Relic News - 6.45

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Please point to me when I have last told someone to take a break in response to them posting critisicm of the game.

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You would have to tell me where I said you did. Because as far as the comment above all I accused you of was derailing the topic and not admitting that telling others to quit is in poor taste, instead of getting high on morality and calling out others when the context of the response is obvious. That’s why other people here accused of the point going right over your head.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

You would have to tell me where I said you did. Because as far as the comment above all I accused you of was derailing the topic and not admitting that telling others to quit is in poor taste, instead of getting high on morality and calling out others when the context of the response is obvious. That’s why other people here accused of the point going right over your head.

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You said I should admit that telling people to quit when they want change is in poor taste. That's only something for me to admit if I do it or defend it. If you think this is derailing then why are you all hopping onto it like white knights defending the poster I called out.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

You said I should admit that telling people to quit when they want change is in poor taste. That's only something for me to admit if I do it or defend it.

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Since when? I don't show up drunk to company meetings nor defend it, and I still admit it's in poor taste. It's called deduction skills.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

We really shouldn't have players telling each other to quit or unsub if they don't like something that has gone wrong with the game - especially when what people are asking for is entirely reasonable. A decent relic grind. Like we've had in the past.

This "I got mine" attitude some people have doesn't really have a place in good faith discussions when dealing with other players who are unhappy for valid reasons.

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To be completely fair, suggesting to another player that they should unsub if they are unhappy isn't a bad suggestion, especially if the unhappy person in question doesn't find any real joy in the game anymore. However, this suggestion isn't usually meant as a well-intentioned piece of advice around here, or on any game's forum for that matter. I've seen this anywhere and everywhere, and it is almost always used to dismiss feedback rather than advise. It's nothing new, but it can be frustrating sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

To be completely fair, suggesting to another player that they should unsub if they are unhappy isn't a bad suggestion, especially if the unhappy person in question doesn't find any real joy in the game anymore. However, this suggestion isn't usually meant as a well-intentioned piece of advice around here, or on any game's forum for that matter. I've seen this anywhere and everywhere, and almost always to dismiss feedback rather than advise. It's nothing new, but it can be frustrating sometimes.

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No I have to disagree. It's a terrible suggestion because it is stating the obvious and an insult to the person raising the complaint in question. Of course they can quit, if they wanted to they would've already done so. The obvious root issue is they don't want to, and they are making it known what can be improved on. Not to mention the second part of what you said is true as well.

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No I have to disagree. It's a terrible suggestion because it is stating the obvious and an insult to the person raising the complaint in question.

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No it's not. The only power you have as a consumer is the money you use to pay for the product you are consuming. If you are not satisfied with the product you are consuming but continue to financially support that product then what incentive are you providing to the company that produces that product? Why should they change anything? What will they lose if they don't? Your money? Clearly they are still getting it. This is one of the reasons why I suggest to people to take a break. The bigger reason is that I genuinely think it's a good idea to pause an activity like an MMO from time to time. It helps prevent burn out. It's the only way I've been able to enjoy this game for the many years I've been playing it. If people don't care for that advice fine, but don't tell me that I'm defending some bad state of the game by offering that advice. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Also on the subject of housing. Just gotta say that it's a pretty poor thing to bring up as some tool to shoot down that break suggestion. You knew that the demo timer worked the way it. You purchased it with that knowledge in mind, unless you were part of the very original housing release (doubtful). Is it a capture tool meant to keep you subbed? Yes. Do I think it's good? Of course not. But staying subbed and continuing to pay for it doesn't help that change imo. As I said earlier, there's no incentive to change it. You are paying them all the reason needed to never change it.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

No I have to disagree. It's a terrible suggestion because it is stating the obvious and an insult to the person raising the complaint in question. Of course they can quit, if they wanted to they would've already done so. The obvious root issue is they don't want to, and they are making it known what can be improved on. Not to mention the second part of what you said is true as well.

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That's fine, but the 2nd half of my post covered most of what you said here. lol

Intent is important here.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

No it's not. The only power you have as a consumer is the money you use to pay for the product you are consuming. If you are not satisfied with the product you are consuming but continue to financially support that product then what incentive are you providing to the company that produces that product? Why should they change anything? What will they lose if they don't? Your money? Clearly they are still getting it. This is one of the reasons why I suggest to people to take a break. The bigger reason is that I genuinely think it's a good idea to pause an activity like an MMO from time to time.

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And that's fine for you to think that, but not everyone does, the reason its not good advice is not because it doesn't have its merits like you have described, it's because literally everyone knows about this "solution" so again, the fact they are complaining isnt because they have no idea they can unsub, its because theyve thought about it and decided to stay and try to enact change.

Sometimes companies, and especially this game, has listened to players, so there is even more incentive to try it.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

No it's not. The only power you have as a consumer is the money you use to pay for the product you are consuming. If you are not satisfied with the product you are consuming but continue to financially support that product then what incentive are you providing to the company that produces that product? Why should they change anything? What will they lose if they don't? Your money? Clearly they are still getting it. This is one of the reasons why I suggest to people to take a break. The bigger reason is that I genuinely think it's a good idea to pause an activity like an MMO from time to time. It helps prevent burn out. It's the only way I've been able to enjoy this game for the many years I've been playing it. If people don't care for that advice fine, but don't tell me that I'm defending some bad state of the game by offering that advice. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Also on the subject of housing. Just gotta say that it's a pretty poor thing to bring up as some tool to shoot down that break suggestion. You knew that the demo timer worked the way it. You purchased it with that knowledge in mind, unless you were part of the very original housing release (doubtful). Is it a capture tool meant to keep you subbed? Yes. Do I think it's good? Of course not. But staying subbed and continuing to pay for it doesn't help that change imo. As I said earlier, there's no incentive to change it. You are paying them all the reason needed to never change it.

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I fundamentally disagree with this logic, unsubbing solves nothing and we really need to stop pretending it does. The people submitting critique want the game they're paying for to improve, they do not want to give up the ghost quit and never reap the potential future benefits for what their criticism may provide. This goes double for a forum such as this one where you have to pay or utilize a login campaign just to be able to proffer your input on here.

The reason people call "take a break" useless advice is because it doesn't actually solve the actual issue people are having in the first place. Sure, they'll save money and maybe feel less stress but that's far and away from what the issue was in the first place. If they unsub, they're not accomplishing anything. They're all but conceding, their game won't improve, and there's no magic guarantee that if and when they come back anything will have changed for the better. It's a gamble with no actual potential payout, the only way to heighten the possibility of improvement is to stay here and continue supporting their views on the matter.

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

I fundamentally disagree with this logic, unsubbing solves nothing and we really need to stop pretending it does. The people submitting critique want the game they're paying for to improve, they do not want to give up the ghost quit and never reap the potential future benefits for what their criticism may provide. This goes double for a forum such as this one where you have to pay or utilize a login campaign just to be able to proffer your input on here.

The reason people call "take a break" useless advice is because it doesn't actually solve the actual issue people are having in the first place. Sure, they'll save money and maybe feel less stress but that's far and away from what the issue was in the first place. If they unsub, they're not accomplishing anything. They're all but conceding, their game won't improve, and there's no magic guarantee that if and when they come back anything will have changed for the better. It's a gamble with no actual potential payout, the only way to heighten the possibility of improvement is to stay here and continue supporting their views on the matter.

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Why is "quitting" put in the same box as "taking a break"? Also how is the issue of "having nothing to do" not solved by playing when there is a plethora of content that the individual has not yet done?

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Why is "quitting" put in the same box as "taking a break"? Also how is the issue of "having nothing to do" not solved by playing when there is a plethora of content that the individual has not yet done?

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That's becau- you know what, I'll follow what that au ra guy said. You can't reason with certain kind of people.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

That's becau- you know what, I'll follow what that au ra guy said. You can't reason with certain kind of people.

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It really is better sometimes really, some people you just cant reason with, they will go as far lengths as to call the "10 000 desynths" achievement "content", or ocean fishing which is very niche, basically for them to accept (and even then they still wouldnt) that the game lacks content, you would need to have 100% in every single category, and even at that point they'll tell you that you can just roll an alt and do it all over again

its plain stupidity really and just defending the company because they have this weird relationship with yoshi P and the game in general that makes them want to defend it at all cost, or just pure copium on their part because they know this game is not doing as well as they make it sound like it is

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It really is better sometimes really, some people you just cant reason with, they will go as far lengths as to call the "10 000 desynths" achievement "content", or ocean fishing which is very niche, basically for them to accept (and even then they still wouldnt) that the game lacks content, you would need to have 100% in every single category, and even at that point they'll tell you that you can just roll an alt and do it all over again

its plain stupidity really and just defending the company because they have this weird relationship with yoshi P and the game in general that makes them want to defend it at all cost, or just pure copium on their part because they know this game is not doing as well as they make it sound like it is

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I've never made any such claims. Stop projecting. You can't know what stance someone holds unless you ask them and actually have a conversation.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I've never made any such claims. Stop projecting. You can't know what stance someone holds unless you ask them and actually have a conversation.

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I wouldn't put too much thought on this person. I've only ever seen one instance where they showed normal human understanding. Otherwise it's like a bot, always repeating the same lines and ignoring any context. They are just a hate bot how I see it.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I've never made any such claims. Stop projecting. You can't know what stance someone holds unless you ask them and actually have a conversation.

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So now you understand why it isn't productive for some individuals to try and paint me as someone who hates the game? Glad we had this talk.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I wouldn't put too much thought on this person. I've only ever seen one instance where they showed normal human understanding. Otherwise it's like a bot, always repeating the same lines and ignoring any context. They are just a hate bot how I see it.

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beep boop beep boop buddy, me not agreeing with you and us not agreeing to something does not make me a hate bot

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

beep boop beep boop buddy, me not agreeing with you and us not agreeing to something does not make me a hate bot

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Do you want to try agreeing on something? Do you actually want to talk; or do you just want to throw out the most extreme example and assign to anyone whom has a different conclusion than you? If you want to actually discuss the issue, then please let's have it.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

beep boop beep boop buddy, me not agreeing with you and us not agreeing to something does not make me a hate bot

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This is going to be my only response to you for now cuz as you say so often yourself, it's just not worth it.
I never once said anything about us not agreeing with each other. As a matter of fact there are things we do agree on. My comment was on how you respond to people in here. Your responses are always personal insults or just silly 1 liners meant to just egg people on.
You don't want to partake in an actual discussion, you just want to be a dick and to be "right" in any situation.
This is entirely how I see your posts.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Why is "quitting" put in the same box as "taking a break"? Also how is the issue of "having nothing to do" not solved by playing when there is a plethora of content that the individual has not yet done?

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Because in the context in which it's so frequently recommended on this forum, from what I've seen so far at least, "taking a break" might as well be quitting. What guarantees does a player have that anything they actually enjoy will be added by the time they return? Only through sticking around and proffering your opinions and critique can such a thing be accomplished.

The second part of your inquiry may work as a defense for newer sprouts and those who play at a glacial pace, but there are plenty of players who've been loyal subscribers for over a decade and have gradually done all that there is up till this point. What of those players who do all/most content when it's current? I'm sure it hasn't escaped you that they exist, but for the purposes of making my statement I've no choice but to say that these types of players are rather common.

The issue is people treating the "take a break" advice as some sort of catch-all silver bullet that solves and excuses all issues players might have with the game and it's content as it is but that simply isn't the case, I'm afraid. I may very well be wrong about this, but based on my observations and lurking so far I would argue that the "take a break" argument is being offered as benign but instead it reads like "The game is fine, mostly because I personally enjoy it. There's nothing to critique and instead of clogging my space take your gripes and leave the forums with them."

I can, of course, only speak for myself. However, that's what I've been witnessing occur.

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

Because in the context in which it's so frequently recommended on this forum, from what I've seen so far at least, "taking a break" might as well be quitting. What guarantees does a player have that anything they actually enjoy will be added by the time they return? Only through sticking around and proffering your opinions and critique can such a thing be accomplished.

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Paying for an MMO you don't enjoy is you wasting money. And the more you pay, the more SE thinks it's doing something right. If the game does not add anything you enjoy, then just don't resub. Hell, I quit ESO and stopped paying ESO Plus when they were adding the Greymoor expansion because I DESPISE Skyrim, and haven't really gone back since the stuff they have released has been pretty subpar (I watch my friend play from time to time, he's on the verge of quitting himself).

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

snip.

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Make's sense. It really comes off as though that single suggestion is the signifier of some collective group that a person takes issue with. Also to your comment of people that have been playing for about a decade and doing things when they are current; I have to ask what is considered "current"? I feel like I would receive several different answers to that question. To me anything outside of the expansion is no longer current but I've seen people suggest that anything outside of a patch is no longer current. A similar question that I think would get even more different results is "what is considered relevant?" But even more is the question "when is something worth running?" which to me is nearly always; but I wouldn't be surprised to receive many different answers for that as well.

Do people consider something only worth running and therefore only relevant the week/month it's released? Does it have to do with the duration of que times?

I ask these questions because to me "take a break" is not some cure all. It's simply the response to the single issue of "there's nothing to do". That statement tells me that the poster has run all content that appeals to them and has therefore hit content drought; something I think people can hit even if some awesome thing just released that day. If nothing is present that appeals to me then my only solution is to wait for more stuff that does. For a lot of people Eureka and Bozja was what they wanted. For me it was a waste of time. I explicitly waited for something else to be available that wasn't those because I just didn't care for them. But it seems like people are taking that as some heavy insult when it's discussed.

so many lazy afker players saying the relic should be easy alt weapons are so clueless. thats literally the point of extreme weapons and crafted gear. i guess they just love doing the same lv 50 alliance and 2 expert dungeons mindlessly forever.

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Originally Posted by seolhyun

so many lazy afker players saying the relic should be easy alt weapons are so clueless. thats literally the point of extreme weapons and crafted gear. i guess they just love doing the same lv 50 alliance and 2 expert dungeons mindlessly forever.

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The difference in those 3 weapons is when they are released. Considering how much later the relic weapon comes out it is a safe assumption that it's meant as a catch up tool. And let's not pretend like the previous relic grinds were hard either. It was just time consuming.

I also hate the 2 expert dungeons and alliance raids but that's also why I just promote people to join me in hunts instead! Way more fun.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

The difference in those 3 weapons is when they are released. Considering how much later the relic weapon comes out it is a safe assumption that it's meant as a catch up tool. And let's not pretend like the previous relic grinds were hard either. It was just time consuming.

I also hate the 2 expert dungeons and alliance raids but that's also why I just promote people to join me in hunts instead! Way more fun.

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Yes, they were time consuming, that was the whole point. It wasn't hard, it was meant for casuals, it traded difficulty for time investment. Relics (by that I mean actual relics, not this meaningless junk we have in EW) are used as prestige item and cool glamour. Now they're just cool glamours (the "cool" part is arguable) that you get as a participation award.

Tell me, what are you trying to catch up to? Current step is 630 and released month before tier unlocked. Tier's min ilvl is 610. Since 6.3, you can get augmented crafted at 620 + 630 upgraded tome gear + 625 EX weapon, that is more than enough. If that is not enough for you, then problem isn't your gear.

We really don't need yet another tome weapon. If they really want that, let us buy brine for deez nuts or AR tokens, so we can upgrade 620 tome weapon to 630 without doing savage.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

Yes, they were time consuming, that was the whole point. It wasn't hard, it was meant for casuals, it traded difficulty for time investment. Relics (by that I mean actual relics, not this meaningless junk we have in EW) are used as prestige item and cool glamour. Now they're just cool glamours (the "cool" part is arguable) that you get as a participation award.

Tell me, what are you trying to catch up to? Current step is 630 and released month before tier unlocked. Tier's min ilvl is 610. Since 6.3, you can get augmented crafted at 620 + 630 upgraded tome gear + 625 EX weapon, that is more than enough. If that is not enough for you, then problem isn't your gear.

We really don't need yet another tome weapon. If they really want that, let us buy brine for deez nuts or AR tokens, so we can upgrade 620 tome weapon to 630 without doing savage.

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I gave my opinion on the subject of relic weapons a few pages back, I'm also not a fan of it but considering we have no new content for relics, I much rather the tomestone option since it gives more freedom of choice.
Again, this is just if we have no new content attached to it.

My last comment was just a response to the last person complaints that I saw holes in is all.

As for what you need catching up for? It's basically just to prep for the next set of raids since all current content has already been out for a while by the time it comes out.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I gave my opinion on the subject of relic weapons a few pages back, I'm also not a fan of it but considering we have no new content for relics, I much rather the tomestone option since it gives more freedom of choice.
Again, this is just if we have no new content attached to it.

My last comment was just a response to the last person complaints that I saw holes in is all.

As for what you need catching up for? It's basically just to prep for the next set of raids since all current content has already been out for a while by the time it comes out.

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I mean, we have IS, EO, and especially V&C which desperately needs some rewards tied to them, otherwise players won't do this content, no matter how good it is. More one-time rewards like new glam set, scrolls, mount, earring and materia won't fix this problem, it needs real solid rewards to make it worth. So either relics, savage gear or some brand new reward progression.

And you're really not using current 630 relic at 6.4. Crafted 640 set will be released, normal raids will give weekly-locked 640 gear, and you can buy 650 gear for new capped tomestones. If you meant next step, that releases at 6.45.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

I mean, we have IS, EO, and especially V&C which desperately needs some rewards tied to them, otherwise players won't do this content, no matter how good it is. More one-time rewards like new glam set, scrolls, mount, earring and materia won't fix this problem, it needs real solid rewards to make it worth. So either relics, savage gear or some brand new reward progression.

And you're really not using current 630 relic at 6.4. Crafted 640 set will be released, normal raids will give weekly-locked 640 gear, and you can buy 650 gear for new capped tomestones. If you meant next step, that releases at 6.45.

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Honestly not having V & C dungeons give relic materials is a huge missed opportunity. The only thing you can get from the Variant vendor right now is a glamour set, and you have to want it for it to be considered a reward. This game is starting to have a huge currency problem too, we collect different kinds of currency from nearly everything in this game and it's used for so few rewards.

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Originally Posted by Deo14

I mean, we have IS, EO, and especially V&C which desperately needs some rewards tied to them, otherwise players won't do this content, no matter how good it is. More one-time rewards like new glam set, scrolls, mount, earring and materia won't fix this problem, it needs real solid rewards to make it worth. So either relics, savage gear or some brand new reward progression.

And you're really not using current 630 relic at 6.4. Crafted 640 set will be released, normal raids will give weekly-locked 640 gear, and you can buy 650 gear for new capped tomestones. If you meant next step, that releases at 6.45.

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Variant I could see but criterion is prob too difficult for SE to consider for relics. I also feel like we would need more than one variant dungeon for it to not be an insanely repetitive grind.
IS I could see more for crafters/gatherers since there's no combat involved in there.
And EO could also work but they already have weapons attached to it.

And I was more just referring to when the next patch first hits. So people can feel at equal footing with others from the get go. But ultimately, people just like having bigger numbers in general regardless if they need the damage or not.

I dont think having VaC in a grind would be solving the problem. We have only one. How much would they have us grind it to get a step? I would rather do tomes, than going to hate one piece of content.

Also, why not Criteon or Savage, if we would make it? The harder the diffictulty, the more "light" you get, like in the old days.

Main thing I looked forward to was making old world lively again, so I would finally finish my shared fates and PF full of synced old duties and raid that would be fun to play again. But I guess only lvl 90 content is rewarding now.