What jobs are we hoping to see in the next expansion?

If they do add dancer, I hope it has a gap-closer that's you doing a cartwheel all the way to the target.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

PREACH! Would love to see the devs really think outside the box for the next healer job. Doesn't have to be wholly unique to XIV (ie can borrow things like Chloromancer damage-through-healing design from Rift, or HoT-stacking Resto Druid goodness from WoW), but please no more WHM ripoffs.

---

I recommend a melee healer that has to run between party members, healing them by whacking them upside the head with it's 'Staff of Caduceus' healing weapon.

One idea that's been on my mind for dancer is to make it a healer but have it work like a DoW job with combos and buffs to keep up to boost both its healing and damage as well as different combos with different effects, so for example you'd have a combo that's a pure heal (could do something like 1 and 2 are the equivalent of a Cure while 3 is the equivalent of a Cure 2) a combo to apply regens or shields, a DPS combo, so on and so forth. Could even take a page out of Monk's book and have every 1 of a combo lead into every 2, since combo actions would be dance moves this would allow you to create your own personalised dances to maximise both healing and DPS or something cheesy like that :p

I know I’ve already left my thoughts in here from earlier, but I wanted to jump in on one of the more recent discussions in here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ameela

By that logic, Warrior and Dark Knight should be pure DPS and Astro should be a DPS/Support, which they clearly aren't.
XIV doesn't necessarily need to abide by rules set by other games in the franchise and it's not like it's done that in the past, Summoner was never known for debuffing and status ailments but that's their main identity in this game, Red Mage was always identified by its ability to use both healing and offensive magic to great extent yet the healing part of it takes a huge backseat in this game as well, Bard was never really known for being useful and wow would you look at that!

Dancer can absolutely be a healer even if it wasn't one in the previous games.

---

This. So much this. Take my like. I’ll add my own opinion to this though.

IMO, if the “DPS only!” crowd got their wish, PLD would be our only Tank job, while healers would only have WHM and SCH. ... Actually, scratch that. We’d only have WHM for healing and SCH probably wouldn’t even exist. I sometimes wonder if those people who insist on making every popular job as DPS ever stop to wonder how boring it would be for Tank and Healer mains to have only one option to pick if they wanted to tank or heal. It’d be similar to having only two DPS jobs to pick from for the light party dungeons.

Considering how long this game has been out already and plans to be... leaving Tanks and Healers with only the current three jobs for the entire rest of the game would understandably tick off a lot of the Tank and Healer mains, leaving them to grumble about how DPS are the only ones who get shiny new toys. At worst, we’d lose yet more Tank and Healer mains to the infamous DPS congestion duty finder cue times.

This is why a new Tank and Healer job should be introduced in 5.0. Not to try and pull in new people mind you. (That’s a bonus) But to keep the current Tank and Healer mains happy, by giving them more flavors to pick from. But this time around, we DON’T want just another Tank and Healer this time. We want the next Tank and Healer to be bold and make an actual effort to stand out this time. IMO, this is why Dancer should be a Healer. Just the potential move set alone would make Dancer stand out far more from our current healers. (Physical TP actions for combat and possibly healing would automatically set Dancer apart from our caster healers)

Finally, any time I see someone attempt to point out why a job could never work out as a Tank or Healer, I will ALWAYS quickly point to DRK. (And by extension, thinking about it, WAR) If they can make DRK a Tank for this game, then ANY job has the potential to be a Tank or Healer. Some more then others.

I know I’m probably starting to sound like a broken record who probably sounds like I’m repeating “TANK AND HEALER! TANK AND HEALER! No DPS jobs!”, but in my defense, it’s not the DPS jobs that annoy me. In fact, there’s several DPS jobs I even like to play as quite a bit. (SMN, MNK, SAM, RDM... and a little bit of NIN on the side) It’s just that I’m sick and tired of seeing Tanks and Healers frequently getting the short end of the stick via in-game chat, on this forum... and even the developers themselves at times. (Not letting that “Tank and Healer balance!” excuse go any time soon) Us Tank and Healer players just want more variety in our preferred roles, just like the DPS. Is that really so wrong?

tl;dr version:
DRK is in as a Tank. If DRK can be a Tank, then Dancer can be a Healer.

what ppl are talking about? Astro is a support dps like WHM, SCH and PLD

Kappa

I believe DNC has the potential to shake things up as we know it, and this can be a very good thing if they do it right. If it is introduced, I can't see it being anything other than a healer. If the next expansion comes without a new healer, heads on pikes will be demanded from the playerbase. I would say the jobs in highest demand right now are dancer, geomancer, blue mage, and chemist. Out of those, DNC is the best candidate for a new healer imo.

I don't see the job as a healer/physical melee hybrid, but rather a healer/ranged DPS hybrid that uses a weaponized ribbon, fans, or chakrams to attack. If done right, I think the abilities can even appeal to hardcore DPS players to try their hands at healing. I do see combos as being a huge gimmick to what the job brings. Weaponized combos would grant buffs to pDPS and/or mob debuffs, while dancing combos grants buffs to the self and party.

These are just ideas in my head and not actual suggestions. It can't be another copy/paste with a new gimmick like astro. It truly needs its own identity like WHM and SCH.

Thematically speaking, I'd like a tank that is focused around mitigation via phasing, teleporting and arcane shields.

I'm struggling to see dancer as a healer. Probably due to a little bias as I have always loved being that pretty lily that dances across the field dealing quick critical strikes and inflicting massive amounts of status ailments and party buffs. I agree maybe tanks and healers need a more engaging job. Let that be something other than dancer. If needed lets wait on dancer till the healers and tanks are satisfied.. I don't know if anyone else agrees with me but this is where I stand with a job I have been waiting for since starting XIV.

I'm just going to speak on a personal level others can add how they feel. Dancer comes very dear to my heart.... I have always loved the job since I had the pleasure to play it in tactics and again to a much grander stage in XI. If for whatever reason they obliged the masses with this.... idea.... then they had better do it right. Cause if it turns out to be a cast out job like it started out being in XI during its debut... just to appeal to these people screaming for a healer job when there are many other options to fill that want.... many others not just myself may quit due to this travesty. Sorry to get so personal with this, but as I said dancer is my heart and I would hate to see it be done in an awful light.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deathrose88

I'm struggling to see dancer as a healer. Probably due to a little bias as I have always loved being that pretty lily that dances across the field dealing quick critical strikes and inflicting massive amounts of status ailments and party buffs. I agree maybe tanks and healers need a more engaging job. Let that be something other than dancer. If needed lets wait on dancer till the healers and tanks are satisfied.. I don't know if anyone else agrees with me but this is where I stand with a job I have been waiting for since starting XIV.

---

DNC will be that pretty lily that dances all over the place regardless of the role, I assure you. However, I see no reason why DNC cannot do everything you mentioned and still heal. As a true healer/DPS hybrid, it would have to bring considerable pDPS to the table, but the utility it brings would have to keep things balanced so it doesn't horse kick the other healers right out of endgame.

I am quite sure that everyone wants their favorite job to coincide with their favorite role. If yours is DPS, that is perfectly fair. But I think if done right, a healer DNC can appeal to to DPS main who also likes the job.

If they do go this healer route I sure hope your right... frankly not a fan of be a healer of any kind but if it still feels like a dps in the end fine I suppose I can try and support it but it will still have to feel like that aggressive dps I will forever play it as regardless.

Optimization of our current healers has them rely on regens and ogcds to do the bulk of their healing to maximize DPS uptime. There are definitely times where all three of them feel like just another DPS role in the group. However, at the end of the day they are still healers and will be required to do so when the group is taking damage, and also have to abide to healer specific mechanics in battle.

Because there really are no mechanics to it other than smash button X while keeping up DoTs, DPSing as healer can feel a bit brainless. This is where I think DNC can switch things up. AST has its cards; SCH has their fairy, and WHM is the straight forward healer. DNC can implement the combos through their dances and flashy DPS skills. Make those DPS combos a requirement to execute those elegant dance moves that provide utility to the group and/or pump up their healing and damage potencies.

I can tell you like the job though and want it in the game. If it is brought in, I do hope you can find enjoyment in it no matter what role it ends up being.

I think they'll go with what's popular demand, coming from SB. So that's definitely Dancer and Blue Mage. Then there's Beastmaster, Geomancer, Mystic Knight, Chemist (would probably get renamed), or they'll just make an FFXIV 'original' job like "Gunblade" which they'll probably call Magitek Knight or something.

Honestly I don't care as long as they're well-designed, balanced and fun because the new jobs we've had since ARR had glaring problems.

Tank with a 2-hand hammer, whatever it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dinnertime

I think they'll go with what's popular demand, coming from SB. So that's definitely Dancer and Blue Mage. Then there's Beastmaster, Geomancer, Mystic Knight, Chemist (would probably get renamed), or they'll just make an FFXIV 'original' job like "Gunblade" which they'll probably call Magitek Knight or something.

Honestly I don't care as long as they're well-designed, balanced and fun because the new jobs we've had since ARR had glaring problems.

---

Sadly, we didn't get a healer or tank in HW because the developers said they wanted to balance the ones they had. Both roes were a mess at HW launch with clear favorites with questionable abilities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Sadly, we didn't get a healer or tank in HW because the developers said they wanted to balance the ones they had. Both roes were a mess at HW launch with clear favorites with questionable abilities.

---

Yeah, I agree. Balance of the tanks has been really sketchy all through SB, with PLD being definitively the best, WAR having party utility duct taped to it's skin to be useful after having been uberbuffed and reworked, and DRK needing 6ish months to be reworked to a state that will placate the ones that are complaining about it. Hopefully 5.0 will be able to better balance the jobs we have.

Wait, which expansion were we talking about again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dinnertime

or they'll just make an FFXIV 'original' job like "Gunblade" which they'll probably call Magitek Knight or something.

---

That'll more than likely be what MCH becomes in 5.0 possible with teacher being you know who.
Dancer would be interesting if doesn't have MNKs level of positional's/stacks if does rip it as a healer."add though I feel if we get healer DNC it would level with MNK like SMN/SCH, due job similarities.
Personally want Garlean Jobs like Judge especially since love Judges Armour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dinnertime

I think they'll go with what's popular demand, coming from SB. So that's definitely Dancer and Blue Mage. Then there's Beastmaster, Geomancer, Mystic Knight, Chemist (would probably get renamed), or they'll just make an FFXIV 'original' job like "Gunblade" which they'll probably call Magitek Knight or something.

Honestly I don't care as long as they're well-designed, balanced and fun because the new jobs we've had since ARR had glaring problems.

---

Funny thing about BST (and I know many won't agree with me on this) is that I think it could actually be made into another DoL class. But it wouldn't be a pushover like the current DoL classes. This one can and needs to fight outworld mobs to work. It can be designed in a way to make gathering 'kill-mats' (skins, blood, wings, fangs, etc.) far more efficient than with a retainer or hunting with a DoW/DoM class.

Crap! I think this just might be the best idea I've ever posted on these forums. Why isn't this already a thing?! lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SargentToughie

Yeah, I agree. Balance of the tanks has been really sketchy all through SB

---

Tank balance is better in SB than it was in HW.

Dark Knight lags behind a little bit, but it's nowhere near as bad as Paladin was in HW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

Funny thing about BST (and I know many won't agree with me on this) is that I think it could actually be made into another DoL class. But it wouldn't be a pushover like the current DoL classes. This one can and needs to fight outworld mobs to work. It can be designed in a way to make gathering 'kill-mats' (skins, blood, wings, fangs, etc.) far more efficient than with a retainer or hunting with a DoW/DoM class.

Crap! I think this just might be the best idea I've ever posted on these forums. Why isn't this already a thing?! lol

---

There was a thought about a herder type class so you could create cheese and other things, so they kinda went in that way, but it was before HW I think

A Damage type of Dancer Healer i think would keep people more engaged as currently many healers get bored while healing.
Tank i really have no idea what to suggest but it would need to be something totally different then what we have currently or so is my hope. SE like to re-use assets so who knows, lol

it will be the best to know from which level the new job will start, for sure from 60lvl?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForctyusGold

it will be the best to know from which level the new job will start, for sure from 60lvl?

---

I'd guess 50 so people can do most of the story with it (like SAM/RDM)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

Funny thing about BST (and I know many won't agree with me on this) is that I think it could actually be made into another DoL class. But it wouldn't be a pushover like the current DoL classes. This one can and needs to fight outworld mobs to work. It can be designed in a way to make gathering 'kill-mats' (skins, blood, wings, fangs, etc.) far more efficient than with a retainer or hunting with a DoW/DoM class.

Crap! I think this just might be the best idea I've ever posted on these forums. Why isn't this already a thing?! lol

---

They did have preliminary plans for a shepherd class pre-1.0. And actually, this isn't a half bad idea. I'm sure most people would agree that the drop rates on mats from monsters is god-awful, and BST in this role could have a boosted amount. The pets you use probably wouldn't amount to much more than flavor, but if they didn't have to give each one a specific purpose they'd be free to let you have your choice of critter. I'd say have the BST itself still be pretty useless in battle, maybe less squishy than other gatherers, but the pet does the legwork. Their various skills would be used to buff the pet, guarantee HQ drops on the next kill, and otherwise translate typical HoL skills to combat results. They could pair this with a needed change to combat retainers, upping their max returns on an item to 20 like the others.

Some of these items might be covered in other thoughts, but I would love to see these 2:

Elemental-Magic Tank
Weapon: a handle / hilt / grip. The tank would imbue the grip with one of the elemental affinities. it would create the weapon and add a benefit/debuff (10% chance) if there was a critical hit on the mob. Their skills would be the same for all the weapon types, but attuned to the elemental affinity.

• fire weapon = burning debuff
  ice weapon = slow debuff
  air weapon = attack speed buff
  water = heal over time buff
  electricity = shocking debuff (paralysis)
  earth = defense buff

Chanter/Aura Healer
Weapon: Shakujo (Buddhist ringed staff) They would chant/use aura to heal those in close proximity to them (melee healer). Their main heals would be in the fact that the auras/chants are up almost all the time(max 2 auras). A visual aspect of the chant finishing would be the tap of the staff on the ground and the rings chime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Portah_Potty

Some of these items might be covered in other thoughts, but I would love to see these 2:

Elemental-Magic Tank
Weapon: a handle / hilt / grip. The tank would imbue the grip with one of the elemental affinities. it would create the weapon and add a benefit/debuff (10% chance) if there was a critical hit on the mob. Their skills would be the same for all the weapon types, but attuned to the elemental affinity.

• fire weapon = burning debuff
  ice weapon = slow debuff
  air weapon = attack speed buff
  water = heal over time buff
  electricity = shocking debuff (paralysis)
  earth = defense buff

---

so would you like to see it as a "tanky" version of rdm mechanically?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ordoric

so would you like to see it as a "tanky" version of rdm mechanically?

---

RDM isn't the pioneer of weapon enchantment that title goes to Mystic Knight or Rune Knight I don't remember which came first.

The only FF that I can remember RDM using weapon enchantments are in FFXI and that game doesn't define the series.

Mystic knight in FF5

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kikix12

Dancer is so much different from other healers esthetically and thematically, that them making a dancer healer and not making it somehow unique would be quite a challenge.

---

I believe there is at this point enough evidence to easily wager they'd be up to that challenge.

Quote:

---

I mean, another caster is just going to be another caster. But a non-caster doing what's normally considered a magical feat? That requires some thought put into it to be reasonable, so unless they want to make a completely different class and just slap on "Dancer" on its title...yeah. They'll have to go original or go bust.

---

I don't mean to merely pull on semantic threads here, but aren't Paladins and Dark Knights already examples of that? And yet that fact alone holds almost no differentiating mechanics; their CD flow, banking, and sense of prepositioning as made necessary by certain encounters does far more to influence the feeling of their gameplay then whether the swordsman is "ooh! ahhh!" spending GCDs on damage that happens to be classified as magic. Types aren't really felt. Their consequences are. And there is a long stretch between simply being different do to x factor and feeling different -- having different opportunities/responsibilities bestowed/thrust upon you. You can't assume that the prior will cause the latter.

And while I'd love to say sure, of course it's a case of "go original or go bust"... that still leaves the option of going bust -- and, as you're latter half posits, being satisfied with that.

As for the latter half of your response...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kikix12

And yet...no one really seems to care for healers/tanks to have some uniqueness to them in any way, shape or form. Tanks and healers are bland not only in mechanics, but also thematically, for the most part. Every cool class concept seems to be dragged into the DPS tree.

This is an MMO game. Comparing the jobs to a single-player game, where tanks or healers archetypes don't really exist in the same form, is bad. But there needs to be tanks and healers in an MMO that is based on the role trinity. Something needs to do that. Giving more generic "knight" sort for tanks and generic magical healing is just going to be extremely boring even beyond the mechanics. Healer/tank playing players want some really cool class concepts to be sent their way too.

---

I... think you're preaching to the choir here? ...Though the questions below should clarify this more thoroughly.

Quote:

---

no one really seems to care for healers/tanks to have some uniqueness to them in any way, shape or form.

---

So, people are content with homogeneity.

Quote:

---

Every cool class concept seems to be dragged into the DPS tree.

---

Which is why I said, as things are now, only the DPS role seems remotely capable of giving Dancer any semblance of truly interesting (and, though of secondary importance, unique) gameplay -- whether that be based in part on former games or not.

Quote:

---

This is an MMO game. Comparing the jobs to a single-player game, where tanks or healers archetypes don't really exist in the same form, is bad.

---

By that logic, imagining Dancer in any setting but XI and XIV's is inherently flawed. I can understand where you're coming from, but I fundamentally disagree.

Quote:

---

But there needs to be tanks and healers in an MMO that is based on the role trinity.

---

"But"? What was inverted between "MMO classes can only be modelled after MMOs" and "Tanks and healers can only be built from the role trinity template"? I again disagree with both statements, but they seem cohesive to each other. Why the "but"? What am I missing?

Quote:

---

Giving more generic "knight" sort for tanks and generic magical healing is just going to be extremely boring even beyond the mechanics.

---

So, people are content with homogeneity, but also bored by it? I'd usually consider these mostly mutually exclusive. (Granted, one can be contentedly bored, so there's that...)

Quote:

---

Healer/tank playing players want some really cool class concepts to be sent their way too.

---

Again, I'm all for that. But a cool concept in theory does not necessarily make a cool concept in actual play.
Consider:

1. Take all the selling points one can imagine -- from sources new or old -- for a class like Dancer.
2. Imagine, thoroughly, how many of those things can survive being sifted into the healer/tank trinity templates. Or, how many are derivable directly from a tank/healer template as used for the other tanks and healers?

I'd wager the factors able to survive or be reverse-engineered through XIV's templates would be both a pitiful minority and insufficient for cohesive and satisfying gameplay.

Now, one could take the surviving factors, iterate upon them, and come up with something that is gameplay-enjoyable. And if that small chance actually meets success, I'd be happy with that. But I'd be in at most a thin majority; plenty others would despise the bastardization of a concept with more potential, seeing its implementation as a waste of all the things greater that the concept could have accomplished.


To be fair, we could still make a lot more interesting healers and tanks out of the role trinity if the community would allow it. But thus far, any advantage or disadvantage at any juncture of any encounter is met with serious criticism. A healer at least has a cohealer to compensate, more so than any main tank does, but we find that role's criticisms only faintly more lenient.

Consider the strengths and weaknesses of WoW's healing specializations: Restoration Shaman, Restoration Druid, Holy Paladin, Holy Priest, Discipline Priest, and Mistweaver Monk. Each of those has notably different niches, and though many now have a speedy mana-inefficient heal alongside a standard, slower, more mana-efficient one, most other parts of their toolkits do not overlap.

Personally, in those terms I see the ideal niche of Dancer as a blend between the Paladin, Monk, Shaman, and maybe the Discipline, in descending order of proximity -- healing concentrated in bursts of activity with notable downtime in which to weave supportive effects through combat, catching the momentum of its skills -- damaging or curative/supportive alike -- to upsurge output and play the synergist to its team, and finally -- during the effects of at least one song -- go ham on enemies as a way to heal those around him through that damage dealt. Altogether, it make for a generally balanced yet truly unique (pseudo)-healer job.

But that doesn't allow for consistent Cure-II-equivalents at x GCDs, raid heal ability blown at y minutes and z seconds, or shields of strength A or HoTs of strength B. And thus, to all spammable extents and purposes, it would be just a pseudo-healer, and just by distinction from the mostly indistinct other healers, it'd likely be considered overpowered in any situation that requires little overall healing, for its simultaneous output, and underpowered for any significant content. While I feel that for anything shorter in difficulty than Savage or greater in party count than a 4-man these perceived imbalances would be survivable, it's the community you'd likely have to convince even more than the developers, because, as -- as best I can understand from your words -- no one really seems to care that tanks and healers are just different slants of the same template, rather than built from their own style first and balanced only later, even while most of us are also simultaneously disappointed somewhat by each additional healer or tank that meets only those lackluster expectations. Uniqueness, or actual design from job concept first, with the template only a final check for parity, is inherently too unique at this point not to be seen as imbalanced. And even I'll agree with the community that a job's imbalance (especially towards overpoweredness), if general or frequent enough, can feel worse than the job never being added. That's the situation you're building for.

Without do steps to diversify the healers we have, is that really something you want to bring Dancer into, anywhere near its full potential?

I want a Dancer, a real Dancer -- not just in any XI traditional sense but in terms of every ounce of fun you can milk out of every concept, combat, lore, animation, quirks, and tangential elements to each, from the idea of a dancer. But without something in class design and how it's perceived budging beforehand -- which I want regardless of Dancer being added or not -- I honestly feel like being a supportive DPS akin to a Bard or Ninja will at least cut out fewer of its unique and interesting mechanics than would, say, a healer.

exactly as shurrikhan says is what I'm worried about when we talk about making dancer a healer.... in theory it may work but will it be the best fit for the job? It's also like we were considering possible making samurai a tank... could it have been done? Sure.... but is it the best fit for the job?... no it's not and thus it ended up being a cool dps. I really don't feel dancer's place is as a healer no matter how much people may want it to be so.... I hope the dev team heeds our words and see the logic in why dancer and all it's uniqueness fits far better as a dps than it ever will as a healer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deathrose88

exactly as shurrikhan says is what I'm worried about when we talk about making dancer a healer.... in theory it may work but will it be the best fit for the job? It's also like we were considering possible making samurai a tank... could it have been done? Sure.... but is it the best fit for the job?... no it's not and thus it ended up being a cool dps. I really don't feel dancer's place is as a healer no matter how much people may want it to be so.... I hope the dev team heeds our words and see the logic in why dancer and all it's uniqueness fits far better as a dps than it ever will as a healer.

---

I for one, am not inclined to believe that a job has to be made into a DPS job to be interesting. Maybe that is not the direct statement being made, but it is the impression that is given off when we speak of where a job 'fits', which is subjective to the preferred playstyle of the person that wants it in the game.

The devs can't just keep adding DPS job to the game because they can't figure out how to implement a truly different and diverse healer and tank. Between the last two expansions, DPS jobs were increased by three, while healers and tanks got one a piece. Even though I think the split is pretty even-steven between healer and DPS mains, I think the cries will be louder heard from those who want to heal with this job if it is not made so.

I can say this though, I would sure hate to be the guy that has to make that call.

Well answer me this.... normally healers are able to throw out heals at command via their cure I cure II spells ( not including OGCD) even if we let dancer melee to heal.... you really think something like that will stand in something like savage where your heals can't be bound to a completed combo? It just feels like a disaster in the making a shadow of what dancer can really be if we focus on the martial art of the job. As I mentioned before I am with you that healers and tanks (imo healers moreso) need something more engaging.... healing as it is now is snoresvill even when you are trying to maximize dps on top of it. They need something fresh, but this would be like trying to make bard healer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deathrose88

Well answer me this.... normally healers are able to throw out heals at command via their cure I cure II spells ( not including OGCD) even if we let dancer melee to heal.... you really think something like that will stand in something like savage where your heals can't be bound to a completed combo? It just feels like a disaster in the making a shadow of what dancer can really be if we focus on the martial art of the job. As I mentioned before I am with you that healers and tanks (imo healers moreso) need something more engaging.... healing as it is now is snoresvill even when you are trying to maximize dps on top of it. They need something fresh, but this would be like trying to make bard healer.

---

Even if DNC is broken upon release, the devs will fix it.

The consensus for healer optimization is already "DPS until you have to heal". This is absolute in all group content from dungeons to savage, and applies to all of our current healers. Mitigative abilities via shields is more advanced healing that requires SCHs and noct ASTs to know fights and/or be very familiar with mechanics if they don't. The game's optimal healers already put this into practice. They are all ripe for a more intricate and sophisticated DPS gimmick that brings something new to the table. Trust me, a conceived worst case scenario where the job is only 'good enough' to be in savage is actually better than a more likely scenario of the job being just 'good enough' to keep raids healed while pumping out more DPS than any other healer. This will boot all other healers right out of savage.

I will not argue that the devs will have far more flexibility with the design of DNC if they chose to make it a DPS. However, such is true for any job they introduce into the game. That kind of flexibility basically gives them the ability to design DNC anyway they want to and make it a plug 'n play. This dev team was once challenged with rebooting FFXIV from the ground up. They did it. An unfortunate coincidence of this success are high expectations to overcome additional challenges in the future. That is the challenge they have with the DNC job, and they know it.

The devs boxed themselves in a corner. I believe they knew this when many people mistook Lysa as being a DNC with the 4.0 teasers. Hell, they even admit it in her minion description. They inadvertently rose the demand for DNC to be in the game, but since no new healer came with 4.0, the pressure to make DNC a healer is far greater than to make it a DPS. Then add the aforementioned challenge of doing so. The silver lining is DNC actually has the potential to bring something new to the healing community, while pushing DPS players wanting to give their go at healing more rewarding incentive to do so. It is a VERY good thing and in the devs best interest to incentivize the other roles so that the even the most dedicated will waver and leave their comfort zones to give them a go.

I think dancer would be cool with a 'build your own oGCD' gimmick, created through a par of pseudo dark arts style abilities.

Samba: saves next 'dance step', additional effect: HP leech.
Waltz: saves next 'dance step', additional effect: shield.

You have your standard ST heal, regen, AoE heal abilities on GCD, your samba and waltz as rapid oGCD abilities, your job gauge is the dance gauge. Dance gauge memorizes the last 3 moves committed to it with samba and waltz and merges them into a big oGCD "dance" move.

So using "Waltz, ST heal, Samba, ST heal, Samba, AoE heal", would create a dance that has a medium strength ST instant heal (the 2 ST heals) with a weak AoE heal (the 1 AoE heal), secondary effects would be a weak shield on the target (using waltz to save 1 of the cures), a weak HP steal effect on the target (using samba to save the other ST cure) and a weak HP steal effect granted to everyone caught in the AoE heal (samba to save the AoE heal.)

Maybe, I don't know, seems a bit complicated reading it back. Felt like it would flow better when I thought of it.

tl;dr using samba or waltz, save 3 GCD abilities to dance gauge, use "dance" ability to throw all 3 saved abilities plus additional effects out at once.

i always figure if dancer was a thing it would have something similar to Mudras (just not as laggy) for its heals
maybe in away you can store the effect of the spell instead of frantically dancing up your spell in a panic .

But a higher percentage of people that wanted Dancer have wanted it to be a healer (myself included). We have enough dps for the next few expansions and healers are A) often bored and B) asked to dps so having Dancer as a damage dealing kind of healer may solve those 2
I guess they would need to be very careful going that route however as it could take away from the existing healers and the outcries if it ends up doing more damage then dps jobs so balance will be needed.
As others have said it may be bad at the beginning but would get fixed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I want a Dancer, a real Dancer -- not just in any XI traditional sense but in terms of every ounce of fun you can milk out of every concept, combat, lore, animation, quirks, and tangential elements to each, from the idea of a dancer. But without something in class design and how it's perceived budging beforehand -- which I want regardless of Dancer being added or not -- I honestly feel like being a supportive DPS akin to a Bard or Ninja will at least cut out fewer of its unique and interesting mechanics than would, say, a healer.

---

So you think because Dancer might not be a DPS it won't be a real Dancer? There is only one prerequisite for a Dancer and that is that they must be dancing as much as possible and just because it might become a healer doesn't mean they won't be doing their specialty. Honestly I feel DPS players need to get out of their bubble and be enticed to try the healer and tanking roles. And by adding popular jobs to these roles it helps. Now, about Square Enix being afraid to do anything unique with their healers or tank perhaps that's true, but eventually they will have to try something new since they cannot continue to copy and paste healer or tank jobs or they will just end up alienating their tank and healer players causing even a bigger problem.

i think all are possible, but you know, they need some story and place they are coming from... i think its more complex :P im more for weather mage :D

I am hoping for Morpher as a DPS class and Blue mage or some kind of Magic tank

Really hoping for a new healer and tank jobs. Specifically Dancer. But I wouldnt be surprised if it was 2 new dps jobs. But if they do add 2 new dps jobs then they will need another incentive for people who play tank and healer jobs.