Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

You are completly right that the so called casuals are in way higher numbers in every game but it happens in every game that if the so called hardcore players stop playing the game, it starts dying because the casuals lose their fun also since no one is farming the stuff they need or spends their gold/gil or what ever for their items and they also don't get carries anymore and can't do some content because of that. Games need both types of players but that doesn't mean that a casual player has to be lazy and just press 1,2,3.

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I think you missunderstood my point here and of course an game needs to have both types of players. Imo punishing people is not the right way to convince them to get better and banning people for an hour, if their dmg was not high enough, is just a very bad idea as it is, but the idea gets even worse, when you think about the fact that sometimes you are not at fault, since teammates can kill you during a few bossfights.

PS: I think everyone should try their best, but at the end of the day, we know some people don't care. Doesn't matter to them, if we think this is an bad attitude and Square Enix can do nothing, without hurting the budget of the game, to fix this. After all you can't force people to change.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Parsers are great for end game raiding, some would even say necessary. But for casual content it would be overwhelming and people would misunderstand and misuse them. Parsers are NOT a teaching tool, they are an optimising tool, and people need to stop treating them like they can teach newer or more casual people how to play.

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Yep, totally agree here.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Yes it's a game, but as you say the analysis is done after the fight as such if ppl don't care it's their own fault not the company or the game.
Since this is a multyplayer game it promotes ppl talking to each other to understand the game and become better if ppl don't do that that's I repeat their own damn fault

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I never sated otherwise, but when designing you have to take people's mentality into account. "Fault" is completely beside the point here.
Most players will NOT scour google for information on a fight or their class.
Usually only raiders do that, because we need the information in order to deliver adequate performance to kill stuff.

I personally consider it poor design if a game mandates me to go to 3rd party websites in order to play the game at a basic level. For advanced info and fine tuning? Sure. But not for the basics. These should be taught by the game itself. If not, why have a leveling phase in the first place? Why not dump every fresh char as 70 into the world?

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I never sated otherwise, but when designing you have to take people's mentality into account. "Fault" is completely beside the point here.
Most players will NOT scour google for information on a fight or their class.
Usually only raiders do that, because we need the information in order to deliver adequate performance to kill stuff.

I personally consider it poor design if a game mandates me to go to 3rd party websites in order to play the game at a basic level. For advanced info and fine tuning? Sure. But not for the basics. These should be taught by the game itself. If not, why have a leveling phase in the first place? Why not dump every fresh char as 70 into the world?

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TBF you don't really need external help to clear anything beside ultimate atm in the game. Dps checks are lax enough and mechanics are bordering to beign too showy.
True some jobs have it worse than other on how they work at max lvl, but no games really gives that much training wheel, some don't at all (soulsborne series) and wow for example tells you what your job does at the most basic level, after that you are on your own.

Problem is if we agree that SE doesn't know how to play this game, we can't really expect them to just tell us how to play the game only for then findining out that those rotation are utter garbage and ppl should follow player drivens one.
It's better if this is left up to us honestly.

But then again we can agree to disagree

There is one comment earlier I noticed that fits why I've seen in most mmos I've played.

People use every advantage possible, including third party tools, then complain the fight is too easy. Can't you just...not use those advantages? I'm sure the fights would be harder to clear then. If you want a challenge, why do you do everything possible to remove said challenge? Honest question.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

There is one comment earlier I noticed that fits why I've seen in most mmos I've played.

People use every advantage possible, including third party tools, then complain the fight is too easy. Can't you just...not use those advantages? I'm sure the fights would be harder to clear then. If you want a challenge, why do you do everything possible to remove said challenge? Honest question.

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Even I admit that Alte Roite and Catastrophe were easy. And I didn't use tools (PS4, unfortunately), so what are you speaking upon? Please explain this to me. How exactly would not using parsers provide a so-called challenge from a raiding perspective? Aside from not knowing the amount of damage you are doing, that is. I fail to understand how this makes the encounter itself more challenging.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Parsers are great for end game raiding, some would even say necessary. But for casual content it would be overwhelming and people would misunderstand and misuse them. Parsers are NOT a teaching tool, they are an optimising tool, and people need to stop treating them like they can teach newer or more casual people how to play.

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When I was a new player I really wanted something to help me measure my damage. As I progressed through levels I just never knew if I was doing well. Parsers certainly could have taught me a lot with regards to my rotations. I feel like this would have been especially true for DoT's which I underestimated and didn't really focus on keeping up. I might have also realized that things like Swiftcast aren't actually a DPS gain unless your spell has a longer cast time than recast time. Parsers can certainly be helpful at every level of gameplay. One might even argue that they would be more helpful at low level than at high level just because a newer player will make larger mistakes which would be more obvious in their DPS numbers.

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

I think you missunderstood my point here and of course an game needs to have both types of players. Imo punishing people is not the right way to convince them to get better and banning people for an hour, if their dmg was not high enough, is just a very bad idea as it is, but the idea gets even worse, when you think about the fact that sometimes you are not at fault, since teammates can kill you during a few bossfights.

PS: I think everyone should try their best, but at the end of the day, we know some people don't care. Doesn't matter to them, if we think this is an bad attitude and Square Enix can do nothing, without hurting the budget of the game, to fix this. After all you can't force people to change.
Yep, totally agree here.

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Oh i've never said to punish or ban them and i never will say that. I don't expect anyone to play perfect but i expect at least a bit of trying and accepting tips and having a bit of interest instead of plain pressing 1,2,3, rolling head over the keyboard or have this "you don't pay my sub" mindset. Nothing of that will ever happen as long as these players will still get their carries and SE doesn't offer tools that make them improve if they like it or not.

I mean you saw in the past how often people demanded nerfs for stuff that was not even close to extremly difficult just because they are to lazy to play their classes right.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

When I was a new player I really wanted something to help me measure my damage. As I progressed through levels I just never knew if I was doing well. Parsers certainly could have taught me a lot with regards to my rotations. I feel like this would have been especially true for DoT's which I underestimated and didn't really focus on keeping up. I might have also realized that things like Swiftcast aren't actually a DPS gain unless your spell has a longer cast time than recast time. Parsers can certainly be helpful at every level of gameplay. One might even argue that they would be more helpful at low level than at high level just because a newer player will make larger mistakes which would be more obvious in their DPS numbers.

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The number of players who can actually benefit from parsers as a teaching tool is incredibly low. You say that it would have helped you with your rotations, but it's not actually the parser doing that, it is you teaching yourself (presumably on a dummy) by experimenting and theorycrafing and seeing which rotations deal higher damage. The parser isn't actually teaching you how to play your job, it's just giving you a bit of additional information. Wanting to theorycraft is fine and all, but people have already done that extensively and you can find the resources online in job guides and job discussion. As I said, you are the 0.1% and 99.9% of new players would be completely tripped up by a number they shouldn't be looking at at that point in their learning process.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

The number of players who can actually benefit from parsers as a teaching tool is incredibly low. You say that it would have helped you with your rotations, but it's not actually the parser doing that, it is you teaching yourself (presumably on a dummy) by experimenting and theorycrafing and seeing which rotations deal higher damage, the parser isn't actually telling you how to play your job, it's just giving you a bit of additional information. Wanting to theorycraft is fine and all, but people have already done that extensively and you can find the resources online in job guides and job discussion. As I said, you are the 0.1% and 99.9% of new players would be completely tripped up by a number they shouldn't be looking at at that point in their learning process.

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Practicing rotations on a dummy doesn't bring you anywhere because you don't see which rotation deals more dps. You can hit a dummy to get your rotation into your head but not to see if its good if you don't see any numbers.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Practicing rotations on a dummy doesn't bring you anywhere because you don't see which rotation deals more dps. You can hit a dummy to get your rotation into your head but not to see if its good if you don't see any numbers.

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Practising rotations on a dummy with a parser open, that was the argument being made in regards to learning by theorycrafting