Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

Birds of hate, generally flock together. It's a waste of time to engage with people that use dehumanizing language like that. Anyone that uses woke or soy unironically obviously has an inferiority complex.

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Thanks Wuk lamat

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Here's a question, do you even know what the term "woke" means? Let me Gubal that for you.

woke(verb): alert to and concerned about social injustice and discrimination.

If you're saying the writers are being alarmist? Then I don't think so - even people who have different beliefs actually can still write a shoddy story for 7.0/7.1. To be fair, we also didn't have "Wuk shoved down our throats" as people are claiming this time because Sphene needed development from her cryostasis of 400 years. Sure, Wuk was present, but she was a little better in 7.2 than she was in the previous two patches - which is an improvement. I won't call it perfect either.

In general though, I think they made good on culture, just did it wrong with Wuk not having any depth. Whoever has taken over the writing has done a better job, though I'm still wondering how they're going to finish out the expansion story. They at least aren't going to the length that post-patch EW was with a giant nostalgia trip - but I think that they used the references better instead of outright copy pasta-ing story beats/villains while mixing a tiny bit of XIV in.

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Yeah, I'm aware of how woke was originally used. Thats why I've described my fave expansion, Stormblood, as wokeness done right many times.

I'm from a POC background, and if the writers ever portrayed my culture the way they portrayed India through Thavnair, I’d be seriously disappointed—maybe even pissed. Going too woke reduces cultures to props and empty set dressing. Its condescending as hell imo.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

Thanks Wuk lamat

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Eat your heart out.

I like how Wuk Lamat was less "in your face" in 7.2. She even decided to go with Malachite instead of following you with Sphene.
The devs seem to be getting the message.

Mao said it before and Mao says it agains. Mao likes Lady Fuzzy Cat. Is borings MSQs whats Mao nots like. Mao was hopings Mao would get to do lots funs stuff with Lady Fuzzy Cat. Instead all Mao gots was "Talk to Lady Fuzzy Cat".

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao said it before and Mao says it agains. Mao likes Lady Fuzzy Cat. Is borings MSQs whats Mao nots like. Mao was hopings Mao would get to do lots funs stuff with Lady Fuzzy Cat. Instead all Mao gots was "Talk to Lady Fuzzy Cat".

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Gunz not have utilities to gives nations voting power or bill of rights after nation just got done with war over monarch. Oh well, gunz keep enjoying the ride, he no diplomat.

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Originally Posted by Ghost_of_Ebina

I like how Wuk Lamat was less "in your face" in 7.2. She even decided to go with Malachite instead of following you with Sphene.
The devs seem to be getting the message.

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If that's the dev's takeaway there is no hope for this game's story.

Wuk Lamat is just a symptom of how much of a failure the writers are. Including Ishikawa, who massacred all the worldbuilding in ShB and EW.

Yeah.

You're proof there is no pleasing people like u

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Originally Posted by LoganMccree

If that's the dev's takeaway there is no hope for this game's story.

Wuk Lamat is just a symptom of how much of a failure the writers are. Including Ishikawa, who massacred all the worldbuilding in ShB and EW.

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I'd be interested on hearing you elaborate on that opinion since ShB is considered, by many, to be FFXIV at it's best.

What annoys me far more than Wuk... is the constant eating. Ever since 6.x made eating a novelty for Zero, they use food as some sort of pinnacle of story telling.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

What annoys me far more than Wuk... is the constant eating. Ever since 6.x made eating a novelty for Zero, they use food as some sort of pinnacle of story telling.

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Well. I once read someone summaise the whole Comicsgate problem like this:
suddenly superheroes were all about eating food and talking about feelings all the time. Instead whatever is usual superhero stuff. I dunno, I don't read american comics.

Of course ff14 and superhero comics are pretty far from one another. Other than maybe swimming the distant, opposite ends of geekosphere pool.
But the ailment the writing is suffering seems to have coincidental similarities.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

Of course ff14 and superhero comics are pretty far from one another. Other than maybe swimming the distant, opposite ends of geekosphere pool.
But the ailment the writing is suffering seems to have coincidental similarities.

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They're closer than you think.
Final Fantasy XIV involves super powered individuals, most notably the Warrior of Light.
FF14 is written like a mystery novel, modern tokusatsu, of which Yoshida is a fan of, most notably Kamen Rider, or a Super Sentai series like Kingohger, is written like a mystery novel with superheroes.
Japanese Superheroes makes up the majority of the Tokusatsu genre
FF14 -> Mystery Novels with Superpowers -> Tokusatsu / Japanese Superheroes -> Western Superheroes

Hi, new player here. Wuk is genuinely the worst thing to ever happen to this game. However even without her, the writing is just god awful. Also i can't be the only one who finds Wuk's and Sphene's friendship insanely forced.

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Originally Posted by Broskie

Hi, new player here. Wuk is genuinely the worst thing to ever happen to this game. However even without her, the writing is just god awful. Also i can't be the only one who finds Wuk's and Sphene's friendship insanely forced.

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I call it Wuk no Jutsu. Everyone gets tempered by her and have no opposing views to her, or if they do, they vanish after a bit of a dose of good ol' wuk no jutsu. It causes villains to do 180's, it causes everyone to adore her and forget their own goals and co-exist within her world, even her brothers own passions and goals got erased and devoured by Wuk no jutsu's papa peace project.

DT is the first expansion where I'm 100% certain I won't rewatch the cutscenes. DT is the first expansion that I'm 100% certain I won't play with a second character.

Oh my God this is still going.

I get why, but damn.

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Originally Posted by Basteala

Oh my God this is still going.

I get why, but damn.

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339 pages of complaints about the character that I'm 100% sure has NOTHING to do with her English VA, right? Because I can happily critique questionable VA work, but a 300+ page thread seems kinda... excessive?

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Originally Posted by Basteala

Oh my God this is still going.

I get why, but damn.

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It is still ongoing as of now because, as I have observed, some have yet to complete the story or may have just finished it, and they are posting in this thread to share their opinions.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

339 pages of complaints about the character that I'm 100% sure has NOTHING to do with her English VA, right? Because I can happily critique questionable VA work, but a 300+ page thread seems kinda... excessive?

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Her omnipresence in the story even when she isn't here, the fact that she didn't just took the light from the WoL like some have but totally overshadowed the importance of the WoL in the whole MSQ, the fact that she is close to the definition of a Mary Sue that don't learn anything but that she was always right and "being a little more confident in herself" that is the same as saying to a recruiter in an interview for you are a "perfectionist" as your "flaw". All that has nothing to do with the VA, that isn't the only dub in FFXIV, with many like myself that played either in VO or VF depending on the character I play.

For some, she is the reason they didn't liked the whole MSQ, which is one of the main point of FFXIV, so while excessive, I think it's quite understandable since it means for them 2 years of boring storyline to follow.

It's not a mystery if many are saying that the 7.2 is in the "right path", with Real Sphene connecting with the WoL rather than with Wuk Lamat, and her being artificially made less relevant, nearly absent of the whole MSQ ("oh, yeah I need to talk to those people about coming to Tuliyollal, I wasn't supposed to be the one Real Sphene would connect to make a parallel with AI Sphene and this wasn't changed at the very last moment because of the MSQ criticisms").

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

It is still ongoing as of now because, as I have observed, some have yet to complete the story or may have just finished it, and they are posting in this thread to share their opinions.

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God that's a mood. I can get that, though.

You can tell the people who've never played Genshin Impact by the people complaining about Wuk Lamat being 'omnipresent'. Because don't get me wrong, she was clingier than I'd like, but she's nothing compared to whatever Paimon was, and Paimon had genuinely the most ear-grating VA work humanly possible for almost 5 years.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

You can tell the people who've never played Genshin Impact by the people complaining about Wuk Lamat being 'omnipresent'. Because don't get me wrong, she was clingier than I'd like, but she's nothing compared to whatever Paimon was, and Paimon had genuinely the most ear-grating VA work humanly possible for almost 5 years.

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Well yes, I never played Genshin Impact, but from what I know, while the Lore is sometimes complimented, neither the general story nor the storytelling was renown in Genshin Impact, unlike FFXIV.

And even more from what I understand, this Paimon is more or like the "guideline NPC" basically the tutorial NPC, not unlike Navi in Ocarina of Time... so always being there is quite logical.

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

Well yes, I never played Genshin Impact, but from what I know, while the Lore is sometimes complimented, neither the general story nor the storytelling was renown in Genshin Impact, unlike FFXIV.

And even more from what I understand, this Paimon is more or like the "guideline NPC" basically the tutorial NPC, not unlike Navi in Ocarina of Time... so always being there is quite logical.

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The lore's surprisingfly interesting, the storytelling is kinda bad though, and said 'flying tutorial' repeats practically every single line AND had the most annoying, high-pitched voice humanly possible. To the point the entire fanbase was ecstatic about her eventually getting recast.

To me, that is the standard of bad VA work and character writing, so Wuk Lamat being a bit clingy and having a couple of flubbed lines is a relief by comparision. Don't get me wrong, I get why people might not like the shonen protagonist, it's an acquired taste, but crashing out for over 300 pages definitely raises an eyebrow.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

You can tell the people who've never played Genshin Impact by the people complaining about Wuk Lamat being 'omnipresent'. Because don't get me wrong, she was clingier than I'd like, but she's nothing compared to whatever Paimon was, and Paimon had genuinely the most ear-grating VA work humanly possible for almost 5 years.

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I don't see how that should make it any better for any of us, or why it matters. There are other threads, you don't have to post in every one of them, or force yourself to give any opinions. Her VA was awful. Whether it was the direction or their poor acting skills, the reality is the delivery was lacking. I switched to Japanese for the first time since I started playing in 2015. And as a Latin American, I am offended that instead of adding variation and flavor to the VA by hiring a LA actor (or someone with LA ancestry) to an expansion pretty much based on South America, they hired some person from Brooklyn to fake an obnoxious and stupid accent.

I just came back, after attempting for the 3rd time to finish that last trial at the end of 7.1, I finally pushed through, skimmed through the dialogues, and got into 7.2. I don't know what changed, but I could tell right away the writing got better. I'm fully glad that we finally get some time away from Wuk Lamat. I'm hoping 7.3 keeps her on the side.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

The lore's surprisingfly interesting, the storytelling is kinda bad though, and said 'flying tutorial' repeats practically every single line AND had the most annoying, high-pitched voice humanly possible. To the point the entire fanbase was ecstatic about her eventually getting recast.

To me, that is the standard of bad VA work and character writing, so Wuk Lamat being a bit clingy and having a couple of flubbed lines is a relief by comparision. Don't get me wrong, I get why people might not like the shonen protagonist, it's an acquired taste, but crashing out for over 300 pages definitely raises an eyebrow.

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I can understand but once again, one is the literal MC of the whole MSQ overshadowing our character in a game where even when out of the spotlight, they mattered at least a little (and not in Dawntrail) and the other is a guideline NPC that is annoying because guideline NPCs are annoying, like the Navi was in OOT. The only example that I know that is liked is Ghost in Destiny.

And the VA is just one of the problems and the least important for the vast majority of the people that didn't like Wuk Lamat - even more when I know you are talking only about the english version, and was more about direction than performance itself, something proven by the fact they remade some lines that were quite pathetic like the "Sphene, listen to me". And the french, german and japanese version are quite good.

You are focalising on that even if it's just one minor thing on the list of problems Wuk Lamat has or provoked.

I hope this has been mentioned before, but the title of this malingering thread is clearly false.

It completely neglects the miserable writing of many other characters, not to mention the meandering nothingness of the entire plot development, all of which made significant contributions to the ruination of the entire DT story.

Please stop giving Wuk Lamat more credit than she is due. The disaster of Dawntrail required the concerted effort of so many individuals, both fictitious and real, all of whom should share in the credit for this sad demise.

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

The lore's surprisingfly interesting, the storytelling is kinda bad though, and said 'flying tutorial' repeats practically every single line AND had the most annoying, high-pitched voice humanly possible. To the point the entire fanbase was ecstatic about her eventually getting recast.

To me, that is the standard of bad VA work and character writing, so Wuk Lamat being a bit clingy and having a couple of flubbed lines is a relief by comparision. Don't get me wrong, I get why people might not like the shonen protagonist, it's an acquired taste, but crashing out for over 300 pages definitely raises an eyebrow.

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This is FFXIV though and not Genshin and the treatment of this character in this expansion is completely out of the norm for how they present NPCs in this game. This game is the adventures of the Warrior of Light and is usually from their perspective. They usually are the ones interacting with the world. And they're also part of an ensemble cast where they and NPCs have their strengths emphasized and their weaknesses made up for by other cast members. Even the WoL doesn't usually overshadow everyone else the way Wuk Lamat did this expansion.

7.2's writing for her is much better because it lets her shine in the places that she's good at, and brings in the NPCs and WoL character for the places where they are good at. Usually our spot is the one hitting things really hard until they stop being bad but we're also pretty good at inspiring others and bringing people together.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

I call it Wuk no Jutsu. Everyone gets tempered by her and have no opposing views to her, or if they do, they vanish after a bit of a dose of good ol' wuk no jutsu. It causes villains to do 180's, it causes everyone to adore her and forget their own goals and co-exist within her world, even her brothers own passions and goals got erased and devoured by Wuk no jutsu's papa peace project.

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Now that is a good naming for it. God what happened? how did we go from shadowbringers to this??

7.3... No more talk about peace, no more tacos, no more Wuk Lamat...We're finally free.

The fact that wuk got bloody hands and passed out after hitting a barrier a few times felt like they were trying to downplay and course correct from the monstrosity they created.

How could a character who can rip through "rifts in realitee" then solo the final boss lose to a wall?

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Originally Posted by Oizen

The fact that wuk got bloody hands and passed out after hitting a barrier a few times felt like they were trying to downplay and course correct from the monstrosity they created.

How could a character who can rip through "rifts in realitee" then solo the final boss lose to a wall?

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She... didn't though? It was the Queen Eternal breaking down the Meso Terminal's inner space through her reckless use of Absolute Authority.

I never understood why people hated her accent. It's modeled after a Puerto Rican accent and she sounds like my Puerto Rican uncle.

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

She... didn't though? It was the Queen Eternal breaking down the Meso Terminal's inner space through her reckless use of Absolute Authority.

I never understood why people hated her accent. It's modeled after a Puerto Rican accent and she sounds like my Puerto Rican uncle.

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Yes it sounds like a white person trying to sound hispanic

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Yes it sounds like a white person trying to sound hispanic

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My uncle is the darkest skinned Puerto Rican imaginable and his accent sounds like hers.

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

She... didn't though? It was the Queen Eternal breaking down the Meso Terminal's inner space through her reckless use of Absolute Authority.

I never understood why people hated her accent. It's modeled after a Puerto Rican accent and she sounds like my Puerto Rican uncle.

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No point in trying to reason with someone who was clearly asleep during that sequence. Wuk Lamat bad, dont'cha know? Funnily Sena is Puerto Rican herself and she also sounds a lot like my own tias (wepa gente!).

She wouldn't even be so annoying if she wasn't represented by the fact that she has to be strong, she will be the queen, she knows everything. Plus seeing at the credits that Square Enix worked with DEI and Baby inc. then they hid this lmao. It's such an obvious pattern. Then you get quests like this;

- Speak to Wuk Lamat at the entrance to the Skydeep Cenote.
- Speak to Wuk Lamat.
- Speak to Wuk Lamat at the Gate of Remembrance.
- Speak to Wuk Lamat again.
- Speak to Wuk Lamat yet again.
- Speak to Wuk Lamat once more.

if this is a fun gameplay, then people have low standards. Even my friend who used to enjoy this game, found DT to be extremely boring so he just skipped all cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by LyrisAdamanteia

No point in trying to reason with someone who was clearly asleep during that sequence. Wuk Lamat bad, dont'cha know? Funnily Sena is Puerto Rican herself and she also sounds a lot like my own tias (wepa gente!).

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While the MSQ does indeed put me to sleep I do find that its hard to stay sleeping when Wuk Talks due to how grating it is. Plus its pretty racist that a white person is voicing a character that is clearly meant to be hispanic.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

While the MSQ does indeed put me to sleep I do find that its hard to stay sleeping when Wuk Talks due to how grating it is. Plus its pretty racist that a white person is voicing a character that is clearly meant to be hispanic.

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She’s Puerto Rican.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

While the MSQ does indeed put me to sleep I do find that its hard to stay sleeping when Wuk Talks due to how grating it is. Plus its pretty racist that a white person is voicing a character that is clearly meant to be hispanic.

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South-America / Latin America and Mainland Spain don't exist in Hydaelyn. Donald Duck might if they pull out the disney card and keyblades

Last I checked Hrotgars arent running around the real world and Tural is not an actual continent in the real world either

At the border, send her back with a no return order.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Veil

She’s Puerto Rican.

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Don'tcha know? Us latin folk can only be ambiguously brown, not like we were colonized by Spain a European nation after all, no ma'am. All latin folks are mestizo, no exceptions, no black, no white just brown. Either way its not like these folks care, they're here to spread an agenda.