Problem with toxic casual players on this forum

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Originally Posted by Router

What does this even mean? The only people who care about job viability ARE the hardcore players. Casuals aren't going to bat an eye if jobs are underperforming.

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Last expansion proves this. SMN was perfectly mediocre performance wise but was massively popular. Yet MNK and BLM continued to see lower player numbers.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

If the "hardcore" crowd ran the game everything would be locked behind the endgame and only a few jobs would be viable.

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If we got down to it... I would argue that few casual and hardcore players are game designers, so with this in mind, I wouldn't really trust either side of the coin to design or even be part responsible for the design or direction of a video game lol.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

I feel like since DT released there has been a huge problem on this forum of toxic casual players. The casual playerbase in this game tends to want the whole game catered to them and cause a fuss when they perceive something in the game that isn't. Examples include complaining ultimate content is taking too much dev time and axolotl mount needs savage completion among others.

You don't see much dissenting opinion on here because you get shot down and dog piled by the toxic casual brigade who will not accept that the majority of the playerbase is currently having a blast playing DT. Most of the people I know enjoyed the story and the ones that didn't enjoy it were able to give nuanced reasons why and not just "WUK LAMAT BAD LOL"

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Can we just not say everything that is against our own opinion is toxic? I don't see how it's toxic to have an opinion, share that opinion, and back up others who share that opinion. By that logic, you'd be pretty toxic too. I'd like to believe you're not though.

If you liked Dawntrail, that's good for you. Other people do not share that opinion, so they disagree. They're not dogpiling you, your opinion's just not popular here. If you want to talk to other people who share your opinion, just continue talking to the people you know. In terms of anecdotal evidence, isn't it strange that you've accepted your FC's opinion as "majority" whereas the more populated forum where you've admitted that your opinion isn't popular is deemed "minority"? Not calling you out or anything, I'm just sharing my thoughts on your post.

As for "nuanced" reasons, just click on any of the threads you've jokingly reduced to "Wuk Lamat bad lol". Most of them will actually give you very nuanced reasons. For example, in my eyes, the thing that ruined the story is the crazy rushed pacing.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

This part of the playerbase doesn't understand that Stormblood was the best expansion content and job balance wise, and the constant complaining at the time that it was bad is what led to the jobs being the way they are now. Stormblood job design was on the whole pretty peak, but the large amount of players complaining about the skill gap meant we have the job gameplay we do now. They complained about fantastic content like eureka and bozja and that's what led to the relics becoming a shop purchase.

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I do agree with this part though, I do miss Stormblood's job design. Everything coming after it has been one flavor of disappointing next to another.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

If the "hardcore" crowd ran the game everything would be locked behind the endgame and only a few jobs would be viable.

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Though there are certainly loud, toxic individuals within the 'hardcore' crowd, I think this is a gross misrepresentation of the endgame community as a whole. Many of us actually want more midcore content and an actual progression of difficulty rather than just everything being hard all the time. All of us want all jobs to be viable all the time and don't enjoy being funneled into the 'meta jobs' for week 1. Ideally the people that you are talking about would like a nice, gradual ramp of difficulty where the game itself actually teaches you to become better and better as you approach endgame, and to be able to do that on a job that you like.

I really legitimately do miss the days when I could whole heartedly tell people of all skill levels 'play what you want, it's ultimately more about what you're comfortable with.' The changes of the game, ironically, have made clear choices on what's better and what's not. (Basically if everything's braindead and all jobs do the same thing, invariably there's going to be one that does it better.)

Though I can understand that you might have had some bad experiences with toxic 'hardcore players,' I ask that you refrain from dumping all of us in with them. They end up playing more in the 'beginner' brackets because we don't want them either >.>

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Originally Posted by yoshinoharu

Though there are certainly loud, toxic individuals within the 'hardcore' crowd, I think this is a gross misrepresentation of the endgame community as a whole. Many of us actually want more midcore content and an actual progression of difficulty rather than just everything being hard all the time. All of us want all jobs to be viable all the time and don't enjoy being funneled into the 'meta jobs' for week 1. Ideally the people that you are talking about would like a nice, gradual ramp of difficulty where the game itself actually teaches you to become better and better as you approach endgame, and to be able to do that on a job that you like.

I really legitimately do miss the days when I could whole heartedly tell people of all skill levels 'play what you want, it's ultimately more about what you're comfortable with.' The changes of the game, ironically, have made clear choices on what's better and what's not. (Basically if everything's braindead and all jobs do the same thing, invariably there's going to be one that does it better.)

Though I can understand that you might have had some bad experiences with toxic 'hardcore players,' I ask that you refrain from dumping all of us in with them. They end up playing more in the 'beginner' brackets because we don't want them either >.>

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My first "MMO" was a PvP one. I think that should say enough. I, like many others, were lured there by the concept.
Trust me, any alleged "gaslighting" here is child's play.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

*snip* toxic casual players *snip*

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I see we have a new buzzword being bantered around. :p

It shouldn't need to be said but it appears it does anyways. This game has a lot of individuals playing it. Each individual has their own opinion regarding issues regarding this expansion's storyline, voice acting, difficulty, and etc...

Just because some of these opinions differ from yours, doesn't mean they are toxic. Nor does it mean there is a Us vs Them dynamic going on where one side is right and the other side is wrong.

I get that you are passionate about your beliefs. That is a good thing. It means you care about Final Fantasy XIV and its future.

BUT

There is nothing to be gained from telling the developers to disregard all the viewpoints other than your own. Don't be a gatekeeper.

As my signature says...

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Wild Star is a perfect example of this. Good MMO, but focused so much on the hardcore, it couldn't keep a healthy playerbase.

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Yeah, when I saw the first trailer, I was so excited. Wild Star looked like it would be so much fun.

Then, new information started coming out and it totally turned me off. I knew from the get go it wasn't going to be my cup of tea. It wasn't much of surprise to hear of its quick demise.

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Originally Posted by Router

What does this even mean? The only people who care about job viability ARE the hardcore players. Casuals aren't going to bat an eye if jobs are underperforming.

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I think she means casual players will be driven out by a hardcore community which insisted only the top performing jobs be allowed in non-MSQ content. I'm glad that hasn't happened nor does it appear it will ever happen in this MMO.

As for your observation regarding casual players, you are spot on. A casual player is playing a job because they enjoy its gameplay, its appearance, or they have a concept of a character. Job performance as listed on a website from using a forbidden add-on isn't a consideration.

The story IS bad, and they literally butched every single scion so the can simp Poochie, and ask about Poochie when she's not on screen. While Lamat is not the main issue, and still they have problems in the quest part and how questing is done poorly, the dungeons, trials and raids have been great so far. While, i really don't think these new dungeons are "hard" i mean if you don't know how to use your job this far (IE healing/tanking) then is a "you" problem.

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Originally Posted by Darnuss

The story IS bad, and they literally butched every single scion so the can simp Poochie, and ask about Poochie when she's not on screen. While Lamat is not the main issue, and still they have problems in the quest part and how questing is done poorly, the dungeons, trials and raids have been great so far. While, i really don't think these new dungeons are "hard" i mean if you don't know how to use your job this far (IE healing/tanking) then is a "you" problem.

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- Speak to Wuk Lamat
- Speak to Wuk Lamat again
- Speak to Wuk Lamat yet again
- Speak to 3 villagers

I don't understand how the complainers were okay with Barbariccia, Golbez and Pandaemonium in EW, or Warrior of Light in ShB, but somehow to them this new content is too much.

If they make the controls more complicated and go back to heavensward there would be a mass exodus of players from the game. The current content balance has had better player retention then Stormblood, but I do feel like due to how they have to do difficulty in this game people are either having an engaging time the first few times they do something and then it gets boring, or it turns into cram school for hours getting frustrated at that one guy who didn't do a mechanic right because he is still learning something earlier in the fight than the rest of the group. I mean getting into the higher tier content feels like someone is applying for a job and often times that application needs to be made months in advance to even get in.