A game for 4 year olds

Case in point: the new variant dungeon actually explores a true-to-the-definition genocide that happened in-universe of the game world.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Gonna spoiler-tag this out of courtesy for the people who haven't yet done it, which I suspect the most talkative people here might not have!

'Robots learn they have feelings' is not exactly a new concept even in this game, but I'm a sucker for it. And I like that a not insignificant part of the quest is about Jammingway having to meet N-7000 where it's at, rather than entirely N-7000 being the one doing the growing.

Interesting that the Nibirun still haven't been resolved; the Bloodsworn capstone is rarely used for story development, so maybe they're beeing held back for another quest. Perhaps the allied tribe quest?

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Will there even be an allied tribe questline in the future ? SHB didn't get one, so i was under the impression that they won't do these anymore.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

No, the thing that makes it fictionalized is that it's a complete bag of fantastical nonsense that doesn't resemble any act that's ever happened in human history.

I've stopped comparing acts by Hydaelyn or the Ascians as genocide, because to do so would be to take away from the serious nature of genocide as a concept; it does not deserve to be thrown around to refer to fantastical fictional concepts like the Sundering, a worldwide flood, or even a Rejoining; not to mention, pinning that badge on those story beats is very clearly against the spirit of what the game is trying to do with all of those story beats. The term 'genocide' should reasonably only be brought up when referring to things that actually resemble real-world acts that have been called such, of which FFXIV is not free of, so we should probably save that term for when it's more apropos.


Incidentally, have you been doing the quests that you started this thread to talk about? Because I have, and I find it more interesting than this derail, so let's get back to it.

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If that goes against the plot of the game then it shouldn't have been what they wrote, they even do a scene where she condemns the ancients before succouring them for existence and I don't appreciate your gatekeeping, genocide seems a apt term where she exterminates a race and its' culture for having the wrong kind of biology and society

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

No, the thing that makes it fictionalized is that it's a complete bag of fantastical nonsense that doesn't resemble any act that's ever happened in human history.

I've stopped comparing acts by Hydaelyn or the Ascians as genocide, because to do so would be to take away from the serious nature of genocide as a concept; it does not deserve to be thrown around to refer to fantastical fictional concepts like the Sundering, a worldwide flood, or even a Rejoining; not to mention, pinning that badge on those story beats is very clearly against the spirit of what the game is trying to do with all of those story beats. The term 'genocide' should reasonably only be brought up when referring to things that actually resemble real-world acts that have been called such, of which FFXIV is not free of, so we should probably save that term for when it's more apropos.

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No, a bag of fantastical nonsense does not negate the actual similarities. Just because you don’t want to process it does not make it so distant from the real-life events. Anyway, I agree that the term “genocide” should be used for events that actually resemble it, so let’s see.

“ In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group." These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.”

Pretty much all of this applies to Venat except transferring children. She acted with the intent to destroy and eliminate ancients because with reasoning that is very similar to eugenics as well, “they were born unable to interact with Dynamis and thus are imperfect”. The erasure of memory also meant annihilation of their culture, which is yet another common trait of genocide. It’s not hard to play the game if that’s what you wish to do.

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Originally Posted by Ayche

Case in point: the new variant dungeon actually explores a true-to-the-definition genocide that happened in-universe of the game world.

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Yeah, Si'Dih actually IS a pretty clear-cut example of genocide by actual real-world comaprisons, even down to using familiar tools to do it. Smooshing planets into each other or magically separating everyone's soul into fourteen pieces is something rather different than actual use of a bioweapon plague to eradicate an entire people and then build on top of their corpses. (The variant dungeon's great, by the way, I wish I had more time to plumb at it than I do right now.)

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Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

Will there even be an allied tribe questline in the future ? SHB didn't get one, so i was under the impression that they won't do these anymore.

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Shadowbringers didn't get one for the same reason DSR got delayed; as much as they were able to get done in pandemic conditions, the delays that resulted still meant things had to get cut, and they (rightly) prioritized the stuff that's a lot more mainstream. Shadowbringers also had the excuse of being pretty far away from the guy that's usually the impetus for the allied quests, so it was also pretty easy for them to say 'yeah we won't do it this time'. No evidence says they'll do the same for Endwalker's. And I hope they don't, I can't imagine a better match for the Hippo Riders than a pretty far-flung restaurant!

And back on topic......

Whilst I haven't played this yet (I haven't looked levelling Disciples of the Land yet) I do hope they continue it. It'd be really interesting to get mini-Midgardsormr's view on these events.

I think I'm mostly interested in the potential question of whether or not the denizens of Ultima Thule would rather go live on Etheriys if the possibility exists for them.

The Ragnarok is essentially functioning as a teleporter between the two points now so it theoretically wouldn't be difficult for them to come visit barring some weird shenanigans involving dynamis or some such.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I think I'm mostly interested in the potential question of whether or not the denizens of Ultima Thule would rather go live on Etheriys if the possibility exists for them.

The Ragnarok is essentially functioning as a teleporter between the two points now so it theoretically wouldn't be difficult for them to come visit barring some weird shenanigans involving dynamis or some such.

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Yeah, that'd definitely be good!

And in terms of the Ultima Thule Dragons, it'd be great to see how they'd react to/interact with mini-Midgardsormr and the remaining Dravanian Horde Dragons.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Shadowbringers didn't get one for the same reason DSR got delayed; as much as they were able to get done in pandemic conditions, the delays that resulted still meant things had to get cut, and they (rightly) prioritized the stuff that's a lot more mainstream. Shadowbringers also had the excuse of being pretty far away from the guy that's usually the impetus for the allied quests, so it was also pretty easy for them to say 'yeah we won't do it this time'. No evidence says they'll do the same for Endwalker's. And I hope they don't, I can't imagine a better match for the Hippo Riders than a pretty far-flung restaurant!

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Ah that's a shame for Shadowbringers, i was looking forward to see the shard of that masked Miqo'te. He could even have had his mask on the other side of his face, would have been a funny interaction.
For Endwalker, I can totally see the Uber Eats elephants serve food from the edge of the universe and the moon. I can imagine the Miqo'te trying to smuggle the jellyfish mount too ! That would be a funny little plot.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Yeah, that'd definitely be good!

And in terms of the Ultima Thule Dragons, it'd be great to see how they'd react to/interact with mini-Midgardsormr and the remaining Dravanian Horde Dragons.

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If they decide to wake up Midgardsormr at a earlier point than when he does in G'raha original timeline, i would definitely be interested in his interactions with these dragons.
Something like the lvl 90 Omega sidequest could be nice to show some of his insights about it.

I doubt it would happen, but taking the Studium professors on a field trip to the Last Dregs would be amusing given that they're all hyped up to take the Ragnarok on an expedition to meet some alien races after the final quest there, but are now capable of doing so in a more leisurely manner.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm not going to engage deeply with that argument again because it's already been beaten to death in several other topics, but I still find myself thoroughly puzzled by why they couldn't have given Venat a more...concrete reason for her decision, as opposed to being based strictly on possibilities and the knowledge that mankind is still alive in the future for the time being.

It makes no sense to attach numerous shades of gray to a course of action, then double down on defending it as having been the right and best course. At that point you're better off just taking the black and white approach to avoid creating a weird tonal dissonance.

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It's essentially the trolley problem, whatever she decides to do, someone is getting wiped out. The options she has are to try and save the unsundered world, or to try and save the six remaining sundered worlds.

Whichever side she picks will then, at some point, have to deal with the Meteion issue.

Feel kinda guilty for just crashing in and dropping that series of bombshells on her to be honest. Can't say I envy the position we left her in when we buggered off back to the present.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I can't recall any situations even remotely near the same level of urgency throughout the MSQ save for the tail end of Shadowbringers, which incidentally was a much stronger push to see things through to see the end then what I got from anything in Endwalker.

I honestly think I got more catharsis from (Hopefully...) being rid of Zenos for good then I did the whole "saved the entire world" bit because it didn't feel like it was in grave danger it was stated to be with how limited the scope of the Final Days was.

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There are people who feel or felt that we shouldn't have been able to enter Ul'dah, Limsa or Gridania back when 2.55 and before we learn Nanamo hadn't actually died. Or have more people react in the towns when baby Dalamud was in the sky. Or when the Towers appeared. Basically any time the skybox got changed or something that should have had a bigger impact than just a zone or two. Like how no one but that Dwarven town reacted to a different part of the mountain side exploding due to the Nier shenanigans.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

There are people who feel or felt that we shouldn't have been able to enter Ul'dah, Limsa or Gridania back when 2.55 and before we learn Nanamo hadn't actually died. Or have more people react in the towns when baby Dalamud was in the sky. Or when the Towers appeared. Basically any time the skybox got changed or something that should have had a bigger impact than just a zone or two. Like how no one but that Dwarven town reacted to a different part of the mountain side exploding due to the Nier shenanigans.

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Whats funny is i didnt leave the heavensward zones until nanamo was rescued because i genuinely thought i couldnt lol. Wasnt until a year or so later i learned otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

It's not play victim, but calling people out on hypocrisy. During an argument about EW, someone said to my face that me not able to moved on after traumatic experience is wrong because "you have to forge ahead".
So yeah, how isn't that not "telling people how to deal with loss"?

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Maybe because we know that wallowing in grief and not finding a way to move on some how isn't a good thing for people to do? Now that doesn't mean you have to instantly move on or that you can't have some time to process what happened. But staying there and in that mindset isn't healthy for anyone. If you took it as them telling you that you have to move on right after you suffered a loss then I think that's on you. As I would really hope anyone who said that didn't mean it like that. And yeah people deal with grief differently. Some throw themselves into their work and do their best to keep busy as having a moment to sit and think about said loss is going to take them to a bad place. Then there are those who just need a day or two of sobbing before they're right as rain again. Others still will opt for a destructive approach. Which can be fine depending on what form it takes. Heck there are even those who get into a creative need that they need to ride out.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

Democracy isn’t beyond criticism and not all fictional states have to be made democratic. Keeping Empire as is allows to have more variety in the story and is imo a good choice instead of completely wrecking it or making another bland democratic state by Alphinaud’s hand.

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Oh boy, here we go with the same old tired argument that Garlemald needs to stay an empire due to "variety".

Most states in the game are not democratic to begin with, and those that changed their governments each had a completely valid reason of doing so. Each had lost their entire ruling class and had recent histories of absolute monarchs becoming tyrants that ruined their countries.

Garlemald was a democratic republic for 600 years. The empire was specifically built by an outsider who had no love for the Garleans or Garlemald and it was intended to fall apart. They had two civil wars over the succession of the throne that destroyed the homeland and killed scores of Garleans. The Garleans ended up destroying their own empire by themselves without the need of rebels or revolution and that happened before Endwalker so the expansion can't be blamed for that. What point is there to keep an empire going when the capital city is a pile of rubble and every single time a leader dies, the legions fight each other and kill their own people?

Aveyond's fanfiction is poorly researched when it comes to the lore we know on Garlemald, which is to be expected of one who has Russian in the Cyrillic script in his signature representing Garlemald despite the fact that all the people, places, and objects named by Garleans are in Latin. His story has a pretty, blonde Grand Duchess (title that doesn't exist) become heir to the throne (women aren't allowed to, according to Garlean society), with a super special unique Russian/Hrothgar name instead of a Latin one (Svetlana) get locked away by Varis because she liked a non-Garlean before coming back and taking over the empire. The senate is portrayed by Aveyond as being evil and doing acts of terrorism against the general populace and assassinating nobles despite the fact that in the actual game they're a powerless and divided faction with different ideas and one of the factions themselves is purged by Varis. That little tidbit coming right after a preachy spiel about how "democracy is bad and the empire knows better for its people" and Alphinuad being laughed at for "pitching democracy" feels like bad writing and a giant over-correction based on the writer's views.

But sure, the denizens of Garlemald would be thrilled to have another Galvus on the throne because the past year has been AWESOME and the Garlean people will put their full-support behind their new empress, a Garlean woman pregnant with a baby from the leader of a recently rebelling province despite the fact that Garleans of all social strata refer to non-Garleans as "savages". The people should be happy that they're continuing their ancient, storied (60 years), tradition of having a ruler from the family that has tried to varying degrees of success to kill their own people three times before, but the fourth time must be the charm.

What's even the point of a story where after fighting against the oppressive, expansionist Garlean Empire, the end goal is to... slap some lady on the throne and call it a day because well, Garleans are just suited to being ruled by a monarch, and some of thier vassal states are better off being colonized by them anyway. What's the theme here meant to be? What's the message?

But she is pretty and nice, unlike Shtola who was a ... 3 or something? I don't quite recall and I am too lazy to search for that thread.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

His story has a pretty, blonde Grand Duchess (title that doesn't exist) become heir to the throne (women aren't allowed to, according to Garlean society), with a super special unique Russian/Hrothgar name instead of a Latin one (Svetlana) get locked away by Varis because she liked a non-Garlean before coming back and taking over the empire.

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He seems to like this name, since his one female alt is named that way. A blondish elezen. Hmm is that some kind of self insert?

Anyway I am a bit sad that people still defend him after that post a few pages back.

Thankfully this beast tribe is here to raise my mood again. I loved what they did with the last quest and the new mount has a spot on my hotbar.
Wonder if the Ra La people will be the subject of the last upgrade. I doubt they would keep that open until the allied questline (if we even get one).

To add to what I said before, I have no problem with the idea of monarchies on their own. My personal opinion is that just as in real life, democracy isn't for everyone and not for every country. The writers don't necessarily have a problem with monarchies either, or else Doma would not have remained a monarchy at the end and Hien would have been all "let's give the power to the people instead" like Aymeric, who had good reason to do so considering his dad's regime lived on a lie and the people who were angry about that now have ideas and also guns.


Ala Mhigo, Garlemald, Eulmore, and Bozja's monarchies end with no clear or willing successors. In Ala Mhigo's case, the country is taken by force by a rebellion made up of commoners. There is one royal successor who refuses to be ruler and would have no supporting noble class to rule with anyway. In what world would it make sense for them to select a random person and say "you, who have no experience ruling a country shall rule for life and so shall your descendants"? You can't have a monarchy out of just 1 guy descended from other guys. It requires a whole supporting structure and power/legitimacy which is usually made up of the nobility leading a strong and regimented social structure plus the military and often the religious addition: "it's this way with these people because the divine said so". Remove any one of those and your monarchy doesn't have anything to sit upon.

Besides the aforementioned Ishgard, Ala Mhigo and Bozja were taken by rebel forces with egalitarian ideas after their country's previous regimes were already conquered, replaced, and either don't exist anymore or at least aren't present in the newly conquering rebelling armies.

Eulmore was just 1 guy who created a super unbalanced and messed up society and fed his own people to each other to control them. After being killed as a Light Warden and leaving a power vacuum, it would leave a bad taste in players' mouths if the writers decided to elect a new mayor-for-life among the super elite who were living extravagantly like the world is ending (because it was) off the backs of people who are thrown off the city, turned into monsters, and live in shacks amongst garbage.

As for Garlemald, they had 2 civil wars over the legitimacy of the government determined by legions having different ideas and different factions. Now the remaining legions that we know about are completely depleted, have become POWs and give support to the Ilsabard Contingent, or both. The royal family and related nobles are dead.

Aveyond's story even required making up someone random that came from nowhere with no prior build-up or mention at all in earlier content, with no support from existing factions inside Garlemald, and inventing new and contradicting rules of succession for them to take the Garlean throne. She is chosen by Gaius (who by the way is believed by the entire Garlean populace as Varis' murderer in the lore of the actual game) as "oh, she'll do" and just happens to come with baggage including being pregnant with the baby from a rebel leader and ex-lord of a province who just fought and beat back the Garleans to regain his country and is suddenly is A-OK with Garlean hegemony when he learns his baby momma is supported by the Scions for the Garlean throne.


Anyways, the Domans still support their monarch, who is still alive and isn't a tyrant, and his form of government is perfectly fine for their people. Just like how Thavnair has been ruled for ages by an immortal dragon and there's no problem with that either. He was willing to step away from ruling after the secret was revealed but the people are fine with him and wanted him to stay. The Dalmascan rebels we work with are trying to put Princess Ashe back on the throne. If there was a story or expansion in the game that revolved around a corrupt and evil democracy with a princess of a fallen house supported by the people in the hiding, the WoL would probably help the princess restore the monarchy, and that would be perfectly fine and be a good story.

But I guess mentioning Doma, Thavnair, and Dalmasca trying to keep or restore their monarchies with popular support doesn't suit forum goers who need to insist that the writers have a political agenda and that Alphinaud is knocking on doors and spreading the word of archon loaf, democracy, and the Sharlayan way.

This four (plus a few decades) year old thoroughly enjoyed the concluding quest. I'm expecting to see the Nibirun finally have their change of heart in the rank 8 quest. There's no way we're not getting their pretty location added to Elysion – it's been a request since Explorer mode only had the grey aftermath, and the Elysian sky has been based on theirs from the beginning!

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It makes no sense to attach numerous shades of gray to a course of action, then double down on defending it as having been the right and best course. At that point you're better off just taking the black and white approach to avoid creating a weird tonal dissonance.

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Agreed. I think either there's a clash of plans amongst the writers, or the whole "balanced on all sides" thing is just an ideal they theoretically want their plot to reach, but in practice they either don't know how to get there or they don't actually like that prospect in a real plot as much as they think they do when they're at the basic drafting stage.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Aveyond's fanfiction is poorly researched when it comes to the lore we know on Garlemald, which is to be expected of one who has Russian in the Cyrillic script in his signature representing Garlemald despite the fact that all the people, places, and objects named by Garleans are in Latin. His story has a pretty, blonde Grand Duchess (title that doesn't exist) become heir to the throne (women aren't allowed to, according to Garlean society), with a super special unique Russian/Hrothgar name instead of a Latin one (Svetlana) get locked away by Varis because she liked a non-Garlean before coming back and taking over the empire. The senate is portrayed by Aveyond as being evil and doing acts of terrorism against the general populace and assassinating nobles despite the fact that in the actual game they're a powerless and divided faction with different ideas and one of the factions themselves is purged by Varis. That little tidbit coming right after a preachy spiel about how "democracy is bad and the empire knows better for its people" and Alphinuad being laughed at for "pitching democracy" feels like bad writing and a giant over-correction based on the writer's views.

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Yeah I noticed the Russian thing too...and considering how he thinks Garlemald is the greatest thing since sliced bread...all his posts and line of thinking totally makes sense... he probably worships his country's leader's feet and wants Russia to expand just like Garlemald does and basically sees everyone else as "savages", just like Garlemald does. All this makes perfect sense when he has these unusual "standards" of people who enjoy the story and the idea of wanting female characters who are yes-men doormat bootlickers.

I don't want to call him a you-know-what sympathizer but...it all points to that direction and puts him in a very bad light now that the dots are connected. His posts about loss also makes sense to this too, considering he probably thinks most of the posters here are sub-human...

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Originally Posted by Kazemon15

Yeah I noticed the Russian thing too...and considering how he thinks Garlemald is the greatest thing since sliced bread...all his posts and line of thinking totally makes sense... he probably worships his country's leader's feet and wants Russia to expand just like Garlemald does and basically sees everyone else as "savages", just like Garlemald does. All this makes perfect sense when he has these unusual "standards" of people who enjoy the story and the idea of wanting female characters who are yes-men doormat bootlickers.

I don't want to call him a you-know-what sympathizer but...it all points to that direction and puts him in a very bad light now that the dots are connected. His posts about loss also makes sense to this too, considering he probably thinks most of the posters here are sub-human...

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Do you see why it’s impossible for me to take you seriously?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Do you see why it’s impossible for me to take you seriously?

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The rest of us can say the same about you chief.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm expecting to see the Nibirun finally have their change of heart in the rank 8 quest. There's no way we're not getting their pretty location added to Elysion – it's been a request since Explorer mode only had the grey aftermath, and the Elysian sky has been based on theirs from the beginning!

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I would love to see the Nibirun tree restored as a vista in Elysian. It's beautiful.

It is sad to see that this place has fallen to the aforementioned individuals. While there is little to discuss at length in General until the next Live Letter, hopefully something more intriguing comes along and that those who inhabit these parts remain so.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It is sad to see that this place has fallen to the aforementioned individuals. While there is little to discuss at length in General until the next Live Letter, hopefully something more intriguing comes along and that those who inhabit these parts remain so.

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I would also like to see a revival of the lore subforum, but I wouldn't count on it. Unless a wave of new people or returning players arrive, lore is most likely going to remain as an echo chamber for the foreseeable future. Again, just let them fester and rot here. They wanted an echo chamber, let them have it. If nothing else, the lore subforum might act as containment to quarantine the madness that is festering here and prevent it from spreading too much.

I'm afraid it's too late, the infection of "people who think Endwalker's writing is fine, or even good" has spread to all corners of the internet, and even real life. It's the endemic background hum of the vast majority of discussions about Endwalker out there.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

I'm afraid it's too late, the infection of "people who think Endwalker's writing is fine, or even good" has spread to all corners of the internet, and even real life.

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That's not what I'm referring to and that's pretty obvious to those who aren't intentionally being disingenuous. This is exactly why I dislike the lore forum so much. Everyone here is so disingenuous all of the time.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

That's not what I'm referring to and that's pretty obvious to those who aren't intentionally being disingenuous. This is exactly why I dislike the lore forum so much. Everyone here is so disingenuous all of the time.

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Back on your "We're being attacked for not liking Endwalker!" stuff ain't ya?

I'm not sure what any of the posters you listed in your diatribe are supposed to have in common other than "having a generally favorable impression of Endwalker's writing". You'd probably see less enemies if you stopped lumping everyone who disagrees with your particular criticisms into a singular hivemind.

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Originally Posted by Kazemon15

Yeah I noticed the Russian thing too...and considering how he thinks Garlemald is the greatest thing since sliced bread...all his posts and line of thinking totally makes sense... he probably worships his country's leader's feet and wants Russia to expand just like Garlemald does and basically sees everyone else as "savages", just like Garlemald does. All this makes perfect sense when he has these unusual "standards" of people who enjoy the story and the idea of wanting female characters who are yes-men doormat bootlickers.

I don't want to call him a you-know-what sympathizer but...it all points to that direction and puts him in a very bad light now that the dots are connected. His posts about loss also makes sense to this too, considering he probably thinks most of the posters here are sub-human...

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I'm referring to stuff like this. It has nothing to do with whether or not you like or dislike Endwalker. A good portion of my friends like Endwalker and I have no problem with them because they're not disingenuous and don't say/do things like calling people Russian sympathizers if they like Garlemald. I've sadly had the displeasure of interacting with the people I've listed and each has earned my distaste for them by being intellectually dishonest.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I'm referring to stuff like this. It has nothing to do with whether or not you like or dislike Endwalker.

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Ah yes, because Aveyond saying people are lying about losing loved ones, calling them less than human and deranged for disagreeing and telling him otherwise is totally not a "circus ringleader" and "beyond help", am I right? Because defending someone who loves Putin is A-ok, but someone defending they like a fictional character is the devil.

Aveyond assumes people are lying and all sorts of things about posters' lives because they disagree with him, I'm just returning the favor based on his posts. He loves Garlemald and constantly wants to be on the "bad" guy's side, wants Garlemald story to be that they enslave the other nations and kick the main characters to the curb because he doesn't like them and hates women who talk back. Based on that and the recent world events, I was just pointing out the interesting connections.

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Originally Posted by Kazemon15

Aveyond assumes people are lying

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He assumes you're lying because a good number of you people have 1) lied to him in the past and proven yourselves to be intellectually disingenuous, and 2) have given him reasons to not take you seriously and believe what you're saying. (Example: the garlemald = Russia thing) Is Aveyond a little harsh when stating that? Maybe. But most of his claims certainly aren't wrong, even if they're not popular. I'm not sure if he called someone 'less than human' (didn't see it if he did), if he did I think that's a little much, but I'm not going to judge him for that when there's been far worse in this thread from other posters.

To be quite frank, I don't believe some of the claims made here either. Does that make me cold-hearted? No, I just think the people who made them aren't to be trusted due to their history and thus I don't believe them. A good amount of the people here have been disingenuous in the past and thus I don't buy into their claims now. Sure, some of the claims might be real, but it's the poster who cried wolf situation. I can't trust those posters to tell the truth, so even if they do now, I can't trust them. In addition, some of the stuff said here does indeed feel like gaslighting and people saying what they need to say to win arguments even when what they're claiming isn't true.

I am nothing if not consistent when it comes to people attempting to emotionally manipulate me and others both irl and online. I have 0 tolerance for this sort of behavior, and find it incredibly unbecoming and downright strange that the common notion of not believing everything strangers say on the internet is now something apparently novel.

There is little else worth addressing. I am none of the things that certain posters are so quick to paint me as. I do not see the need to go on at length about this.

Endwalker should not have spawned these sorts of discussions. I want to be back in the Heavensward, Stormblood patches, and Shadowbringers era of fun speculation and anticipation. Not whatever this is.

I'm a ringleader? I stopped posting my videos here because I can tell nobody actually clicks through to them from here; if I was leading anything I'd hope I'd get more out of it than that. Basically the only element of value I have is having a higher rate of saying decent points than people like Awesome and Aveyond, and frankly, that ain't a high bar. I'm not exactly saying huge stuff, I mostly just make observations that require baseline reading comprehension.

If you think a story is being written for four year olds, but frequently misunderstand it anyway, maybe it's time to reach a four year old's reading level.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I'm a ringleader? I stopped posting my videos here because I can tell nobody actually clicks through to them from here; if I was leading anything I'd hope I'd get more out of it than that. Basically the only element of value I have is having a higher rate of saying decent points than people like Awesome and Aveyond, and frankly, that ain't a high bar. I'm not exactly saying huge stuff, I mostly just make observations that require baseline reading comprehension.

If you think a story is being written for four year olds, but frequently misunderstand it anyway, maybe it's time to reach a four year old's reading level.

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Then by all means why don't you grace us with a rewrite of your own? One that preferably avoids the terrible mishandling of grief, depression, and genocide in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

He assumes you're lying because a good number of you people have 1) lied to him in the past and proven yourselves to be intellectually disingenuous, and 2) have given him reasons to not take you seriously and believe what you're saying. (Example: the garlemald = Russia thing) Is Aveyond a little harsh when stating that? Maybe. But most of his claims certainly aren't wrong, even if they're not popular. I'm not sure if he called someone 'less than human' (didn't see it if he did), if he did I think that's a little much, but I'm not going to judge him for that when there's been far worse in this thread from other posters.

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I'm not sure when or how I've been disingenuous. Meanwhile you continue to belittle, talk down to, make fun of several people. And even though you say you might not agree with some people you never are seen doing so. You tend to ignore various things while acting as a person's personal defense force. All you ever seem to do is attack people so why should anyone want to even try to have a discussion with you.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

That's not what I'm referring to and that's pretty obvious to those who aren't intentionally being disingenuous. This is exactly why I dislike the lore forum so much. Everyone here is so disingenuous all of the time.

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The guy you're defending had no better response to a 10-sentence-long post I made so he called it an essay, said he gave it only a "passing glance" and then tagged the thread with "essay writer's guild". But sure, everyone else is the problem.

The issue is that you're accusing people of lying about an incredibly common human experience of lost a loved one or family member.

Most people in the world have in fact, experienced grief or loss in thier life. Why on earth would anyone ever need or want to lie about something like that? You might as well accuse someone of lying about having parents, or going to school.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I'm a ringleader? I stopped posting my videos here because I can tell nobody actually clicks through to them from here;

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For the record, I did actually quite like them. I was wondering if you had made anymore since the last time I watched one.