Healers need an overhaul

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

WE HAD ALL THAT AND SE REMOVED THEM ALL!!!

We had skills like Virus, Disable, Eye for an Eye, Slows, Heavys, Knockbacks, Shields, etc. and they all got removed. There is literally NOTHING left but Heals, the occasional mitigation effect and filler spam. Why do you think we're bored out of our minds? Because we lost everything that made Healers fun, not just a handful of DPS skills.

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then my point is proven, having these WOULD solve the problem. my point isn't based on what the devs will do, since clearly they're happy with the way they're doing things atm. this is a viable alternative to dps in all but name, it's already been done, even.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Personally, I’d love to at least have Addle & Feint for the healer. About half of the “main DPS” that I’ve encountered don’t even use them because it’s not even on their hotbar, claimed too busy to focus on their rotation most of time (my static’s SAM is guilty for this) and/or it never crossed their mind to utilize them.

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i wish we had addle too. it literally used to be virus that got taken away from us for absolutely no reason. we cant have too much responsibility as healers!

Somehow when people die to unavoidable damage because a dps was too focused on their rotation to use addle/feint is fine, i guess because its was a dps player.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

then my point is proven, having these WOULD solve the problem. my point isn't based on what the devs will do, since clearly they're happy with the way they're doing things atm. this is a viable alternative to dps in all but name, it's already been done, even.

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The thing is, the majority of those effects were attached to DPS spells
Stone 1, Stella and Miasma were all skills that did damage but also had a Heavy Effect.
Shadowflare was a ground based DoT that applied a Slow effect to every enemy inside the dome
Fluid Aura was a Knockback that did damage.

So there's nothing wrong with adding DPS spells either.

Some hot takes for everyone:

Addersgall should be tied to dot procs the way brd used to work. It should be a large enough chance to get requisite use of those heals, but small enough to where you're not constantly overcapping. That's an easy way to tie heals to dps, even if it's passive.

Addersting should be built through a gauge similar to esprit. You fill the gauge through the gcds of yourself and your kardia partner. Make the potency the same as dosis so it's fully neutral, and a resource you can stockpile up to 3 of for uses such as; heavy healing segments that you would want to have double weave slots for; heavy movement sections that you want a few gcds' worth of instant casts for; upcoming aoe sections that you want to nuke down quickly (similar to stockpiling lilies in dungeons on whm); and other such cases. This would be a more direct form of tying heals to dps, since toxikon also heals.

Idk, I'm no job designer. And I should already know by now that healers are big dummy dumbheads who don't know how to optimize and would shrivel up and cry at being given options to do so.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

Some hot takes for everyone:

Addersgall should be tied to dot procs the way brd used to work. It should be a large enough chance to get requisite use of those heals, but small enough to where you're not constantly overcapping. That's an easy way to tie heals to dps, even if it's passive.

Addersting should be built through a gauge similar to esprit. You fill the gauge through the gcds of yourself and your kardia partner. Make the potency the same as dosis so it's fully neutral, and a resource you can stockpile up to 3 of for uses such as; heavy healing segments that you would want to have double weave slots for; heavy movement sections that you want a few gcds' worth of instant casts for; upcoming aoe sections that you want to nuke down quickly (similar to stockpiling lilies in dungeons on whm); and other such cases. This would be a more direct form of tying heals to dps, since toxikon also heals.

Idk, I'm no job designer. And I should already know by now that healers are big dummy dumbheads who don't know how to optimize and would shrivel up and cry at being given options to do so.

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I feel DoTs should be SCHs thing since that's how it was in the past and that having them build up the Fairy Gauge would be better. Tying RNG procs, no matter how large a %, for something that is integral to not only how a class heals but also manages their MP economy would do nothing positive for SGE and just handicap the job entirely. Having it tied to a singular skill that doesn't hugely impact how the job performs though would be functionally better as to not cause problems with the rest of the toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I feel DoTs should be SCHs thing since that's how it was in the past and that having them build up the Fairy Gauge would be better. Tying RNG procs, no matter how large a %, for something that is integral to not only how a class heals but also manages their MP economy would do nothing positive for SGE and just handicap the job entirely. Having it tied to a singular skill that doesn't hugely impact how the job performs though would be functionally better as to not cause problems with the rest of the toolkit.

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I see your point, but I wanted it to be tied to dps somehow and I felt that linking it to something you'll have up 100% of the time would be a good way to do that, and I didn't feel it was entirely necessary for it to be constantly proccing knowing how damage tends to be. Mp economy is an entirely different bear I felt. Not sure what you mean in your alternative though.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

I see your point, but I wanted it to be tied to dps somehow and I felt that linking it to something you'll have up 100% of the time would be a good way to do that, and I didn't feel it was entirely necessary for it to be constantly proccing knowing how damage tends to be. Mp economy is an entirely different bear I felt. Not sure what you mean in your alternative though.

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Since SGEs MP economy is directly tied to Addersgal, not being able to generate Addersgal consistently would be disastrous for the job as a whole. Not only do you lower the skill floor for the job considerably by punishing players with low DPS uptime but also in cases when the boss is not targetable or you die and can't refresh the DoT, you have no way to generate Addersgal until the DoT can be refreshed, limiting the job heavily at the higher end of the spectrum as well.

The alternative I was referring to was having DoTs on SCH that build up the Fairy Gauge. Since the Fairy Gauge is limited to Aetherpact and that Aetherpact isn't a huge component to SCH's capability to heal, it would be more than adequate for DoTs to function as a means of build up the Fairy Gauge than they would Addersgal/Aetherflow/Lilies etc.

I think a better direction to take SGE in would be to expand on Kardia by having skills that restore more/less HP on use but offer different benefits for the SGE.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Since SGEs MP economy is directly tied to Addersgal, not being able to generate Addersgal consistently would be disastrous for the job as a whole. Not only do you lower the skill floor for the job considerably by punishing players with low DPS uptime but also in cases when the boss is not targetable or you die and can't refresh the DoT, you have no way to generate Addersgal until the DoT can be refreshed, limiting the job heavily at the higher end of the spectrum as well.

The alternative I was referring to was having DoTs on SCH that build up the Fairy Gauge. Since the Fairy Gauge is limited to Aetherpact and that Aetherpact isn't a huge component to SCH's capability to heal, it would be more than adequate for DoTs to function as a means of build up the Fairy Gauge than they would Addersgal/Aetherflow/Lilies etc.

I think a better direction to take SGE in would be to expand on Kardia by having skills that restore more/less HP on use but offer different benefits for the SGE.

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The thing about brd's dot procs is that they were a lot more frequent than you think, even though the tick is 3 secs. I suggested them as a (former?) brd main because I know even if your luck is "bad," when you have 2 dots with a 40% chance per tick you're still getting a fair deal every 30 secs. As it is now with the current flat 80% rate it's not as much but it's a similar number, and that's in the line of what I'm suggesting. That's nearly a guaranteed 1 proc per gcd window. To put that on fairy gauge would make it build way way way faster than it does now making you sit on a mostly useless overcapped resource for even longer than before. That would pretty much just be unnecessary fluff. On the other hand, if you're looking at that sort of proc rate for addersgall, which is used as frequently as it is, then you will most likely overcap every now and then, but it should be at a very accommodating rate either way. In fact, it would make it a far more plentiful resource than it already is with its 10(?) second charge time per stack. Enough to nerf the individual heals with how spammable it becomes, I'd say.

Kardia, to me, is an almost insultingly lazy design on the devs' part as it is that they're trying to pass off as "dps healing"; it's literally just passive healing on a single target as a substitute for fairy heals. I'd rather it not be a thing at all, personally, but my addersting suggestion was an indirect way to build off of it regardless if we accept it as sacrosanct to the job's identity. You could, I suppose, build off of it with support abilities, but sge isn't a support healer the way sch is.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

The thing is, the majority of those effects were attached to DPS spells
Stone 1, Stella and Miasma were all skills that did damage but also had a Heavy Effect.
Shadowflare was a ground based DoT that applied a Slow effect to every enemy inside the dome
Fluid Aura was a Knockback that did damage.

So there's nothing wrong with adding DPS spells either.

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good lord its like the entire point i'm trying to make went over your head. the whole point was giving healers something other to do than healing that isn't being a dps in all but name. so i offered adding support spells, not more dps spells as an alternative solution.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

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Think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

While Kardia is lazy design, not building on it will just leave it in that state. SCH at least tried to make the Fairy more than just passive regen whereas Kardia doesn't feel developed at all and needs more for it to feel distinct in its own right.

I'm still not convinced on Aggersgal though. I've been screwed enough times on BRD procs (both old and new) to know I don't want to deal with it on an important mechanic such as Addersgal but for something superfluous, like Aetherpact, it would be fine. That's just my 2 cents though.