The arrogance of some people

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Originally Posted by Eothas

I would love a Full Support class (the character in my signature is a FS in an old MMO), but I can't imagine how SE would make it without it being super boring and with tons of downtime. If they just remove all DPS skills and keep everything the way it is right now, would be utterly boring. Increasing healing checks is not enough.

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Every class will always have DPS skills no matter what. Otherwise players who choose said classes cannot complete solo story missions. There will never be a true "full support"

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Originally Posted by Odett

Right, it's not like healers have viable DPS or anything; very accurate comparison.

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hu? better than staying around doing nothing

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Originally Posted by Odett

So they should remove cleric stance and make tanks hit like wet noodles because as a WHM main, you still can't grasp that you're not meant to be healing fulltime? That's not fail design, that's a feature that this game has that makes healing much more involving compared to other MMO's. Flat out refusing to DPS when you have absolutely nothing better to do and using "but I'm a HEALER" and blaming game design still makes you lazy. I don't condone bringing tanks and healers to a braindead level of play just because you refuse to adapt to the potential of your role.

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please read again, i never said that. i just proofed Morningstar wrong about what square has to do to change classes into only heal / only tank.

what i said is that i don't play healer anymore because healers are not anymore healers. a game with a trinity should have a trinity. just my opinion. i can agree that healers should have to do damage in healing downtimes. but it is a faildesign that these downtimes are 80% of the time and dps is of course not the reason i choosed to play a healer...

If they remove DPS Skills of the healers, won't the solo instances be hard or too long?

Then they will complain about that.
You cannot win this battle of healer DPS yes or no.

There will always be complaints, always...

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Originally Posted by Reisui

You cannot win this battle of healer DPS yes or no.

There will always be complaints, always...

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True.

In the end it's healers own business if they dps or not, probably reason why I que to duties mostly as healer because I am confident of my own skills to do heals/dps.

If I happen to que as tank or dps and group is however doing great, meaning healer doesn't have to burn MP to keep up alive and I see him/her just standing around... Well, it makes me bit sad inside. But I won't kick healer from duty because they don't do dps.

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Originally Posted by Tint

what i said is that i don't play healer anymore because healers are not anymore healers. a game with a trinity should have a trinity. just my opinion. i can agree that healers should have to do damage in healing downtimes. but it is a faildesign that these downtimes are 80% of the time and dps is of course not the reason i choosed to play a healer...

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It's always been like this, though, since the start of 2.0. Healers DPSing isn't something that started with Heavensward, on your first lv 15 dungeon during the first week that this game came out, you quickly noticed that you had a considerable amount of healing downtime 5 minutes into Sastasha; this is nothing new.

I'm going to quote someone who's probably extremely tired of posting in this thread, but this information is very relevant whenever someone brings up the trinity.

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

Again, why are we still talking about the "trinity"? I have explained this before - the trinity is only something used by the queue to group people in duty finder with a diverse enough combined skill set to clear the instance. That's it. It doesn't tell you anything about playing your class. Nothing at all. Rather, the duty objectives are listed for you and they are the same for your whole team. Use your toolkit to help progress through the instance. Preferably your WHOLE toolkit, as using all of it gives you the most utility, obviously.

If the trinty is so all-important and should never, ever be violated, explain this phrase: "This composition is not imposed upon pre-formed parties".

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I honestly don't care too much whether the healer does dps or not, though I will say that it does bug me to see anyone not doing anything at all for extended periods of time. When it comes down to it, in these dungeons, I'm more worried about the tank doing big enough pulls. I feel that kind of drag a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Odett

It's always been like this, though, since the start of 2.0. Healers DPSing isn't something that started with Heavensward, on your first lv 15 dungeon during the first week that this game came out, you quickly noticed that you had a considerable amount of healing downtime 5 minutes into Sastasha; this is nothing new.

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That's never really been selling point for me though. It's gotten to the point where if I can spend at least 70% of the time just spamming dps spells as a healer, I'd rather go as a real dps job. Dealing damage with blm/mnk etc. is just much more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

Every class will always have DPS skills no matter what. Otherwise players who choose said classes cannot complete solo story missions. There will never be a true "full support"

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True then just don't allow Cleric Stance for instances. It will be a skill just for Open World and Story and problem fix.

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

True then just don't allow Cleric Stance for instances. It will be a skill just for Open World and Story and problem fix.

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This is the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. Don't project your inefficiencies onto other players. You can choose to play the game however you like, but implying that other players should be forced to play the same way is idiotic. If you feel poorly that people don't respect your ability as a player because they expect something of you, it's on you. The Healer job is capable of doing more than just healing, sorry, it is a fact. That other more efficient players should be crippled by your insecurity is both shallow and dumb.

It's every healer's choice if they want to dps or not. The same is true for damage dealers. They make the choice if they want to be bad or good. But if you don't use your tools to full potential can you expect others to do the opposite?

Healer is there to heal unavoidable damage. Don't be afraid to let someone die when they stand in aoes or can't use defensive cooldowns. Let them die. The moment you realise that keeping people alive isn't just your job, but also their own responsibility, you might be more willing to turn the cleric stance on for few CDs.

Due to the overgearing system in this game, which is here to support less skilled players and stupid gear based dps checks, dpsing healer's are and probably still will be the most optimal form of playstyle.

The only thing I'd say is that it is a player's choice, not a healer's choice. They are playing a class capable of doing both. There is a clear separation of skill between those who choose to fully utilize their job's abilities, and those that don't.

The same argument can't be made for certain DPS classes. Dragoon for instance has very little in terms of moves that they don't use, and they're limited to Ring of Thorns and Feint. They aren't used because they lack efficiency found elsewhere in the job's kit. If a Scholar refuses to utilize roughly half of their abilities, some of which are off GCD and no rational explanation can be given, they are actively choosing to negate their benefits. No detriment could be argued for a healer that doesn't do damage over one that does. It's quite simple.