Gender locked race?

Lalafell fit the aesthetics you seem to desire. They can be designed to be very short and androgynous looking and fit the 'underdog' concept very well.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Lalafell fit the aesthetics you seem to desire. They can be designed to be very short and androgynous looking and fit the 'underdog' concept very well.

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"eyeroll"
you are a troll. lol

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

So I suppose the idea I should say is "less bulky" since it seems the idea of a more gender-neutral body shape is so vehemently shot down at any sort of opportunity.

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I think the issue people have to keep in mind is this is not just what they think is okay to exist but what they want to probably play as. So there are a few voices coming from just one person depending on how you approach the subject.

I don't mind if there were very feminine males, but I also want a more masculine Ronso like race (I'd take literally Ronso to be honest). Or if no Hrothgar I might be interested in a masculine lion-rabbit, but I wouldn't want to play a neutral/feminine male character. So if we have to fight over limited resources it might sound like "down with the idea of X" but it's more like "I want to see this instead".

At least personally :3.

I imagine if there are male Viera it's going to be that concept art from SE we've seen a bunch, or nearly like it (lean and muscular, like a gymnast body but taller lol).

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Lalafell fit the aesthetics you seem to desire. They can be designed to be very short and androgynous looking and fit the 'underdog' concept very well.

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https://i.gifer.com/ZTr9.gif

haha XD. :)

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Originally Posted by artyport

"eyeroll"
you are a troll. lol

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No, I'm not. You're specifically requesting a child-like aesthetic and such a thing already exists in-game. You're also repeatedly claiming that we can't have another 'bara' race because they already exist. Surely the same argument can be made for the aesthetics that you desire?

I'd also point out that many of the recent biggest releases outside of Japan have embraced masculine aesthetics to a significant degree. Aside from FFXIV doing just that outside of Othard/Hingashi, there's:

- Dragon Quest XI
- Monster Hunter World
- Resident Evil 2 Remake
- Devil May Cry 5
- Soul Calibur 6

Of those, two even had a crossover with a Western game. Geralt of Rivia showed up in Monster Hunter World and Soul Calibur 6. A number of upcoming Japanese titles are also set to follow a similar pattern. So it's a myth that there's very little appetite for such things over in Japan. They're not niche titles, either.

I think this entire thread is just people trying to use what they think they know to validate their hopes in getting what they want. If you think male Viera could be androgenous and still live in the forest and shoot bows and all that, more power to you.

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Originally Posted by artyport

There is no actual lore saying LALA need magical weapons or equipment to weild greataxes.
ALSO VIERA are an old race that lives long. Why wouldnt they have access to magical equipment as well.

My only point is using the the setting of where they come from to describe their physical appearance is silly.
If that were the case FEMALE Miqote would be much larger like female lions but they are not. THEY CUTE.

Xalea women are warriors of the steepe... but they are often cute.

IN ANIME and IN Final Fantasy your visual appearance dont really matter when it comes to physical prowess

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I feel you’re not grasping my point.

1) you specifically mentioned a high ranking Flames officer performing heroics.

2) I am not saying that to wield a heavier weapon that a lalafell or any of the smaller females must have magic augmentation. After all, the weapons are adjusted to their size. What I am saying is that you cannot discount the role magical gear and materia plays with the heroes. These are used specifically to augment the wielder.

3) The divergent physical and mental evolution of the races is a fact and ties into traits they found advantageous and attractive in their environments. You cannot simply discount these because it’s fantasy - that is awfully poor writing, and SE have never done this. You are taking exceptions and trying to present them as violations of this point when there are better alternative explanations to hand.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

No, I'm not. You're specifically requesting a child-like aesthetic and such a thing already exists in-game. You're also repeatedly claiming that we can't have another 'bara' race because they already exist. Surely the same argument can be made for the aesthetics that you desire?

I'd also point out that many of the recent biggest releases outside of Japan have embraced masculine aesthetics to a significant degree. Aside from FFXIV doing just that outside of Othard/Hingashi, there's:

- Dragon Quest XI
- Monster Hunter World
- Resident Evil 2 Remake
- Devil May Cry 5
- Soul Calibur 6

Of those, two even had a crossover with a Western game. Geralt of Rivia showed up in Monster Hunter World and Soul Calibur 6. A number of upcoming Japanese titles are also set to follow a similar pattern. So it's a myth that there's very little appetite for such things over in Japan. They're not niche titles, either.

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This is why you are going to be stuck with the title of TROLL for me.
I never asked for a child like aesthetic I asked for a young hero look.
LALAfell look like fat babies.. and by no means make sense for anything or anything I requested.
I just want to look like alphy. His body type does not exist in the game.

Also friday is on its way and we will see what happens.. either way I will play this game.. Cuz i do love my miqo.
see ya on friday troll.
T

Alphinaud is technically a child, though. At least by the standards of quite a few countries. He's also stuck in a time bubble that keeps him locked at the age of sixteen no matter how many years pass in the real world.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I feel you’re not grasping my point.

1) you specifically mentioned a high ranking Flames officer performing heroics.

2) I am not saying that to wield a heavier weapon that a lalafell or any of the smaller females must have magic augmentation. After all, the weapons are adjusted to their size. What I am saying is that you cannot discount the role magical gear and materia plays with the heroes. These are used specifically to augment the wielder.

3) The divergent physical and mental evolution of the races is a fact and ties into traits they found advantageous and attractive in their environments. You cannot simply discount these because it’s fantasy - that is awfully poor writing, and SE have never done this. You are taking exceptions and trying to present them as violations of this point when there are better alternative explanations to hand.

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I just fought along side some random lala in a fate wielding an axe dropping monsters twice her size.
I just think you are more willing to allow women to be more flexible in fantasy than men.
You have female viera who are describe as strong warriors.. however you dont care that they are walking around mostly nude. BUT MEN oh boy they live alone in the while and they have to be rugged? Come on.. Give me a break.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Alphinaud is technically a child, though. At least by the standards of quite a few countries. He's also stuck in a time bubble that keeps him locked at the age of sixteen no matter how many years pass in the real world.

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He has a point, alphinaud is technically a child I think hee's 16? in lore? and yoshida has said previously why the dev team wouldn't make child miqo's playable when requested, because it's uuuh well, I'll let someone else say it.

I forgot to mention job/class traits and powers. Anyway, I shall take a break from the thread until Fanfest as I believe this is becoming cyclical now. Better to return to discuss the matter further once I see what they’re doing.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Alphinaud is technically a child, though. At least by the standards of quite a few countries. He's also stuck in a time bubble that keeps him locked at the age of sixteen no matter how many years pass in the real world.

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I'm 5'7 and 110 pounds. I'm 30.
If I can have alphy's body so can my character thats all I'm gonna say.. about this.

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Originally Posted by artyport

I just fought along side some random lala in a fate wielding an axe dropping monsters twice her size.
I just think you are more willing to allow women to be more flexible in fantasy than men.
You have female viera who are describe as strong warriors.. however you dont care that they are walking around mostly nude. BUT MEN oh boy they live alone in the while and they have to be rugged? Come on.. Give me a break.

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If you wish to be petulant about it and fail to be able to separate game mechanics from lore, so be it. You’re not worth engaging any further.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I forgot to mention job/class traits and powers. Anyway, I shall take a break from the thread until Fanfest as I believe this is becoming cyclical now. Better to return to discuss the matter further once I see what they’re doing.

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Agreed! see you folks in a couple of days or so, happy bantering.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

If you wish to be petulant about it and fail to be able to separate game mechanics from lore, so be it. You’re not worth engaging any further.

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it was an npc... doesnt that count for lore?

Before I leave, this could be cool.

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What if they're not dropping hints for hrothgar since they dont TECHNICALLY exist on our shard? They could come from another shard that we'll see in SHB.

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Originally Posted by artyport

I'm 5'7 and 110 pounds. I'm 30.
If I can have alphy's body so can my character thats all I'm gonna say.. about this.

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Yeah 100% you can hope for that. I don't think you'll find many people wanting to be those proportions besides you though.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd also point out that many of the recent biggest releases outside of Japan have embraced masculine aesthetics to a significant degree. Aside from FFXIV doing just that outside of Othard/Hingashi, there's:

- Dragon Quest XI
- Monster Hunter World
- Resident Evil 2 Remake
- Devil May Cry 5
- Soul Calibur 6

Of those, two even had a crossover with a Western game. Geralt of Rivia showed up in Monster Hunter World and Soul Calibur 6. A number of upcoming Japanese titles are also set to follow a similar pattern. So it's a myth that there's very little appetite for such things over in Japan. They're not niche titles, either.

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Yeah, uhm... DQXI has a bishonen protagonist, Erik can also qualify as bisonen, not to mention Sylvando is particularily feminine, and those are 3 of 4 playable males. RE2 prettyfied Leon, reviews of DMC5 have explicitly used the word "twinks" to refer to the main characters. SC6 keeps Siegfried of the flowing locks, Mitsurugi, and Maxi, but removed THE bara daddy of the series, Rock (at least his body hair is still in CC). So, I wouldn't say "embraced masculitnity", in fact, in most of those games, the masculinity was always there: RE (Chris, since forever), MH (male hunters since, again, forever), DMC, SC (Rock, Mitsurugi, Algol...).

I mean, I'd rather male Viera were tall and decently built, but c'mon, man, you are deliberately stirring the pot :P

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Yeah 100% you can hope for that. I don't think you'll find many people wanting to be those proportions besides you though.

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Idk about that tons of people have requested young elezen

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Originally Posted by artyport

it was an npc... doesnt that count for lore?

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Last post - in terms of racial differences in traits? No, not really. There’s too many variables at play. It’s not making any statement in lore terms. Again, I am not discounting that a lalafell character could do that, but it’s silly to infer from that that SE means to suggest that any lalafell could or that, absent other factors, the average lalafell would be better at it than the average, say, roegadyn.

I doubt SE feel the need to comment on this, but it’s a bad habit of players to read more into mechanics than is there.

At any rate, see you all after fanfest.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Before I leave, this could be cool.

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I believe that's probable. If the leak about using the tower to travel through, and we milk the lion references from the trailer (kuribu's lore says they are made in the vision of people from another plane).

Would also make sense we haven't heard a lick of them until they've dropped pretty much (as you read in this thread "if they're real where are they, are they going to come out of no where?" evidently that might be a yes lol).

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Yeah, uhm... DQXI has a bishonen protagonist, Erik can also qualify as bisonen, not to mention Sylvando is particularily feminine, and those are 3 of 4 playable males. RE2 prettyfied Leon, reviews of DMC5 have explicitly used the word "twinks" to refer to the main characters. SC6 keeps Siegfried of the flowing locks, Mitsurugi, and Maxi, but removed THE bara daddy of the series, Rock (at least his body hair is still in CC). So, I wouldn't say "embraced masculitnity", in fact, in most of those games, the masculinity was always there: RE (Chris, since forever), MH (male hunters since, again, forever), DMC, SC (Rock, Mitsurugi, Algol...).

I mean, I'd rather male Viera were tall and decently built, but c'mon, man, you are deliberately stirring the pot :P

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They're all distinctly male though. Ranging from 'classically handsome' to 'ruggedly handsome'. Very few characters are outright androgynous or feminine to the degree that some are requesting within this thread and painting as much more common than they actually are. Masculinity is a broad spectrum and need not be fixed on the 'bara' side of the spectrum.

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Originally Posted by artyport

Idk about that tons of people have requested young elezen

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Tons? Some, sure. Though of those, a few appear to have dubious motives. Not in your case, since you've already clarified that you dig the 'young hero' aesthetic which is different.

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Originally Posted by artyport

Idk about that tons of people have requested young elezen

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I've honestly never seen it brought up before you lol. Some people perked up at the fanfest artist comment but that was because people assumed it meant the little bunny body type could be a thing.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

No, I'm not. You're specifically requesting a child-like aesthetic and such a thing already exists in-game. You're also repeatedly claiming that we can't have another 'bara' race because they already exist. Surely the same argument can be made for the aesthetics that you desire?

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It's pretty clear to me that they're just asking for slender/boyish aka what you see as the lead in nearly every JRPG and anime today. What you're telling them they actually want to play as is a tiny race of potato people, which this is not.
Body type they're asking for:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160212064216
Body type you're telling them is close:
https://data.whicdn.com/images/203941023/large.jpg

It's fine if you don't like or want that but it's not something that already exists in this game.

I think SE will just do whatever they please and lore and all that don't matter a lick in this game. They wanted more petite, cute girls so they made female Au Ra into that in spite of any lore reason. They wanted more tall edgy dudes so they made male Au Ra into that. They will do the same thing again if they want to.

That said, people can want something different regardless and I don't think they need to scan the lore to justify themselves. The only female races that look like THEY could use half the weapons in this game are femroes and maybe elezen but like, who cares? We've still got little lalafells out there guarding Limsa and female miqo'te acting as the protectors and hunters in their tribes. It's clear little in this game is modelled with 100% practicality and deep lore reasons in mind. If someone is a petite dude in real life and wants to play one in a game too why do they have to feel ashamed of that? And they're certainly not the first one in this thread to say the same thing.

[Also only like, the first half of this post was directed at the quote. The rest is a general response to the last ~5 pages of this thread.]

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Originally Posted by Theodric

They're all distinctly male though. Ranging from 'classically handsome' to 'ruggedly handsome'. Very few characters are outright androgynous or feminine to the degree that some are requesting within this thread and painting as much more common than they actually are. Masculinity is a broad spectrum and need not be fixed on the 'bara' side of the spectrum.

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When people are saying they want the male Viera to be large and muscular under the guise of "we don't need another small race" it pretty much boils down to the idea of bara.

I just want something on the opposite end. If we can't get the feminine and androgynous male at least give us a body shape that isn't a superhero. Lalafells are the only males in this game that don't have any sort of musculature. They're just fat and chibi.

But I guess I'm wrong for wanting a male that isn't toting wide shoulders and any semblance of a six pack. Glad to know that parts of this community are as closed minded as modern NA politics.

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Originally Posted by CoolDad

It's pretty clear to me that they're just asking for slender/boyish aka what you see as the lead in nearly every JRPG and anime today. What you're telling them they actually want to play as is a tiny race of potato people, which this is not.
Body type they're asking for:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160212064216
Body type you're telling them is close:
https://data.whicdn.com/images/203941023/large.jpg

It's fine if you don't like or want that but it's not something that already exists in this game.

I think SE will just do whatever they please and lore and all that don't matter a lick in this game. They wanted more petite, cute girls so they made female Au Ra into that in spite of any lore reason. They wanted more tall edgy dudes so they made male Au Ra into that. They will do the same thing again if they want to.

That said, people can want something different regardless and I don't think they need to scan the lore to justify themselves. The only female races that looks like it could use half the weapons in this game are femroes and maybe elezen but like, who cares? We've still got little lalafells out there guarding Limsa and female miqo'te acting as the protectors and hunters in their tribes. It's clear little in this game is modelled with 100% practicality and deep lore reasons in mind. If someone is a petite dude in real life and wants to play one in a game too why do they have to feel ashamed of that? And they're certainly not the first one in this thread to say the same thing.

[Also only like, the first half of this post was directed at the quote. The rest is a general response to the last ~5 pages of this thread.]

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Thank you!!

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

When people are saying they want the male Viera to be large and muscular under the guise of "we don't need another small race" it pretty much boils down to the idea of bara.

I just want something on the opposite end. If we can't get the feminine and androgynous male at least give us a body shape that isn't a superhero. Lalafells are the only males in this game that don't have any sort of musculature. They're just fat and chibi.

But I guess I'm wrong for wanting a male that isn't toting wide shoulders and any semblance of a six pack. Glad to know that parts of this community are as closed minded as modern NA politics.

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Lol. I don't think it's close minded to want something different than you. This isn't some gender politics talk, it's a forum about races in a video game. Of course some people want races that look strong for a fantasy game. You're not wrong for wanting anything but wanting the opposite of you doesn't make them wrong either.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

When people are saying they want the male Viera to be large and muscular under the guise of "we don't need another small race" it pretty much boils down to the idea of bara.

I just want something on the opposite end. If we can't get the feminine and androgynous male at least give us a body shape that isn't a superhero. Lalafells are the only males in this game that don't have any sort of musculature. They're just fat and chibi.

But I guess I'm wrong for wanting a male that isn't toting wide shoulders and any semblance of a six pack. Glad to know that parts of this community are as closed minded as modern NA politics.

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Yeah, you're probably not going to get a race that doesn't have a 'sixpack' or a somewhat 'defined torso'- which is honestly a weird thing to want since a character like that is going to be not only skinny but lacking any sort of muscle development - goes against Viera lore on that one. Flat, maybe - but super skinny plus underdeveloped/flat? Yeah, unless there's a 'scale' then I'm certainly on the 'heck no' brigade for that.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Glad to know that parts of this community are as closed minded as modern NA politics.

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That's a pretty loaded statement to make in regards to a disagreement over something as trivial as a fictional race in a fictional setting. I'm not even American, on that note.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

They're all distinctly male though. Ranging from 'classically handsome' to 'ruggedly handsome'. Very few characters are outright androgynous or feminine to the degree that some are requesting within this thread and painting as much more common than they actually are. Masculinity is a broad spectrum and need not be fixed on the 'bara' side of the spectrum.

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It's mostly that "masculine aesthetics" thing. Like, if masculinity is a broad specturm, then what are masculine aesthetics? (which, I mean, I know and agree with, I've written whole pieces about the gender spectrum, especially on how men's aesthetics and fashion has evolved since the friggin middle ages) I mean, I can understand not being fond of androgyny but saying that "recent games have embraced masculine aethetics", well...huh? Please elaborate on what those aesthetics are because on my end, the only thing those games have in common on the "masculine" side is that they star men... which is a given for most games out of Japan except, say, the Atelier series.

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Originally Posted by cicatriz313

Lol. I don't think it's close minded to want something different than you. This isn't some gender politics talk, it's a forum about races in a video game. Of course some people want races that look strong for a fantasy game. You're not wrong for wanting anything but wanting the opposite of you doesn't make them wrong either.

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Considering the extant that people go to on these forums it might as well be.

I mention the idea of wanting a smaller built male and a solid several people jump on board and start arguing against it immediately. I'm all up for debate and some solid conversation. But when people start resorting to dumb reasonings that contradict themselves in the game its pretty obvious.

I only think that the people that are calling miqo'te twinks or skinny are closed minded. Because miqo'te are neither of those things and its that group of people that's saying we have "too many small races."

I'm fine if people want the opposite. I'm not fine with people saying we have more lithe races than large races. There's 3 large races, 3 medium, and 1 small. So please do pardon me for being a little upset with the shoddy argument of "we need more large races" when we're more than covered on that.

The underlying issue is the limited code of the character creator and ancient style of coding they use. So until that gets up to date issues like this will never get resolved.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That's a pretty loaded statement to make in regards to a disagreement over something as trivial as a fictional race in a fictional setting. I'm not even American, on that note.

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You've only seen the tip of the iceberg of stuff Americans say my friend. I hear stuff heck of a lot worse on a daily basis.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Considering the extant that people go to on these forums it might as well be.

I mention the idea of wanting a smaller built male and a solid several people jump on board and start arguing against it immediately. I'm all up for debate and some solid conversation. But when people start resorting to dumb reasonings that contradict themselves in the game its pretty obvious.

I only think that the people that are calling miqo'te twinks or skinny are closed minded. Because miqo'te are neither of those things and its that group of people that's saying we have "too many small races."

I'm fine if people want the opposite. I'm not fine with people saying we have more lithe races than large races. There's 3 large races, 3 medium, and 1 small. So please do pardon me for being a little upset with the shoddy argument of "we need more large races" when we're more than covered on that.

The underlying issue is the limited code of the character creator and ancient style of coding they use. So until that gets up to date issues like this will never get resolved.

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Well you have to realize that whatever you think we have enough of doesn't matter to anyone else. Like you think there are too many big races and I happen to not like any of them and therefore there aren't enough for me. Honestly if you think you're being jumped on try being pro hrothgar in a Viera thread and get back to me.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

Considering the extant that people go to on these forums it might as well be.

I mention the idea of wanting a smaller built male and a solid several people jump on board and start arguing against it immediately. I'm all up for debate and some solid conversation. But when people start resorting to dumb reasonings that contradict themselves in the game its pretty obvious.

I only think that the people that are calling miqo'te twinks or skinny are closed minded. Because miqo'te are neither of those things and its that group of people that's saying we have "too many small races."

I'm fine if people want the opposite. I'm not fine with people saying we have more lithe races than large races. There's 3 large races, 3 medium, and 1 small. So please do pardon me for being a little upset with the shoddy argument of "we need more large races" when we're more than covered on that.

The underlying issue is the limited code of the character creator and ancient style of coding they use. So until that gets up to date issues like this will never get resolved.

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While it's fine to want a smaller built male, but you have to realise how unlikely that it is for a Viera male to be small when we already have an issue with Yoshida thinking that male Viera looks weird and is too 'cute' in regards to the concept art and 'cute' - they didn't even look cute. Anyway, if that wasn't sign enough that any male Viera we get isn't going to be small and petite then yeah.

For a small 'petite' race that has zero muscle development, you're better off petitioning for the character creator to be developed so that it can cater a wide range of differences between races from height/weight/muscle or to have another race come out in the future that fits it. Male Viera is just way too vicious and cold-blooded murderer to fit the 'cute trope' to where 'all of them' are small and petite with zero muscle development.

The only hope you may have is that the Viera male - if possible has a very good scale between the three mentioned aesthetics - height, weight and muscle. Or Hrothgar isn't as 'bara' as we think it is and we're being misled and falls into that elegant trope.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Yeah, you're probably not going to get a race that doesn't have a 'sixpack' or a somewhat 'defined torso'- which is honestly a weird thing to want since a character like that is going to be not only skinny but lacking any sort of muscle development - goes against Viera lore on that one. Flat, maybe - but super skinny plus underdeveloped/flat? Yeah, unless there's a 'scale' then I'm certainly on the 'heck no' brigade for that.

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Again, I'm up for compromise. You can still be in shape and not have a six pack. I'm not asking for something totally soft and underdeveloped. I just want something that isn't bulky and wider than a truck with a pretty face(which we can do already on every race)

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

While it's fine to want a smaller built male, but you have to realise how unlikely that it is for a Viera male to be small when we already have an issue with Yoshida thinking that male Viera looks weird and is too 'cute' in regards to the concept art and 'cute' - they didn't even look cute. Anyway, if that wasn't sign enough that any male Viera we get isn't going to be small and petite then yeah.

For a small 'petite' race that has zero muscle development, you're better off petitioning for the character creator to be developed so that it can cater a wide range of differences between races from height/weight/muscle or to have another race come out in the future that fits it. Male Viera is just way too vicious and cold-blooded murder to fit the 'cute trope' to where 'all of them' are small and petite with zero muscle development.

The only hope you may have is that the Viera male - if possible has a very good scale between the three mentioned aesthetics - height, weight and muscle. Or Hrothgar isn't as 'bara' as we think it is and we're being misled and falls into that elegant trope.

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In anime and Jrpgs
The cute badass is very very common..
stop trying to justify visuals based on a tiny amount of lore we have beeen given from one single source

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Originally Posted by artyport

In anime and Jrpgs
The cute badass is very very common..
stop trying to justify visuals based on a tiny amount of lore we have beeen given from one single source

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What are you even talking about? FF is one of the very few games that sticks to the lore of how a race looks. That's why each one has a restriction put in place to begin with o.O
It's not a 'screw you guys' it's just how they've always gone about it. So stop getting overly defensive about it. I'm saying you're not likely to get it because the developer has already shown a huge dislike for them to be cute + their official lore has them anything but cute.

It's not a jab, it's what we have.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Yeah, you're probably not going to get a race that doesn't have a 'sixpack' or a somewhat 'defined torso'- which is honestly a weird thing to want since a character like that is going to be not only skinny but lacking any sort of muscle development - goes against Viera lore on that one. Flat, maybe - but super skinny plus underdeveloped/flat? Yeah, unless there's a 'scale' then I'm certainly on the 'heck no' brigade for that.

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You really have to stop bringing up the lore as if it's an impending barrier for how the male viera have to look. The very first thing you must acknowledge is that female Viera are not only seen as the dominant gender in Viera society but as warriors in their own right, yet this does nothing to stop them from being the feminine icons they were designed to be. There is no reason to assume that the males must be exceedingly different on that end, it's ultimately up to the designer.

Even if we were to go purely off the lore, as it's been told to us, it could still go either way. We are told that they live a harsh lifestyle to an extent, yes, and that certainly leads credence to the idea of them growing to be quite masculine. Yet, we also know next to nothing about their physiology, and we're told that until puberty they're impossibly similar to the female Viera children. The changes they undergo after that point are, for the moment, completely left up to Square's interpretation.

Continuing to argue about it based on the lore we've been given is just silly. Better to just wait until JP Fanfest than to declare some glaring inaccuracy in the opinion of someone who you don't agree with. If we were exceedingly lucky we could even see some of the first clan dimorphism since Midlander and Highlander in order to meet some of these differing opinions, although that would be an unforeseen treat.

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Originally Posted by Thefates

You really have to stop bringing up the lore as if it's an impending barrier for how the male viera have to look. The very first thing you must acknowledge is that female Viera are not only seen as the dominant gender in Viera society but as warriors in their own right, yet this does nothing to stop them from being the feminine icons they were designed to be. There is no reason to assume that the males must be exceedingly different on that end, it's ultimately up to the designer.

Even if we were to go purely off the lore, as it's been told to us, it could still go either way. We are told that they live a harsh lifestyle to an extent, yes, and that certainly leads credence to the idea of them growing to be quite masculine. Yet, we also know next to nothing about their physiology, and we're told that until puberty they're impossibly similar to the female Viera children. The changes they undergo after that point are, for the moment, completely left up to Square's interpretation.

Continuing to argue about it based on the lore we've been given is just silly. Better to just wait until JP Fanfest than to declare some glaring inaccuracy in the opinion of someone who you don't agree with. If we were exceedingly lucky we could even see some of the first clan dimorphism since Midlander and Highlander in order to meet some of these differing opinions, although that would be an unforeseen treat.

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Yes, the designer/developer that has sadly stated that he thinks the male Viera is 'weird' and that he finds them to be 'too cute' - in regards to concept art that was anything but cute. This was the concept art where they had a very defined muscle development. I don't know, am I out of line for being for making that connection?

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

What are you even talking about? FF is one of the very few games that sticks to the lore of how a race looks. That's why each one has a restriction put in place to begin with o.O
It's not a 'screw you guys' it's just how they've always gone about it. So stop getting overly defensive about it. I'm saying you're not likely to get it because the developer has already shown a huge dislike for them to be cute + their official lore has them anything but cute.

It's not a jab, it's what we have.

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I guess I just disagree with you on that.
All we know about viera men is that they live alone and will shoot you for entering their neighborhood without warning and that you never see them.

Idk how you can determine there musculature from that