams, forum moderators, the tech guy that bans people etc. Those are the other levels of SE govt. There's SE with broad powers who delegate power to their employees to manage their game on the day to day. Players are not in this chain they click to abide by all of SE'S rules before getting to enter their property (the game) and frolic around with other kids on the playground (actually play their game). GMs are the peacekeepers watching us all act like idiots. They reserve the right to kick yup off their land, issue warnings, etc. They have police power.

Players are GUESTS. Guests have no authority to make rules in someone else's home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thayos

If you're going to use forum behavior as a measurement for what's allowed in the game, then a simple "Will Smith pulled the mob" shout will never get anyone banned ever.

---

I think if somebody is harassing another player they should get a couple warnings and then be banned for harassment. Considering that the forum bans are for name shaming associated with in game screenshots one could make a general assumption that name shaming is harassment and should be treated as such. I'm not saying ban everybody who shouts a name but at least give them a warning and enforce it based on in game harassment policies.

Also, your example is not what most people consider name shaming. Name shaming, as several people have mentioned in this thread, is when people attempt to damage that persons in game experience or reputation by trying to get other people to blist them or by bullying them publicly with rude and/or vulgar language.

Even something as simple as "Xxx pulled!" could lead to harassment. "Lucke Arrayo pulled!" and "Lucke Arrayo pulled! Blacklist him! He sucks!" will both lead to getting blacklisted and getting hateful tells. The way this community is, both of those will set people off in the same way. It shouldn't matter who pulled. Either start fighting the mob, or don't.

Quote:

---

Name shaming, as several people have mentioned in this thread, is when people attempt to damage that persons in game experience or reputation by trying to get other people to blist them or by bullying them publicly with rude and/or vulgar language.

---

Totally agree there's no need for the vulgar language or bullying. Yeah, blatant face-pull trolling annoys me, but it's just a game... and it's not like the handful of people who face-troll do this 24/7.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucke

Even something as simple as "Xxx pulled!" could lead to harassment. "Lucke Arrayo pulled!" and "Lucke Arrayo pulled! Blacklist him! He sucks!" will both lead to getting blacklisted and getting hateful tells. The way this community is, both of those will set people off in the same way. It shouldn't matter who pulled. Either start fighting the mob, or don't.

---

If you say "Xxx pulled", you're just stating what he did. If you say "If you're in a party, FC, LS with Xxx, please ask him to wait for others because there's no benefit to pulling instantly" or something to that effect, I don't see how that's harassment at all. I'd be surprised if you got disciplined for that sort of thing.

If someone else takes that information and then shouts or sends nasty tells about that person's mom, family or otherwise then THAT second person is harassing them. But it's that second person who is doing the harassment that deserves punishment, not the first.

And if some other random player sees that "Xxx pulled" 3-4 times and decides to blacklist that player/kick him out of a hunt LS or his hunting party, I don't see why there's any problem with that. There's nothing in the ToS that says you have to group with or talk to selfish players.


Of course, what constitutes an early pull is up for debate. If you've waited a few minutes, called out a time to attack and went when you said you would, nobody should consider that an early pull.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

And this is what early pullers are doing "Disruptive behavior that negatively affects the experience of others."

---

What if your LS decides that needs to wait 5 minutes, and another LS decides 4 minutes is enough? What about those who come 6 minutes after its called and start shouting abuse, saying "early puller *insert random mispelt expletives here*"? What about when half the server turns up and "Disrupts" those on PS3s that cannot then even see the mob? Should you Blist and cal out those who came after too? As they disrupting some players experience.

Also, due to comparing a non-issue to a real life serious issue, consider yourself reported :)

Not to mention your previous posts are prmoting going against the EULA by harrasing and disrupting others gameplay due to a made up ideal of "early puller". Whereas in fact, if the mob dies, it wasn't early. If there arent enough to kill and they die, then you can consider it early.

Also, as has happened, auto run, look away for 2 mins, and run straight into a hunt mob. Players go all smack happy instead of letting the person go splat or auto run there merry way till it resets. Are you going to harrass, name and shame the one on auto run or the ones who went all red line and attacked? First was an unintential accident, the follow up zerg is fully intentional.

Let's not forget, you accuse someone else of acting like a GM when all they did was quote a GMs reply when this issue was brought up before whilst demanding others should follow your rules otherwise they face harrasment from you and others you tell to do so. So it is you who should relaise you are just a player with no rights to set any form of rules to anyone outside of any LS, party or FC that players join and agree to said rules.

Geez - this thread is still going. Personally, I don't think there is any such thing as an early pull unless people can do the legendary FFXI 'pull before the NM even shows up on NA players screens', in which case that may be a tad 'early' to we NA folk... But seriously, killing an S mark with 70+ other = boring and snooze-fest. Taking my own party of 8 and trying to beat it = challenge and fun. I don't know about others, but one of those two seems a bit more what the word 'hunt' implies, and is more exciting, as well!

What I think would be great...for Hunts only, have a claim system like the old FFXI (I know this isn't FFXI so no need to tell me). Those who find a hunt, as soon as they engage, it is claimed by that team and they either beat it, or die and others can try. It is nice to be all sharing and such with letting others get loot/xp/quest rewards for everything else... why not have just a little bit of competition in the game...?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphic

What if .....What about .. What about ... all nonsense hypotheticals...

---

It is not that complicated when you see the corpse of the early puller on the ground. The identify will be clear to everyone at the hunt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphic

Also, as has happened, auto run, look away for 2 mins, and run straight into a hunt mob. Players go all smack happy instead of letting the person go splat or auto run there merry way till it resets. Are you going to harrass, name and shame the one on auto run or the ones who went all red line and attacked?

---

More nonsense hypotheticals. Accidents happen. And beside if folks in the LS are properly disciplined and know to hold until pull time, and accidental pull by something will be automatically reset anyways no one needs to panic, and no name calling or harassment will ever follow. It is the repeat offender that deliberately trolls and disrupts the play of everyone else that will get blacklisted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphic

Not to mention your previous posts are prmoting going against the EULA by harrasing and disrupting others gameplay ...

---

Blacklisting trouble makers, be it spammers, gil sellers, or early pullers is certainly not against the EULA. As collective we have the right blacklist those who are harassing the vast majority of players. Identifying them and blacklisting them is not against anything the EULA. None the verbal harassment needs to happen, just simply identify and blacklist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

...The problem is you think players are states. ...
Players are GUESTS. Guests have no authority to make rules in someone else's home.

---

Players are not states, and I've never said that. The thing is neither is the legal system or the U.S. government top down one-way as you tried to present, nor is the relationship between SE and the playerbase.

And we are not guests and for player that live the game probably would claim this is there home not to mention the houses they have in game. SE does have police powers and is final arbiter but they will adjust rules depending on feedback, just like they instituted the withdrawal penalty, or adjust content difficulty. And even if we are guest, guests do get to make rules, the host should actually try to accomodate the guest as much as possible. You go to a restaurant and you provide the the rule that you are allergic to shellfish related stuff, they will do their best not serve you stuff that sends you the hospital, nor would your friends hosting a dinner party. And people that don't agree to saying grace before dinner don't have to either. Rules are arbitrary unless they are grounded in being solutions to practical matters, and properly negotiated between competing interests.

Alternatively, SE should just turn Hunts into Treasure Hunt type mobs. You accept quest from the Hunting Scholar, you form a party with people who also have the quest, go to the designated spot, pop mob, beat it, get seals.. wait another 4 or something hours for the quest to become active again. For S ranks, though, the party leaders will need to form an alliance, accept the quest, do the required actions to pop their mob (spawns in random location marked on your map, so that two S rank mobs don't appear in the same spot in case another alliance is doing the quest. Required actions will be less restrictive than the current spawning mechanics) and then fight. The S rank quest will become available after 32 or something hours.

So it's the claim system similar to FFXI, but with 99% of the drama gone AND still open world.

so ignore them and move on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

What I think would be great...for Hunts only, have a claim system like the old FFXI (I know this isn't FFXI so no need to tell me). Those who find a hunt, as soon as they engage, it is claimed by that team and they either beat it, or die and others can try. It is nice to be all sharing and such with letting others get loot/xp/quest rewards for everything else... why not have just a little bit of competition in the game...?

---

I can't agree with this enough and I'm glad someone finally said it. This notion that everyone deserves something... I just don't get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Alternatively, SE should just turn Hunts into Treasure Hunt type mobs. You accept quest from the Hunting Scholar, you form a party with people who also have the quest, go to the designated spot, pop mob, beat it, get seals.. wait another 4 or something hours for the quest to become active again. For S ranks, though, the party leaders will need to form an alliance, accept the quest, do the required actions to pop their mob (spawns in random location marked on your map, so that two S rank mobs don't appear in the same spot in case another alliance is doing the quest. Required actions will be less restrictive than the current spawning mechanics) and then fight. The S rank quest will become available after 32 or something hours.

---

This was honestly how I envisioned hunts to be when they were first announced. What the actual hunts became were the zergfests we have today, and are currently complaining about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

And beside if folks in the LS are properly disciplined and know to hold until pull time

---

Not everyone is in one LS. Actually... it's ok for someone in NO LS to still do hunts. Some people... many people I would say, just do hunts when they come up and go on about their day.

So whatever discipline YOU have in YOUR LS really does not apply.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Blacklisting trouble makers, be it spammers, gil sellers, or early pullers is certainly not against the EULA. As collective we have the right blacklist those who are harassing the vast majority of players. Identifying them and blacklisting them is not against anything the EULA. None the verbal harassment needs to happen, just simply identify and blacklist.

---

The actual blacklisting is fine. It is the witch hunt method of inciting people to blacklist them that is the problem. How can you not see this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cadmar

.. It is the witch hunt method of inciting people to blacklist them that is the problem. ...

---

It is not a witch hunt when you get the corpse of the early puller lying there on the ground. Funny thing is to date I've not had to black list anyone at hunts. Usually when everyone see their dead corpse the early pulling troll is usually too ashamed to show their face around the hunts. But if they insist and try it on subsequent elites, it is not witch hunt for everyone to black list the troll early puller nor is it incitement to have everyone on multiple LS blacklist them and remove them from the LS. It is our only power to defend the large number of player from their trolling for lulz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

It is not that complicated when you see the corpse of the early puller on the ground. The identify will be clear to everyone at the hunt.

---

Good picking and choosing there.

You talk a lot without saying anything. Yes we are guests, SE have the right that we agree to terminate anyones account for any or no reasons, also they own all properties and rights, we do not own a single thing. Not even the client as you pay for the licence to use it in a method you agree to with clicking accept to the EULA and/or ToS.

The account and everything in it belongs to SE.

None of those examples where hypothetical, Ive seen em all happen. Even when they have waited 10 mins+ someone comes later and rages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyarukoW

It is not a witch hunt when you get the corpse of the early puller lying there on the ground. Funny thing is to date I've not had to black list anyone at hunts. snip

---

in an earlier post you literally said "chase them off the server". thats the part where you went too far and it becomes harassment. how you dont see that saying in shout "hey, this person early pulled, everyone blacklist,kick from ls and make sure they are unable to hunt" is against the very rules you agree to while playing this game just shows how blind to some things you are.
and just to throw this out there, you say to black list the early puller. what if the "puller" was a fresh player that had no idea what was going on? you have now stunted any kind of growth that this person could have done on the server if all the people at that hunt bl him. good job.

Quote:

---

in an earlier post you literally said "chase them off the server".

---

There's a fine line between people getting chased away by harassment vs. choosing to leave because they've crapped in their bath water. I'm familiar with the situation being referenced here, and it seems to be the latter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thayos

There's a fine line between people getting chased away by harassment vs. choosing to leave because they've crapped in their bath water. I'm familiar with the situation being referenced here, and it seems to be the latter.

---

the way it was being said was much closer to the former. saying in shout to black list and then chase off the server is pretty targeted.

Quote:

---

saying in shout to black list and then chase off the server is pretty targeted.

---

In this case, the people were caught bragging about their trolling efforts in the wrong chat channel... you can't realistically expect people to let that slide. At that point, people are simply reacting to being trolled, and the trolls couldn't take the heat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lycelle

Unless of course your argument is pointing in a different direction then I will pull my statement entirely and apologize.

---

I give it a good 60 seconds before pulling. That way, anyone who was actively searching for the mob in this zone or another zone (since we get overlapped windows) has had a chance to get there, and THOSE are the people who are making hunts actually happen in the first place.

Beyond that, if you didn't make it in time, it's no one's fault but your own and I'm not going to feel bad for you.

This is why I want hunt mob HP to scale so it takes ~2 mins to bring down a mob no matter the number of people. 2 minutes is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things, but it'll allow people who were paying attention to get there and get credit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cadmar

Newsflash. There is no such thing as an early pull. It is a made-up thought. A whimsical idea. A pretentious charade. It is a figment of the imagination.

---

I define it as when the mob is pulled before the people who were hunting for the mob in that zone or for an overlapping mob in another zone are able to get there in time.

If those people get screwed over, they quit trying to look for mobs and wind up camping the aetheryte like everyone else.

Then, we wind up in the situation mentioned earlier where the hunt mob spawns and no one ever finds it because everyone just camps the aetheryte. :P

I find it funny that in a number of other threads people have told me that it's an MMO, you're supposed to play together with and help others. When it comes to hunts some of those same people are now basically saying screw everyone else, I will take my reward and not waste a second and the rest of the server be damned.

This is a bad example, but an example none the less.

You are sleeping in your house. A robber breaks into your house and tries to steal from you. You catch them in the act and shoot & or stab them. They then flee the area, wounded and hurt. The person was in the wrong to steal from you, and you were defending your property/goods. But they now have the right to sue you.

See here. - http://www.cbsnews.com/news/burglar-...returned-fire/

Now putting this in XIV Terms. Yes. It is wrong for someone to run up to a mob and "troll" they reset the mob, facepull, etc etc. They are now "firing" the first shot. The next step is your party or whoever you're with mind you then steps in and claims the mob after the said troller dies from the engagement. You being yourself and the party you are with then proceed to go and do the following.

Troll: Huehuehuehue *Pulls mob, dies*
You: *Shouts* Hey Leon pulled the mob early.<---This is okay to do. Everyone blacklist him and make sure to not let him into your Hunt Linkshells. <-This. Right here, is where you mess up. Now it turns into a case of harassment. Because you are now going out of your way to make SURE they do not get to enjoy the game.

Sure, what they did was "wrong" to begin with, but they died as a resulted consequence and you get a laugh out of it. The deed is done, the troll is dead and you are all witness to it. However. The moment you start shouting for that person to be blacklisted/witch hunted by the server is the moment you are stepping into the same field of harassment as they are. Granted it's different terms, but it IS a form of harassment via public slandering/shaming. This type of act has a long and drawn out effect which in turn will cause a lot of drama for that person to deal with because you started it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynthis

I find it funny that in a number of other threads people have told me that it's an MMO, you're supposed to play together with and help others. When it comes to hunts some of those same people are now basically saying screw everyone else, I will take my reward and not waste a second and the rest of the server be damned.

---

well said ;)

well really nothing forces them to wait for anyone, moral differes from people to people, we dont all have the same moral about this.

People want what they want and generally cant see what what they want may not be what others want....and when it comes to hunt what all want is to get the reward...and to get it you needt o be there and make sure you have the less people possible present ...., nothing immoralt, nothing wrong or what not.

Just beacuse you see as wrong, doesnt make it so. For some beating their wife is perfectly ok, for others is not..who says is more right or wrong, all you can do is accept or not and associate with such behaviour or not. pretty simple in my eyes.

Mei

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Just beacuse you see as wrong, doesnt make it so. For some beating their wife is perfectly ok, for others is not..

Mei

---

Just ganna sit here to see how much attention that little segment gets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

well really nothing forces them to wait for anyone, moral differes from people to people, we dont all have the same moral about this.

---

Sure but even if you have different values, you have to face the consequence of this difference nonetheless.
You think you (and everybody) are entitled to pull early. Then you shouldn't feel slighted when someone tells everybody that you did pull early because you did. People with the same view will ignore the shout, the others may banlist you.
You can't expect the "you have to respect my moral differences" to protect you, especially when these differences are affecting others.

So lets do an experiment, I will "early pull" every hunt I can and you can report me for that. At the same time you publicly shame me in shout and I will report you for that. At the end of the day lets see who SE deside to give a warning or temporary ban.

Out of ALL the problems mentioned, it's really the aetheryte leeches that bother me the most. So very lazy.....
The LEAST SE could do is not penalize active hunters. That borders on farce.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Just beacuse you see as wrong, doesnt make it so. For some beating their wife is perfectly ok, for others is not..who says is more right or wrong, all you can do is accept or not and associate with such behaviour or not. pretty simple in my eyes.

Mei

---

While, I am hoping this is a post meant to 'incite' the difference here is this:

SE makes the FFXIV 'laws' and by SE's 'laws' if you will, 'early pulling' in and of it's self doesn't actually break any laws. Taunting other players/harassing other players however (whether you be the puller or the people angry about the pull), IS against the FFXIV 'laws' if you will. So really even if you think it's 'wrong' to early pull (or if you think it's right for the matter), it's a moote point. According to the folk who make the rules, it's totally aokay to pull a Hunt mob when you see it/think you can handle it. No one who pulls based on this 'I saw it, and thought me/my team could handle it' will get in trouble for pulling, no matter how much ruckus those who feel left out cause. Now if that SAME person runs in taunting 'hey losers, I'm gonna get full credit and you can't stop me'...and esp if they keep doing it over and over on different mobs...then yes, they will get in trouble...but, and here's the key point. NOT for 'early pulling, but for being abusive and for harassing others/affecting others gameplay. Why? Because their intent isn't to play the game/hunt...it's to purposefully inconvience and taunt others.

Now in our world, at least in the country I live in, if you beat your wife, you most assuredly are breaking the law. And you will be punished. You can think it's 'right' (lol) all you want, but the law of the land says 'yeah no, you can't do that'.

Also, I'd avoid comparing pulling a pixelated bunny 'early' forcing a bit of nerd rage in a pretend video game world, to the beating of a real human being and ever imply those two things hold equal morality. Because, well wow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mercutial

Out of ALL the problems mentioned, it's really the aetheryte leeches that bother me the most. So very lazy.....
The LEAST SE could do is not penalize active hunters. That borders on farce.

---

Ironically, do you know how you discourage people from sitting at the aytherites on their butts waiting for the call outs?


You PULL as soon as enough people who could logically take down the mark arrive....and/or you only share the intell within your close groups (ie party/FC/trusted ls source).

If mobs were pulled and killed more or less on sight/when enough people show up to kill them, then guess what, people couldn't effectively leech anymore by hanging out at the Aytherite.

So if you want to take the 'everyone deserves a shot' approach, that's totally fine.
But just like 'everyone' includes rude people who might not wait to pull...it also includes rude people not willing to actively help look.

Everyone means everyone. The good, the bad, the ugly. If you don't want to feed the early pullers or the aytherite campers, then you either need to pull far earlier than you likely are as a group or you need to stop sharing intell with outsiders (whoever the 'outsiders' might be to you). If you want the 'everybody gets a shot' to continue, then you need to accept, people are doing this content because they see it as the 'easy way' and it attracts a lot of 'lazy'. And you will be feeding the 'lazy' as well until they get what they want and no longer even wish to wait at the camps for the callouts.


While I personally feel it's noble and all to wait for others, I also believe it's not necessary beyond 'welp we waited 2 mins and have more than enough ppl here'/ 'we have enough here pull'.
-And no, I never pulled a mob.
-And yes, I actually will on my server in /sh call out what I see ...even if get this, I spot it but for whatever reason (like doing a fate/leve/in a queue etc), cannot actually participate in the battle. My point, just because I have no problem with 'early pulls' doesn't mean I support greedy play perse...I'll TELL you where a mob is if I see it, even if I can't get credit for it for whatever reason...just don't scream at each other over it 10 mins later...

Seriously, I don't care that people want to 'spread the wealth' but, I just want the hate /sh spams to stop. It really is unpleasant, and childish.