Patch 3.38 Discussion

Anyone else upset with the lack of addition of a 245 relic? Cause if we get a 250 in 3.4, then the primal will pretty much be dead on arrival compared to a weapon where you can pick your own stats. Also an upgrade would have been something to do waiting for 3.4.

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Originally Posted by Phafi

Anyone else upset with the lack of addition of a 245 relic? Cause if we get a 250 in 3.4, then the primal will pretty much be dead on arrival compared to a weapon where you can pick your own stats. Also an upgrade would have been something to do waiting for 3.4.

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Because that is meant to happen. 3.4 will give us a "short phase" relic from i240 to i250 so the Lore weapon now more accesible gets irrelevant so people farm the new tomestone for a i+250 new tomestone or the newer relic.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

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So you're open to the idea of having content DOA rather than spreading it out?

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Originally Posted by Phafi

So you're open to the idea of having content DOA rather than spreading it out?

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Content is already dead on arrival. And their relevance gets shorter and shorter. There is no reason to do absolutely anything anymore because:

1.- It takes too long.
2.- Its too grindy.
3.- Next patch will make shorter.

If content took less time to access, gear took less time to get and was much less grindy, people would replay the stuff much more, making content to last longer. That illusion of "long term goals keep content alive for longer" is that, an illusion. The easier things are to get, the more they are played and replayed, on top of that focus on making them fun (2.0 relic quest) and people would replay it much more, probably even do it for alt-classes, keeping content relevant for much longer.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

If content took less time to access, gear took less time to get and was much less grindy, people would replay the stuff much more, making content to last longer. That illusion of "long term goals keep content alive for longer" is that, an illusion. The easier things are to get, the more they are played and replayed, on top of that focus on making them fun (2.0 relic quest) and people would replay it much more, probably even do it for alt-classes, keeping content relevant for much longer.

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Are we the only two here who found the 2.0 relic quests fun? Because there was little grind involved (beat 6 of these 3 enemies) and it was challenging. (When it was released then.)

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

With the addition of being able to upgrade the lore weapon to 240 it is timed just right to uncap the Midan Gear so people can get all the gears they need to get the weapon without waiting for 7 weeks. It still take little over 2 weeks to get it as the 1000 lore cost is still there.

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And I actually don't understand this. Why being able to get infinite number of Midan Gears if we still have to wait ~2.2 weeks for a weapon? 3.4 will be here and I will still have Midan Gears to use. Imho, they should have reduced to price of the lore token from 100 to 45 lors. Thus, 1 weapon a week would have been possible.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

If content took less time to access, gear took less time to get and was much less grindy, people would replay the stuff much more, making content to last longer. That illusion of "long term goals keep content alive for longer" is that, an illusion. The easier things are to get, the more they are played and replayed, on top of that focus on making them fun (2.0 relic quest) and people would replay it much more, probably even do it for alt-classes, keeping content relevant for much longer.

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Its so true. With vertical progression like this, we need stuff that is less grindy. By the time you get it, its lifespan is that much shorter. That and most players are playing alt jobs and would LOVE to gear up more than 1 main class, tome cap limits included.

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Originally Posted by Centershock

Are we the only two here who found the 2.0 relic quests fun? Because there was little grind involved (beat 6 of these 3 enemies) and it was challenging. (When it was released then.)

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I`ve asked all of my friend list and linkshells and FC... Probably 90% of the people i know in my server (cactuar, 120 people aprox) have said the loved the very first stage of 2.0 relic quest.I honestly belive XIV is absolutely afraid of that burned "thought" content, so afraid of just a handfull of people to be able to come in a month or so and say "i did all my relics! this game has no content!" that they simply overdid it so they never have to deal with that, while, that minuscle part of the population is being kept in control by making the larger part of their players to simply hate/skip the relic quest altogether. I never heard anyone saying "Im so happy about finishing this goal, i proud of all my work" usually is more like "F**k relic quest im f****g DONE with it". All that to just prevent what... That 00.01% of the players that might posibly have the spare time to dedicate the whole month to farm 11 relic weapons dont come in here and say they got nothing to do anymore?

Extremes are never good, the developer team absolute terror for that "content draught" that keeps all goals long term and the flow of new content pumping much faster than those long term goals are worth getting or relevant, thus, content is irrelevant soon after released, completely irrelevant a patch later and nothing is anymore worth the trouble getting since long term goals are not worth it if a patch later they just get irrelevant and then they get easier to get anyway. Many people is waiting for 4.0 to land so they do Alexander Savage with echo and unsync to not deal with it right now, the reward isnt good enough neither...

What will be the point of getting the last raid weapon at Alexander Midas 12 Savage if when 4.0 arrives an NPC midway though the levels 64 to 66 will sell weapons exactly like it or even better for 20,000 gil?

This game whole reward vs relevance vs time investment is messed up. Its time to turn the ship a bit towards the other direction. Pure horizontal progression isn`t good neither (GW2 is testament of that). There needs to be a stick and a carrot to make people want to get things, but that has to come with FUN first, grinding esoterics or atmas or crystals or bashing the heads of players against near impossible tight DPS checks isn't fun, people is NOT making their relics, they are NOT doing savage, they are NOT following the carrot anymore. Make the carrot easier to follow, and more tastier, and more fun to persuit... If we are the absolute example of vertical progression... We need to get a tad more horizontal so we end up being "diagonal" or a truly progressive curve.

Most of the nerfs were expected, but what surprised me the most was that they made HQ items available from the GCs. They more or less "nerfed" that step by making the items no longer needing specialized crafters. As far as I know they didn't make the items from desynth (ARR era relic) available in other ways as a form of nerf, so why this?

They really need to stop making crafters needed in these relic steps if this is what they'll end up doing.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

- Design desision arround gear progression.
- The need of this kind of geargrind.
- The "content draught" vs "content burning" paradox.
- Reward vs Patch Timing.
- Effects over the replayability and relevance of gear and content due to this decision.
- Impact of the above over the game capability to keep playerbase interested.

There is a lot to discuss about this patch note considering the context it arrives in, and this discussion will further expand during 3.4, and probably get even more relevance depending on how the progression for the last installement of Alexander works, what will the next step of the relic be and how will the Diadem come out of all of this.

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Subjective.