Things that need to change for the better

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Uhm...I didn't name call at all? You need to look up the definition of "name calling." A name is not the same as an adverb or a verb. A name is an adjective.

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A name is a noun, Mr. English Teacher. (<---see, that's a name)

community. add something like world chat. still feels empty.

The dungeon isn't broken. It was a breath of fresh air, as is the MP costs to cure and the revamped enmity system.
I'm ready and eager now for the next one. I hope it's even harder.

Here's a little story for you. Months ago when my linkshell mates and I cared about the original 5 Notorious Monsters, I once went to my kitchen for a glass of milk WHILE tanking Uraeus. I returned about a minute and a half later and still had hate... as I expected.
AFK tanking... THAT is a broken system.

The new system simply requires players to think. It also should encourage you to take a long and fresh look at your list of abilities. Many that were completely pointless before 1.18 you'll now find to be invaluable. Rethink your action bar.
Yoshi P has spoken, as has the Final Fantasy community. This MMO is no longer going to be one that can be played on auto pilot, AFK or while watching youtube videos on 3/4th your screen.

The AoE of Deepvoid Slave is both manageable and avoidable. If something is not working for you greet your next run with a fresh mindset and try something different. Keep at it and you'll eventually come to see how silly this thread looks.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

yeah the MP management thing is great, but they over did it just a little bit. I've found ways to work around it, but it is even more stressful than XI was >.>

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And it isn't fun... and at the end of the day, I play games to have fun, not to stress out.

I was having some fun with it. On my THM LOL. Single target curing, and mp management, getting used to it. but...when i was playing on both conj and thm, to me i'd lower mp cost by 10-20 mp on some, and lower raise/resurrect cost by 40 or so mp since its given at such a low level when most people don't have a phys level thats high. This may be in prep of the 1.19 abolisment of phys level where stats are more potent then, so it will only be broken for months haha.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

2) Raises need to be on separate timers. What's the point of having 4 different types of raises, as a CON, if we can only use 2?

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I, too, would like for this sort of thing to change. No two things should share the same timer. There are better ways which I thought are obvious enough to delay spamming of something. This goes for all the gatherer related things, too.

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4) Gear damage from death needs to be abolished or reduced. Every dungeon run, I come out with at least 3 pieces of broken gear. This is unacceptable considering people want close to 10k to repair something...

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I don't think 30k is that big a deal, personally. People are genuinely having money thrown at them. Realistically, 10k is perhaps overpriced considering the low cost of dark matter from an NPC, but when gilsinks are brought into the game in 1.19 and beyond, perhaps the cost will go down a little.

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5) the r45 dungeon needs a slight nerf. "CRY MOAR!" no seriously, the ogre opens up with AoE spam and the mages are usually dead in the first 30 seconds of the fight which leads to #6. Also, fix it so that if you wipe and have to return, that the mobs don't pop until you're team is inside the room. It is VERY hard to recover from a wipe on that fight as you will probably wipe again before your team is back into the fight (Stupid ghosts..)

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If it's difficult to beat it, it's what the people have been craving for over the past months. I've been seeing endless streams of "everything is easy" so if there is something out there that people are struggling with (but can still beat!) then it's definitely a good thing. Perhaps when more raids are supplied then they can be of a slightly easier difficulty, but for now, keep the super-hard "endgame" (well, at the moment it is) bit in there. Perhaps have your mages move further back when the AOE spams come in if you can predict them? I'm not sure - I've not played a raid yet. :S

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6) Enmity needs to be fixed. The current system is severely flawed. A GLA used 3 vokes and a couple of WS on a mob, I cure 3'd once...mob turned around and bam, 1 shot.

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Haven't played that high, but I will say that at rank 20-odd, the emnity balancing hasn't been a real problem for me as a tank. If only I was a little better at targetting I'd probably be even better at tanking. =x Ha.

I just have to say that I don't care if the dungeon is uber hard or whatever, so I will disagree with the OP on that point.

Well I went through again last night and as I feared it was mostly about shifting and positioning correctly. In all fairness though it is not ALL about that. We failed again with the 45 raid but we had a decent run of it and were far more consistant with it this time around. We were getting to the first boss fairly easily but we could not keep things going because we just did not have the uber power shooting of Archers (only 1 Archer) or the huge healing of Conj (1 Conj 1 Thaum). Sacrifice is just a "don't" in that fight (unless you happen to be the tank :cool:). So I, as the Thaum, was forced to use less effective healing Cures. It was all good though we still did nicely but given the amount of close range people we had in party we will probably have to go with Disabling pots and hope we can bang away on him till he drops from a distance. I only have 8 levels for my Conj to be 48 and a factor as a healer with more MP to boot. So I think we will have this thing licked soon enough.

My overall impressions though are that this initial boss fight in the 45 raid is too heavily favored toward ranged attackers. Sure it can be done with front line DD but requires far more healers to do it due to AoE spamming of close range heavy damage abilities. I am not looking for a change to the fight as it would negate the work we have done so far in figuring out how we are going to do it. I am however a little disappointed that given the huge anti-Archer sentiment that was floating around before the patch along with the anti-Thaumaturge sentiment that they would have made the front line DD more effective...not introduce a raid that makes them a liability. I think they did a good job "fleshing out" the mage classes more but they really still need to work with the front line classes a bit to make them a better fit so an "optimum" party situation is less frequent and the DD classes are far more interchangable. Sure all of the DD classes should bring something different to the table but you should not dread having one and cheer about having another.

Something else I want to touch on is the inflexible nature of the people playing mages. I do not want to blast mages but the ones worried about MP and hate are sticking too firmly to the idea that only the mage classes have what they are looking for. Look around in the DoW stuff too. You might find something worthwhile. I am still play testing it (so far with pretty good success) but "Out of Sight" (reduce enmity by 10 for actions) as an Archer passive ability was a nice fit last night and it crosses over to any class. My point being, stop thinking that only YOUR class has what you need. The tanks are looking around for more ways to hold hate so you should be looking around for ways to alleviate hate.

Dubont..

me and my LS beat darkhold a few times yesterday.... i was main healer on conj... after ogre died i had 800+ mp left.. Tranquility not used...

killed gargoyle.... i had 600+ mp left.. tranquility still not used...

oh and i pulled no hate throughout the whole raid..


what is ur malfunction?

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Originally Posted by Thanos

Dubont..

me and my LS beat darkhold a few times yesterday.... i was main healer on conj... after ogre died i had 800+ mp left.. Tranquility not used...

killed gargoyle.... i had 600+ mp left.. tranquility still not used...

oh and i pulled no hate throughout the whole raid..


what is ur malfunction?

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inb4 he claims you are cheating and not doing it legit cuz hes the best and elite and no one can tell him otherwise

I think this thread needs to die already. People have proven Dubont's points invalid over and over and over again. He's just trolling now.

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Originally Posted by Katase

@Dubont, better stop posting on your thread and start playing the game, and maybe you will find a way to pass the ogre...
playing your class, instead of religiously defending your own thread, will help you understand your class better and help you conserve mp where needed

Yesterday,while we were doign a chestrun, we took 2 of your LS buddies through the dungeons all the way up to the REAL boss (just to show them the cutscene) They should have enough info on how to get through it.

STOP POSTING AND PLAY MORE!!!

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I play enough, tyvm. We actually did 2 runs last night. 1 of them had a guy that you took through. Would have beaten it...the ogre I mean...no one had died..35mins left...ogre was about 20% till dead...and both of our archers d/cd...*sigh*

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Originally Posted by Thanos

Dubont..

me and my LS beat darkhold a few times yesterday.... i was main healer on conj... after ogre died i had 800+ mp left.. Tranquility not used...

killed gargoyle.... i had 600+ mp left.. tranquility still not used...

oh and i pulled no hate throughout the whole raid..


what is ur malfunction?

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And? MP costs are still too high (higher than any other game) and chances are, they will get lowered. Did a run last night and had more than 1 CON (finally) and hate management wasn't bad at all because we split up the curing to even out hate. I still believe that Enmity needs an adjustment.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

I think this thread needs to die already. People have proven Dubont's points invalid over and over and over again. He's just trolling now.

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again you need to read some of my recent posts as YOU are the one trolling at this point. The only point that has been proven invalid is #5. The rest are still very valid.

Listen troll

MP cost is higher yes but its manageable so wtf are u complaining about? as long as u are a good mage and not the noob that you are the cost of MP should not effect your gameplay. Doesnt effect mine whatsoever

So as someone said maybe you should spend more time playing the game instead of defending your invalid points

/end thread

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Originally Posted by Dubont

again you need to read some of my recent posts as YOU are the one trolling at this point. The only point that has been proven invalid is #5. The rest are still very valid.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

The update was awesome, but it had some severe bad sides and a few other things that need tweaking.

1) Cure MP costs. They are much too high and before anyone says "But 11's were high!" yeah, but a cure 3 wasn't 135MP

2) Raises need to be on separate timers. What's the point of having 4 different types of raises, as a CON, if we can only use 2?

3) Stats need enhancing. Aside from VIT and MND, they do next to nothing.

4) Gear damage from death needs to be abolished or reduced. Every dungeon run, I come out with at least 3 pieces of broken gear. This is unacceptable considering people want close to 10k to repair something...

5) the r45 dungeon needs a slight nerf. "CRY MOAR!" no seriously, the ogre opens up with AoE spam and the mages are usually dead in the first 30 seconds of the fight which leads to #6. Also, fix it so that if you wipe and have to return, that the mobs don't pop until you're team is inside the room. It is VERY hard to recover from a wipe on that fight as you will probably wipe again before your team is back into the fight (Stupid ghosts..)

6) Enmity needs to be fixed. The current system is severely flawed. A GLA used 3 vokes and a couple of WS on a mob, I cure 3'd once...mob turned around and bam, 1 shot.

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1: MP costs are easily manageable. Learn to conserve MP correctly and you shouldn't have a problem.

2: Why? Raise takes up only 2 action points, low enough for everyone in your party to have it equipped and help raise in the event of a massive near-wipe. Why would you want to blow all of your mp on raising, you'd lose more time waiting to regain mp.

3: It's been said over, and over and over again, patch 1.19 is addressing this.

4: The game needs a death penalty. The current one works perfectly fine (only 5% dura lost on "Return") and doubles as an effective gil sink. Learn to play and stop dying.

5: Don't think I have to repeat everything that was said in this thread already.

6: Enmity is fine. It uses completely different algorithms than before. Learn to adapt to them and let go of what you used to know.

So yea, I'd say it's you that's just trolling, as these points have been made over, and over, and over again.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

I think this thread needs to die already. People have proven Dubont's points invalid over and over and over again. He's just trolling now.

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everyone needs to learn to use the report thread button and keep pointing out hes trolling

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

everyone needs to learn to use the report thread button and keep pointing out hes trolling

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I don't think he needs to be reported to be honest. Things like personal attacks that are way uncalled for would be a better reason to report someone (threats, harassment, that sort of thing.)

Point is, it's in his best interest to let this thread die. No matter how good of a player people thought he was in previous games, this thread alone will likely label him as an incompetent whiner that's unable to adapt to a changing game.

Just let it die already.

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Originally Posted by Thanos

Listen troll

MP cost is higher yes but its manageable so wtf are u complaining about? as long as u are a good mage and not the noob that you are the cost of MP should not effect your gameplay. Doesnt effect mine whatsoever

So as someone said maybe you should spend more time playing the game instead of defending your invalid points

/end thread

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That's fine lol you can call me a noob all you want just because I'm not an amazing healer, but the fact is that the MP costs will MOST LIKELY be changed and for that, I'm happy =) Also, all of my points, aside from #5, are still valid at this point. Go "troll" somewhere else =)

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

1: MP costs are easily manageable. Learn to conserve MP correctly and you shouldn't have a problem.

2: Why? Raise takes up only 2 action points, low enough for everyone in your party to have it equipped and help raise in the event of a massive near-wipe. Why would you want to blow all of your mp on raising, you'd lose more time waiting to regain mp.

3: It's been said over, and over and over again, patch 1.19 is addressing this.

4: The game needs a death penalty. The current one works perfectly fine (only 5% dura lost on "Return") and doubles as an effective gil sink. Learn to play and stop dying.

5: Don't think I have to repeat everything that was said in this thread already.

6: Enmity is fine. It uses completely different algorithms than before. Learn to adapt to them and let go of what you used to know.

So yea, I'd say it's you that's just trolling, as these points have been made over, and over, and over again.

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lol I'm not trolling what-so-ever. Like I said, read my recent posts instead of just reading the OP and QQing all over the place.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

I don't think he needs to be reported to be honest. Things like personal attacks that are way uncalled for would be a better reason to report someone (threats, harassment, that sort of thing.)

Point is, it's in his best interest to let this thread die. No matter how good of a player people thought he was in previous games, this thread alone will likely label him as an incompetent whiner that's unable to adapt to a changing game.

Just let it die already.

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actualy, personal attacks is all hes doing, go read most of his posts, he sits there calling people ignorant, childish, downright stupid
its all he knows how to do in every post he makes

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

actualy, personal attacks is all hes doing, go read most of his posts, he sits there calling people ignorant, childish, downright stupid
its all he knows how to do in every post he makes

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Wrong again as I have never directly called you anything. Try reading again. At any rate, I got my point across and even Yoshi-P believes that some of the changes were a bit overboard so my work here is done =)

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Wrong again as I have never directly called you anything. Try reading again. At any rate, I got my point across and even Yoshi-P believes that some of the changes were a bit overboard so my work here is done =)

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go read your own posts, youve called me several names
i cant believe theyve banned belgiun, and gifthorse(wish theyd ban his new account too) but not you yet

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

go read your own posts, youve called me several names
i cant believe theyve banned belgiun, and gifthorse(wish theyd ban his new account too) but not you yet

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why would they ban me when I haven't done anything wrong, aside from stating my opinions on what needs to be changed? I guess this community just can't handle the fact that the game is nowhere near perfect. And no, I haven't directly called you anything. Go read it again.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

actualy, personal attacks is all hes doing, go read most of his posts, he sits there calling people ignorant, childish, downright stupid
its all he knows how to do in every post he makes

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Yea I agree, despite him constantly saying "read the whole thread" most of his recent posts are personal attacks (I have no desire to read 35 pages of flaming anyways lol.) But I'm thinking more like racial or sexual harassment, that would constitute a report in my book.

Either way, I'm breaking my own rule here by still replying to this thread once again. We're just feeding him and the best thing to do now is to turn a deaf ear. If he continues to keep this thread on the top page by talking to himself then there's clearly other issues that can only be resolved through therapy and/or medication.

I'll try and keep this my last post here lol..

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Originally Posted by Dubont

try reading some of my recent posts instead of ignoring everything other than the OP



solod/duod blm to 75 and played FFXI for 7 years. Played WoW for 3 months, solod 3 classes to 70, each took 2 weeks. PWI, solod Cleric and Archer to max level and played for 2 years. Played numerous other MMOs for years. I think I'm fine at MMOs, this game just has a lot of problems.

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I think the point people are trying to make Dubont is this game isn't every going to go in the direction you want it to so you should honestly consider playing a game that does suit your interests better instead of making posts like this on the forums where you are in the minority. Again I respect you opinion but I don't care much for the ideas because I feel the game is going in the perfect direction and love every aspect of 1.18 and hope the future changes keep going in this direction. You care about the game and enjoy it to some extent otherwise you wouldn't say it needs changes but those changes do cater to what you would like to see and not what the majority of the people would like to see.

On the other hand other people though would rather get a cheap form of attention by logging onto these forums and not show who their character is because they likely played the first month and quit but still love to get on to flame and troll people all day long. They do not care what happens to the game they just think of things to say that would tick off the people who actually care about the game.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

That's fine lol you can call me a noob all you want just because I'm not an amazing healer, but the fact is that the MP costs will MOST LIKELY be changed and for that, I'm happy =) Also, all of my points, aside from #5, are still valid at this point. Go "troll" somewhere else =)



lol I'm not trolling what-so-ever. Like I said, read my recent posts instead of just reading the OP and QQing all over the place.

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ok so ur not a amazing healer.. so until u learn how to heal u have no right even saying that MP cost is too high cause for us that knows how to heal it really doesnt bother us.

u want it in ezmode so you can half ass heal cause ur not good at it?

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Uhm...I didn't name call at all? You need to look up the definition of "name calling." A name is not the same as an adverb or a verb. A name is an adjective.

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yea...a name is actually a proper noun.

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Originally Posted by Thanos

ok so ur not a amazing healer.. so until u learn how to heal u have no right even saying that MP cost is too high cause for us that knows how to heal it really doesnt bother us.

u want it in ezmode so you can half ass heal cause ur not good at it?

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Nowhere in this entire thread did I say that I wanted ezmode. Get out of that elitist attitude, please, and see what I'm trying to say. The mp costs in this game are much higher than any other game. Does this mean, by your logic, that every other game is easy mode? Apparently...

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Originally Posted by Cursive

yea...a name is actually a proper noun.

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not the type of name that was referred to. The name used in "name calling" is an adjective, not a proper noun. At least, I'm fairly sure it is. I could be wrong.

Depends on whether you say:

"You are stupid" vs "You are a stupidhead"

Where are the forum grammar police from the localization thread. This debate must be solved!! :D

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Originally Posted by Dubont

there were a lot of things that were announced before the battle changes and many of them have not come to pass, so what is your point? My point still remains that it would have been a smart decision, on SE's part, to fix the stats with or before the battle changes.

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Since the battle changes are not finished, SE will be fixing the stats with the battle changes, as you seem to want here. It's not "1 patch = battle changes" it's "several patches = battle changes".

The only thing I can agree with is the raise timer and the stats.

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Originally Posted by Hhaven

The only thing I can agree with is the raise timer and the stats.

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thank you. At least you agree with something.

here's how you fix your problem- 1 Don't die 2 if your gear are broken that''s cuz u die- 3 play better??
avoid the aoe maybe?? Stats effect crafting and mining- and probably helps battle class also... you probably need to add 100 point to see a difference- I forgot to mention- use raise 2 rebirth and raise resurrect. I don't see why your saying there's only 2 raises...

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Originally Posted by Gukswar

here's how you fix your problem- 1 Don't die 2 if your gear are broken that''s cuz u die- 3 play better??
avoid the aoe maybe?? Stats effect crafting and mining- and probably helps battle class also... you probably need to add 100 point to see a difference- I forgot to mention- use raise 2 rebirth and raise resurrect. I don't see why your saying there's only 2 raises...

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there are only 2 raises because raise 1, raise 2 and resurrect are all on the same timer. Rebirth is the only one that doesn't share a timer with the others. As far as "don't die," Thank you Cpt. Obvious, but you can't just simply "not die." Death happens =)

Well then i guess i can call you brainless... besides... I don't see the point of getting more then 2 raises.. unless of course your tank isn't tanking and your healer isn't healing... ... there's 8 players 8 x 2 = 16 that's 16 raises for you? since you complain about raise have everyone play conjurer!!!!

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Originally Posted by Gukswar

Well then i guess i can call you brainless... besides... I don't see the point of getting more then 2 raises.. unless of course your tank isn't tanking and your healer isn't healing... ... there's 8 players 8 x 2 = 16 that's 16 raises for you? since you complain about raise have everyone play conjurer!!!!

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you are obviously terrible at math because ONLY CON can use more than 1 raise at a time. If you have 2 CON, that's 4 raises, + the other 6 members which is +6 raises. That = 10 raises, not 16. Cons have the ability to use 4 raises, why can't we have them? Also, don't call me brainless for pointing out a very obvious problem. At least make it so that Raise and Resurrect are not on the same timer. That's just ridiculous. As far as me not needing more than 2 raises...partial wipes happen and at those times, I would like to be able to raise more than 2 people, wait 5 mins, raise 1 person, wait 5mins, raise 1 person. Lastly, asking people to level classes that they don't want to is not something that I do. To ask everyone to level con just for raise is a little silly, especially for melee classes. Yes, it makes sense, yes it is easy to do and yes, most people already have CON at 14, BUT that doesn't change the fact that a MRD has to equip raise just because SE refuses to let the mages use everything at their disposal.

I dunno bout how often your team dies.. but u can use rebirth multiple times in a dungeon run.. I almost never use raiseII and only use rebirth when ppl die

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Originally Posted by Thanos

I dunno bout how often your team dies.. but u can use rebirth multiple times in a dungeon run.. I almost never use raiseII and only use rebirth when ppl die

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you can use rebirth between 3-4 times in 1 hour by using chainspell, I know this, but you can't use it 4 times in 30 minutes.

thats all u should need really

During a run with my LS up to the last boss we usually only have 2 deaths and one of those would be by complete accident if it were to happen. While actually fighting the last boss is a bit different because of learning the fight through progression. We may see several deaths but then again everyone in the party has atleast R1 so getting people up has yet to be a problem for us. By the way requiring people to use Vent while doing these (even if they don't have a mic) ups your chances of not dying drastically.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

you can use rebirth between 3-4 times in 1 hour by using chainspell, I know this, but you can't use it 4 times in 30 minutes.

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aaa Your finally Thinking brainless boy- well in that case let me teach you something smarter- if you have 8 players thats 8 conjurer- 8 rebirth 8 raise 2 that's more then enough raise for you.. jeez.. how much more do u want you brainless boy.
To correct you inside the dungeon I can rebirth more then 10 time's brainless boy. But If i had to cast more then 2 rebirth on YOUR TEAM... there's a problem (YOUR TEAM) not the game system... Me bymyself I can rebirth 10 times... if your team can't figure it out? well in that case it's not the system it's your brainless head of yours... when you actually think with your brain I'll stop calling you that... till then keep thinking and maybe the dungeon's will become more clear to you... If you can't figure out how to beat this dungeon then your very hmm what's the word for it dumb? stupid? idiotic? but nah I won't call you that because your just brainless... SOOOO ANYWAY your complaint about raises doesn't work... any other complaint?

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

imo you're point is not 100% valid thou. They introduce MP management and is still in work of progress, they will or might change it in future. Is a big patch, but is not yet done. Overall i'm happy with the change, just hoping it does not go and dumb down being ez mode again ~_~

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I wasn't aware that MP management meant massively expensive cure spells. I must've missed that memo. In case you didn't notice, Cure and Sacrifice are the ONLY spells affected. I can spam fire, lightning, stone, water and scourge until my fingers go numb with the effort. This is NOT how you do MP management. This was PURELY an attempt to curb people using heals on non-mage classes while simultaneously weakening CON's position as a healer.

I get that they're planning to add the White Mage job, really I do. I get that they want us to be more careful with heals. Honest, I do understand that too! But making it impossible to do an effective job as a healer just means that teams will be forced to bring their own heals to a team. And no, spamming ethers is no option for any mage because they're just too darned weak.

Cure II heals 300 hp, roughly. For my mage, thats about 50% of my total. On a tank it barely nudges their meter. This isn't FFXI. We don't have Divine Seal to make it stronger. We don't have a Dark Staves or Cookies for MP regen. We don't even get rest! All we can do go passive (which you CANNOT do in combat) and wait until your MP slowly trickles back or rely on your 10 minute cooldown ability.

If it's a work in progress, they probably should've made the MP changes after the framework was already in place.