Tomestones.. Again.. for a relic..

EW had a better story but I would take stormblood over this any day. eureka + classes that weren't braindead and homogenized yet. EW fell off hard and is turning into my least fav xpac.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I love the comments blaming players who "asked" for this.

If you're a professional multi-billion dollar gaming company with decades of experience and the best you can do is "farm 1500 tomes" because a handful of players "told you to", you don't deserve customers. You should be capable of making a good game by yourself, like thousands of other gaming companies out there are perfectly capable of doing.

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It wasn’t just a handful of players. There were posts weekly during Bozja/Zadnor, and Eureka with complaints. People complained on Reddit with thousands of upvotes, Twitter, social media, etc. I doubt the only reason they decided to make this step simple is solely because of the complainers, but it validated their decision. Most likely this decision is also attributed to putting the money and development time into other things, like another ultimate, deep dungeon, criterion/variant, whatever island sanctuary stuff is coming and 7.0 expansion. I am not defending the decision to make it tomes for relics, but I can see why it ended up that way.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

That's always the risk they play when they attempt to confine a relic to a particular subset of content, or as intertwined to the degree that Resistance weapons were to the Bozjan Southern Front.

There are a good dozen things they can do for the content, but they should not need to hotfix in better rewards for a piece of content in the first place, frankly speaking. I don't know how the Delubrum Reginae experience is now, but last I attempted that back in Nov~ time. I had 2 other people after a 15-minute capped queue and took a further 50 minutes complete, not that I mind this very much, but it doesn't exactly strike me as the most compelling piece of gameplay, contrary to what people might want to elude to.

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Pretty much anytime you require a level synced content it will hurt future proofing because people want to gain power as they level up, not lose it.

Its why people hate the CT raids or getting stuck in Sastasha on leveling roulette.

As usual, the playerbase causes the very simplicity they complain about usually.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

As someone who doesn't really engage in high end content in the form of Ultimates and Savage, I was more or less looking forward to some form of relic grind to keep myself busy for the time being.

While it's nice to have a gear upgrade for essentially not doing anything (already had the tomes with me), I'm left with the feeling there's nothing else to do I'm really interested in.

I was hoping the Island Sanctuary would've filled that casual and time wasting aspect, but it ended up being a glorified retainer venture you check once a week once you have the buildings set up.

I was taking a break when the Criterion Dungeon released, and was surprised to hear that it had a shorter lifespan than Lord of Verminion (it's hearsay, I don't know if that was actually the case or not, lol.)

Resubbed recently to keep my house, and to check if they had added anything interesting. I was a bit disappointed when I felt I was out of things to do after an hour or so of logging in after a several months break.

And yeah, maybe it's on me. I've been around since the ARR Beta, and the game has always had this predictable content formula over the years. However, this is the first time I've felt little reason to play at all. Maybe that says more about me than about the game. I'm mostly talking from my subjective experience.

I'm a little sad that one of the few activities I enjoyed doing was essentially scrapped and reduced to what we have now. I'll probably end up capping the Omnicron and Loporrit Beast Tribes before calling it quits. Never was too interested in Palace of the Dead content.

The only thing holding my interest right now is my house, but I'm willing to let that go if 7.0 continues the trend. More power to the people that enjoy this, though. I think it's natural for older players to move on to different games as new ones come in.

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Are you me cause I have the same exact opinion on everything you just said.

Resubbed just for this.
Ngl, pretty disappointed. The exact same step as the first one? No nudging players into dead content? Just play the game in the exact same way as you were already doing? Come on, man.
I would say that my silver lining is that at least it isn't CT spam, but since we'll have to run roulettes as normal, we're gonna be stuck in LotA jail anyways.

Heavensward relic steps up to patch 3.3 in their current form:

- FATE farming
- 10 dungeons
- Turn in Unidentified items obtained in multiple ways (company seals, crafting, raids, tribal quests, tomes, hunt seals)
- Poetics
- Crystal sand+Umbrite (multiple ways+poetics), you get to choose the stats in your weapon

EW relic in 6.35:

-1500 tomestones
-1500 tomestones again

I will not even list all the parts of the ARR weapon but by patch 2.38 there were the base weapon quest (10 stages!), Zenith, Atma, Animus, Novus and Nexus parts. I'm considering just doing a repeat of a 10-year-old relic quest in place of this garbage we got.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I love the comments blaming players who "asked" for this.

If you're a professional multi-billion dollar gaming company with decades of experience and the best you can do is "farm 1500 tomes" because a handful of players "told you to", you don't deserve customers. You should be capable of making a good game by yourself, like thousands of other gaming companies out there are perfectly capable of doing.

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But with this attitude, people will then complain "they arnt listening"
No matter what, they are wrong.

Do whats asked: bad
Innovate, take risks: bad
Do your own thing: bad

You can argue all day that its execution isnt the best, but its pretty unfair and unrealistic to expect them to get it right when there are millions of people saying different things the company should do with their game.
And then use the "billion dollar company" argument like that even means anything.....how much a company is worth isnt a defense or argument.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

But with this attitude, people will then complain "they arnt listening"
No matter what, they are wrong.

Do whats asked: bad
Innovate, take risks: bad
Do your own thing: bad

You can argue all day that its execution isnt the best, but its pretty unfair and unrealistic to expect them to get it right when there are millions of people saying different things the company should do with their game.
And then use the "billion dollar company" argument like that even means anything.....how much a company is worth isnt a defense or argument.

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I mean, I get it. I really do. And sure, people aren't always clear on what they want, but FF XIV has been on a downhill slide since EW launched. They just can't seem to stop one upping themselves with minor and major blunders. Giving players even less of a reason to log in is not good for business either. All I wanted from this relic grind was something that would give me something to progress toward. The effort required doesn't even need to be insane. It just needs to be there at all, and it's...not. I guess on a more positive note, the relics with the glow actually look decent, so there's that.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

For a game that's going downhill I'm seeing alot of congested worlds even before this patch. Numbers seemingly don't match your logic

Also if the effort isnt there at all I should be able to just log in and have all my relics done n in my inventory with no work. Thats not the case so even that is a lie

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Just because you can't see the signs yourself, that doesn't mean I'm lying. I have also never argued the popularity of the game. That remains largely unchanged for the time being, but even that can change at the drop of a hat. My concern is with the quality of the game, especially since EW dropped, which as indeed gone downhill.

I'll be honest, I was hoping for at the very least a FATE grind for this step as it'll also help me complete the Shared Fate section for either Shb or EW.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

So, in your opinion, handing in 1500 tomestones and calling it a day is content to you?

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sure, since i can do a larger number of things to get those tomestones than i can compared to the sb or shb relic. also keep in mind that we have not gotten any non-repeatable relic steps yet (remember the sb fate farming? or the 120 shb raids you had to do if you absolutely did not want to run bsf?)

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I'll be honest, I was hoping for at the very least a FATE grind for this step as it'll also help me complete the Shared Fate section for either Shb or EW.

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Everybody complained about FATE grinds in ShB. So we don't have them anymore.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I mean, I get it. I really do. And sure, people aren't always clear on what they want, but FF XIV has been on a downhill slide since EW launched. They just can't seem to stop one upping themselves with minor and major blunders. Giving players even less of a reason to log in is not good for business either. All I wanted from this relic grind was something that would give me something to progress toward. The effort required doesn't even need to be insane. It just needs to be there at all, and it's...not. I guess on a more positive note, the relics with the glow actually look decent, so there's that.

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For a game that's going downhill I'm seeing alot of congested worlds even before this patch. Numbers seemingly don't match your logic

Also if the effort isnt there at all I should be able to just log in and have all my relics done n in my inventory with no work. Thats not the case so even that is a lie

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Everybody complained about FATE grinds in ShB. So we don't have them anymore.

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*Anima step, 1st Heavensward step, all of Eureka, All of Bozja

I love this game with all of my heart, but this expansion's patch content has felt so dry compared to Shadowbringers and Stormblood. I'm glad we don't have to grind 2,000 level 50 ARR FATEs, but lordy does it feel so boring.

I don't really think either approach is exciting. Being told "farm fates because lmao" isn't that much more compelling than "hey hand in tomestones cause lmao." And let's be honest, it's not like adding a certain fate or old alliance raid or old raid clear requirement for the quest would've taken them any more time than adding a 1500 tomestone requirement, so they obviously deliberately decided against it as a design consideration, not because they're "lazy."

Personally, I feel like there ought to be something more custom, something more relevant than either of those choices. Both feel a bit soulless and disconnected from the entire concept. Filler.

Just got on the forums before playing the patch. And woah... Deeply sad to see this. Was hoping for a reason to play to get a new relic. Guess I'll just play other games and wait for elden ring dlc.

We'll Im still doing the relic anyway for potential good weapon glam. Im just disappointed that this step is the literal exact same. Not even allow a different avenue to potentially acquire them like say run Sildih or run the full set SB or Shb alliance raids

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

We'll Im still doing the relic anyway for potential good weapon glam. Im just disappointed that this step is the literal exact same. Not even allow a different avenue to potentially acquire them like say run Sildih or run the full set SB or Shb alliance raids

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I'm expecting the next upgrade to be the hellish one, since we're approaching the moment where we add substats to the weapon. As everyone knows, the substat step is often the most hellish out of them all.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm expecting the next upgrade to be the hellish one, since we're approaching the moment where we add substats to the weapon. As everyone knows, the substat step is often the most hellish out of them all.

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It'll keep many of us busy at the very least. However I dread having to revisit this relic chain in the future just like all other relic chains. The busywork is only good for when its new, afterwards you're just left with an annoying grind mess.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

You don't know what people were expecting? I don't know, maybe not the exact same step twice in a row? A journal with different targets to slay. A new trial. Some crafted parts. Materia melding. A reason to actually do the new variant/criterion content released in Endwalker. A modicum of creativity, like the devs used to have back in ARR.

You're acting like it's impossible to do a proper relic quest without Eureka/Bozja and it's simply not the case.

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You cherrypicked this out of everything else I said lmao.

Yeah ok.

I don't know what people were expecting when every since relic in basically every patch they have done a myriad of different things that plenty of players complained heavily about "I hate this content why do I need to do it for my relic this is so stupid."

Already in this thread I've seen "well they could have made it that you run old araids!"

THEY DID. THEY DID THAT IN SHB FOR BOZJA. You could run 18 CT raids, 18 Mhach raids, and 18 Ivalice raids for guaranteed drops of the coloured crystals you needed out of each area, or run fates in ARR/HW/SB areas for a non-guaranteed Atma drop rate for them to vary the content. You know what happened? 18 Syrcus Towers (because it's the quickest) and fates in HW/SB areas because "Mhach and Ivalice take too long." Same with the 6 crystals needed from any lv60 msq dungeon. People ran Antitower because it was the quickest to get what they wanted. So they didn't have to do more work.

Do you see a pattern here? It's the same with every relic prior to this too. The fastest way to gain light on the light step for the HW Lux weapon was running A1S until your brain oozed out of your ears and by god did people do that method because it was the quickest. Whatever the quickest method is, is what people want to do with the least amount of complaining beyond "god I hate this dungeon/content why do I have to run it and why do I need to run it so much."

I'm not disagreeing that this was disappointing, but to pretend it's not because of the whining and complaining of "it's too much work and I hate having to do this content to get items for my relic" is absurd, and that is why I said "I don't know what people expected."

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

It wasn’t just a handful of players. There were posts weekly during Bozja/Zadnor, and Eureka with complaints. ...

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100% this. The devs say they listen to their playerbase and go with what they say they would like. They said they hated Eureka/Bozja content, hate the running of one duty etc. and here we are. There's definitely other factors into this that we don't see (either FF16, overhauling everything graphical for 7.0, etc.) that may have had a hand in it, but to say that players complaining that everything is too hard/too grindy/I Hate This Content And I Hate Running It most definitely had a big hand in it too.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

It'll keep many of us busy at the very least. However I dread having to revisit this relic chain in the future just like all other relic chains. The busywork is only good for when its new, afterwards you're just left with an annoying grind mess.

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Oh yeah, that's why I've never gotten more than 4 maxed relics from any expansion.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

To be fair DSR is functionally ShB ultimate but regardless criterion dungeons are as deep as a roadside puddle and the deep dungeon isn’t much better, Bozja and eureka just offer so much content they dwarf anything else, SB was far better than both regardless

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Bozja is good but it is just watered down Eureka
it had 2 zones and a lard scale raid with a bonus EX trial with also Tea this was the only battle content we got
rest was Crafter and Gatherer stuff
Ishgard with diadem revived
4 custom delivery NPC
DoH/L relics
thats it EW has already surpassed ShB in terms of content

like EW we atleast had some stuff to do but ShB we literally got Bozja at 5.35 which is an expansion away from now 6.35 didn't help we were stuck in 5.3-8 for 6 months thanks to covid

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

It'll keep many of us busy at the very least. However I dread having to revisit this relic chain in the future just like all other relic chains. The busywork is only good for when its new, afterwards you're just left with an annoying grind mess.

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why? in 7.0 you'll blow through the first 2 steps of it with poetics

Clearly people don't see the genius in it being so simple. I enjoyed the manderville quests. But for someone else who doesn't like the manderville quests, its quick and painless to get this step done, especially if you go do hunt trains for your astronomy tomestones. And if your still aching for a grind, there is the splendorous tools that are a grind that were added this patch.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

And if your still aching for a grind, there is the splendorous tools that are a grind that were added this patch.

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To go with the complete lack of Beast Tribe quests for Disciples of War. SE is on a roll.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

To go with the complete lack of Beast Tribe quests for Disciples of War. SE is on a roll.

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Well I would be happy to address the elephant beast tribe in the room which is for war/magic.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Well I would be happy to address the elephant beast tribe in the room which is for war/magic.

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With no worthwhile rewards to speak of and an incredibly lame storyline. Which is kinda why people continue to pretend they don't exist. :P

Could be worse, I guess. The Omicron storyline is way worse, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

With no worthwhile rewards to speak of and an incredibly lame storyline. Could be worse, I guess.

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And yet it exists and gives good exp for leveling alt jobs. What's the problem?

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

To go with the complete lack of Beast Tribe quests for Disciples of War. SE is on a roll.

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Same as in ShB? One DoW/DoM Tribe (Arkasodara), one Gathering Tribe (Omicron) and now one Crafting Tribe (Loporrits)

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

With no worthwhile rewards to speak of and an incredibly lame storyline. Which is kinda why people continue to pretend they don't exist. :P

Could be worse, I guess. The Omicron storyline is way worse, in my opinion.

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I really liked the Omicron Storyline. : )

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Originally Posted by Heavenchild

I really liked the Omicron Storyline. : )

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Same. My favorite Tribe storyline bar none.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

Same as in ShB? One DoW/DoM Tribe (Arkasodara), one Gathering Tribe (Omicron) and now one Crafting Tribe (Loporrits)

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And very much unlike prior to ShB. I can only guess as to why they decided to reverse it. Perhaps they hoped it would provide yet another incentive for people to play DoH/L?

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

And very much unlike prior to ShB. I can only guess as to why they decided to reverse it. Perhaps they hoped it would provide yet another incentive for people to play DoH/L?

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They just wanted to better streamline the tribal quests, since they only release 3 of them at a time. Makes sense to separate each one to fit with the 3 job roles.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

And very much unlike prior to ShB. I can only guess as to why they decided to reverse it. Perhaps they hoped it would provide yet another incentive for people to play DoH/L?

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Tbh my biggest gripe is how we have overall less rewards. For Stormblood each tribe gives a mount, an emote, a minion and a glamour. Some, like Ananta, gave two mounts! Plus the emote from the allied quest. For shb we did not get a glamour, nor emotes for each tribe. Only a mount. And no allied quest (they gave that lame excuse but tbh I don't buy it). With Endwalker, we follow on the ShB path regarding rewards... Which is extremely lame, given that the glamour/emote used to be my favorite thing about tribes.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

Tbh my biggest gripe is how we have overall less rewards. For Stormblood each tribe gives a mount, an emote, a minion and a glamour. Some, like Ananta, gave two mounts! Plus the emote from the allied quest. For shb we did not get a glamour, nor emotes for each tribe. Only a mount. And no allied quest (they gave that lame excuse but tbh I don't buy it). With Endwalker, we follow on the ShB path regarding rewards... Which is extremely lame, given that the glamour/emote used to be my favorite thing about tribes.

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To be fair, one ananta mount was a recolor. But yeah, agreed on the emotes. Feel like every tribe should offer at least one emote. I am assuming we'll get an allied quest in EW. No excuse not to, really. Some glamours would be nice. Loporrits could have given a version of their outfit, Omicrons could've given the outfit of those Karellian guys.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

We gave up an exploratory zone and relic quests for island sanctuary and dead content criterions.

This is what happens when the casual playerbase get a say in the game's endgame content.

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I play this game casually, dont lump me in with them. Its not the "casuals"

its the "i pay a monthly sub to afk in this game and everything that takes more effort than 30minutes roulette or cant be bought on the market board with my hoarded gil is elitist" crowd

I just wish that they do the same way as HW relic or atleast ARR relic, except we don't have to equip the weapon to do it, just use materials that will drop from the content when the quest is active.

Let us farm fates in ShB or EW so that we can clear shared fate and get bicolor gemstone as well.

Let us do Ivalice and nier raid because most players skip them and struggling with the queue

Let us do Omega and Eden raid because most players struggling with the queue

This is also helping us leveling our alt jobs for doing old content.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Remember when we had 4 eureka zones for relic steps and everyone complained and hated it and said they wanted the old tomestone grinds back from Heavensward?

Remember when we had to do 15 DR and people just wanted their old content crystal tower farms back?

So now SE is letting people do whatever content they want as long as it gives the tomestones.

Tbh people asked for boring old content and they got it. It’s the people attacking eureka as a concept that got us here so I hope they enjoy it.

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i liked the eureka zones. i didn't like having to farm for light and then crystals and then consolidate the light into more crystals and then having 14 different types of crystal clogging my inv while waiting for a NM to spawn that i spent like half an hour trying not to die while murdering enemies only for some doorknob who afk'd the entire time to snipe it as soon as it spawns.

i also hated how the game was/is like "oh you'll have to ask other people on what to do for the next step. :3c hoohoo hoo hooooo" like god damn just give me the coordinates, tell me how to make this stupid logos action and stop making which nm i have to murder a mystery that i find out i missed out on killing like 5 minutes before and now have to wait for a new instance just to get it to spawn.

I enjoy Eureka and Bojza and I wish they had done a new zone for this relic weapon.
And to please people who want the grind and people who hate it.

If you do a new zone for the relic weapon you get it alot faster but you can also use the tombstone turn in if you didn't want to do the grind or didn't like the new zone.