Lack of End Game Content

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Originally Posted by linay

Yes, but it's all related, which is perhaps another reason why we have the amount of content we have (aside from not having enough people), because they have to factor in time for people to level multiple jobs and gear them at reasonable pace.

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Everything in a game is related in some way, that's really not the point. The point being expressed is that there isn't enough max level content for those who enjoy max level content. Pointing to progression or leveling content and saying "look content" is just not addressing the issue

This is the first time since ARR ive been around during one of the xpac starts but has this ever been so heavily discussed before or were people content with how its been. Im finding i have more to do than I have hours in a day but im being a gil goblin right now and between chasing ephemerals crafting all the different things stalking my markets to make sure im not being undercut I dont know what to do with myself. I like the raids we have ESPECIALLY not having trash. Ive whined about how much I hated trash in WoW for years, it just slows down the raid. I want to zone in and farm my bosses or zone in and progress my bosses im not interested in losing 20-40 minutes of our clock to inconsequential tat.

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Originally Posted by Qeilos

This is the first time since ARR ive been around during one of the xpac starts but has this ever been so heavily discussed before or were people content with how its been.

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2018 thread - https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...e_feels_empty/

2013 thread - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ame-content%21

FFXIV has never been strong at endgame, it's just never been one of its strengths :)

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Originally Posted by Kaylessa

Everything in a game is related in some way, that's really not the point.

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Well maybe it should, because if they're related, then they will have an effect on each other in how the game is made as a whole, which includes how many endgame content there is to be played. So if people don't enjoy the majority of content available in this game, there is a high probability that they will never be satisfied with the game unless the few things that they do enjoy takes enough time to justify their continued subscription. Otherwise, they'll probably just have to be satisfied with only subscribing for parts of the expansion (if not quitting entirely). And since Yoshida has said he's ok with people unsubscribing when they don't want to do anything in the game, I think it really does mean he's satisfied with the current endgame content, and probably there are enough players who are content as well, more or less.

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Originally Posted by linay

Well maybe it should, because if they're related, then they will have an effect on each other in how the game is made as a whole, which includes how many endgame content there is to be played. So if people don't enjoy the majority of content available in this game, there is a high probability that they will never be satisfied with the game unless the few things that they do enjoy takes enough time to justify their continued subscription. Otherwise, they'll probably just have to be satisfied with only subscribing for parts of the expansion (if not quitting entirely).

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There's a lot of assumptions in this post along with one or two inaccuracies. The idea that people who want more end game content haven't enjoyed the majority of the content is an assumption. There are people who've been around since 2.0 or before who want more end game content. Also if people didn't enjoy the majority of the game then chances are they won't still be playing the game, so let's discuss content.

Leveling every single job isn't a significant part of the content of the game. It takes a boatload of time but leveling a second job through the same content is doing practically the same content (except job quests) through a different set of eyes. and pushing different buttons. Saying a person hasn't done anywhere near all the content because they have a third of the jobs leveled to 80 is inaccurate, they've done a boatload of content, just not 100 billion times to level black mage to 80.

What's being asked for is for the game to present more content at the end of the game. That doesn't mean these people don't like FFXIV, it doesn't mean these people have played hardly any of the game, all you can tell by this is these people would like more max level content.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Well yes. Nobody here who is getting everything they want would like it to change. This isn't greedy, or selfish but common sense. Why give up anything if it's all working for us now?

Tell me it'd stop at 5% and I won't believe you. Then it would be "well if we just had... " . If this had anything to do with actual human suffering or needs you'd have an argument since people would be being denied basic human needs. But it's a video game and a complete luxury. This is our place, you are welcome to come in and play , but we're going to complain if you try to change it. I believe you expressed the same sentiment.

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From ARR to HW SE added normal mode so everyone can enjoy the story behind it and earn some loot. From HW and SB they remove the extra details from gear so now the armour is the same but no dye option. From SB to ShB the extra boss from savage has been removed because certain sector of the player based complained.

On top of that since SB extreme primals and the first two turns of each tier from savage are casual friendly content, with the later two become more accessible as you gear up. There is also the option to experience then and earn the rewards a patch or an expansion later. My point? Is content that everyone can enjoy and participate at some point or another. If someone decided they don't want to do that is their problem, like is my problem not having every single class to max level.

Also, ultimate fights are 100% re-use of old assets with re-skinned rewards while 24m raids are getting more and more resources, longer quest and even voice acting during boss fights. Also, Ultimate was reduced from 3 to 2 and I have the feeling this expansion is going to be down to 1.

The reality is that SE already invests more money on content for everyone and if they add more content towards lvl 80 will also be accessible for everyone (for example any new raid extra turn will have normal mode) at some point or another. All of this without touching the average content casuals do:

- Normal mode raid.
- 24m raid.
- Roulettes.
- Relic.
- Leveling.
- MSQ.
- Glamour.

Adding more "interesting" level 80 content is only going to benefit FFXIV (and in general people is not asking for Ultimate level of challenge, most will be happy with something similar to current extreme primals) one way or another with the exception of people that refuse to do anything that requires any kind of effort and this type of players must be ignored or you will kill the game.

Baldasion arsenal was the perfect example of challenging content accessible for everyone (with the exception of how you get inside), you need to prepare yourself and deal with easy, but unforgiving, mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I want a home, and this could be it if they would be some effort in.

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If you want to make a home out of a MMO, you need to invest in more than just one part. It's not SE that's failing to put in effort, you are the one that isn't. You need to start playing other parts of the game if you intend it to be your home.

End game content is any content requiring a level cap job. You're the one limiting yourself here by narrowing defining what you're willing to do to just Savage Raiding and EX trials when there is a lot of other content that also requires a level 80 job. It can be argued that solo farming HW EX trials is end game content since it's not something people are likely to accomplish on anything other than a level 80 job (though I wouldn't be surprised if there are a handful of exceptionally skilled player that probably could do some of them at a lower level).

The FFXIV team has made it clear they prefer players come to the game when new content is released, enjoy what parts of it interest them, then move on and enjoy other games until new content here is released then come back to enjoy the new content. They don't actually want you making it your only and permanent home. They go far as to talk about other games they personally play and enjoy outside of FFXIV.

That's a healthy attitude for them to take and one that more players should likewise learn to embrace. No one game should consume all a person's leisure time when there are so many other things they could also be experiencing.

SE is making the amount of content they feel comfortable making based on their philosophy for this game. If it's not enough for you, then it's not enough for you. That's the point you need to accept you need to also start playing other games in addition to FFXIV if you're not going to take an interest in the other content this game has to offer.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

From ARR to HW SE added normal mode so everyone can enjoy the story behind it and earn some loot. From HW and SB they remove the extra details from gear so now the armour is the same but no dye option. From SB to ShB the extra boss from savage has been removed because certain sector of the player based complained.

On top of that since SB extreme primals and the first two turns of each tier from savage are casual friendly content, with the later two become more accessible as you gear up. There is also the option to experience then and earn the rewards a patch or an expansion later. My point? Is content that everyone can enjoy and participate at some point or another.

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So.. "look, now that you can faceroll this content it's all yours and it counts as us doing something for you!" Sounds.. a little unappealing.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

If someone decided they don't want to do that is their problem, like is my problem not having every single class to max level.

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Sounds like the attitude you dislike from the other side is the same. Why concede if the feeling is mutual?

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Also, ultimate fights are 100% re-use of old assets with re-skinned rewards while 24m raids are getting more and more resources, longer quest and even voice acting during boss fights. Also was reduce from 3 to 2 and I have the feeling this expansion is going to be down to 1.

The reality is that SE already invests more money on content for everyone and if they add more content towards lvl 80 will also be accessible for everyone (because any new raid extra turn will have normal mode) at some point or another. All of this without touching the average content casuals do:

- Normal mode raid.
- 24m raid.
- Roulettes.
- Relic.
- Leveling.
- MSQ.
- Glamour.

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none of this speaks to what I referenced. Why change the formula that is currently working? The question that was asked was "why are so many people against adding MORE challenging 'endgame' content? It's such a tiny change" The answer is because it would take away something from the system we're enjoying. It might not even be a lot, I can understand that. But why would they support something that removes content from them? Because maybe they'll get a toned down version later? Why be happy with leftovers when we're getting the lions share of the content?

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Adding more level 80 is going to benefit everyone (and in general people is not asking for Ultimate level of challenge, most will be happy with something similar to current extreme primals) one way or another with the exception of people that refuse to do anything that requires any kind of effort and this type of players must be ignored or you will kill the game.

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It may eventually add content for everyone but it will primarily benefit the "endgame" crowd. The "casual" crowd you are refusing to name has been a majority supporting this game for 6 years, seems to work.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I mean, if you only do PvE content, and only play one or two classes, you can find yourself running out of content, but there's more than enough side-content to do. I still haven't run out of things to do, even after 6 years of playing.

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Well, its PVE content is its centerpiece, with PVP being a very poorly developed alternative, and not particularly good. It's also not something that many MMO players care about, but even for those who do, there's already MMOs which do it much better. Also, although it is alt-job friendly, not everyone cares for that. I guess there's an expectation that it would eventually develop its PVE content further. I haven't had enough time to raid in the game due to my work (although I did when I played WoW and I'm hoping to have more time for it this coming year), but I can see why people would say the end-game content is limited in scope by comparison.

To be honest, I really like splitting my time between 3 MMOs - WoW, FFXIV, and ESO. I feel like they all provide something different and together they give me all I want in an MMO. I feel like I can live in FFXIV and ESO (not WoW), I feel like WoW gives me good endgame content and an in depth loot system (even if it's too RNG focused), ESO gives me the best questing experience and it's quite a social game as well (people talk and group up more there), and I feel FFXIV gives me good engaging stories and characters, really fun progression dungeons and raids, and a really engaging crafting and gathering system (which ESO also does to a lesser degree … not WoW).

It's reasonable to start a discussion about whether FFXIV should have more endgame content, but I think FFXIV will consolidate on their strengths first with maybe a sprinkling of endgame. I feel as though focusing on the golden saucer or crafters would be more in theme with the type of game they're trying to create. They seem to want to promote community driven content also so they may decide to put their efforts towards that.

But I'm happy with spreading my attention over three games so I'm not upset about the lack of this kind of content in any way. In fact I really like starting new characters in FFXIV, I feel no rush reaching the end in that game. The leveling process is really nice and relaxing.