Unjust Kicking from Alexander T4

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

If you want to establish and set your own standards for the group, that is what Party Finder is for.

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This exact same statement (by you) can be used towards those wanting to "learn by doing" and refuse to research.

In fact, the Party Finder has a specific setting called "Learning party", so that implies that those unwilling to research should be the ones using the Party Finder.


It's common courtesy and good manners to at least know what the fight mechanics are before using DF. No one is suggesting you have to be "Pro" or anything like that. Just cursory knowledge of the mechanics... you don't even have to watch a video.

People who treat people new to the instance disgust me, How can you be so ignorant to not help out a new player and SAVE yourself from a wipe how hard is it to just type a brief explanation instead of going in head first without explaining then wiping and having to start the fight again, People seem to be afraid to talk to one another these days incase they get their head bitten off.

In any case I dont even think it's hard to even create a macro to use incase anyone is New in a dungeon and just click it to explain, I especially as a tank HATE it when I get silent groups as it's purely ignorant especially when the only word people can say in a dungeon is "Go" aaaaaaarrrrrggggghh it makes me so angry, People just TALK to each other this is a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE Experience not a Single player game!

Might be worth noting that NA (where SDaemon's data center is) and Japan (Where Kaedan's is) have very different uses of DF and PF.

On Aether and, as far as I know, the other NA data centers, it's considered polite/normal to go into DF a few times on content to learn it before starting a PF party. The idea being that a random DF group isn't going to be able to clear hard content anyway so you DF it expecting to fail just to kind of get your sea legs, then a proper learning/clear party.

On Elemental and, as far as I know, the other JP data centers, it's considered polite/normal to make learning parties and learn the entire fight as best as you can before DFing it, with the idea that if everyone knows the fight from party finder, you can DF to win, and you don't inconvenience strangers with your incompetence.

Doing blind learning PFs on things that have dropped into DF on Aether is considered rude, and it's 'common courtesy' to at least know the fight mechanics before joining a PF group.

It's different data center cultures. No reason to fight each other over it.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

People who treat people new to the instance disgust me, How can you be so ignorant to not help out a new player and SAVE yourself from a wipe how hard is it to just type a brief explanation instead of going in head first without explaining then wiping and having to start the fight again, People seem to be afraid to talk to one another these days incase they get their head bitten off.

In any case I dont even think it's hard to even create a macro to use incase anyone is New in a dungeon and just click it to explain, I especially as a tank HATE it when I get silent groups as it's purely ignorant especially when the only word people can say in a dungeon is "Go" aaaaaaarrrrrggggghh it makes me so angry, People just TALK to each other this is a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE Experience not a Single player game!

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I can't speak for others, but I will always explain things to new players. Even if someone hasn't researched it, but has the common courtesy to say they're new, then I'll explain with no complaints. The issue is, the vast majority of new players refuse to say they're new so I don't know I have to explain... then they get us wiped, wasting all the time up until that point.

I still think people should have the decency to at least look up the mechanics before they go into a (potentially) difficult instance such as A4 or the Extremes.

I've noticed some of the "watch a video"/"read a guide" crowd aren't accounting for varrying strategies that different groups use. I've been in more than one instance where I fumble around at first (even after watching the video---twice) because there was a special strategy that wasn't written anywhere or disclosed until I ran said content and would be yelled at for not getting with the program. Does it happen often? Not enough to be a huge issue. It does happen enough to mention.

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Originally Posted by Krylo

Doing blind learning PFs on things that have dropped into DF on Aether is considered rude, and it's 'common courtesy' to at least know the fight mechanics before joining a PF group.

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Being on Aether I don't know where you got this idea that doing learning PF is considered rude... learning is learning after all.
Learning party - for learning, no expectations
Practice party - for practicing, you're expected to have learned already
Clear party - for clearing, you have enough practice but have had bad luck with others in learning and practice parties...
Farm party - does it need any explanation?

You can't expect people to be happy that there's a player wanting to do a blind run, but at the same time you can't expect people to know the fight. That's pretty much DF, you'll get randomly put into a party with people that may have a differing opinions about the use of DF than you.
After all, it's not like any side is wrong in this. People wanting a blind run, because they enjoy doing content this way? Sure, makes sense. People wanting a fast clear, since they might need to do the same thing who knows how many times? Hard to blame them. Don't be surprised though if 7 people in df are experienced and they won't be patient with that 1 person who has no idea about the fight.

If someone truly dislikes parties that they can end up in then the only solution is to not use DF and to actually create/join a party fitting their preferences through PF or just fc/ls. Especially if the content is new, there should more than enough people on (most) servers to fill every kind of party.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

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Well, when learning t9, for instance, the idea was you'd DF it to learn first phase + golems. Could get to heavensfall in a DF group after a couple tries usually, but you weren't going to expect anyone to put in the time or organization to get fire in/fire out learned well enough to even see dive bombs. Once you had the first two phases figured out for yourself, mostly, you'd make a learning party to learn the last phase. If you didn't know the first two you could easily be kicked out of learning parties who weren't interested in wiping to comets and golems a bunch AGAIN.

I'd imagine it'll be the same for BisEx when it drops to DF, eventually. With learning parties wanting to learn the weather patterns, not deal with people who can't DPS through the adds. Although by the time BisEx hits DF people might be geared enough that the DPS checks are of no real consequence, at which point it'll be easy enough to just beat in DF.

For most content learning anything in DF isn't necessary, though.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

Dungeons are supposed to be learned by playing them, wiping, learning by mistake, improving etc...

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That 'etc.' should include "Not on Duty Finder".

It is common courtesy to help new players as well. Not everyone can learn from a youtube video. I've watched plenty of videos on a fight..and failed horribly. Then someone explains and and I'm doing much better. People need to stop assuming that a youtube video is the silver bullet.