Final fight too hard?

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

uhh given that i'm a casual, no.
I'm just saying in THIS SPECIFIC GAME there are a lot of people who are -very- casual. Meaning they don't want to play it until 2.0, but still want to finish the story and see the new content. These are the people who just return at patches for 2 or 3 days and then go back to SWTOR or WoW or another game.

For -those- people, this fight is too much of a hassle. They want to come back, do the new stuff in a day or two, and leave. And when you have no ls, pickup parties are difficult for this fight since it takes a few runs for people to get the hang of things. And many pickups break after an hour or 2.

So for -those- people who want to rush the content and don't normally play (meaning they aren't as skilled with controls, have less-amazing gear, and may not know all the moves), this fight is a turn-off.

For 2.0 I think every fight should be like this, and the boss fight should be even harder. FF11 had a good difficulty level for their stuff. And since there is no death, i think difficulty should be even higher.

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Story is just as much a reward for hard work as drops are.

And are you seriously advocating making such detailed changes to 1.0, which is being discontinued soon, for people who want to pop in for a couple days then leave?

Those people are not worth it if they cannot put in the time to do the story proper, and their subscriptions will not be missed.

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Originally Posted by Darkillumina

The fight is easy as long as your mages aren't gimp. The problem is most mages are used to face-rolling something in a safe spot and thus can't pay attention to the battle-log if their life depended on it. This battle is neat because it actually forces them to move around and actually you know, pay attention.

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I believe many players who are DoM main do take their role seriously and do pay attention.

But unfortunately, the developers seem to be the ones who want mages to appear idle by requiring us to stay still for spell casting and to perform no actions in order to start the regeneration of MP. I liked it better when we could move around, but that's a whole other discussion.

As for this fight... once you understand it, I find that going in as a DoM class is actually quite dull compared to other endgame fights.

The fight is actually pretty simple once you understand it, the only real trouble is the part right before and after he teleports to the top, he starts spamming AoEs and it could throw people off and kill anybody not paying attention.

Hard mode is what I'm worried about lol.

Wow ppl need to get back to console games if they think this fight is to hard. How many tries did it take you to beat sorceress Adel in FFVIII? If you even played it.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

uhh given that i'm a casual, no.
I'm just saying in THIS SPECIFIC GAME there are a lot of people who are -very- casual. Meaning they don't want to play it until 2.0, but still want to finish the story and see the new content. These are the people who just return at patches for 2 or 3 days and then go back to SWTOR or WoW or another game.

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Sorry but that is well below casual. Casual could range from playing a few hours a week to say 15-20 hours a week. Someone that just hops on for patches is someone that is just keeping up with the game they do not fall into the casual category. Your friends do not deserve the win.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Sorry but that is well below casual. Casual could range from playing a few hours a week to say 15-20 hours a week. Someone that just hops on for patches is someone that is just keeping up with the game they do not fall into the casual category. Your friends do not deserve the win.

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The term you are looking for is "patch player" which is the lowest tier of player in any mmo.

Wait, you are suggesting the fight should be easier so people who can barely be bothered to play can have a win?

Alright, I'll add my experience.

I've finished the fight twice, both with different pick up groups.

It's not that bad, honestly. Everyone just needs to know what to do, and not quit after a couple of failures.

Its not too hard, but it's harder thank i think it should be. Considering it is a finishing quest without rewards besides some seals i believe its challenge excludes too many ppl.

I wouldn't mind if they toned him down just a notch. Holding hate on him hasn't really been the issue on my so-so PLD, except for when he gets off a particularly bad stun and then proceeds to spam his Lance attack... which I still haven't gotten the hang of dodging.

The real problems I've encountered thus far are his HP regen during the 2 hour (which lasted for like 4 minutes on my last run, what the crap?) and his AoE - even holding him in the sweetspot in phase 2 he seems to get off some AoE that'd normally miss the others.

He also used Fierce Ravensbeak on me, which still confounds me as I had hate and was tanking him at the base floor when he just suddenly warped up then came back down and fragged me... one of our BLM's was upstairs at the time dealing with a meteor, but can he just switch targets like that mid-attack?

Currently 0/6 on him, and getting fed up. My gear's up to date (though hardly "ideal") and all the people I've run it with have all been good with the general strategy etc, I just seem to keep running into a brick wall every time we get close to the win. SOMETHING goes wrong, every time... @_@

Fight is a cake walk once you learn where to stand when.

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Originally Posted by NefGP

He also used Fierce Ravensbeak on me, which still confounds me as I had hate and was tanking him at the base floor when he just suddenly warped up then came back down and fragged me... one of our BLM's was upstairs at the time dealing with a meteor, but can he just switch targets like that mid-attack?

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It's possible, however unlikely, that your BLM pulled just ahead of you in hate, and Darnus proceeded to enter SATA mode.

The final fight is not hard at all compared to something like Garuda, Ifrit Extreme or even 17 min dungeon runs. It's actually quite enjoyable, the most fun fight i've done in this game so far. I hope there is more to come like this. Not impossibly hard but hard enough to still provide a challenge while being fun at the same time. I did it with a pick up group just fine, took us maybe 5 tries but we got it. All it takes is non-retarded blms, ppl who know the positioning (which doesn't change much) and decent DPS at the end. Pretty sure we even had at least 2 ppll in lolfullAF.

It's been hard to get Blms that take care of last meteor wave.... . Trying to level blm myself but when i get 50 done nobody will be doing this anymore.

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Originally Posted by Deathmask

It's been hard to get Blms that take care of last meteor wave.... . Trying to level blm myself but when i get 50 done nobody will be doing this anymore.

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A couple Ideas (gonna assume you're working in a PUG situation or with people newer to the game) Also, I'm assuming you mean the pre-Megaflare part.

1. Have the WHM's help nuke down the Meteors on that wave.
2. Bards can take down Meteors as well...so if you don't have solid blms, putting archers/bards up there will also work.
3. Maybe your Blms are fine, but not spread out well. Make sure you have one on each ledge
4. Maybe Blms start fine but run out of MP...this could be due to lack of damage on Nael. Make sure to keep any 'bleed or Dot' effects on him if possible (from Melee DD's or a single WHM) and make sure you have the DD's beating on him up top.

All you need to do is make sure all the Meteors are destroyed and that someone keeps beating on Nael so he'll move into the 'Mega-flare' phase. Any DD can keep the damage on Nael, so just make sure to bring your best ranged in on the Meteors.

When we won the first time, our setup was:

PLD tank
WHM x2
BLMx3
Bardx2

This was our setup because people (with the exception of me on Bard) we're playing their 'main' jobs.

Once Nael tele'd to the top, the blms, whms and one bard went to the middle ledges to take out Meteors. I went up top with the tank to keep DDing/ Bloodletter up on Nael.

Note:

On the second win I played WHM... for the pre-Mega-flare part, I ran up my ledge to re-buff my side's blms/bard then ran to top where Monk and Tank were DDing Nael, Buffed them, Aero'd Nael and then started running to bottom...by the time I reached the bottom, Mega-flare happened.

I went 1/20, always had problems with dealing with Meteors on phase 2 (5%) and Dynamo. Either BLMs complainining they can't target meteors or mages just can't find the sweet spots for dynamo.

it can suck when Nael decides to Dynamo while the BLMs were running to position to intercept meteors.

at 5% after he teleported, have all your WHMs, BLMs, BRDs focus on debris (this is extremely crucial), 2 DDs focus on Nael. The golems are weak and can be slept. Focus on killing meteors until Nael comes down.

when he comes down, he might or might not follow up with his combo (2x close circle AOE + Dynamo). So be very careful when approaching him, let him come to you (you are standing at the same corner as before anyway). And resume the fight just like start of phase 2.

if he does pull out his combo and knock some of your guys out, then burn your 15min ability or whatever to speed kill him / stay alive. He should be at around 5%+ hp anyway, burn him out and you should win.

more like fight was too easy.

For those unaware, you have to deal damage to Nael in order to make him use Megaflare and come back down.

In our video I posted, you can see we stood around killing the meteors in phase two for about 5-7 minutes. We didn't realize he was regenerating. When we realized it, he had already regenerated to about half health.

We left the meteors to the two BLM and one of our three BRD. The other two BRD went up with our WAR and a WHM to damage Darnus.

Once you have dealt a certain amount of damage (Note, NOT a certain %), then he will use Megaflare and return to the bottom floor.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

A couple Ideas (gonna assume you're working in a PUG situation or with people newer to the game) Also, I'm assuming you mean the pre-Megaflare part.

1. Have the WHM's help nuke down the Meteors on that wave.
2. Bards can take down Meteors as well...so if you don't have solid blms, putting archers/bards up there will also work.
3. Maybe your Blms are fine, but not spread out well. Make sure you have one on each ledge
4. Maybe Blms start fine but run out of MP...this could be due to lack of damage on Nael. Make sure to keep any 'bleed or Dot' effects on him if possible (from Melee DD's or a single WHM) and make sure you have the DD's beating on him up top.

All you need to do is make sure all the Meteors are destroyed and that someone keeps beating on Nael so he'll move into the 'Mega-flare' phase. Any DD can keep the damage on Nael, so just make sure to bring your best ranged in on the Meteors.

When we won the first time, our setup was:

PLD tank
WHM x2
BLMx3
Bardx2

This was our setup because people (with the exception of me on Bard) we're playing their 'main' jobs.

Once Nael tele'd to the top, the blms, whms and one bard went to the middle ledges to take out Meteors. I went up top with the tank to keep DDing/ Bloodletter up on Nael.

Note:

On the second win I played WHM... for the pre-Mega-flare part, I ran up my ledge to re-buff my side's blms/bard then ran to top where Monk and Tank were DDing Nael, Buffed them, Aero'd Nael and then started running to bottom...by the time I reached the bottom, Mega-flare happened.

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That's the setup I've had the most success with so far, except the BRD & BLM were all shooting down meteors. That would explain why his 2 hour lasted 4+ minutes and he came back down back at 25% HP (down from like 8~10%...)

Yeah, I'm full-AF PLD, hardly ideal but I've got his patterns learned fairly well and only in rare cases have I lost hate. I just can't tell if it's me screwing up or every party I've been in where someone else (however slightly) dropped the ball with not moving away from AoE during 2nd stage (when he rages before/after 2 hour) etc...

God I just want the f'ing win. During his 2 hour, it's safe for me to run up and hit him as well isn't it? Provided I run back down the moment he starts up megaflare (he rants about it in /say as he starts it).

Now, I only had my own gimpy stoneskin up compared to a WHM's, but Megaflare only like 750 damage to me on that run, which was less than his stupid lance laser O.o

it's probably a bad idea to run the stairs if you have hate. When he teleports down, naturally you'll still be at the top and you'll need to run down the stairs to him. So while running to him you might trigger his instant kill. just saying.

Good advice on this page. Most don't seem to notice that Nael has a damage threshold that needs to be reached in order for him to move into Mega-Flare mode much like you have to DPS Miser when she's in the pool to a certain threshold in order to depop the Giltraps.

Make sure you bring along some Melee DD's for this purpose or else you are in for a very long fight. It is because of this that I stopped using PLD on this fight; doubly so if you have a mage heavy set up. During his charge/regen phase he doesn't attack you which means you can't pull off spirits reliably. Warrior can utilize all of its combo's during this phase to keep up steady dps to reach the threshold faster. Since your taking little to no damage Berserk actually does something here. White mages should be helping out with meteors and the bards should be helping out with Nael and giving ballad to the mages when necessary.

1st phase is easy just standard tank him and when he tele just move centre then avoid his lazer,Try not to be to fast on this because if you go to fast he will turn and fire at tank direction.

2nd phase you can tank him the full fight in one spot have all mages in one spot and just stay like that most the fight.
When he gets around 50% meteors drop from time to time just have 1-2 members go up a little and nuke them.
Stay like this untill hes around 5% and he tele and will re enter at the top platform,Have 2 mages on each platform whm or blm or even bard and have them sleep the golems on the way up.
Then just have mages nuke the meteors while you melee DPS ,we used 2drg in our fight dps darnus at the top,
once they DPS enough the golems will dissapear and darnus will re pop at the bottom.

Tank never moves from position after phase 1 so tank picks him back up at the bottom and everyone goes on darnus to finish him off,

hope this helps members who are unsure on this,
can always watch this also if you are unsure goodluck guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lCWv...layer_embedded

Won this yesterday on the 2nd attempt with PLD BRDx2 BLMx4 WHM.

For Phase 2 as soon as meteors started falling we sent a BLM up each staircase to then stay there and deal with them. When he teleported up at low HP we sent everyone else to the stairs to deal with meteors and the 2 BRDs up top to DPS the boss and keep his regen down. Kept the golems slept and left the tank down the bottom.

After megaflare was a bit messy as he hit everyone with an AoE followed up by the drain move which killed 5/8 of our party but PLD used Hallowed Ground while WHM raised people.

Once you have a solid strategy it's a really easy fight tbh, you could probably replace a 1 BRD and 1 BLM with melee DDs to speed things up but you do need ranged damage for the meteors, if 3 manage to hit he'll use megaflare straight away for ~5k damage.

I didn't read past the title of this thread, but trust me, its not that difficult.

Proof that it can be duo'd with no deaths

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Originally Posted by Dano

I went 1/20, always had problems with dealing with Meteors on phase 2 (5%) and Dynamo. Either BLMs complainining they can't target meteors or mages just can't find the sweet spots for dynamo.

it can suck when Nael decides to Dynamo while the BLMs were running to position to intercept meteors.

at 5% after he teleported, have all your WHMs, BLMs, BRDs focus on debris (this is extremely crucial), 2 DDs focus on Nael. The golems are weak and can be slept. Focus on killing meteors until Nael comes down.

when he comes down, he might or might not follow up with his combo (2x close circle AOE + Dynamo). So be very careful when approaching him, let him come to you (you are standing at the same corner as before anyway). And resume the fight just like start of phase 2.

if he does pull out his combo and knock some of your guys out, then burn your 15min ability or whatever to speed kill him / stay alive. He should be at around 5%+ hp anyway, burn him out and you should win.

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seems like quite a lot of BLM are the ones with the most issues first off they should go into configuration and turn off the option that cancels a spell when resuing said spell when it is already casting. when they are at the top (targeting isnt the issue the issue is waiting for the meteor to get low enough to be able to cast on it) after they aquire the target they can just spam thunder until it casts and then follow up with thundara. This makes the "The target is to far above you" issue no longer an issue

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Originally Posted by NefGP

That's the setup I've had the most success with so far, except the BRD & BLM were all shooting down meteors. That would explain why his 2 hour lasted 4+ minutes and he came back down back at 25% HP (down from like 8~10%...)

Yeah, I'm full-AF PLD, hardly ideal but I've got his patterns learned fairly well and only in rare cases have I lost hate. I just can't tell if it's me screwing up or every party I've been in where someone else (however slightly) dropped the ball with not moving away from AoE during 2nd stage (when he rages before/after 2 hour) etc...

God I just want the f'ing win. During his 2 hour, it's safe for me to run up and hit him as well isn't it? Provided I run back down the moment he starts up megaflare (he rants about it in /say as he starts it).

Now, I only had my own gimpy stoneskin up compared to a WHM's, but Megaflare only like 750 damage to me on that run, which was less than his stupid lance laser O.o

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Our Pld tank was fine DDing while in the Meteor phase and then sprinting down during Megaflare...he made it to the bottom in time...that said, it is very close. So anticipating it isn't a bad thing. Also, after Megaflare, Nael moves his position off the tank a bit more...so sometimes party and tank can be standing in the same positions they were the whole fight and still get hit...this is a prime spot for 15min abilities. A well-time battle voice or Benediction can be the saving grace.

If you have a bard have them soulvoice or w/e right after megaflare, it can be the diff between a win and a wipe

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I didn't read past the title of this thread, but trust me, its not that difficult.

Proof that it can be duo'd with no deaths

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Haha you beat me to it lol! I was about to post a "final fight" cover on here myself. That game was indeed too hard!

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

If you have a bard have them soulvoice or w/e right after megaflare, it can be the diff between a win and a wipe

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Unnecessary. If your BRDs and BLMs are on top of things and don't allow any meteors to hit the ground while he's "charging", then Megaflare will do a meager 1900 damage. Considering that there is no other source of damage in that phase (Except MAYBE Golems), you really don't need to waste any 15 minutes here.

Battle Voice is best used when your group has returned to the bottom floor after Megaflare and you're in your final DD push stage.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Unnecessary. If your BRDs and BLMs are on top of things and don't allow any meteors to hit the ground while he's "charging", then Megaflare will do a meager 1900 damage. Considering that there is no other source of damage in that phase (Except MAYBE Golems), you really don't need to waste any 15 minutes here.

Battle Voice is best used when your group has returned to the bottom floor after Megaflare and you're in your final DD push stage.

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.... "right after megaflare"
so you basically just said "don't do what you said... just do what you said"

My problem with this fight is that it is too heavily focused on ranged attackers. I thought we went over this thing about balancing fights for general parties, but they still have class/job stack ftw fights. They could slow down on the number of meteors dropping in ph3 to allow for more melee combatants, and of course, his aoe attack sucks for having more than one other melee combatant and should probably do a little less damage, or have an actual recast time added to it. One thing I notice about monsters and such is that none of their abilities really have recast times. RNG could screw you and you find yoursef with 3 of those WW back to back that kill the other melee in your group. I have also had him do his teleport -> lazer 7 times in a row before finally deciding to come poke me.

I just want to say 1 thing and keep it simple......


This is the best fight in this whole game hands down.......

the most exciting......fun......panic button pushing rush buzz along with awsome music....

SE /gcsalute


<p.s for all the people bitching about it being too hard......jigger please........it's supposed to be the big boss.....not sum snurble who tickles you....

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Originally Posted by Reika

My problem with this fight is that it is too heavily focused on ranged attackers. I thought we went over this thing about balancing fights for general parties, but they still have class/job stack ftw fights. They could slow down on the number of meteors dropping in ph3 to allow for more melee combatants, and of course, his aoe attack sucks for having more than one other melee combatant and should probably do a little less damage, or have an actual recast time added to it. One thing I notice about monsters and such is that none of their abilities really have recast times. RNG could screw you and you find yoursef with 3 of those WW back to back that kill the other melee in your group. I have also had him do his teleport -> lazer 7 times in a row before finally deciding to come poke me.

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This fight is the best so far. Ranged?

We have 3 melee bashing him. Two blm meteors, 2 whm and 1 blm safe spot.

You are doing group with unskilled ppl. That's why it's difficult.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

A lot of friends who are casuals came back to complete the storyline. After dealing with spending 10-30min just trying to enter a fight and wiping 10+ times to AOEs most have just left again. A couple have basically said they don't even want to try 2.0 because it will just be the same problems with a new world.

While I do think that this is an awesome fight, for the population FFXIV has (60% only return at patches for a week, 20% full time casual 10% semi-hardcore and 10% hardcore, this fight seems pretty imbalanced.

In 2.0 I would understand fights being designed for hardcores or semi-hardcores. But for the ending of FFXIV which is supposed to let people finish up a story so they can transition to 2.0, this fight seems like its too much of a hassle.

That combined with "unable to proceed due to server congestion" is probably driving a lot of people away.

It also doesn't help that you get the same server lag as with ifrit, which is different for every individual. For example, the first few times i did the fight i got slammed with the beam attack even though i was behind the guy on my screen. I had to watch the minimap and move before he even appeared to avoid it.

Honestly I think that SE should just easy-mode the fight (cut difficulty by 50%?) so that people returning for a few days can finish up the storyline (even if they suck or only have af). If not, it will just make people more weary about 2.0.

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I don't think the fight is too hard, but I think the player base overall is horrendous at playing the game. I'm always surprised by people who claim WoW is too easy, but that FFXIV is this incredibly difficult game. It couldn't be farther from the truth. People just have no idea how to play their class.

if you think its ranged only fight your doing it wrong our set up it pld, drg,mnk, 2 brd,2blm, 1 whm

Got some video? Because the vid I saw of it had no melee DD and they roflstomped it like it was nothing, and another vid where there is only 1 melee DD, a mrd because it can take hits better.

unless they had a bad tank in that video the only thing that we had to worry about is his aoe at that he uses twice in a row which isnt so bad cause second wind helps alot

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Originally Posted by Reika

Got some video? Because the vid I saw of it had no melee DD and they roflstomped it like it was nothing, and another vid where there is only 1 melee DD, a mrd because it can take hits better.

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My group did it with one melee, three blm, one bard, two whm, and a tank. FFXIV in general, as well as with insistence from the community, is too specific when it comes to group compositions, and there is generally pressure to have a composition made up of warriors, black mages, and white mages. I still see people wanting BLM only for Ifrit groups, which I think is hysterical. FFXIV devs need to be able to address this recurrent issue so that all classes and jobs are welcome and feasible in groups without radically changing the difficulty of the encounter.

One other thing I think must change is creating difficulty for ranged dps and healers. Fights where the ranged stand in one spot the entire time and just sort of "observe" the fight are silly. Still, even adding small mechanics like Darnus' absorb attack results in tunnel vision for many ranged dps and healers. They can't even adjust a few steps.

Hopefully 2.0's server changes will allow the developers to make stronger fight designs that favor all classes and jobs equally. If they don't, I think they will have problems like when people felt they couldn't contribute with their job in FFXI.

IIRC we used 1 PLD, 1 WAR, 2 DRG, 1 BRD, 2 BLM, 1 WHM,