the normal content is too easy

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Ok I can understand wanting things to be rearranged in their release order, but now I'm really curious. Do you just want to grind?

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If it's a fun grind like Bozja, sure. If it's a flaming and completely disjointed experience like Eureka was, no.

It's always amusing to me that housing is pushed as 'content' when the vast majority of players cannot even access it and likely never will. I say this as someone lucky enough to own a mansion, mind you.

Of course, you don't need to own a house to enter one but I rather suspect a lot of players share my aversion to the creepy player led nightclubs, casinos and brothels that are frequently exposed as being home to groomers. I shudder in disgust at the thought!

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If it's a fun grind like Bozja, sure. If it's a flaming and completely disjointed experience like Eureka was, no.

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Gotcha, we are on very different view points then. I avoid Bozja and Eureka like the plague. I don't mind the zones existing but I really wish that relics were not tied to it.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's always amusing to me that housing is pushed as 'content' when the vast majority of players cannot even access it and likely never will. I say this as someone lucky enough to own a mansion, mind you.

Of course, you don't need to own a house to enter one but I rather suspect a lot of players share my aversion to the creepy player led nightclubs, casinos and brothels that are frequently exposed as being home to groomers. I shudder in disgust at the thought!

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If I took a drink every time I walked into someone's house and the basement has the stripper pole/stage/nightclub layout, my liver would be a completely shrivelled up mass of scar tissue.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The content that drew me to this game is battle content. If it has nothing to do with fighting, it is unlikely to interest me or get me to chase after a reward unless it has something extremely sought after at the end of it. This did not hold for Ishgard Restoration for the most part. This also does not hold for Gold Saucer. Gold Saucer activities are jumping puzzles and minigames, not fights.



You cannot sell me a sub on minigames alone. Thank goodness I have an army of alts and a backlog of gear to collect, otherwise there would be no justification to stay subbed beyond the first month of these earlier patches that lack relic/exploratory content.

Adventurer Plates I fully support as they are a good avenue of player expression and do not have the massive accessibility issues that Housing does, and are likely to appear at the start of instances moving forward like they will start doing in PVP in 6.1. They are not as pointless as stickers, nor are they as limited as most fashion accessories, who I remember got over 30 minutes dedicated to them in a Shadowbringers live letter once.

I am thankful that patch 6.1 will be giving me at least something long term to do in the form of the new PVP gear at the end of that grind, but I see no reason as to why things like a Deep Dungeon or the first step of a relic *must* be delayed for so long after initial launch.

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I tend to agree on Deep Dungeon or relics though if the relic step is too easy then people will just complain about how fast it is. I think because they're trying this new format of releasing side quests later that that got pulled in. This whole format with ending a story at 6.0 is something new. I'm willing to give them this time to experiment. Maybe doing this lets them balance out their personnel resources more evenly so people can get vacations and days off. And if we go through these patches up to 7.0 and it doesn't quite work, we can offer feedback on where this or that patch felt more bare and suggest maybe releasing X content earlier or later.

To Kaurhz, I think maybe it's the phrase itself. "Go play other games" kind of implies they aren't welcome in this one. Everyone is welcome in this one. I think the spirit of the idea is to enjoy your time in the game. Don't force yourself to log in just because you think you have to. And if you aren't feeling it that night, don't. That's the path to burn out. Do something else that is fun. XIV is designed so that it will be there when you get back.

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Originally Posted by Skyborne

If I took a drink every time I walked into someone's house and the basement has the stripper pole/stage/nightclub layout, my liver would be a completely shrivelled up mass of scar tissue.

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How sheltered
lol

i'm going to be honest here, I find the comments about the lack of content quite amusing.

Prior to FFXIV becoming my primary game, I'd played another MMO for over a decade. That game was/is of the Free to Play variety and whilst that model was, originally, quite generous it became less and less so to the point where it's business model revolved around FOMO fueled events and sleazy gambleboxes courtesy of an EP with a background in smartphone games. Said business model resulted in that game priortising cash shop 'tools' to play within the game rather than actual game content. These days the content drops generally comprise of one new episode (good for about 20 - 30 minutes of play time) every four or five months and the 'events' simply put new rewards into recycled content.
It also sufferred from Powercreep. But we're not talking the sort of powercreep I see discussed here. The last time I played that game I joined a queue for a piece of so-called 'Advanced' content which used to take approximately fifteen minutes to complete; it was over in literally twenty seconds.

I started playing FFXIV mid-December, generally playing for a few hours almost every evening (and a little longer when had days off work here and there). It took me slightly over three months to get from the start to the current end of the MSQ. The other game that I played for over a decade? No exaggeration; a new player can get from start to finish in about a week.

So between the sleazy business model, the Devs inability/ lacking interest in address the overwhelming levels of powercreep and the only new content being "buy this new thing", I decided to follow a friend's persistent recommendations and try FFXIV. And I haven't looked back. Complain all you will, but it could be a LOT worse.

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Originally Posted by MistyMew

How sheltered
lol

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Im sorry but your comment combined with your signature is just....hilarious to me.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

i'm going to be honest here, I find the comments about the lack of content quite amusing.

Prior to FFXIV becoming my primary game, I'd played another MMO for over a decade. That game was/is of the Free to Play variety and whilst that model was, originally, quite generous it became less and less so to the point where it's business model revolved around FOMO fueled events and sleazy gambleboxes courtesy of an EP with a background in smartphone games. Said business model resulted in that game priortising cash shop 'tools' to play within the game rather than actual game content. These days the content drops generally comprise of one new episode (good for about 20 - 30 minutes of play time) every four or five months and the 'events' simply put new rewards into recycled content.
It also sufferred from Powercreep. But we're not talking the sort of powercreep I see discussed here. The last time I played that game I joined a queue for a piece of so-called 'Advanced' content which used to take approximately fifteen minutes to complete; it was over in literally twenty seconds.

I started playing FFXIV mid-December, generally playing for a few hours almost every evening (and a little longer when had days off work here and there). It took me slightly over three months to get from the start to the current end of the MSQ. The other game that I played for over a decade? No exaggeration; a new player can get from start to finish in about a week.

So between the sleazy business model, the Devs inability to address the overwhelming levels of powercreep and the only new content being "buy this new thing", I decided to follow a friend's persistent recommendations and try FFXIV. And I haven't looked back. Complain all you will, but it could be a LOT worse.

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A lot of this sounds like 14 tho. Bland events that are typically completed in 30 mins and usually just have housing items as rewards? Check.
New rewards put into recycled content? Literally Unreal trials.
Powercreep problem could be the equivalent of the horrible job design problems atm, where an entire role is being shafted and the devs arent communicating with it whatsoever.
One new msq episode every 4-5 months that typically lasts an hour? Maybe 2 if youre slower? Sounds like 14.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Complain all you will, but it could be a LOT worse.

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This argument always amuses me.
Do you realize that it could also be better?

There are MMOs with auto-play mode, so I suppose healers should be happy that they get to spam one button and occasionally a dot for 10min straight, correct?
There are MMOs without housing, so I suppose we should be happy that only a select few can own one at all.
There are MMOs that don't even have dungeons, so be happy that we have them at all and don't you dare be bored with them after they followed the exact same formula for years on end.

FFXIV has only very little content that has some longevity to it. And it is completely valid to criticize that - if another MMO exists that is worse is completely irrelevant and adds nothing to the discussion. The criticism is still valid, no matter how much worse that one MMO is.

I am not a good tank or healer but i like to do dungeons with the roulette. So normal content is just perfect for me, i am not doing expert runs. So why make the normal dungeon more difficult when there is a expert mode already?

And think about when dungeons should be more difficult, players will use tools like dbm in WoW, does this make sense playing like in WoW where players can not play anymore without all the addon tools?

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Originally Posted by Loonies

I am not a good tank or healer but i like to do dungeons with the roulette. So normal content is just perfect for me, i am not doing expert runs. So why make the normal dungeon more difficult when there is a expert mode already?

And think about when dungeons should be more difficult, players will use tools like dbm in WoW, does this make sense playing like in WoW where players can not play anymore without all the addon tools?

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Expert dungeons are not any harder than normal dungeons. They're exactly the same.

@bold... yeah... about that. Players already do.

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Originally Posted by Loonies

I am not a good tank or healer but i like to do dungeons with the roulette. So normal content is just perfect for me, i am not doing expert runs. So why make the normal dungeon more difficult when there is a expert mode already?

And think about when dungeons should be more difficult, players will use tools like dbm in WoW, does this make sense playing like in WoW where players can not play anymore without all the addon tools?

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Most expert dungeons are easier than normal dungeons lmao. Are you a new player? If so then you should know expert dungeons are basically a meme. They’re called that but they’re everything but.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

This argument always amuses me.
Do you realize that it could also be better?

There are MMOs with auto-play mode, so I suppose healers should be happy that they get to spam one button and occasionally a dot for 10min straight, correct?
There are MMOs without housing, so I suppose we should be happy that only a select few can own one at all.
There are MMOs that don't even have dungeons, so be happy that we have them at all and don't you dare be bored with them after they followed the exact same formula for years on end.

FFXIV has only very little content that has some longevity to it. And it is completely valid to criticize that - if another MMO exists that is worse is completely irrelevant and adds nothing to the discussion. The criticism is still valid, no matter how much worse that one MMO is.

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This. People need to realize that not every comment about dissatisfaction is whinging. Often the people who complain are the ones who want to see the product succeed. And if feedback can improve it for the better, why stop it? After all...

https://64.media.tumblr.com/ad810413...cf0adb4733.pnj

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

This. People need to realize that not every comment about dissatisfaction is whinging. Often the people who complain are the ones who want to see the product succeed. And if feedback can improve it for the better, why stop it? After all...

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Aye! One of worstest things that can occur is for someone to silently leave because you learn nothing. This is what majority does, they will go somewhere else.

Also is significantly more difficult to earn trust back then it is to keep it. Fool me once and all this.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

i'm going to be honest here, I find the comments about the lack of content quite amusing.

Prior to FFXIV becoming my primary game, I'd played another MMO for over a decade. That game was/is of the Free to Play variety and whilst that model was, originally, quite generous it became less and less so to the point where it's business model revolved around FOMO fueled events and sleazy gambleboxes courtesy of an EP with a background in smartphone games.

I started playing FFXIV mid-December, generally playing for a few hours almost every evening (and a little longer when had days off work here and there). It took me slightly over three months to get from the start to the current end of the MSQ. The other game that I played for over a decade? No exaggeration; a new player can get from start to finish in about a week.

So between the sleazy business model, the Devs inability/ lacking interest in address the overwhelming levels of powercreep and the only new content being "buy this new thing", Complain all you will, but it could be a LOT worse.

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I don't think anyone would disagree FFXIV could be worse, but it also could be a lot better as well. Who is going to post feedback on the forums on how to make the game worst. Now most ftp games like Lost Ark are going to have a p2w aspect to it where you can get from start to finish in a couple minutes for the right price. These games usually allow you to reach end game fairly quick as they constantly focus on new end game content and to keep player bases they need constant catch up mechanics. When you add so many catch up mechanics it makes getting to end game faster. But this is a free to play pay to win model which is not a subscription based MMO in most cases.

This game does have FOMO, if you don't start trying to clear savage on release and try to do it a couple months later you will have problems. Every holiday event is FOMO as these items will likely never show up again and if they do it will likely be in the cash shop. Things like Eureka and Bozja are now barren and more difficult to complete. So to say there is no FOMO in FFXIV is untrue. But you have only played since December so you wouldn't really know this.

Now of course coming into a game that is in it's 6th expansion a couple months ago, you will have a lot of content to complete. That is common sense, but if you have played this game for a decade, this game has had a constant trend with it's content patches and the longevity issue with the content it releases. So when some one joins this game in the latest expansion and tells me there is a lot of content, it's hard to take that opinion with any merit as it is common sense. You see on youtube many people promoting the 6.1 patch as having a lot of content, but it in actuality is just a normal x.1 patch with about our 3rd or 4th pvp revamp. You can go and look at previous patches on the FFXIV website and see it's the same thing as usual.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

i'm going to be honest here, I find the comments about the lack of content quite amusing.

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This comment kind of amuses me because it shows that you are completely missing the point of the complaints and where they are coming from.

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I started playing FFXIV mid-December, generally playing for a few hours almost every evening (and a little longer when had days off work here and there). It took me slightly over three months to get from the start to the current end of the MSQ. The other game that I played for over a decade? No exaggeration; a new player can get from start to finish in about a week.

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This is why you’re missing the entire argument when it comes to lack of content and content longevity. You just started this game. To a brand new player, there is a TON of stuff to get through: MSQ, dungeons, trials, alliance raids, old Extremes for the mounts if they so wish. I, too, had a lot to do when I first started playing over six years ago and everything was shiny and new—and ARR was longer than it is now. But that that isn’t the case for people who have been playing for a while and are at endgame, which is where the lack of content arguments come from. Not from a new player/progressing player’s perspective.

Once you hit endgame, all that new content sort of fizzles out. You don’t have patch stories to get through. You don’t have all those new optional dungeons and trials from previous expansions to go through.

Every even patch you get a couple hours of MSQ (one and done), 1 new dungeon, 4 new normal mode raids (if you do them), and 1 new 8-man primal trial + its story if it has one (e.g., Four Lords, Weapons). Every odd patch you get a couple hours of MSQ (one and done), 1 new 24-man raid, and 1 new 8-man primal trial. It’s up in the air if you get a new dungeon or not; they’ve actually cut back on level-capped dungeons over the years. Occasionally you’ll get a new beast tribe quest, which will offer you 15~30 minutes worth of new dailies, but they’re also one and done for the most part.

There is some longevity, but it is artificial in the form of weekly caps and limits. And this content is expected to last for four months until the next cycle. There will come a point where you’ve exhausted them, and then what do you have to do? Yeah, you can take a break—but what about those who want to actually keep playing?

Doing weekly roulettes and normal modes for tomes and tokens isn’t really “new content”; it’s you repeating things you’ve already done for dailies. You wont have anything new to work towards outside of maybe pursuing other jobs. But for people who have already leveled their jobs, they don’t have that. I’ve entertained myself in the past by rolling alt characters on different servers and data centers, but that’s all stuff I’ve already done before. It’s a bit disgusting the amount of alts I have, but when I’m left with nothing else to do…and a desire to play FFXIV…well, that’s the option I have left for me.


The longer you play, the more egregious the lack of content at endgame and the longevity of what endgame content we do have becomes. And while it’s inevitable to an extent, I have taken six month long breaks from this game, came back, and caught up in less than a week. That’s pretty bad, in my opinion. It goes beyond the “Yoshida wants us to take breaks” argument when I don’t play for half a year and barely miss anything.

The upcoming patch lacks a lot of new content for casual players such as yourself. You get a couple hours of MSQ, a handful of sidequests, and a 24-man alliance raid. That’s about all you get. Maybe you can throw the new PvP mode in there, if that’s something that interests you; but it is pretty niche. The new Extreme will keep me occupied in the two weeks before the Ultimate comes out in 6.15, but I don’t think that will be the case for everyone.

Some of the drought could have been eliminated with adding in the relic for 6.1—but they didn’t put that in this coming patch. Which is a disappointment. 6.1 sounds a lot like 4.1 in the sense that unless you did Shinryu EX or UCoB, you didn’t have a lot of content to keep you occupied until 4.2—there was Rabanastre, and that was about it since they delayed Eureka. I was there; I remember how boring it was until I was pulled into an UCoB group.

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Complain all you will, but it could be a LOT worse.

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This is a terrible non-argument/rebuttal. Well, obviously it can be a lot worse. But it can also be a lot better. And it has been in the past.

I'm hoping the Criterion dungeons in 6.2 will add some mid/hardcore challenges for smaller groups of players or soloists...though I'm not going to get my hopes up until we actually see some details.

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Originally Posted by nick124

(reposted from feedback forums on suggestion from other posters, i dont know how to move the entire thread so i copy/pasted my post w/replies, original thread with some helpful input at https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...nt-is-too-easy )

Why is the game so easy a person who is half asleep could play it with no problem? You wonder why no one knows how to play well, yet make all of the content ridiculously easy. I'm no pro, but its kinda silly how all of the content save extremes and savage is so easy to learn and play with no difficulty whatsoever. People play games to enjoy mental stimulation, and when every single mechanic is telegraphed, repetitive, and predictable, the content becomes very linear and boring. What ever happened to the final fantasy of old, where people had to actually practice and grind fights to clear them? You wonder why there's level 90 white mages casting cure 1 and dragoons single target attacking on dungeon pulls, when the normal game content is so easy it allows players to coast through without actually learning how to play. Just food for thought. Don't forget players who actually play games to enjoy a challenge. Don't leave them out to dry because many other people cry when something isn't spoon-fed to them. Make final fantasy great again! Encourage people to learn and get better, not rot and wither away in normal dungeons which poses about as much difficulty as connect four for a toddler.

R1:There is a difference between being "casual friendly" and downright childs play. The game has become the latter. It's gotten to the point that you don't even need to follow mechanics to clear the material. The game becomes essentially effortless to play since every single "mechanic" is so heavily telegraphed and announced that it becomes a matter of just responding to the same visual cues over and over again, in different settings. I'm not arguing that everything should be savage difficulty. But the normal material (dungeons, trials, most normal raids) is simply boring by how little effort it requires to complete it. It feels like busywork more than an enjoyable interactive game. I don't think every single AOE needs to telegraphed. Not every tank buster and stack needs a huge marker with a 5 or more second warning. Let people enjoy the game by learning the fight, even if it takes a few or more tries. ff14 will never be a great game if it just stays a mindless exercise. People who actually enjoy video games want more, they want to be challenged, they want to be frustrated, they want the opportunity to figure out something which is difficult. The entire game minus the hard content doesnt need to, and shouldnt be, a politically correct easymode that anyone with even a low level of consciousness can breeze through.

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I remember the times of when Shinryu first came out back in 4.0 and threads about The Burn back in 4.4. I myself would appreciate a little harder content myself. However, as long as casuals and those not willing to put in effort to play pays the bills, the dungeons, trials, and regular raids will be the same way they are for years to come.

Frankly to everyone wanting harder content, be the change you want to be. Try to reasonably help others learn about the basics of the game or the mechanics of dungeons without using questionable language or things the would violate terms of service. Sure there are some who refuse to improve their skill and get by with the story, but among them there may be people who appreciate your willingness to make their dungeons runs smoother.

Okay - point taken. I guess anything is going to seem like an improvement after watching a game you've played for over ten years turn into a gamble-box reliant, content starved, cash-grab that feels like it's pretty much on life support.

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

Aye! One of worstest things that can occur is for someone to silently leave because you learn nothing. This is what majority does, they will go somewhere else.

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Promises promises

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Expert dungeons are not any harder than normal dungeons. They're exactly the same.

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Agreed. In fact, the Lv81 Tower of Zot is much spicier than any of the Expert dungeons.

"Normal content is too easy."

Meanwhile, getting Titania in roulette with a bunch of randoms:
https://media.giphy.com/media/tZyxxR...Izl9/giphy.gif

titania is easy, though, people are just bad and got carried through other fights (+ did the story ones on very easy) and because it has no ilvl lock, you'll get players with lvl 60 gear so no gear carry, either

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

"Normal content is too easy."

Meanwhile, getting Titania in roulette with a bunch of randoms:
https://media.giphy.com/media/tZyxxR...Izl9/giphy.gif

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what stumps people in Titania though o.O

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Originally Posted by hagare

what stumps people in Titania though o.O

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The fact that you can get hard carried through pretty much every MSQ duty while Titania has a dps check, knockback overlapping with other mechanics, responsibility for both tanks, adds hit fairly hard on tanks compared to most DF content and you have to watch your surroundings a bit for the circle aoe and star marker pattern because both can easily kill you on their own and circle aoes have a spread right after that usually one shots people with 2 or more vuln stacks.
In short it's a bit of a difficulty spike after facerolling for hours on end.

The fight itself isn't that difficult but you can't run around like a headless chicken. I've seen most deaths happen to people forgetting the stack mark during the aoe rays, getting the few poor souls that tried killed, then the OT being used to being a tankier dps, not putting on stance for adds while one of the adds kills off dps and healers one by one and lastly spread marker PvP right after the circle aoes - if you made it past the add phase with all the deaths.
Add phase is the biggest problem for parties, if you survive that you still see plenty of deaths but they can't wipe you.

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Originally Posted by ThivraK

titania is easy, though, people are just bad and got carried through other fights (+ did the story ones on very easy) and because it has no ilvl lock, you'll get players with lvl 60 gear so no gear carry, either

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I think the issue with Tatania is most of the content for Shadowbringers and more so Endwalker is made for the solo player and that fight forces you to play with real people. Now for the Hardcore Minority they will not understand this but casuals the majority of the players will not watch detailed youtube videos and guides before they go into a fight because it can spoil the story.

I would be more concerned for the Hardcore Minority as with Endwalker you could Trust almost everything, including one of the major Trials in the game.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

I think the issue with Tatania is most of the content for Shadowbringers and more so Endwalker is made for the solo player and that fight forces you to play with real people. Now for the Hardcore Minority they will not understand this but casuals the majority of the players will not watch detailed youtube videos and guides before they go into a fight because it can spoil the story.

I would be more concerned for the Hardcore Minority as with Endwalker you could Trust almost everything, including one of the major Trials in the game.

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You don’t need a guide for Titania normal mode. Nothing in this game outside of Savage and Ultimate (and maybe EXs, though those aren’t nearly as hard as they used to be) requires a guide—this seems to be a misconception a lot of people have, and one a lot tend to pin on this “hardcore” mentality when a lot of the “hardcore minority” rarely advocate for guides outside of the content I listed. A lot don’t care what you do in normal content; only high-end content. Stop generalizing.

Titania is just the first 8-man story trial that requires people to pay attention. Unlike other 8-man trials such as Shinryu or Tsukuyomi normal mode, there’s no item level requirement so you get people in there with gear from HW (seen that more times that I really should); and there’s sync on it, so you can’t just outgear it for easier carries. The fight has a DPS check during the adds, which is hit or miss to be met in DFs where people come in undergeared or come in with no idea how to play their jobs. It also has actual mechanics that you can only power through to an extent.

To be honest, it’s no different from Susano normal memes back in SB. Zodiark normal is just like Titania normal in that people have to actually pay attention and can’t just sleep through it. Same with Hydaelyn normal mode. Every normal mode party I’ve gotten for either since Early Access has been… a treat. I’ve had more Vote Abandons in them than I really should, to be honest.

This is the problem when every other piece of content you do hands out participation ribbons.

Another major problem with trials like Titania, Hydaelyn, and Tsukuyomi is that even if I take the time to type in the basic instructions for the fight, there are new players who just ignore chat and don't read it. How on earth am I supposed to help them then? All 3 of these fights have decently clear tells for their mechanics but the chunk of players who don't pay attention force the difficulty down.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Another major problem with trials like Titania, Hydaelyn, and Tsukuyomi is that even if I take the time to type in the basic instructions for the fight, there are new players who just ignore chat and don't read it. How on earth am I supposed to help them then? All 3 of these fights have decently clear tells for their mechanics but the chunk of players who don't pay attention force the difficulty down.

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I remember doing Shinryu NM about two weeks or so after SB launched to help a friend get their clear, and one of the tanks just bum-rushed and face pulled the boss after every wipe, despite people in chat asking for help with what was killing them. So yes, this is also a huge problem.

(That tank died 5 times to Tidal Wave, btw—and kept complaining about why they died, but wouldn’t pause for 10 seconds to let someone explain the mechanic.)

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

"Normal content is too easy."

Meanwhile, getting Titania in roulette with a bunch of randoms:
https://media.giphy.com/media/tZyxxR...Izl9/giphy.gif

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it's almost like the rest of the content was easy and when something that requires you to pay attention pops up then suddenly everyone forgets their rotation. Perhaps if the previous dungeons slowly scaled up the difficulty to teach players how to deal with AoEs and target priority. Nevermind, Titana nerf when SE?!

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I remember doing Shinryu EX about two weeks or so after SB launched to help a friend get their clear, and one of the tanks just bum-rushed and face pulled the boss after every wipe, despite people in chat asking for help with what was killing them. So yes, this is also a huge problem.

(That tank died 5 times to Tidal Wave, btw—and kept complaining about why they died, but wouldn’t pause for 10 seconds to let someone explain the mechanic.)

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I occasionally encounter this behaviour in Ex and sometimes even Savage but DF is by far the worst. Ignoring any instructions and help is a huge problem there.

It's completely fine to not get a mechanic immediately after seeing it or to not spot it first try.
If someone hasn't played for some time or is prone to taking really long breaks between doing a few quests, they'll most likely have forgotten about some things or don't recognize the tells immediately. That's okay, normal content is fairly forgiving and that includes the likes of Titania. Plus a wipe isn't the end of the world and if someone died to it and noticed "whups, I probably shouldn't stand there next time" they will watch out for it next time.
It's also completely fine if someone goes in blind because guides are definitely not required in DF and I have never, in all my years of playing FFXIV, met anyone barging into a duty and proclaiming that everyone better watched a guide or vote kick or get salty when someone died to a mechanic because they didn't know what was coming. On the contrary, if someone says "first time, didn't watch a guide" the reactions were always "no worries, blind is more fun anyway" - including from all those filthy elitist hardcore raiders.
So much for the hardcore mentality.

But if someone keeps dying to something, for the love of god, just read the party chat.
If people keep dying to Hydaelyn's weapons and someone writes "red = IN, green = OUT, blue = INTERCARDINAL" there is no reason to ignore it while dying to it another 10 times.
If someone confidently runs to a certain spot and jumps there, chances are that this is the safe spot.
If everyone is standing in one spot and a healer rescues someone into the stack, chances are they should stack.
But I've encountered a lot of "I do what I want lol" attitude. People run out of the safe zone they've just been rescued into and die. People ignore the short instructions in party chat. People ignore the marked person jumping like a bouncy ball in the safe zone. People completely ignore the movement of the majority and run around randomly. Not just new players, some older players as well. The older players are usually guilty of shooting down any instructions with "lol it's just normal".

I've seen a lot of vote abandons on all EW trials as well.
After the experienced players gave brief instructions, after they've marked one and told everyone who is unsure to just follow this person.
It wasn't too long ago that I spent almost an hour on Hydaelyn because even on healer with two capable friends on dps it was a huge mess and impossible to salvage to drag everyone to the finishing line.
Another boss I've frequently seen chaos to the point of vote abandons is the Bird. After writing "pull the adds apart before killing them, try to move in a stack for Searing Breeze, bird has double autos later so please put on tank stance and voke if you lost aggro".
Since it's not part of MSQ you generally encounter fewer people running around absolutely clueless about everything but Bird is still good for some "What the hell is even happening?" moments.

I love the argument "just do savage or ultimate" as if those fights come out frequently.

Someone already mentioned earlier that the MSQ is mandatory in this game, so for every 40ish hours of content that wakes you up, there is 500 of MSQ that puts you to sleep. There are 2 ultimates per expansion (1 last time, showing that if push comes to shove, they're shoving ultimate out). 12 savage bosses per expansion. 9 extremes. That is not a lot of content to engage with over a span of 2 years.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I still don't know why they haven't adopted elements of Eureka and Bozja into the open-world zones, as opposed to just running the wheel again on gemstones and the occasional zone boss FATEs.

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Which elements, specifically? Some of the elements are absolutely miserable, like the inability to fly and the loss of mettle when you die. The beauty of Bozja is that by being completely optional, it has the freedom to be as hard as they want to make it. You may think you want the open world to be like Bozja, but I guarantee that if it were to be introduced into the open world, it would eventually be nerfed until it bore almost no resemblance to the Bozja that you know and love.

The problem I always found with Titania was that it was the first trial for level boosters, who often hadn't bothered to set up their bars or learn how to play their jobs. Combined with getting carried through the first two dungeons by trusts, and it tended to end poorly.

Alternately, a tank not picking up the second add. Or trying to take both and getting squashed by multiple tankbusters.

Either way, it was always pure human error.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Which elements, specifically? Some of the elements are absolutely miserable, like the inability to fly and the loss of mettle when you die. The beauty of Bozja is that by being completely optional, it has the freedom to be as hard as they want to make it. You may think you want the open world to be like Bozja, but I guarantee that if it were to be introduced into the open world, it would eventually be nerfed until it bore almost no resemblance to the Bozja that you know and love.

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The element of lost actions and logos actions adding an additional layer of complexity for many people, or in many cases slightly shifting, or adding an additional layer of enjoyment as to how they play the classes. Granted this is as much subjective, but aside from this, really just borrowing how alive it feels. I can't see why they couldn't adopt something similar to the bunny fates in the open world zones, in addition to the expansion with Bozja when they decided to add in critical engagements and the 1 versus 1 combat. I feel like this elements just add a nice level of activity that is missing in an otherwise very barren open world. I don't necessarily mean on the same scale of difficulty either, but just more encouraging people to actually go out in the open world.

I'm not talking about losing EXP, or anything so drastic. Though personally I would enjoy for flying to be outright removed and then slightly downscaling map size. For me personally it added a nice level of exploration, which is completely forgone when you can just fly your way through the world.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Another major problem with trials like Titania, Hydaelyn, and Tsukuyomi is that even if I take the time to type in the basic instructions for the fight, there are new players who just ignore chat and don't read it. How on earth am I supposed to help them then? All 3 of these fights have decently clear tells for their mechanics but the chunk of players who don't pay attention force the difficulty down.

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There's also the problems with vets who don't want to wait

Had some new folks last night in Mhach. Bard who wasn't new (stuff in alliance chat made that clear) in another group from mine kept early pulling everything. We wiped twice on Ozma.

I finally had to say "Anyone need/want to go over mechs before the bard pulls?" and that got them to stop so we could go over what was wiping us. It was mostly confusion on placing the meteors and the triangle/square mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Though personally I would enjoy for flying to be outright removed and then slightly downscaling map size. For me personally it added a nice level of exploration, which is completely forgone when you can just fly your way through the world.

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That sounds awful for gatherers.

My two cents, as someone who likes the higher tier content and has thought about this a lot:

The disparity in difficulty between most normal and top end content is just too great. I understand numbers count, especially with an MMO (especially an MMO under EAnix as they are now), but I do not believe normal content should be designed around people who don't even want to improve meaningfully at all. And yes, I know when it comes to roulettes, especially alliance, you have people who will avoid anything harder than labyrinth at all costs. The fact that they CAN is the problem. Too many people wanting to avoid even remotely engaging content is a consequence of a game that has made it too easy to avoid remotely engaging content at the cost of everyone else. And for the whole "There is ex/savage/ultimate" etc, let's be real for a second. Unless you have second job time to dedicate to an FC or a static you're not seeing that stuff. PF exists and it works sometimes but your only two options shouldn't be the extreme ends of "are you alive and pushing buttons" and "Second job".

Few of us, relatively speaking, want the challenge of top end content. But I would be willing to bet quite a few of us want something better than content designed around people who want to play the game as white noise. The bell curve is wildly inverted, and I think a big chunk of people in the middle are getting completely left out.

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Originally Posted by Xuto-cxb

My two cents, as someone who likes the higher tier content and has thought about this a lot:

The disparity in difficulty between most normal and top end content is just too great. I understand numbers count, especially with an MMO (especially an MMO under EAnix as they are now), but I do not believe normal content should be designed around people who don't even want to improve meaningfully at all. And yes, I know when it comes to roulettes, especially alliance, you have people who will avoid anything harder than labyrinth at all costs. The fact that they CAN is the problem. Too many people wanting to avoid even remotely engaging content is a consequence of a game that has made it too easy to avoid remotely engaging content at the cost of everyone else. And for the whole "There is ex/savage/ultimate" etc, let's be real for a second. Unless you have second job time to dedicate to an FC or a static you're not seeing that stuff. PF exists and it works sometimes but your only two options shouldn't be the extreme ends of "are you alive and pushing buttons" and "Second job".

Few of us, relatively speaking, want the challenge of top end content. But I would be willing to bet quite a few of us want something better than content designed around people who want to play the game as white noise. The bell curve is wildly inverted, and I think a big chunk of people in the middle are getting completely left out.

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Wisdom disguised in Hrothgar clothes. Yeah this game shouldnt be white noise.

I honestly decided to quit the game because of this today. I just feel like a really old or disabled person while playing it. And if I want to play dress up with my character, I play Sims 4 lol.
It's a good story but I just can't anymore, I had to get this out. Bye.

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Originally Posted by tolgish95

I honestly decided to quit the game because of this today. I just feel like a really old or disabled person while playing it. Bye.

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Hope you have something you enjoy more, good luck.