No more QTE please.

To be honest, I don't understand people who talk about the "challenge" of pressing one button in MSQ. If they want a real challenge, let them do an extreme version of this trial. There are really interesting mechanics and failure to perform one of them leads to a wipe. I still don't understand how QTE changing will affect their beating button enjoyment, if not all of them will wipe, but only one person who failed this monkey business.

I hope they keep doing QTEs but if people are really upset about this particular one then just make them less intense. The ones in The Pool of Tribute and The Royal Menagerie were pretty acceptable imo. QTEs mix up the fights a tad which I like. It's not just slapping a boss for 10 min. They give opportunities for some nice cinematic stuff. Somewhat of a side note. It was a really good move for the team to decide not to include that long transition in the EX fight.

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Originally Posted by Kanitezz

I hope they keep doing QTEs but if people are really upset about this particular one then just make them less intense. The ones in The Pool of Tribute and The Royal Menagerie were pretty acceptable imo. QTEs mix up the fights a tad which I like. It's not just slapping a boss for 10 min. They give opportunities for some nice cinematic stuff.

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I have nothing against QTE as The Pool of Tribute and The Royal Menagerie (although personally I do not find pressing one button in any way exciting), especially if all players deal with them without pain and frustration. But this QTE that hurts even healthy people and wipes the whole group is not what makes the game enjoyable. Lagging or someone's trolling can affect your progress and discourage any desire to play. It should not be. Especially if it hurts people with disabilities, as if they are excluded from the company of other players.

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Originally Posted by Kanitezz

Somewhat of a side note. It was a really good move for the team to decide not to include that long transition in the EX fight.

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As for the Extreme, yes, I agree with you. But the people who call the QTE "challenge", talking about the MSQ, I don’t understand why they don’t try to complete the Extreme with more exciting mechanics instead of pressing one button.

Something very apparent from the thread is they need to make it clearer how QTE's actually work. It's fairly obvious most think it's "button mashing" and some even think you're meant to mash just one button. Or even worse, mouse click the onscreen button. Nowhere does it teach you or explain that QTE's are almost any key or button input and that multiple inputs at the same time work.

You can literally pass this just by rubbing one hand back and forth over the letter keys on your keyboard. I've tested it many times. You don't come close to failing. But the game doesn't tell you that, it just puts a big button on your screen and misleads you by saying "Tap Button Repeatedly".

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's fairly obvious most think it's "button mashing" and some even think you're meant to mash just one button. Or even worse, mouse click the onscreen button.

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In my case it was 3 buttons and I almost failed this QTE.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

It was neat and goofy the first time we had it back in Alex, but almost every instance of it since then have done nothing but break the flow and mood of the encounter.

Not to mention how everyone gets punished with a bland reset when one player fails to catch on that he needs to faceroll the keyboard/spam every button on the controller.

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I believe only the new trial makes you wipe if one person fails the QTE

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Originally Posted by OvernightSiren

I believe only the new trial makes you wipe if one person fails the QTE

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I have gathered that, however my issue is also with just how the Active Time events appear during the fight with it's flashy text and annoying sound prompt.

Proper intermissions are those seen at "The Jade Stoa" or "Tsukuyomi" where it's a fancy mechanic or just a dps race woven into the fight naturally.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

In my case it was 3 buttons and I almost failed this QTE.

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But you didn't. It's supposed to represent struggle and the meter is intentionally impossible at the very start.

I've yet to get an answer on how someone would change that cinematic moment to better represent it within the abilities of the game.

It adds basically nothing, and it's been tiring to see it employed repeatedly. As in, it could be removed from the fight and it wouldn't really make a difference.

That said, I'd rather sit there and watch another cutscene than spam 1 button for 13s.

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Originally Posted by Gula

But you didn't. It's supposed to represent struggle and the meter is intentionally impossible at the very start.

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The fact that I did not fail this moment does not mean that others will pass it 100% successfully. Besides, I am not the type of people who say "I did it and you can do it." I did it with my good hand, and then it hurt like hell. I can't imagine how I would do it with my other, injured, hand.

I would be fine if they removed the wipe mechanic from the QTE. Make it so only the player that fails dies. Also, bitching at players with disabilities is crappy, don't do that. >>

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

I would be fine if they removed the wipe mechanic from the QTE. Make it so only the player that fails dies. Also, bitching at players with disabilities is crappy, don't do that. >>

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Disagree.. I like the wipe mechanic. You can change the QTE for all I care but keep the mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Gula

But you didn't. It's supposed to represent struggle and the meter is intentionally impossible at the very start.

I've yet to get an answer on how someone would change that cinematic moment to better represent it within the abilities of the game.

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Literally just don't make it wipe the entire party if one person fails. That's it. It would be preferable if the QTE worked like every other QTE in the game, and not an obfuscated mess where no one can even agree on how to do it. But at this point if we only got to pick ONE change that would be the most equitable one. I'll take weakness in a trial and a quick rezz over being in pain the rest of the day.

The Dying Gasp still had a fairly impressive cinematic moment in its phase transition without wiping the entire party if one person failed it.

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Originally Posted by Controller

Disagree.. I like the wipe mechanic. You can change the QTE for all I care but keep the mechanic.

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The wipe mechanic sucks because most of the time you don't even *know* who failed, it sucks to succeed at the mechanic which is hard for some of us to *do* and then wipe anyway because someone else fails it. Remove it.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

The wipe mechanic sucks because most of the time you don't even *know* who failed, it sucks to succeed at the mechanic which is hard for some of us to *do* and then wipe anyway because someone else fails it. Remove it.

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This is sadden because so little content in this game has a bite and everyone wants to nerf it to the ground. I get the QTE. I agree changing THAT but I can't get behind taking that mechanic out. I just can't. I want it to stay cause it's nice having normal content have a bite.

You want content with bite? Go run extremes/ultimates/savage. MS content *should* be easy enough for everyone to clear. Normal mode trials are *supposed* to be easy, thank you.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

You want content with bite? Go run extremes/ultimates/savage. MS content *should* be easy enough for everyone to clear. Normal mode trials are *supposed* to be easy, thank you.

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i'm all down for changing the QTE mechanic itself, but there still needs to be consequences for a person for failing it. If you loose to the WoL, its game over. Your WoD lost to the WoL, there is no going around that. Your story ends hence the wipe.

What is wrong however is the QTE mechanic itself and that needs to be address.

I am the exact opposite. I am all right with the QTE mech, but think they should not have it wipe the group. Have the person who failed it die, not the whole group. That is how it has worked for QTE prior, it's how it should work here.

So many people get carried through the game by failing mechanics over and over but being saved because the game doesn't punish the whole group for a single player dying. The QTE is a bit aggressive, but fully doable with 2 buttons being pressed rapidly back and forth.

I like that everyone has to succeed because it makes more sense for that fight (since I suspect if you failed to escape it you wouldn't be able to return to the fight area with everyone else), and it forces people to actually put in the work instead of their corpse being yeeted across the finish by everyone else that does do the mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So many people get carried through the game by failing mechanics over and over but being saved because the game doesn't punish the whole group for a single player dying. The QTE is a bit aggressive, but fully doable with 2 buttons being pressed rapidly back and forth.

I like that everyone has to succeed because it makes more sense for that fight (since I suspect if you failed to escape it you wouldn't be able to return to the fight area with everyone else), and it forces people to actually put in the work instead of their corpse being yeeted across the finish by everyone else that does do the mechanic.

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Yeah, no. I also don't like that it has a huge potential for trolls to exploit it, which is what I suspect was going on the very first time I ran it when we failed six times before finally clearing it [I actually only failed the mech *once* and that was because I wasn't expecting the difficulty level.]

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

Yeah, no. I also don't like that it has a huge potential for trolls to exploit it, which is what I suspect was going on the very first time I ran it when we failed six times before finally clearing it [I actually only failed the mech *once* and that was because I wasn't expecting the difficulty level.]

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People will troll anything. People use Rescue to troll, people drop AoEs on others to troll, use Shirk to troll, etc. Does that mean everything that has potential to cause trolling should be removed? Some people even just jump off the edge of the battle area to troll people. That's not really a good reason to get rid of it.

Those things don't wipe an entire party when used to troll, this *does*. Huge difference. At least making it so it only kills the troll will make this more reasonable.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

Those things don't wipe an entire party when used to troll, this *does*. Huge difference.

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Yes they can. People dropping AoEs on an entire party can cause a wipe, a tank or the last living healer jumping off the edge can cause a wipe... Have you played this game at all?

*Can* wipe. This is *guaranteed* to wipe a partly if a troll makes use of it. Trolls dropping an aoe on top of the party can possibly be recovered. This, as it currently is, you can't.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

*Can* wipe. This is *guaranteed* to wipe a partly if a troll makes use of it. Trolls dropping an aoe on top of the party can possibly be recovered. This, as it currently is, you can't.

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Well, then grow up and kick the person trolling and move on. Instead of crying for SE to change a mechanic because of the mere concept of it being used to troll, take matters into your own hands. Leave and join a different group if you're really so certain that someone is trolling. My first time through took a few tries as well, and people weren't trolling at all. Maybe you shouldn't jump to that conclusion immediately and think that it could've possibly just been someone struggling. If you're so certain, take action. Kick them, report them, etc. If not, maybe just get over it.

People constantly say the game is brain dead easy as it is, so it's funny that as soon as it's not a total snooze fest it has to be changed.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

You want content with bite? Go run extremes/ultimates/savage. MS content *should* be easy enough for everyone to clear. Normal mode trials are *supposed* to be easy, thank you.

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No easy is posed to be easy. Normal isn't posed to be baby mode. And telling me to go play extremes doesn't answer the issue with normal having no bite at all. Normal shouldn't be so easy you can sleep and pass. That does nothing. We finally get something that ask you not to sleep. What's wrong with that?

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Originally Posted by Controller

No easy is posed to be easy. Normal isn't posed to be baby mode. And telling me to go play extremes doesn't answer the issue with normal having no bite at all. Normal shouldn't be so easy you can sleep and pass. That does nothing. We finally get something that ask you not to sleep. What's wrong with that?

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There's also lots of 'normal' difficulty content that isn't a total cake walk either. They don't all have a hard reset like that, but they're not really that 'easy' either. So it's interesting that this fight isn't too complicated, but a single mechanic that prevents people from being carried makes it have too much "bite".

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Originally Posted by Doozer

There's also lots of 'normal' difficulty content that isn't a total cake walk either. They don't all have a hard reset like that, but they're not really that 'easy' either. So it's interesting that this fight isn't too complicated, but a single mechanic that prevents people from being carried makes it have too much "bite".

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I feel me and you are on the same page. And yeah I know. I'm just happy this trial has whatever bite to it and it sucks people want to nerf it. Like I can get behind the QTE hurting people... but I can't get behind taking out the one thing in the fight that makes it have a bit of OOOFTH you know? I dunno.. maybe I just expect people to .. I dunno... play video games.

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Originally Posted by Controller

I feel me and you are on the same page. And yeah I know. I'm just happy this trial has whatever bite to it and it sucks people want to nerf it. Like I can get behind the QTE hurting people... but I can't get behind taking out the one thing in the fight that makes it have a bit of OOOFTH you know? I dunno.. maybe I just expect people to .. I dunno... play video games.

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Yes, exactly. It's nice to not able to sleep through a duty and for it to have actual significance in relation to the story. Not just another generic beatdown.

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Originally Posted by Controller

I'm just happy this trial has whatever bite to it and it sucks people want to nerf it. Like I can get behind the QTE hurting people... but I can't get behind taking out the one thing in the fight that makes it have a bit of OOOFTH you know?

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It's hilarious calling the QTE a bit of "ooofth" with "bite to it". If that's your idea of challenge, you don't want challenge at all. You want little pretend mechanics to feel like you beat a challenge. It's basically a free pass if you don't have a severe physical disability and removing it makes zero change to the actual difficulty of the fight in terms of mechanics.

Even the Doom at the start has more bite than the QTE ever will. If you want challenge ask for the Meteors or a version of Quintuplecast from EX or something.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's hilarious calling the QTE a bit of "ooofth" with "bite to it". If that's your idea of challenge, you don't want challenge at all. You want little pretend mechanics to feel like you beat a challenge. It's basically a free pass if you don't have a severe physical disability and removing it makes zero change to the actual difficulty of the fight in terms of mechanics.

Even the Doom at the start has more bite than the QTE ever will. If you want challenge ask for the Meteors or a version of Quintuplecast from EX or something.

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No not the QTE my friend. I even said you can change the QTE. The bite is the wipe mechanic. Please look at what I was saying completely and not react trying to shut anyone who doesn't agree with you please? :c

I've personally never had a problem with QTEs when I swapped to just facerolling the keyboard, but I'm not gonna kid myself and say that I would miss QTEs if they stopped doing them in their current format.

Heck I'd like QTEs that take more than 1 brain cell, like Suzaku's intermission DDR or something similar to that effect, or some sort of aoe bullet hell while the boss swaps phases, or even something that requires you to use a duty action to deal with a certain mechanic.

Just something other than mash your face into the keyboard for 15 seconds

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No not the QTE my friend. I even said you can change the QTE. The bite is the wipe mechanic.

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Which is the very part of the QTE that people are complaining about. Keep up.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Which is the very part of the QTE that people are complaining about. Keep up.

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Just because you missed a good part of the conversation, that doesn't mean other people are the ones that have to "keep up", pal. Maybe go back and read the rest of what everyone's talking about.

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Originally Posted by Controller

This is sadden because so little content in this game has a bite and everyone wants to nerf it to the ground. I get the QTE. I agree changing THAT but I can't get behind taking that mechanic out. I just can't. I want it to stay cause it's nice having normal content have a bite.

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If you need QTE for it to feel challening then something is very wrong with your fight..especially a QTE with is just button smashing. The mechanic itself is not a challenge. Heck they could give the party a debuff if someone fails..there you have a punishment which could lead to a wipe without the huge consequences..also the rest of the fight is still challenging in some ways.

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Just because you missed a good part of the conversation, that doesn't mean other people are the ones that have to "keep up", pal. Maybe go back and read the rest of what everyone's talking about.

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I did, and my response is the same. Maybe you should check yourself before throwing around baseless accusations, "buddy"

All of the hand wringing over how great, necessary and appropriate a challenge the QTEs are makes me wonder why the players who champion them so hard don't seem to want them in other content. If the QTEs are so great, why not have them in Savage and Ultimate as well but tuned so hard so that you need professional esports levels of APM to pass them? I mean, they're a great way to add challenge to the fights, right, so why not ensure they're part pf the fights intended to be the most challenging?

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All of the hand wringing over how great, necessary and appropriate a challenge the QTEs are makes me wonder why the players who champion them so hard don't seem to want them in other content. If the QTEs are so great, why not have them in Savage and Ultimate as well but tuned so hard so that you need professional esports levels of APM to pass them? I mean, they're a great way to add challenge to the fights, right, so why not ensure they're part pf the fights intended to be the most challenging?

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Shh, don't insert rational thought into this! You'll make people's heads implode!

What's rational about contradicting themselves on saying this isn't a challenge, on a thread complaining this is a challenge for some people?

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Originally Posted by Controller

No not the QTE my friend. I even said you can change the QTE. The bite is the wipe mechanic.

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The QTE is the wipe mechanic. What mechanic are you talking about?