People advertising they're running Parsers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mihari

As long as nobody complains officially against it, the authorities will do nothing. But once there is a lawsuit, it will be looked into it. At the moment I don't know any cases in the EU, were the implementation of the privacy protection within multiplayer games has been checked or reviewed by authorities. But if someone don't want that his character name is visible in a log for everyone, it normally has to be implemented.

The best example are apartment buildings in the EU. If a tenant does not want his name on the doorbell, it must be anonymized with for e.g cryptic numbers. The landlord has to ensure that. This general privacy rule rule can also be easily applied to multiplayer games. But as I said, as long as no one complains it, the authorities do nothing here.

---

This applies to personal data only, SE owns the game you're playing, it's their data.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Point proven. You are ignoring or dismissing out of hand the contributions BRD brings to the table.

Using an ability to mitigate damage, remove a debuff and / or provide a shield for another player is a valid contribution.

Wouldnt you agree?

You..DO....know what Troubadour does, dont you?

---

Give me an instance of Troubadour actually saving the healers a GCD in the content you do. If it does, it also increases rDPS. If it doesn't, it did effectively nothing.

At such a low % mitigation, to amount to a single, unbuffed GCD heal, the original raid damage would have had to have been greater than any non-tank's maximum HP. That leaves only compensating for individual errors where one would otherwise have died by some small % of health, which is rather rare.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Give me an instance of Troubadour actually saving the healers a GCD in the content you do. If it does, it also increases rDPS. If it doesn't, it did effectively nothing.

At such a low % mitigation, to amount to a single, unbuffed GCD heal, the original raid damage would have had to have been greater than any non-tank's maximum HP. That leaves only compensating for individual errors where one would otherwise have died by some small % of health, which is rather rare.

---

are you actually saying that mitigation skills outside of tank personal cd's are useless?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velnora

They would be an exception to the rule. Parsers are how good players, become great players. You can memorize a fight all you like, but if you don't know what you are doing wrong in your rotation, you are hindering yourself. Nuances, are what separate good players and the great ones.

---

It's a game. Not a profession. I am not hindered in the slightest because I simply don't give a damn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrFlesh

are you actually saying that mitigation skills outside of tank personal cd's are useless?

---

If they don't allow for a single heal less in a given fight, yes. Quite literally so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Menriq

I probably wasn't clear, so my apologies. In the example I gave, I meant the same class. So for example, I can stand in a certain spot on BRD and hit all 4 adds at the same time. Another BRD might only hit 2 of them. It's a DPS gain to hold Apex Arrow at 100 gauge for the 2 minute burst, whereas someone might think using it at 100 is the intended way to play it. This goes back to using the parser to improve. I will often either go on Discord to see what tips / recommendations are on a fight by fight basis, but I will also compare my logs to those who are better to see what they are doing so I can improve myself.

---

I want to be believe this is more of a awareness thing and knowing how the boss and their mechanics work. If you really need a parser for that, then okay. Wished the feedback of the basic UI would be better on AoEs, but alas.

(Oddly, though, that the Bard gauge still is filling even when enemies are dead or cannot be targeted and you have nothing active on the field to apply dots to.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrius

I want to be believe this is more of a awareness thing and knowing how the boss and their mechanics work. If you really need a parser for that, then okay. Wished the feedback of the basic UI would be better on AoEs, but alas.

(Oddly, though, that the Bard gauge still is filling even when enemies are dead or cannot be targeted and you have nothing active on the field to apply dots to.)

---

The Bard gauge isn't tied to DoT's, it's tied to songs. But if you want to ignore the AoE aspect from the parser (and thus the logs), that's fine. My point about knowing to hold Apex Arrow even when it's full is something you wouldn't normally think of unless there was a way to see numbers to figure out these things out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arrius

I am not sure about the people who say that they use/want parsers to determine their performance, either.
The jobs aren't that complex, it's more about remembering their intended rotations and using common guidelines that overlap with each other job. On tanks and healers, it's more situational thing you need awareness for and the ability to look ahead.

If you play the jobs as intended, then you should not need a parser at all. Because that's as good as you can get.
The rest is practice to (re-)learn them.

---

It's not technically needed to improve but it makes it a lot easier to find where exactly mistakes happened. This is often because of fight specific things and reviewing the logs will make it far easier to find what can be improved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

It's a game. Not a profession. I am not hindered in the slightest because I simply don't give a damn.

---

100%, it is game, play it for fun, if your concept of this game is AFK dancing on Limsa it is as valid clearing savage and unltimate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

If they don't allow for a single heal less in a given fight, yes. Quite literally so.

---

goes to fflogs to search for tani shirai

404 not found

right.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrFlesh

goes to fflogs to search for tani shirai

404 not found

right.....

---

"Any worthwhile defensive would also have an indirect impact on rDPS" is not a complex concept. But ad hominem away, I guess?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrFlesh

goes to fflogs to search for tani shirai

---

Ok kids, this is exactly what you DON'T want to do...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MsQi

Ok kids, this is exactly what you DON'T want to do...

---

This is why I am okay with not being allowed to bring up parses in game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrFlesh

goes to fflogs to search for tani shirai

404 not found

right.....

---

There's actually a line of text you can place in your official FFXIV Lodestone profile that will prevent you from showing up on FFLogs. I've done it. It is no one's damn business what I do.

I mean fflogs is essentially a public record, and that's a okay. It's when you hide log that you draw suspicion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrFlesh

goes to fflogs to search for tani shirai

404 not found

right.....

---

I am willing to vouch for the ideas Shurrikhan is putting forward.

Shaving a single regen-tics worth of damage off of a raid-wide is pointless the vast majority of the time.

Either the mitigation is necessary to your survival, or it's used to save on resource expenditure elsewhere (Healer GCDs being a notable one). If it isn't doing either of those things in a way that creates a net rDPS gain over taking another job, it can be argued that it's not valuable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caurcas

I mean fflogs is essentially a public record, and that's a okay. It's when you hide log that you draw suspicion.

---

not really

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rinhi

not really

---

They're actually not wrong.

Most groups you apply to for serious content will immediately look at your FFLogs, as it's seen as a resume of both your demonstrated clears and a metric of your ability. There's arguments as to whether or not DPS is useful metric, but I can emphatically tell you that FFLogs is a significant part of raiding culture in this game and is a huge factor in public perception of the players within that culture. Often people with hidden logs are red-flagged, but not everyone with hidden logs is bad. I know someone in the top 1% of their job who hides their logs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caurcas

I mean fflogs is essentially a public record, and that's a okay. It's when you hide log that you draw suspicion.

---

It's not a public record, it is the equivalent of publishing a recorded conversation where one of the parties hasn't consented to the recording.

That happens a lot these days. Twitter and Youtube are full of such recordings, and the consensus seems to be that it does more good than harm. But do not be fooled into believing it does no harm. And do not believe you have a Right to publish whatever you want on the Internet without reprisal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

They're actually not wrong.

Most groups you apply to for serious content will immediately look at your FFLogs, as it's seen as a resume of both your demonstrated clears and a metric of your ability. There's arguments as to whether or not DPS is useful metric, but I can emphatically tell you that FFLogs is a significant part of raiding culture in this game and is a huge factor in public perception of the players within that culture. Often people with hidden logs are red-flagged, but not everyone with hidden logs is bad. I know someone in the top 1% of their job who hides their logs.

---

As a mid cores raider, who has had not great parses before, I've never been upfront rejected due to logs. However, they are appreciated because they show your content attempt history and represent a level of transparency with any perspective group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

They're actually not wrong.

Most groups you apply to for serious content will immediately look at your FFLogs, as it's seen as a resume of both your demonstrated clears and a metric of your ability. There's arguments as to whether or not DPS is useful metric, but I can emphatically tell you that FFLogs is a significant part of raiding culture in this game and is a huge factor in public perception of the players within that culture. Often people with hidden logs are red-flagged, but not everyone with hidden logs is bad. I know someone in the top 1% of their job who hides their logs.

---

they're not wrong, but they're also not correct, as you've said yourself
one of my friends is a god gamer yet their logs are completely hidden, simple because they don't want to be listed on that website
otherwise I'm not disagreeing with your post in any way, since you're correct!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caurcas

I mean fflogs is essentially a public record, and that's a okay. It's when you hide log that you draw suspicion.

---

FFlogs has no right to make those records public. Any information regarding FFXIV characters is the property of SE. They allow others to use that information as long as it doesn't become a problem. They will side with the player when someone uses that information without the player's permission especially when used for calling out their in game performance publicly. This is why FFlogs has to hide informations if the player wants it to be hidden.

It's like you are saying an apartment resident is suspicious for locking their own door.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MsQi

It's like you are saying an apartment resident is suspicious for locking their own door.

---

Apartments aren't a cooperative activity with stakes that can be scored quantitively... at least not without a huge stretch in logic. It would be reasonable to be suspicious of someone opting to intentionally hide their score in a video game, particularly if you were interested in trying to put an effective team together.

While I definitely think exceptions exist, speaking from my own experience with hundreds of hours pug raiding in this game (and lots of time recruiting for statics), the overwhelming majority of people who opt to hide their logs are not doing so because they're embarrassed about how amazing they are at the game. I try to give these types a chance because of the few exceptions I've seen, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't end up regretting it 99% of the time.

Of the 'good' examples I know, where the player had hidden their logs despite being highly skilled, most of them were highly unstable people that struggled with self-image issues around their parses, and would often get extremely toxic or upset if something in a run wasn't going their way. I find a similar mentality haunts the types of 'bad' players that opt to hide them as well; They're usually irrationally afraid of how people will judge them based on their logs. In some cases, I've even had people lash out at me during recruitment conversations when I've asked them to unhide their logs for me to take a look.

Anyway, the moral of the story is, even if it's not a performance red-flag, hidden logs are often a mentality red-flag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

[...]

---

...and I highly doubt Shurrikhan is one those that's hiding it for bad reasons, judging by their knowledge of stuff, tbh

Quote:

---

Anyway, the moral of the story is, even if it's not a performance red-flag, hidden logs are often a mentality red-flag.

---

Yeah.

its called none of your business.

Quote:

---

Either the mitigation is necessary to your survival, or it's used to save on resource expenditure elsewhere (Healer GCDs being a notable one). If it isn't doing either of those things in a way that creates a net rDPS gain over taking another job, it can be argued that it's not valuable.

---

So you are dismissing OUT OF HAND the raid utility that support classes bring to the table?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Yeah.

its called none of your business.

---

If I'm recruting someone for my static, it is indeed very much all of my business to make sure they will be a good fit.

Quote:

---

If I'm recruting someone for my static, it is indeed very much all of my business to make sure they will be a good fit.

---

On the unlikely chance I will EVER want to "join " your static ( chances of that are more or less 0.000000000000001% ) I will let you know. Until that time, whats in those logs is none of your concern ( even if said logs exist ), which then begs the question

Do you go poking into peoples logs when they HAVENT ever applied?

Ref:

Quote:

---

goes to fflogs to search for tani shirai

404 not found

right.....

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

On the unlikely chance I will EVER want to "join " your static ( chances of that are more or less 0.000000000000001% ) I will let you know. Until that time, whats in those logs is none of your concern ( even if said logs exist ), which then begs the question

Do you go poking into peoples logs when they HAVENT ever applied?

Ref:

---

Yes, I quite often do. Be it from idle curiosity or as a way to acquire better understanding about a person I am interacting with. It is of course your complete right to request fflogs to hide anything related to your characters. In the same way it is my right to make whatever conclusions I deem necessary from being aware about that fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azuri

Yes, I quite often do. Be it from idle curiosity or as a way to acquire better understanding about a person I am interacting with. It is of course your complete right to request fflogs to hide anything related to your characters. In the same way it is my right to make whatever conclusions I deem necessary from being aware about that fact.

---

So youve just admitted to poking your nose into the logs of people who have never applied for your static, and never intend to, and as they have those logs private because it is , in fact, none of your business, you dont like it.

Ever hear the word "privacy"?

If they have never applied to your static and never intend to....how is whats in those logs ANY of your concern?

It isnt..is it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

So youve just admitted to poking your nose into the logs of people who have never applied for your static, and never intend to, and as they have those logs private because it is , in fact, none of your business, you dont like it.

Ever hear the word "privacy"?

---

You sound crazy right now.

Edit: Maybe it's the overuse of bold text. Maybe.

Quote:

---

You sound crazy right now.

Edit: Maybe it's the overuse of bold text. Maybe.

---

Noted.

I am making a specific point, and this medium is..limited in that regard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleImp

Anyway, the moral of the story is, even if it's not a performance red-flag, hidden logs are often a mentality red-flag.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Yeah.

its called none of your business.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

On the unlikely chance I will EVER want to "join " your static ( chances of that are more or less 0.000000000000001% ) I will let you know.

---

If anyone wanted an example of what I meant by my statement above, look no further than the unusual level of hostility coming from this person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

So you are dismissing OUT OF HAND the raid utility that support classes bring to the table?

---

I'm supporting the idea that the 'utility' of certain jobs is often incredibly overstated and misunderstood in the context of balance discussions.

Not hostile at all, actually. More amused.

It simply surprises me that the principle of privacy, even if this day and age of information, seems to not register. Not making certain details public isnt "suspicious" or a "mentality" at all, more a commentary on an individuals preferences for privacy..and the inablity of others to accept that principle at face value.

Incidentally, FFLogs themselves provide a guide as to how to hide log data.

Note the following sentence.

Quote:

---

We understand that privacy is important to many players. When parses of your fights get uploaded without your permission, this can be very frustrating.

---

Quote:

---

I'm supporting the idea that the 'utility' of certain jobs is often incredibly overstated and misunderstood in the context of balance discussions.

---

The game devs dont seem to think so.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Not hostile at all, actually. More amused.

It simply surprises me that the principle of privacy, even if this day and age of information, seems to not register. Not making certain details public isnt "suspicious" or a "mentality" at all, more a commentary on an individuals preferences for privacy..and the inablity of others to accept that principle at face value.

*shrug*

---

I'm not sure how saving and then displaying inherently public data is a violation of someone's privacy. Players can already view and save any action you execute or message you send in their vicinity by simply sweep selecting the combat log if they so desire.

This information is already freely accessible to anyone playing with you. If you're concerned about privacy, you would need to play exclusively with a private group sworn to secrecy or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

If they have never applied to your static and never intend to....how is whats in those logs ANY of your concern?

It isnt..is it?

---

When people are pugging highly difficult content like Ultimate , it's not that uncommon for someone to logcheck people as they join the party. It's seen as a form of risk-mitigation, and a way to help people set appropriate expectations.

Quote:

---

I'm not sure how saving and then displaying inherently public data is a violation of someone's privacy.

---

There was a post earlier ( cant remember which page ), where it was raised that that this could be covered under GDPR. Now THAT would be an interesting case to look at...one of my tutors back in compliance said that the internet was ten years ahead of the law.

From a purely curiosity POV, I wonder how that would wind up. What is private , what isnt , how is it defined? Its an..interesting conundrum.

Just do this report them all calling ya out

I personally find parsers a little anxiety giving. I mean I understand feeling curious on how well you do vs the people around you…

Maybe I am just a bad player? I do recall once joining a undersized savage party and they did surprise me saying that I did most damage on one round. Well I am dps mostly so ok.

Look most people, and I myself. Will do the best we can. Still we aren’t machines, we are human. Some rounds we’ll do great other times our minds are distracted or haven’t had enough sleep or something that makes us a little less responsive. I think judging people on just a moment is kind of rude in a way.

Also personal note. I have a movement disorder that has some similarities with epilepsy except I can handle flashing lights and my trigger is having to respond quickly. Well often enough I have to respond quickly to win. Some fights are a double struggle for me. I try to keep up while also doing my best to not lose my control over my movements.

Because when I get a full blown attack I won’t be able to do a thing for a little while… Last full blown was when I responded to go do msq roulette roughly 2 weeks ago. Trigger was me clicking to commence I was so so glad that there was an unskippable cutscene at the start because I needed that to get control over my movement back catch my breath find my controller and headphones as I had flung them off in the moment. Haven’t had full blown attacks since I have mild control over my triggers not 100% control but I will do my best to stay in charge over my movements. Still am sure that on rough fights where my symptoms tickle me and having an aura announcing it can happen anny moment my actions in game reduce a little more to a basic level rather than the best I could if I didn’t have the symptoms tugging at me… sometimes I do feel like: Maybe I should quit and give up on FFXIV because gaming is really hard for me during those moments… but at the same time the story and adventures are so good that I do push on and just do as good as I can for that moment. But I have sat crying wanting to give up but also not wanting to give up because I want to continue on…

If anyone with a parser dares to scold me on not being good enough that I will probably scream at my screen.

I feel like half of the responses didnt even bother fully reading what the other side said. They just puffed their chests and got angry, jumping to defend why they use parsing when others repeatedly stated that using parses for yourself is just fine-it's just when you harass someone else about it that it's bad. I think that's an agreeable rule, right? but time and time again someone would see that and jump out of their skin like "WHY DOES IT BOTHER YOU IF I PARSE AND STALK YOUR LOG PAGE AFTER LOCKING EYE CONTACT WITH YOU FOR 2 SECONDS IN TOWN ONCE??" Sweetheart, why is your reading comprehension failing you-I just...

If someone is a jerk or a loud mouth in-game about parsing/logs, then yes, uh huh! They should absolutely be reported and given a vacation. There's no justification for it. So again, I agree that's fine if you use it to improve for yourself or in a friend group where they're all ok with it, but just don't be mean to strangers and don't go around screaming that you're using it like it's perfectly ok and normal-which was OP's entire point, long since forgotten. and if that makes you angry then maybe you should ask yourself why the possibility of getting in trouble for harrassing someone makes you so upset. A hit dog will holler, afterall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Batbrat

I feel like half of the responses didnt even bother fully reading what the other side said. They just puffed their chests and got angry, jumping to defend why they use parsing when others repeatedly stated that using parses for yourself is just fine-it's just when you harass someone else about it that it's bad. I think that's an agreeable rule, right? but time and time again someone would see that and jump out of their skin like "WHY DOES IT BOTHER YOU IF I PARSE AND STALK YOUR LOG PAGE AFTER LOCKING EYE CONTACT WITH YOU FOR 2 SECONDS IN TOWN ONCE??" Sweetheart, why is your reading comprehension failing you-I just...

If someone is a jerk or a loud mouth in-game about parsing/logs, then yes, uh huh! They should absolutely be reported and given a vacation. There's no justification for it. So again, I agree that's fine if you use it to improve for yourself or in a friend group where they're all ok with it, but just don't be mean to strangers and don't go around screaming that you're using it like it's perfectly ok and normal-which was OP's entire point, long since forgotten. and if that makes you angry then maybe you should ask yourself why the possibility of getting in trouble for harrassing someone makes you so upset. A hit dog will holler, afterall.

---

The issue is, there isn't a widespread problem of people harassing others other about their damage, and the notion that making parsers legal would suddenly cause that to change is unfounded. Parsers are a tool. One, that is essential for any sort of balancing, even for those that are so adamant against them; as it effects them too.