I wouldn't mind FFXIV becoming a WoW clone in the casual/hardcore appeal if...

You know what I think? EVERY GAME IS A COPY OF SOME OTHER GAME!!

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You know what I think? EVERY GAME IS A COPY OF SOME OTHER GAME!!

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Quoted for Truth ^.^

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Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

No you dont win the thread, but you do get a Cookie!!

Also i don't know why people get their panties up in a bunch, was XI based on EQ ? Yes! Is that bad ? No!

But i guess there are always fanboys that wanna make XI more than what it was.... O well

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THat's mean. Cookie.... Humpf. I may be borderline diabetic and may not be able to enjoy cookies for very long. I been hitting 190-220 and takign longer to drop. Going to be stuck with rice crackers.

There is a tad of EQ in XI but not much.

THere is lag in WOW, I guess not many mutiboxed If playign two accounts and you have a mule tag along there is delay, just like there was delay in FFXI, suprisngly there wasn't more lag on XI.

The AI in XI shined, the story shined. THe interface would seem odd to WOW players, but not to other mmo players before wow.
The AI in wow had extremly limited paths. It chaced to yoru point on the map. IF you strayed outside a radius, reset to it's limited area.

THe AI in FFXI (As it progressed) had several hundred times the radius, and ability to create it's own track, go around obsticles, based on how it was made to track based on the core AI design. IF it was site and you went invis, it lost track after several feet. SO mobs did not desapwn and tracked back, some despawned since it may have tracked you clear across a map.

FOr an older game, it had the better AI system. BEtter story system. Harder questign rather then a majority within a limited area.

I hope SE doesn't simplify things to a point where the challenge is gone, people are lazy, don't read quest objectives, and point A to point B to much. The leves are getting to be that way, so the story lines, GC's and now FC missions will be what makes it better.

Xi got simplified due to age and to try to make it easy for those used to games like wow. Addign objectives on maps and radar, coffers , and easier progression. Old school XI was much harder then wow, and unless you played that period, you would never have gone into playing wow and found it as challenging.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

To be fair, you can't judge the community based off of the official forums.

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To be fair I based it off playing wow, and playing XI. I typically bounced to not get burned out.

I base it off years on both games through all there addons, additions and patches. Not becuase everyone else plays the game, or which had more locked in players that couldn't afford multiple MMO's.

I have active WOW, XI, XIV, EVE, ST:O, Rift and now GW2 accounts.

After reading most of the posts here I can summarize:

WoW endgame is easy, if you know what you're doing.
FFXI endgame is easy, if you know what you're doing.
Wow endgame, pre-nerf, was super hard (but easy, if you knew what you were doing *and had the right gear*).
FFXI endgame, pre-nerf, was super hard (but easy, if you knew what you were doing *and had the right gear*).
If you had to tank endgame, WoW was a snooze-fest. Because you didn't have to know "much" about what to do.
If you had to tank endgame, FFXI was a snooze-fest. Because you're skill rotations were easy and you didn't have to know "much" about what to do.

Of course, no mention of different play styles for different roles. Some mention of how FFXI was just "tank and spank" (regardless of that term largely surfacing from WoW). No mention at all (surprise) of how Blizzard cannibalized their own content in favor of pushing new players to the end just to get them into raiding*. But to be fair, FFXI just cannibalized themselves due to Abyssea.

*supporting statement: I leveled a dps mage (which i admit is an easy role to play in an mmo) from 1 to 84 in a week in Cataclysm. I play casually. I just used Dungeon Finder. Parallel this to my first character, a 67 druid, which I started half way through the launch of TBC and it took me weeks to get a good leveling groove. However, my druid had more experience of the game itself (pvp, world maps revealed, quests completed, total gold). No one can deny that blizzard was the first to admit (without words) that all of their creative focus was in their endgame. Which, in my book, gets some points knocked off.

Because I would feel bad for all those months of development that just gets passed over.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

No one can deny that blizzard was the first to admit (without words) that all of their creative focus was in their endgame. ... Because I would feel bad for all those months of development that just gets passed over.

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except they redesigned almost every map in azeroth for cata. that isn't for the benefit of endgame. they redesigned skill trees. that isn't for the benefit of endgame. they redesigned instanced questing. that isn't for endgame, either. and last but not least- they made it so the vast majority of quests in any new zone tied to an instance also tied in with the lore of the area and the story involving that instance. you know what that isn't for? endgame.

so i'm not sure where you're getting the impression they've 'admitted' ALL of their creative focus was on endgame. especially when they make the game increasingly welcoming to casual players with each expansion. do casual players participate in endgame? yes, they do. but only casually.

what does that mean? simple. it means most of their creative focus goes toward appeasing the casual player, whether that player is scrounging around maps with archaeology, grinding dungeons for xp, questing, or pugging RAIDS with their content finder. as you can see- endgame is only part of the equation.

Blizzard has lowered raised lowered raised dungeons and endgame, So has SE with XI (now concidered lower except specific new ones). Xi was redoen to be easier so new players can get through content faster, in the old days the game was very hard.

Drop rates need to change it's a tad rediculous in XIV right now. Maybe easier to gain tokens to get gear through fights.

But fights can't be to easy, Guruda and a coupel others are still a pain, but players are better now. Balance is the key. THen again Yoshi has hinted at doign away with the ability to simply tank run through a dungeon area and mobs will not simply retunrn as easy. As logng as it's not to hard.

my apologies if this sounds harsh or rude, but if you want a WoW clone, just go play WoW

So if you want a Xi clone go play XI ? That's how it works ?

And if you want a clone of yourself, just be yourself!

I love the "If you want WoW, go play WoW" shit that people throw around. Now, this is gonna blow your fucking minds, but get this: You can do things similar to other MMOs without "cloning" them. You can adjust or improve them to make them your own. Games like WoW have some very good ideas that would work quite well in FFXIV. So far though it seems like people will shoot down just about every idea simply based on the fact that WoW has it, with no regard for what the actual idea is.

Know what I'd love to see in this game? An auction house. Guess what WoW has? An auction house. But I guess since WoW has an auction house, we can't have one in FFXIV because we'd just become another herpity derp derp WoW clone right?

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Know what I'd love to see in this game? An auction house. Guess what WoW has? An auction house. But I guess since WoW has an auction house, we can't have one in FFXIV because we'd just become another herpity derp derp WoW clone right?

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Well to be fair, auction houses have existed before WoW.

Usess ideas from various games is different from cloning one single title. THere is the difference.

Auction houses are not orginal to WOW, wow adopted that. XI had AH as well, and some aspects of it should return while other aspects should be improved on. Regular FF games even had action houses before MMO's truely emerged. DId WOW CLone EQ or FF games in that manner?

The raid system in wow isn't suffcient for new MMO's.

The story system of wow is weak.

The AI in WOW is weak. If you understood how npc's follow such a limited point to point plotted path and limited radius of tracking, it would be clear.

Sure a better UI, that is coming. An adapted console form as well.

Wanting a clone of another companies title isn't the target. SE is trying to please some of those gamers, but they can't sacrifice itself for an outdated standard.

Using aspects that work is one thing, straight cloning them all is sacrficing evolotion of mmo's.

Making things to simple won't work. Neither will to hard.

FFXIV needs to be like Final Fantasy, it's lore, it's style, not WOW's. Battles are battles, WOW didn't great those either. Technically instanced (loaded fscripted fights) exisited in XI before hand just in a different name. They came complete with nice Custscnes and story lines to tie it all together.

I hope SE doesn't sacrifice to much to please others, because to close of a clone to how wow is, would only hurt them. Adapting interface is hardly cloning.

Here is the differences between wanting XIV to be more liek XI versus WOW.

XI is FInal Fantasy. XIV is final Fantasy. Most of the XI fans want to migrate to XIV. IT will sahre the lore, style, and ideas.

WOW is not FInal Fantasy. Not by a long shot. IF you want a WOW clone or WOW game in the new era, push Blizzard to stop making addons and to make a new title with a better engine. They have the money, finaces and ability. It could be a game with a better story line that pulls you into it. THen redesign the UI further, because it still needs some work.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

Here is the differences between wanting XIV to be more liek XI versus WOW.

XI is FInal Fantasy. XIV is final Fantasy. Most of the XI fans want to migrate to XIV. IT will sahre the lore, style, and ideas.

WOW is not FInal Fantasy. Not by a long shot. IF you want a WOW clone or WOW game in the new era, push Blizzard to stop making addons and to make a new title with a better engine. They have the money, finaces and ability. It could be a game with a better story line that pulls you into it. THen redesign the UI further, because it still needs some work.

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Blizzard has openly announced several times that they have a new MMO coming out, currently only called "Project Titan".

Also, you don't see the bigger picture here. SE does not simply want to cater to FFXI veterans, they are after the big audience this time and if it means pissing off FFXI vets this time, then so be it. Even back during 1.xx's development phase, Tanaka expressed that they wanted FFXIV to be completely different from FFXI, giving you a new experience. That concept didn't go too far. Yoshida still expresses that idea and is definitely making that happen. 2.0 is definitely different than FFXI in many ways, which was their original goal.

This is the direction they are taking and FFXI veterans have two choices. One, they can either suck it up and work with the new system, or two, they can go back to FFXI (Which is getting an expansion pack by the way.), and continue playing that. I am a veteran of FFXI myself (2003-2010), and I say that change is good. I do foresee FFXIV reaching the numbers it desires, but I have a feeling it will be from a lot of non-FFXI players going into it.

The only thing thats "Copying" from WOW is Jump ( which is in nearly MMO out there) and the UI. Those are the only 2 things that's coming from wow. ( We don't know much about the Quest system to say its copying.. in fact its hard to make an MMO without Quests/Missions, But the Quests itself offer Different storylines and not a copy of other storylines.

Graphics are not Cartoony like WOW is, Characters are sooo not 2004 like WOW is. Everything else I can't say since we don't have enough info to judge that ( Like Dungeon Raids etc).

In short, Somethings are kinda "need" to be copied from other games.. because there is simply Zero way around it. Something that every MMO needs ( the basics) to survive.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

The only thing thats "Copying" from WOW is Jump

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World of Warcraft invented jump.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

World of Warcraft invented jump.

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And that's why I said "Copying from WoW" >.>. Who Invented the "Non-Jump" Atari? XD

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Blizzard has openly announced several times that they have a new MMO coming out, currently only called "Project Titan".

Also, you don't see the bigger picture here. SE does not simply want to cater to FFXI veterans, they are after the big audience this time and if it means pissing off FFXI vets this time, then so be it. Even back during 1.xx's development phase, Tanaka expressed that they wanted FFXIV to be completely different from FFXI, giving you a new experience. That concept didn't go too far. Yoshida still expresses that idea and is definitely making that happen. 2.0 is definitely different than FFXI in many ways, which was their original goal.

This is the direction they are taking and FFXI veterans have two choices. One, they can either suck it up and work with the new system, or two, they can go back to FFXI (Which is getting an expansion pack by the way.), and continue playing that. I am a veteran of FFXI myself (2003-2010), and I say that change is good. I do foresee FFXIV reaching the numbers it desires, but I have a feeling it will be from a lot of non-FFXI players going into it.

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THey want to capture some of the various players yes, but the fact still remains, most of those who have supproted them, are XI vetererns and Japanee players, and it is very doubtfull SE will alienate us for the possbility of others. We are former, and current FF MMO players, The go play another game comment doesn't work, becuase we are playing the 2 games we support as well as the company we stood beind for previous work. Others excpeting the game to change to match another companies game becuase they want a new version of it isn't realistic. A japanese MMO style may not be for them if they are wanting the developers to create a title other then what they invision.

OTher then Jump, which actually was featured efore in other titles. A UI that can be pulled up in seperate windows and moved for easier use. It wil lstill be Final Fantasy. IF players want WOW type basic questing, stories, and depth, then there is wow. IF they want FF story, lore and depth, then their is FF.

Sure with GW2 there is more challenges out there. With other upcoming titles as well. What can not happen is please WOW players over FF supproters and fans when WOW players more likely are not going to stick by them and have expectations.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

WOW is not FInal Fantasy. Not by a long shot. IF you want a WOW clone or WOW game in the new era, push Blizzard to stop making addons and to make a new title with a better engine. They have the money, finaces and ability. It could be a game with a better story line that pulls you into it. THen redesign the UI further, because it still needs some work.

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the UI is fine. industry leading, actually. lern2mod, kiddo. as far as the rest, i'm getting really tired of repeating myself since you don't seem to respond to logic/reason, but here goes:

the reason your argument sounds completely idiotic is because you keep using the "go play WoW" defense without seeing how retarded it is. without seeing how it creates a double standard, since you keep beating off rift and ffxi. so let's try this one last time-

if your logic holds, and anyone who defends wow should go play wow... please cancel your account and never post here again. go play rift or ffxi and begone.

if you don't think that's fair or don't feel it in your heart to acquiesce, then you acknowledge the flaws in your logic and should thereby shut the hell up and never base an argument on this fallacious "go play ______" drivel again.

dig?

or troll on, i guess. that's probably what will happen.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

THey want to capture some of the various players yes, but the fact still remains, most of those who have supproted them, are XI vetererns and Japanee players, and it is very doubtfull SE will alienate us for the possbility of others.

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Why not? Its not like there isn't FFXI still to play. It is still up and running strong. Why not make a new game that caters to a whole new player base? They have no reason to cater to you. They want to make a game for everyone, not just FFXI players. How do you expect the game to be a massive success if they only cater to a niche group?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Well to be fair, auction houses have existed before WoW.

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As has jumping, unit frames, action bars and pure vs hybrid rhetoric.

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If players want WOW type basic questing, stories, and depth, then there is wow. IF they want FF story, lore and depth, then their is FF.

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I've always wanted a little of both. My perfect MMORPG has FF storylines and jobs, and WoW class dynamics and encounter mechanics. SE has the potential to give me both of these things with XIV.

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Sure with GW2 there is more challenges out there. With other upcoming titles as well. What can not happen is please WOW players over FF supproters and fans when WOW players more likely are not going to stick by them and have expectations.

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Now you're using a variant of the "omg if t3h contenz iz 2 ez peeple r leev3" garbage. As someone who has been around the block, I'll tell you this: people don't leave because of lack of content or getting everything done quickly. People leave because: a) they get sick of ongoing problems in the game despite bringing it to the attention of the creators (Cataclysm's broken PvP and Warhammer Online's Bright Wizard fiasco come to mind), b) stagnation in overall development (post-WotG FFXI being the posterchild of this), c) idiotic changes and overhauls for the sake of changing things (Cataclysm's class design and balance being the perfect example), d) utter lack of foresight accompanied with complete disregard for the playerbase (one of the big problems in Old Republic).

If 2.0 launches with minimal problems or at least as best as it can, and SE plays their cards right by marketting and advertising the hell out of 2.0, I think it'll be fine. If 2.0 comes out with the 1-50 quest climb and no endgame at all, broken PvP and buggy gameplay, it'll die a second death.

I've probably been around the block a bit more. Even before the WWW was main stream, I played early versions of MMo's, even tho texted based and 2d simpliifed. I've seen the evolution from the core. Even before Ultima was concidered the new revolution.

You can capture new base withotu sacrificing, and trying to be more liek WOW would not be an evoltuion in MMO's butt stepping backwards. To many are on an outdated wow kick. To pull gamers from it, it needs to offer something new, not old. To be different, refreshing. To remain Final Fantasy, which it has been made clear, is the priority, and Yoshida has stated that clearly, that they will not sacrifice the core of what it is, even if they may adapt some minor aspects from other titles mechanics.

They are also not trying to have the same generic user base. OR loose fans of Final Fantasy to become something else.

He also has clearly stated loosing fans trust was the issue and regaininng it is their priority. It's ok to balance things, ad a bit of other games, but straight up copyign to much would damage the franchise and they won't do that to please another fan base. Peopel who enjoy final Fantasy stories and style come to play for that reason.

UI familiarlarity would be nice, but many games use that now. However a clean, functional UI would work better.

Raids need to evolve. CHallenge needs to evolve, not to hard for everyone with alternatives to getting gear over time, and not easy, easy is a bore.


AI must be strong, not basic like WOW. SMarter then rifts. XI offfered challenge in the old days, but the past coupel years it was toned down to please casual gamers, and it took away from the difficulty to much. Mobs no longer tracked great distances, were not ahrd to shake. Except a few. It's liek someoen turned off their brains.

I wouldn't midn a system where you ran raids, got coins, traded for gear. Then retraded gear with more coins or items to upgrade the gear to the next tier. Requirign you to have the orginal set. THen at the third tier, materia or stats could be further added for it's full potential.


WOW is old. SUre it still has a large fan base that jsut settles for what it is because so many friends play it. YEt some peopel want new, and still want FInal FAntasy, not wow, not EQ, not rift, but their lore. XI is old as well, there are aspects that shoudl return fro ma previous FF game to XIV, and others that jsut didn't work out that certainly need to not be concidered.

Any way it is still FFXIV, and wantign to please WOW gamers and make it like wow is NOT a smart idea, let blizzard make their new title. Their is more pressure on them to do just that. Hopefully They will evolve and not jst have a graphically better version of the current game, but some real nice story elements.

Kaz.... Seriously let's talk facts only :cool:

If there where millions upon millions and MILLIONS! Of people that only wanted to play a Final Fantasy Online! Guess what ? They would have played FFXI! Surprise! They did NOT!

Final Fantasy has sold over 100 MILLION Copy's! Yet their MMO version only saw up to 500 THOUSAND! Guess what % is that ? ONLY from the Final Fantasy Fan Base ? Sure you can say that MMO'S where not "Cool" or "Mainstream"(Even tho EQ brought the MMO Genre to the mainstream before WoW ever did) but for argument sake, lets say it was like that, fast foward to 2010.... FFXIV Releases..... And it only shipped 650K copies... NOT EVEN SOLD! Just shipped, Out of 100 Million people that have ever bought a final fantasy tittle only less than 400 thousand bought the online version.....

See SE cannot even sell Final Fantasy Online with Brand Name alone..... They sold XIII and XIII-2 by pure brand name... yet their online version was passed... Wonder why ?

Maybe most final fantasy fans just DO NOT GIVE A FLYING ***** About final fantasy online ? I mean they have tried 2 times... and both cannot compare to an offline Final Fantasy as far as sales and support from the fan base, even when MMOS have been doing really great. Makes you think huh ? :rolleyes:

Well regardless if it's only 2 million 500k.. heck even 250k is a decent size population for an MMO, as long as they sell and retain at least 250k out of those who buy, then this game will be successful. It doesn't matter if those who don;t buy it because its online, because Online isn't for everyone. FF has always been Offline till XI came along and then XIV.. but Offline MMOs just seem to be more popular over the MMO market, however, like I said if they can retain 250k subs then this game will be alright to stand on its own 2 feet and be successful.

See here is where you, SE, and myself Disagree. SE from the get go did not want a FFXI-2, that is a fact, we can talk and guess all we want, but they did not intend XIV to be a XI-2 Period. They wanted to compete, in fact they even said it themselves "The new FF will compete with the likes of WOW and the new starwars MMO", they did not spend tens and tens of millions of dollars to create a MMO, just to cater to the XI type of player, sorry that is not the case at all, and the sooner some of us realize that, the better we will be off. Now can XIV be successful with 250K ? Yes, but that would be way in the long run, as XI did in the meanwhile it will be looked upon as another failure, while games like Swotor(Even if it does goes FP, they have already made a killing on boxes and months of having 1 million + subs) GW2(Alone had 1+million Pre-orders and has had a very successful launch) Pandaria wich will sell millions of copies, and revitalize the wow population again(As it has been the case every single time) will have 100% more success than SE will with the XI outdated model. Yoshi who i do not agree most of the time with on how he does things, see's this and has stated that he wants to bring more Final Fantasy to the game, while at the same time, bringing the game up to par with the current generation of MMOS..... On that i agree with him, i just don't like what his "Bringing more Final Fantasy to the game" means, for what i have seen is just simply to take something from a FF game and transplant it into this one w/o any regard to lore or mechanics, to me every single final fantasy is different from the previews one, and only battle mechanics, and characters like CID, Moogles, summons etc etc have been transfered over, but when you start taking elements of the main series and just patching them up like an abomination together and call it "Final Fantasy" that is just wrong.

Will 2.0 be a success ? Who knows, from my point of view, they have failed on their so called flood, as the underdog, they had to outdo everybody in every department, this whole secrecy and playing down because they are flat out scared about what the public might or might not especulate is pretty damm stupid, when 99% of the MMO Community sees this game as a joke(And yes they did win that w/e award nobody cares for i know).

What i want to see from him and his game, is BALLS! I want him to answer tough question, or just answer them, w/o dancing around in every interview and telling "Well you gonna have to wait yet again, i cannot talk on this or that or that other stuff my player base wants to know" I want him to tell us: "Hey! Pvp wont be at released, because we want to make sure that when we release it, it will be as balanced as possible, we are also working on battlegrounds, and this is what they are gonna work, and there he goes and lays down a plan and a vision we can get behind" Same with PVE: "Crystal tower will not be on release, and what i mean by that is, the finished version of what i envision crystal tower to be, will not be released when 2.0 launches, whoever the istance/raid itself will be launching on 2.0 and players can explore and tackle up to X number of floors, where at reaching X level of the tower, they will face a very fun and dynamic boss fight, that will reward players for their efforts, my vision of crystal tower is an evolving one, with us adding content every Y amount of time, but do not worry, for the game will launch with Y number of NEW dungeons, all different from one another, and will have to be tackled differently from each other, also the old dungeons will be transfered with an entire overhaul to match the new storyline."

Something like that, see that is what i want from him, some vision, a GOAL! Not "Sorry cannot talk just hope this is not just a map overhaul and we call it GG".

@OP OR who!


ur post is rather two sided u start off with yeah id like 80% casual content. then u finish with there will be no long term enjoyment if casual


1st With all due respect ffxiv will never be a wow clone. if u want to play wow then go play wow. SE has
been making rpg's 25+ years, wow clone? naa not likely.


2nd As far as casual content goes. casual players arnt built for mmo's. thats a fact! if ur going to whine
and cry about grinding u shouldnt be on an mmo, u might as well go on COD and complain about haveing to shoot at stuff. yeah thats about how stupid it is to complain about grind in a mmo, it makes no sence, there are plenty of games u can play and finish in 4 hours or so that can maintain ur "casual play".


3rd im a xi vet. atm xiv is crazy easy, and u know what? ppl still complain, lvlin on xiv is no where as long as xi u know why xi has been running for years. it wasnt built over night. no casual player or hardcore player will have a good time in the short run right? so how are you going to have a longrun if every thing is casual and then u say content shouldnt be spead up, well guess what if everything is casually short thats what is going to be needed " moar content" other wise ppl will be complaining. "they have nothing to do"


the ppl with the dedication to appreciate the system of xi was the hardcore players.
you want casual? play xiii xiii-2 skyrim, mmo's arnt built for casual players, you can play but you cant get mad at someone else who plays regularly and has items in the game that the casual player will have to turn to a regular player to get but refuses bc of "grind",


Hell! This is why i play!

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And yes they did win that w/e award nobody cares for i know

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Meh I didn't care to read the whole thing but I will respond to this line in particular. 80 some comments out of like 200k+ Votes (just assume 200k did vote) doesn't Constitute that "Nobody care" and 1/4th were Surprised 1/4th thinks this game deserves it, and 1/2 are troll responses ( Out of the 80 or so comments). So in the end, Neither of us can say that the Award is pointless or not.

Anyways this is the last thing I will respond to in this thread since "Wow clones or clones in General is just a silly topic to talk about) :P.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

He also has clearly stated loosing fans trust was the issue and regaininng it is their priority. It's ok to balance things, ad a bit of other games, but straight up copyign to much would damage the franchise and they won't do that to please another fan base. Peopel who enjoy final Fantasy stories and style come to play for that reason.

UI familiarlarity would be nice, but many games use that now. However a clean, functional UI would work better.

Raids need to evolve. CHallenge needs to evolve, not to hard for everyone with alternatives to getting gear over time, and not easy, easy is a bore.

I wouldn't midn a system where you ran raids, got coins, traded for gear. Then retraded gear with more coins or items to upgrade the gear to the next tier. Requirign you to have the orginal set. THen at the third tier, materia or stats could be further added for it's full potential.

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as anyone who has played xiv can see there is no copying! of story>monsters>areas or content, SE is origanal and has good writers and dev;s we know this.... as far as the UI im glad its being adapted mayhaps the wow heads will be quite now xD lol but haveing a universal UI is nothing new and no where near copying, battlefield 3 COD and MW have simular UI's it makes it easyer for the fps freaks to play all the fps GEN's without complaining about and haveing to learn a new UI setup ......

as far as raid's if u played xi u know SE knows how to set up raid/EndGame content.. its nothing new! dynamis sky>sea>nyzul isle> all epic EndGame and Raid content on xi.

Ostia.

No FF fan gives about WOW, Blizzard and how many players they have. Some gamers don't like WOW. FFXI for those of us who have played for years, includign BEFORE WOW EVER EXISTED. Understand. Those of us like myself who have played wow, through all the expansions, don't want FFXIV to be like WOW. THe differences are why we play BOTH. If we want more WOW, we wil go play WOW for those periods we need that fix. Nto a WOW clone, or WOW wannaabe.

There are plenty of issues with WOW, and issues that should NEVER be copied.

There are good aspects in WOW, that can be adapted, but should be improved apon since WOW itself is outdated, and even blizzard knows the time has come for a new title and engine so they can expand it.

IF gamers want better graphics, deeper stories, and a new MMO they can try XIV, if they don't like it they can play WOW, GW2, RIFT, or many other titles to get somethign different. THe old days of XI could be very intense, and I had to take months off to chill from it, and play WOW, AION (GAG) and other games.

They were different, so it was a nice change. FF is very different, and needs to remain unique. Sure toss in Jump, but make it functional, and not a gimick.

Change to UI to be familiar to other MMO's, but make it more functional and not a mess. Functional over a jumbled boxed mess. Short keys over clicking. Fade out to not obstruct from the deeper story elements in FF games.


XIV is low right now becuase it is beign redone. There is alot missing from it. It can be a tad easy and needs the hardcore aspect (but not rediculous aspects) to return. More depth, more stats, and fun challenges for your groups. Not just a typical, over done, same old same old Raids. Varied quests that take you around the world, and not just around the corner of the map. The leves are a msall portion of the game. You can level by leve or small quest, grind, or combo in with larger story missions. Other jobs is more borign because you can't repeat all of the reg quests (can in other regions however).

Yoshida want to apeal to othe r gamers but he sated "We must make it up to the fans of Final Fantasy".

THe failure was due to the engien used (based on CHrystal tools) which is nto sutable for MMO's but was meant for XIII and XIII-2.

The same as they took the new upcoming engine, had that team take aspects of it, and redesign it for the purpose of an MMO. It is us fans, that were the most dissappointed, and loudest to shout "WTF!"

As well as give them support, to stick through it with them, and help it grow. While they may want to apeal to others, those others who are so stuck on WOW, are not the ones that will stick it through.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kazaran

Ostia.

No FF fan gives about WOW, Blizzard and how many players they have. Some gamers don't like WOW. FFXI for those of us who have played for years, includign BEFORE WOW EVER EXISTED. Understand. Those of us like myself who have played wow, through all the expansions, don't want FFXIV to be like WOW. THe differences are why we play BOTH. If we want more WOW, we wil go play WOW for those periods we need that fix. Nto a WOW clone, or WOW wannaabe.

There are plenty of issues with WOW, and issues that should NEVER be copied.

There are good aspects in WOW, that can be adapted, but should be improved apon since WOW itself is outdated, and even blizzard knows the time has come for a new title and engine so they can expand it.

IF gamers want better graphics, deeper stories, and a new MMO they can try XIV, if they don't like it they can play WOW, GW2, RIFT, or many other titles to get somethign different. THe old days of XI could be very intense, and I had to take months off to chill from it, and play WOW, AION (GAG) and other games.

They were different, so it was a nice change. FF is very different, and needs to remain unique. Sure toss in Jump, but make it functional, and not a gimick.

Change to UI to be familiar to other MMO's, but make it more functional and not a mess. Functional over a jumbled boxed mess. Short keys over clicking. Fade out to not obstruct from the deeper story elements in FF games.


XIV is low right now becuase it is beign redone. There is alot missing from it. It can be a tad easy and needs the hardcore aspect (but not rediculous aspects) to return. More depth, more stats, and fun challenges for your groups. Not just a typical, over done, same old same old Raids. Varied quests that take you around the world, and not just around the corner of the map. The leves are a msall portion of the game. You can level by leve or small quest, grind, or combo in with larger story missions. Other jobs is more borign because you can't repeat all of the reg quests (can in other regions however).

Yoshida want to apeal to othe r gamers but he sated "We must make it up to the fans of Final Fantasy".

THe failure was due to the engien used (based on CHrystal tools) which is nto sutable for MMO's but was meant for XIII and XIII-2.

The same as they took the new upcoming engine, had that team take aspects of it, and redesign it for the purpose of an MMO. It is us fans, that were the most dissappointed, and loudest to shout "WTF!"

As well as give them support, to stick through it with them, and help it grow. While they may want to apeal to others, those others who are so stuck on WOW, are not the ones that will stick it through.

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Dude... That is what we have been trying to tell you all along.... Are you kidding me ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

Dude... That is what we have been trying to tell you all along.... Are you kidding me ?

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No "Dude" that is my opinion the whole time, you are just not comprehending it.

Your general posts are on how superior wow always has been and how SE needs to be WOW. Which is shouldn't it seems you simply give in when out numbered.

XIV may adopt some standarized MMO features, but it will still remain FF. Not a clone of a western game.

What I have read of your posts doesn't indicate "That is what "WE" have been telling you" It is certainly not that by your previous comments if you need qoutes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kazaran

No "Dude" that is my opinion the whole time, you are just not comprehending it.

Your general posts are on how superior wow always has been and how SE needs to be WOW. Which is shouldn't it seems you simply give in when out numbered.

XIV may adopt some standarized MMO features, but it will still remain FF. Not a clone of a western game.

What I have read of your posts doesn't indicate "That is what "WE" have been telling you" It is certainly not that by your previous comments if you need qoutes.

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No! Your previews post's where "Wow sucks, nobody wants wow, if you use that mechanic from wow, this game will turn into a wow clone, FFXI FO LIEEFFF!!! DIE INFIDELS!!!!"

So on so on.... Now that last one was actually pretty modest..... Dont ruin it.

THere are in fact many aspects of wow that di suck but I never said it was a horrid game, simply that thsi is NOT WOW. Cloning and copying most of it aspects woudl be futile.

Let's review your posts shall we. Every post is negitive XI negitive XIV, pro WOW.

Get over WOW already, it's 2012.

Also if using qoutes, actually qoute and not in your words.

WOW may have alot of players but it is far from a perfect game, and to older gamers, it lacks alot.

In society often the majority destroy socities and prevent their evolution.

Wow is the most perfect MMO to date, is it 100% perfect ? No! But it is damm close, it caters to both hardcore and casuals, and to the casual/hardcore, you know those guys that are not neither of them, but are stuck in the middle of the pack.

Also how many times have you written "IF you want wow go back to wow" yet why don't you go back to XI ? i mean you want XIV a game SE designed NOT to be XI to be XI.... Seems dumb to me.... Please explain.

Simple.

IF wow is so perfect you are on the wrong forum. This is about FFXIV not WOW. waste postign space about WOW on a WOW forum so people interested in FFXIV can discuss it's need and evolution, which is not cloning WOW.

Since WOW is so near perfect, there is no need for you to be here discussing it any further. LOL You become a TROLL POLL.

It is perfectly ligit to ask for aspects of the prior XI in XIV. Not legit to ask for a game that has nothign to do with the franchise.

THere are many things in XI that needs to be improved apon, and ommited from XIV, but many that should be concidered.

Deal with it, becuase Yoshida stated their priority is the fans. To make it right with them, and put it in a ew direction as well. Returning parts of the franchise, and new aspects as well.

Not to make another WOW, but to continue the franchise.

Not to side with anyone but Kaz.. no one has even liked any of your posts. Welcoming "Successful Mechanics" from WOW such as the UI there's nothing wrong with that. Now if they were to copy "story elements" then that would be a different story. but making ANY MMO Function as it should is welcoming in my book, WOW Story elements= No thanks. FF is good with that.

Edit: I take that back you got 2 likes ^.^ hehe.

may want to scan back.

I said aspects of the UI are fine, but an evolution as well, WOW's addons and UI can get fustrating and over bearing and needs work, hince not perfect.

It's OSTIA garbage about how perfect WOW is. As well as his followers who state the same thing. It isn't needed here and a majority of the players don't want to here "Make it a cloen of WOW".

What works for wow doesn't mean it will work for a Japanese designed MMO with higher story content.

It is also very easy to click any posters history and see what "Side" they are on and how the generally talk. All Ostia has done is been negative, condeming, sarcastic, and contributes little. 4 posts and he brings up all mighty wow is.

Then why isn't he off playing WOW rather then flooding about how XIV needs to be more an more like WOW.

Most of what is FF will continue in XIV, with some familiarity to make it easier for casual gamers from other titles. WHich makes since. Hower not toallly sacrificing fight mechanics, story, difficuluty for it. SE needs to blaance it. Which is what they are trying.

Hopefully the clone concept will not plaque ELder Scrolls Online as well.

I have said since post one. Familiar aspects of the UI would be no issue, and that has been used in other titeles as well. Award options, but hopefully closer to rift then WOW would be better.

Raid options, Dear god I hope not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kazaran

Simple.

IF wow is so perfect you are on the wrong forum. This is about FFXIV not WOW. waste postign space about WOW on a WOW forum so people interested in FFXIV can discuss it's need and evolution, which is not cloning WOW.

Since WOW is so near perfect, there is no need for you to be here discussing it any further. LOL You become a TROLL POLL.

It is perfectly ligit to ask for aspects of the prior XI in XIV. Not legit to ask for a game that has nothign to do with the franchise.

THere are many things in XI that needs to be improved apon, and ommited from XIV, but many that should be concidered.

Deal with it, becuase Yoshida stated their priority is the fans. To make it right with them, and put it in a ew direction as well. Returning parts of the franchise, and new aspects as well.

Not to make another WOW, but to continue the franchise.

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You do know that the only one that started having a hard one for wow was you right ? This is XIV not XI, period, if you want XI, you go and play XI.

Do tell me one mechanic from XI that should be implemented in XIV.....

FF is FF.

WOW is nothign to do with it.

THere are plenty of aspects from XI that coul benifit, such as More persistant AI, with longer tracks (unlike wows AI that gives up at cross roads). Deeper skill mechanics and leveling them up for substained crits adn attacks, Better Elemental relations in battles, More challenges to pre-reqs to specific fits and no easy mode to it, deeper spell variety that functions better, THe return of defense stats in mobs, where breakign down their defense, mp pull, to weaken them for final fast assualts. Return of area assults and defenses like in WOTG. THe interlockign story elements common across FF varations an alternate existances. THe larger vast sub areas, Better structurign of sub abilties/jobs and how they complemented each other.

What is it we need from wow other then split window UI's that will fit the style of FF gaming? AI isn't suffcient. World design is outdated. Quests are to limited, simple and in small areas. No true main story line quests and cutscenes to pull it together.

Other then some ideas on gaining drop s for gear. Or simply increasing rewards for it.

Perhaps some PVP games to capture points, but that is general capture the flag style and get old. Rather see larger area task style PVP in more open zones (oh wait... humm)....

WOW isn't good enough for me to get a hard on for (why must you talk like a child?)

Curious to see yoru XI accounts and achievements.

Keep wanting that wow clone, it simply isn't the style the developers want to mimic. FF as a franchise is. Take care and keep dreaming of WOW: ARR

あなたは弱いです ? 家へ帰ってください

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kazaran

FF is FF.

WOW is nothign to do with it.

THere are plenty of aspects from XI that coul benifit, such as More persistant AI, with longer tracks (unlike wows AI that gives up at cross roads). Deeper skill mechanics and leveling them up for substained crits adn attacks, Better Elemental relations in battles, More challenges to pre-reqs to specific fits and no easy mode to it, deeper spell variety that functions better, THe return of defense stats in mobs, where breakign down their defense, mp pull, to weaken them for final fast assualts. Return of area assults and defenses like in WOTG. THe interlockign story elements common across FF varations an alternate existances. THe larger vast sub areas, Better structurign of sub abilties/jobs and how they complemented each other.

What is it we need from wow other then split window UI's that will fit the style of FF gaming? AI isn't suffcient. World design is outdated. Quests are to limited, simple and in small areas. No true main story line quests and cutscenes to pull it together.

Other then some ideas on gaining drop s for gear. Or simply increasing rewards for it.

Perhaps some PVP games to capture points, but that is general capture the flag style and get old. Rather see larger area task style PVP in more open zones (oh wait... humm)....

WOW isn't good enough for me to get a hard on for (why must you talk like a child?)

Curious to see yoru XI accounts and achievements.

Keep wanting that wow clone, it simply isn't the style the developers want to mimic. FF as a franchise is. Take care and keep dreaming of WOW: ARR

あなたは弱いです ? 家へ帰ってください

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Those aspects of XI are outdated brah, as in they are from EQ, as in the majority of MMO players don't want it, numbers don't lie, also SE themselves don't want XIV turned into XI, if you want XI, XI still exist does it not ? SE wants MONEY!! Do you think they are willing to spend 50+ million dollars to cater to 200K players.... Please.

Also you obviously did not play PVP on wow, because capture the flag is not even half of what the PVP in wow is all about..... Also quest in WOW are limited ? Are you serious ? Seriously wow quest are the most diverse quest out of any MMO out there, they also have a main storyline, they just dont have scenes ala xenosaga, but each zone has a complete storyline that eventually ties itself to the main storyline of the current expansion, unlike XIV.....