Live Letter 3.2 tank changes, vit effects tank attack

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Originally Posted by Synestra

These "custom builds" ended in era of second coil, since that its always been same STR focused build, also i didnt know doing 3 gearsets is challenge... I think STR might endup being our new best secondary stat instead crit/det, so with new materia slots it means more customization for tanks and other jobs aswell.

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I believe that come next patch they have said mainstat will no longer be allowed in melding (str/dex/int/mnd/vit/pie).

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Originally Posted by Tsilyi

I believe that come next patch they have said mainstat will no longer be allowed in melding (str/dex/int/mnd/vit/pie).

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The ban is on overmelds.

@Alex

You can correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that you are saying that a VIT build allows for a suboptimal mitigation rotation in Thordan. What is the benefit of taking a heel with only foresight? I can't think of any part of that fight where I would breathe a sigh of relief as a healer because the tank ate a heel with arguably the worst defensive CD in the game. Won't rampart and/or sheltron be up for all of them, and I am not even sure those are the best ones you can use.

So I take your point, but I don't think that's a great example. If anything that's a bad thing, because it's just another excuse for people to progress by doing the absolute bare minimum.

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Originally Posted by Istede

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Lost in translation, I guess.

There is no benefit for taking a heavenly heel with foresight. It is dumb. Dumb mitigation, poor planning by the tank and it is a TERRIBLE WAY TO TANK (not yelling just emphasizing). But it is possible to do. Everything you said is absolutely correct. I am not promoting this in any way (revisit the part that i fear on that post)

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Originally Posted by AlexiIvaniskavich

BUT..... Fending accessories never had defense.. (why do people keep saying this?)
Divine veil - TBH an extra 500 hp shield on me isn't that big of a deal, it does mean more for the party which is quite nice.
Stoneskin..... really? again, 500 hp is a miniscule adjustment (but yes, something is something)

Squishy tanks are tanks that don't mitigate properly - never mattered if they were str or vit. A good healer could handle either type of tank that mitigated properly. Hell, I can heal and handle those types of tanks....

My biggest fear within all of this: I cringe when I watch today's VIT tanks mitigate tank busters using their weakest defensive CD. They do it because they have soooo much health, they don't have to think about what they are actually doing, Mongo just push buttons. Unless SE just simply doesn't tune fights to put out enough damage, these types of tanks are going to get wrecked, because they don't bother to learn how to mitigate properly.

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Oh great, we're going to talk about how skill is everything and how this somehow under minds your skillz again.
Enough with the idealism! And talk real.
Squishy tanks are tanks that takes less to kill you. There is no if ands or but about it. You have significantly less HP which makes you easier to kill. You use more forms of mitigation than otherwise because you are easier to kill. You require less heals to be 100% because you are easier to kill. Healers having to heal you back up to from 25~50% back to 100% more frequently than someone with more HP is because you are easier to kill. Easy to kill=SQUISHY. Clearly in your mind skill is the only thing that matters. Clearly you can beat savage naked with your back turned, because you're so skilled. Go on tell me how that's going to turn out. No wait. If it involves a kick, being carried, and/or simply because you can't then keep it to yourself and don't come back to me mindlessly spouting skill is everything. It's not and neither is power. I don't even have to spoon feed that last bit but apparently I got to stress that without power your skill means nothing, and without skill your power means nothing, because again, to you skill is everything when it is in fact not in this game. That alone is not an opinion.

Even in that quote I said no more squishy tanks by low HP. Not negligence! It baffles me as to how you think NEGLIGENCE is worth bringing up. This is a good thing, but NOPE here you come saying that absolute none of this matters as though this and what I say means we don't have anything anymore.

More HP is more Defense, no matter how little or big it is. The very fact it makes you in someway harder to kill is the very definition of what defense is. This isn't WoW, where numbers are ludicrous compared to here, so much that 500HP tacked on your 1,000,000 means nothing. And you do know how much HP pure str tanks even have right? Some pure STR tanks that have 15K could of have 21K and effectively 2100 more from stoneskin. That is an 8,000 HP difference. That's a big jump where our tankbusters commonly do 10Ks and 20Ks. Some of us would rather not boil our options against sword knight in Thordan EX down to Hallow Ground or DIE. Healers would love 500 extra HP to their heals and barriers. It adds up and we're not even at non-crit 10K heals and barriers.

Additionally in my post about this is a DPS boon. More HP/defense in the form of making Vitality, a defensive attribute, be our tanks' source of attack power will help Healers, whom you rely on to DPS to beat A1S, A2S, and somehow A3S, have more room to fight while not negatively affecting threat so that DPS can do whatever they want more. Was it ever a problem before? I don't care, it's not going to happen anymore, at least not unless you did literally nothing.

And what do think you're trying to argue by bringing up something even pure STR tanks already and most importantly WOULD do if they could. The game even in its hardest most broken fights conforms to the worst possible vitality instead of enforcing the need for more defense from the very start. It's obvious because WoW at one point had the exact same problem and also if the parry stat ANY indication at all. T9 was just simon says; people were doing solo tank method early because that's how little it hurts. And yet here instead of enjoying how much better things will be, you go worrying that THIS will now under mind skill or your skill for that matter. Some of those players do less because they know they can get away with it. Sometimes it's stupid because they count only on a perfect world to succeed and they fail because of it. Other times it's smart because why blow it all when there's worse things on the way.

Not too long ago you clashed with me saying that even 1.6K barriers are useless and that you'd do none of the things that'd interferes with your parses. Now you're saying everything's fine so as long there's a healer there to carry you. And even gloating about being able to carry as heals. I can do it too, but you see me gloat about it. You apparently seem more intend on blindly spiting whatever it is I say despite whatever good it means for us all.

I say yay more HP/Defense=more offensive for everyone; you say boo no defense, everyone no skill.

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Originally Posted by AlexiIvaniskavich

Lost in translation, I guess.

There is no benefit for taking a heavenly heel with foresight. It is dumb. Dumb mitigation, poor planning by the tank and it is a TERRIBLE WAY TO TANK (not yelling just emphasizing). But it is possible to do. Everything you said is absolutely correct. I am not promoting this in any way (revisit the part that i fear on that post)

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Exactly, and if anyone doesn't think that this could happen, realize that it's already a thing with other roles in the game, primarily DPS who play like crap because "high DPS isn't required for this fight, so it's possible for me to be lazy".

I hope the devs take into account the large HP pools that all tanks will have now when designing future content, as a STR build won't be viable anymore, and make monsters damage us accordingly, or it will just promote lazy play among lazy tanks.

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

misniformation

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I suggest you do a little research before coming up with such a long and misinformed response. No, higher HP does not outright equal more defense, as a healer is healing you when you take damage regardless of your HP. Surviving a tank buster with 18k HP and one with 22k HP will make your healer heal you regardless. The main difference is how many heals you need in order to be topped off. Look at the tank forums and see the benefits that gearing up with STR currently bring, like stronger self heals (oh look, its own form of more defense), better agro, letting you use your utility combos instead of relying on your agro combo, and better DPS, letting you kill thing faster, which is its own form of mitigation.

Your last sentence/paragraph is you misunderstanding things. No one is saying that with the future metagame, more HP=bad, we're just discussing that if newer fights aren't tuned around a bigger HP pool, it might promote laziness within tanks, due getting away with not using cooldowns properly, like they can't do now in current endgame.

I think the problem with RiisWolf's mentality here (and I see this pretty frequently) is that healers aren't healing all the time, regardless of HP pool size. The reason for this is that Medica 2, Regen, and Fairy heals can cover auto attacks near completely - and outside of this we only have cleaves and tank busters. So for a healer, in a raid, they basically want to top you up for tank busters and cleaves - which will take less healing for a tank with lower HP. From there, the tank is hit with the cleave or the tank buster, whether he survives or not depends on how much HP he has. Everything past that amount is a cushion, something that allows for a crit auto attack (the biggest threat to your life) to still not kill you and leave your healer room to heal you up from all the damage. The less health you have past this point the easier you'll be to heal to full. Once you're at full, we're back to auto attacks and other mechanics. There's a vast difference between having too little HP and just enough HP - I think this mentality assumes the former rather than the latter.

That said, in 3.2, everyone will gladly take the extra HP - while it isn't necessary for survival (or it could be if they also increase boss damage) it doesn't come at the cost of something else, so there's no reason not to have it.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I think the problem with RiisWolf's mentality here (and I see this pretty frequently) is that healers aren't healing all the time, regardless of HP pool size.

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Yeah the problem with his thought process that is it assumes that by "topping" off or creating a cushion with excess HP means you will survive the buster & require less healing - when in reality and in practice the healing required to cap off and the heals to survive post-buster are within a cast or two at most. Not a appreciable difference; currently Tank DPS is a very real appreciable difference - and that is precisely why people build STR and push damage once they hit the "safe zone" with their HP.

Fights are scripted. Incoming damage is consistent if being mitigated properly - which it should be, since it's scripted, and so that means the amount of Healing output only varies when DPS eat extra damage or a Tank messes up their cooldown rotation.

More than half his post was rather unintelligible - or at least highly notional rather than factual or observable.

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

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While I'll be the first to agree that currently, Fending tank ≠ shitty player, this response is a little... whoa...

Can't we just all get along? All of this shit will be moot in a few weeks anyway and it'll be more clear than ever who is a good tank and who isn't.

Although people try to equate HP and "defense" (i.e. damage reduction) during tankbusters (using concepts such as eHP) to determine whether a tank survives a hit, the two stats aren't actually interchangeable.

HP and % damage reduction stats (def/mdef) influence the total amount of unhealed damage you can take. % damage reduction stats (def/mdef) and parry/block influence the rate of incoming damage. Outside of tankbusters, tanks and healers are primarily responding to the rate, not the total amount. (If the former is like "distance", the latter is like "velocity").

As an example, if the rate of incoming damage is less than regen + fairy, the healer has complete freedom to dps. As the rate of damage increases, more of those offensive spell casts have to be substituted with curative spells to match the rate, and the reverse is true if a tank or healer cooldown (i.e. rampart, divine seal) is used. Stats on gear that influence % damage reduction (i.e. the ilvl of your left side tank gear pieces) help with this as well.

Your ability to dps on a tank or healer comes from your knowledge of damage patterns and correctly matching the rate of incoming damage. Tanks do this primarily by adjusting the incoming damage through their stance and defensive cooldowns. Healers do this primarily by substituting heals and offensive spell casts, as well as by titrating up (divine seal) or down (cleric stance) the rate of outgoing healing. Healer DPS and healing are interwoven together.

Outside of tankbusters, HP becomes an important factor on a healer if you treat your tank's HP bar like a black mage does their MP bar, alternating between no outgoing healing at all to panicked, compensatory healing without outgoing dps. If a portion of the tank's HP bar stays unfilled for the entirety of the fight, it's as if it doesn't exist (you might as well not have it). HP matters in this case only because the tank's HP is intermittently being brought into a range where even autos are dangerous. Correctly matching the rate of incoming damage with outgoing tank cooldowns and heals resolves this problem.

From the healer perspective:

1. Str tanks have to use Defensive CDs properly, which is hard to do and tonz of tanks fail at it.

2. Big HP pools require no skill, it is simply there.

Option n.2 is much better for the daily grinds, because it improves the situation even when the tank ignores the defensive CDs.

To summarize: You always remember the people that are bad at their jobs. So when you (currently) see a STR tank misusing their CDs, it's quite noticeable - so it's assumed all STR tanks are idiots. You don't notice the VIT tanks as much because the higher HP reduces the need for player skill to avoid death (but you still need to heal more - but that's easier to do than resurrecting a dead tank).

What most of you didn't notice was the slower kills due to the lack of decent tank DPS, which can still be much higher than most of you know.

In the end - this entire thread is pointless. SE is finally tying DPS to a tank's primary stat (something done already on literally every other job), so the discussion goes away.

I personally hope they don't even do a mix between STR/VIT needs, just tie all attack to VIT and be done with it. There's always only one "best build", so they might as well cut down on the math needed to get to it. Making it overly complex just adds to the 'elite' delineation between those willing to spreadsheet and those who aren't. Post 3.2, bad tanks will still be bad and will take much more damage than good tanks. They will still be obvious.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

From the healer perspective:

1. Str tanks have to use Defensive CDs properly, which is hard to do and tonz of tanks fail at it.

2. Big HP pools require no skill, it is simply there.

Option n.2 is much better for the daily grinds, because it improves the situation even when the tank ignores the defensive CDs.

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Ok so general question.... is using Defensive CD's properly that hard? I'm not referring to progression content that teams are still trying to work out the fights on.

Also, I didn't imply (or intend to imply) that all VIT tanks were bad at proper mitigation. Bads are Bads, regardless of their cover.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

While I'll be the first to agree that currently, Fending tank ≠ shitty player, this response is a little... whoa...

Can't we just all get along? All of this shit will be moot in a few weeks anyway and it'll be more clear than ever who is a good tank and who isn't.

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I wish.

Yup, and then the only thing that will matter soon is skill instead of if they are fending or slayer. Not from only the tank, but also from the healers. . . ..who already do use HoTs and barriers less and less because of need or a fear of overhealing.
I will be lucky to find a WHM just use all the hots and laugh as they stone things for over 30 seconds, who is NOT me! More HP on tanks means I and everyone else got more time as heals to slack or fight.

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

I wish.

Yup, and then the only thing that will matter soon is skill instead of if they are fending or slayer. Not from only the tank, but also from the healers. . . ..who already do use HoTs and barriers less and less because of need or a fear of overhealing.
I will be lucky to find a WHM just use all the hots and laugh as they stone things for over 30 seconds, who is NOT me! More HP on tanks means I and everyone else got more time as heals to slack or fight.

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I'm confused by this post. Are you trying to say that rocketing your overheal percentage to sky high levels is a good thing?

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Originally Posted by AlexiIvaniskavich

Ok so general question.... is using Defensive CD's properly that hard? I'm not referring to progression content that teams are still trying to work out the fights on.

Also, I didn't imply (or intend to imply) that all VIT tanks were bad at proper mitigation. Bads are Bads, regardless of their cover.

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The amout of tanks who don't use CDs... for example, tonight in duty roulette, only notced the tank pop one CD the whole run, and for that it was when the last boss was casting an AOE they weren't standing in anyway...
Or the time I said "I don't mine healing you in deliverance, but please use CD." And got yelled at, to a WAR in straight str in neverreap who did the biggest pulls possible.and stayed in deliverance, never popping a CD.

so. uh..
aside from changing VIT so that it affects tank attack power is there any other changes beside that?
like maybe it affect healing % or VIT giving more defense and magic defense?

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Originally Posted by konpachizaraki

so. uh..
aside from changing VIT so that it affects tank attack power is there any other changes beside that?
like maybe it affect healing % or VIT giving more defense and magic defense?

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They specifically said that PLD is getting buffs/adjustments, and that all 3 tanks would be getting defensive adjustments. My -guess- is that they will ever so slightly buff DRK and *ever so slightly* nerf WAR, on the defensive front. I'm betting there will be changes to DD and Reprisal, and probably to Equilibrium and Storm's Path. That's just me spitballing though.

I think the DPS ceilings of the 3 tanks relative to eachother are going to stay the same (WAR top OT, DRK top MT, PLD... somewhere. Hopefully they get a raid DPS buff or something). I don't think PLD is going to end up outstripping DRK as MT or WAR as OT in the DPS department. It just doesn't make sense. 1-handed weapons deal less damage than 2-handed ones. But I hope they get some good buffs elsewhere, they need/deserve it.

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

More HP on tanks means I and everyone else got more time as heals to slack or fight.

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no. Having 50% more hp just means the healer can do sth else for 50% more time but then will spend 50% more time healing. The overall time spent healing/doing sth else will be the same

What I don't understand is why people are claiming that more HP =/= more defense when it... pretty much is.

The objective of health points is to prevent death.

So to give an example that is easier to relate to; say you have Helmet A with 4 layers of protection and Helmet B with 8 layers.
A bullet is shot and goes through 3 layers. Helmet A is damaged and needs to be immediately repaired to survive the next bullet. Helmet B is damaged and can weather another shot before needing to be repaired. Clearly Helmet B provides more defense since it can weather 2 bullets versus Helmet A which can only prevent 1.

The idea currently is that the extra 4 layers of helmet B is unrequired since the TRADEOFF being that you couldn't carry a AK-47 with it and had to use a measly Pistol instead.

The only real thing healers and tanks need to do in raids in terms of mitigation is match the rate of damage being taken with heals. The benefits of extra HP was not preferred due to the subsequent trade offs. Benefits being insurance from auto-crits, utilization of critical heals in rotational healing(this is big) and the extra healer GCD in the first instance of damage(this is comparatively minuscule compared to the 30%ish damage gain a tank would get from STR accessories). Being able to utilize a critical heal meant less healing required (thus utilizing that extra defense beyond the first instance of damage) and thus more opportunity for healer dps!

But come the new update the soldiers will be hoisting weights and carrying both the 8 layer helmet AND a sub machine gun!

The only reason someone can be reasonably discontent with the projected change is the slight nerfing of tank damage if Vit contribution to damage is below 100%. Which I am. >:( I WANT MY AK-47 NOT A DAMN SMG.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

The only reason someone can be reasonably discontent with the projected change is the slight nerfing of tank damage if Vit contribution to damage is below 100%. Which I am. >:( I WANT MY AK-47 NOT A DAMN SMG.

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Then go play dps. :3

You are supposed to be that guy with a hand gun and shield (better than helmets in your example). So you can cover the squad behind you. If your shield gets destroyed - everybody behind you is dead. So every layer is a good layers.

We are supposed to get more mechanics and less dps checks, so it is time to use better shields. Remember there is an engineer behind you repairing the shield and the more durable it is the better for him. He wants to shoot few bullets too.

Just a simple thing like the Stoneskin etc. gets better with every point of HP. And I know that you are all gods, but there are also many players who are not as godly, which atm. makes it bloody hard to finish the healer dps rotation without the less skilled warrior ending up on the floor.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Then go play dps. :3

You are supposed to be that guy with a hand gun and shield (better than helmets in your example). So you can cover the squad behind you. If your shield gets destroyed - everybody behind you is dead. So every layer is a good layers.

We are supposed to get more mechanics and less dps checks, so it is time to use better shields. Remember there is an engineer behind you repairing the shield and the more durable it is the better for him. He wants to shoot few bullets too.

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A tank is not just a meatshield or a healer just a healbot.

Priority is in their main roles no doubt but finding balance in what is needed to achieve maximum efficiency is damn well more interesting than, "Lol I'm just here to hold this shield up. Shoot faster noobs."

I like the idea of being able to contribute a meaningful amount to the completion of a fight rather than purely just be there to prevent a wipe for other people and get carried. Feels better when I'm an actual fighter rather than a piece of armor y'know?

God forbid they reduce the DPS checks to laughable levels wherein people need only play at a low skill threshold to complete the 'hardest' set of fights. Skip-roping mechanics alone isn't exactly the most challenging thing.


dankasspersontellingmetoplayadpsthenerveofsomepeople

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

The only reason someone can be reasonably discontent with the projected change is the slight nerfing of tank damage if Vit contribution to damage is below 100%.

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Tank damage won't be nerf. At worst, it won't increase as much as you expected it to be.
In 3.2, you will replace all your gear for more powerful ones, so your damage will increase. And since you don't know what damage you were supposed to do in raids (Regarding monsters' defense vs your attack) or damage you were supposed to take (Regarding monsters' attack vs your defense), you won't even feel it.

Testing on dummy is fine and all, but, in the end, it doesn't really matter for clearing raids.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And since you don't know what damage you were supposed to do in raids (Regarding monsters' defense vs your attack)

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This one is easy. Monster defense is set at zero. You do rhe same damage regardless you're hitting bahamut or a lv1 ladybug. And we can pretty much figure out what the dps of the next ilevel tier will be by correlating the previous lvl60 upgrades (as we have 5 tiers of lv60 stuff already).

A nerf in tank damage would be spotted quite easily and quickly

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

A tank is not just a meatshield or a healer just a healbot.

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Dps checks aren't the only way to increase the difficulty.

Tank's job is mainly to mitigate damage, so the next raid could be focused on mitigation. Maybe SE could shorten defensive CDs and increase the volume of damage going towards the tank.

Imagine how much fun you could have if there would be a short window where you could turn dps stance on, but if you would do it one second too late you wiped the raid. So much hardcore efficiency out there in the mitigation oriented content.

As potentially fun as that might sound for the more defensive orientated type of people, its difficult to execute due to the fact that not everyone will have sub 100 ping, a disadvantage that needs to be accounted for in content and to an extent the battle system(can't play action mmos to a competitive degree as an Australian). Mitigation thus far is relatively proactive/passive meaning that the whole battle system for tanks needs to be overhauled in which most actions must be defensive in some form, e.g a GCD that blocks the next attack etc. Then you would only for the most part need 1 tank and you once again, don't contribute to the completion of a fight traditionally and are just sitting there waiting to be carried. I mean, you could sit there and block all day but that's not going to stop the guy from trying to skull thump you.

So far nothing really pushes you to go above and beyond other than harsh DPS checks + mechanics. Faust was a huge wake up call to everyone, a clear indication that we were not as good as we thought.

Mechanics are mostly just deterrents to dealing enough damage to the enemy before they self-destruct.

If everyone and their mother can do it at low efficiency then it's not really worthy of being called a 'hard' raid then ey?
My 5cents anyways. I don't even know where I am anymore.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

Faust was a huge wake up call to everyone, a clear indication that we were not as good as we thought.

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Good "DPS wise". I'm pretty sure some people have no problem beating the shit out of Faust and still brilliantely mess up every mechanic of T9.

Which one is the best ?

Maybe we could have both ?
Dps checks on trash with no particular mecanics but big burst, then mechanics heavy bosses that you can slug a bit more (as long as the MP allow it or soft enrages or anything) but probaly won't because the trash (or rather here, mini boss) acts as the "do you have it ?" dps check.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

What I don't understand is why people are claiming that more HP =/= more defense when it... pretty much is.

The objective of health points is to prevent death.

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That is true, but that is only half the picture.

I said this else where, but the number above the pink bar (HP) does not matter as much as how effective that bar is. That's not only in how it is lost, but also how it is recovered. Without efficiency, it just becomes a sponge for MP. Remember WAR 2.0, anyone?

Basically, larger effective HP without bigger effective heals to go with it is just a burden on the healers, no more, no less.

Trading damage output, which in all 3 tank classes helps me as a healer with my job via self recovery, for a damage/MP cushion is just not a trade-off I'm very happy about. But before I point out any discontent, I would rather wait and see what the change exactly is and what we're actually dealing with.

The one DEFINITE upside I see to this is that tanks can actually get the most benefit by actually hitting that need button when an accessory drop instead of begging their raid group to allow them to roll on STR accessories. It wasn't fun that my healer and ninja weren't happy with me "competing" with, notice not even having priority over, their secondary specs for those accessories that ARE BiS for a main job in the raid group. And it definitely wasn't fun forking 10~20mil worth of gil in crafted penta-melded accessories.

Meh damage for tanks getting that nerf. SEE would lose all common sense if you can keep insane damage with insane health. It all depends on how much dps tanks lose. All in all if it's what I think good luck all only true tanks will remain and well there's never enough while those who were having fun with the class quit to boredom. Fallen Wings pointed it out very clear. At the same time PLD will get their answers. I guess drk will only exist for show boat.

Maybe SE wants to implements busters that do 20k damage to a full buffed Tank and they cant do that if the Tanks are currently going about with 15~16k due to accesories?

They would have too. If you can manage CD properly to a fight you can defend properly. But excessive healthy pool could make you lazy and easily distracted because well no worries. Which may breed bad tanks in general instead of pushing a tank to be better. Right now you appreciate a good tanks because it's noticeable, and since it's noticeable you appreciate a good healer also. It takes both to survive. But this could also make the healer complacent due to tank having health. Honestly instead of giving high health and dps with health should of gave defense and have mobs do insane damage where dps have to repeCT the tank roll and well tanks will feel proud about being that and since FFXIV is hugely skill play it makes playing tanks worth wild and contribute every for team work.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

What I don't understand is why people are claiming that more HP =/= more defense when it... pretty much is.

The objective of health points is to prevent death.

So to give an example that is easier to relate to; say you have Helmet A with 4 layers of protection and Helmet B with 8 layers.
A bullet is shot and goes through 3 layers. Helmet A is damaged and needs to be immediately repaired to survive the next bullet. Helmet B is damaged and can weather another shot before needing to be repaired. Clearly Helmet B provides more defense since it can weather 2 bullets versus Helmet A which can only prevent 1.

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When you look over the course of some of the longer boss encounters, a tank can take upwards of 700k cumulative points of damage even after accounting for the effects of passive and active mitigation. That's a fairly large amount in comparison to the average tank's HP pool, let alone the HP variations involved in swapping between different types of accessory sets.

Regardless of how the tank's HP totals are set up, the healer is still going to have to heal through that 700k worth of damage. % damage reduction on the other hand (or defense/magic defense, if you prefer) takes a sizeable chunk out of the healing requirements. Helmet design is based around inches of kevlar, rather than miles of fluffy pillow.

There are specific scenarios where you can try to equate HP and defense (such as during periods of burst damage or tankbusters), but on the whole, you should consider and treat them separately.

Well I'm going to sound like a hypocrite or very contradicting but vit is the best thing overall. Tanks can now tank and be full vit so tanking in offensive stances should be utilized more often. Plus vit gives damage now hmmm very odd but I think that's being allowed to make the PLD class suitable again. Cheer up folks we won't hit as hard as we do now but we fall in between being decent damage and high health. But if this is SE form of balancing tanks it's going to fail and the forum will be full of crazy.

Only thing that is meh, if we do get a DMG nerf. Makes it that much harder to carry bad DPS. Full STR full VIT idc. i'll be tanking either way :)

Depending on how much of a nerf to tank DPS this is, I might be hanging up my collective tanking implements. It's infinitely more fun to deal high damage than it is to soak, but that assumes that there's no increase in damage to the tank. I've put my Warrior relic on hold precisely because I'm not sure how it's all gonna roll out.

im starting a war today....so go full VIT instead STR? or make STR only for leveling purpose?

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Originally Posted by Lialiin

im starting a war today....so go full VIT instead STR? or make STR only for leveling purpose?

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You're safe with STR until 3.2 launches. Though I'd keep VIT accessories to be a bit safe while on levelling.

Since HP regen scales off max HP, more VIT will equal more HP regenerated per tick. It will also affect the strength of StoneSkin. I'm just wondering what other impacts a larger HP pool can have beyond the obvious gain in HP.