Monk 3.0 CHAKRA UNLEASHED

Changing gears a little bit, what is everyone's opinion in the Monk Esoterics Weapon vs the Hive weaponfor Savage Alex progression purposes.

The hive has the perfect balance of stats, being high in crit and lower in det. The eso has zero det but 9 more strength (equal to about 36 det equivalent, right?) but is heavy in crit and with some SS.

I hear everyone should get weapons first for savage progression, but with only 2 physical damage increase and 9 more strength, is it worth losing the perfect combo of secondary stats on the Hive weapon?

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Originally Posted by Buckles

Changing gears a little bit, what is everyone's opinion in the Monk Esoterics Weapon vs the Hive weaponfor Savage Alex progression purposes.

The hive has the perfect balance of stats, being high in crit and lower in det. The eso has zero det but 9 more strength (equal to about 36 det equivalent, right?) but is heavy in crit and with some SS.

I hear everyone should get weapons first for savage progression, but with only 2 physical damage increase and 9 more strength, is it worth losing the perfect combo of secondary stats on the Hive weapon?

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2 weapon damage alone is worth a huge amount, but you couple that with 9 more STR and it's just flat out no contest. That difference is huge. Since we pretty fresh at 60 we haven't had time for secondaries to get to the point where we were at in 2.x. Eventually the value of secondaries will start climbing back up, but right now and always 2 WD is a big deal not even to mention the 9 STR.

So long story short, weapon weapon weapon...always weapon first.

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Originally Posted by Buckles

Changing gears a little bit, what is everyone's opinion in the Monk Esoterics Weapon vs the Hive weaponfor Savage Alex progression purposes.

The hive has the perfect balance of stats, being high in crit and lower in det. The eso has zero det but 9 more strength (equal to about 36 det equivalent, right?) but is heavy in crit and with some SS.

I hear everyone should get weapons first for savage progression, but with only 2 physical damage increase and 9 more strength, is it worth losing the perfect combo of secondary stats on the Hive weapon?

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Sadly, at the moment there isn't many higher ilvl gear pieces that is worse than lower ilvl pieces. Secondaries, as have been mentioned, gives a lot less now relative to 2.X.

Unless something gives Accuracy, and you don't need that accuracy, the main stat will make the higher ilvl gear better anyways. Even with accuracy, they can give more weighted stats than lower ilvl gear that have 0 accuracy.

Weapons don't have accuracy anymore, so it's impossible for a lower ilvl weapon to be even close to a higher ilvl one.

DET has been nerfed a lot in the expansion, while Crit got buffed, so our best guess right now is just to see them as equal.

Because Det isn't miles ahead of SS, the Esoteric weapon gives more Weighted STR than the Hive weapon, even if you don't include the weapon damage... With the weapon damage, it blows it out of the water by a long-shot.

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Originally Posted by Buckles

Changing gears a little bit, what is everyone's opinion in the Monk Esoterics Weapon vs the Hive weaponfor Savage Alex progression purposes.

The hive has the perfect balance of stats, being high in crit and lower in det. The eso has zero det but 9 more strength (equal to about 36 det equivalent, right?) but is heavy in crit and with some SS.

I hear everyone should get weapons first for savage progression, but with only 2 physical damage increase and 9 more strength, is it worth losing the perfect combo of secondary stats on the Hive weapon?

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DET got nerfed hard, 36 DET isn't even close to 9 STR. `


i200 weap is much better. Upgraded is BiS, no reason not to get it now.

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Originally Posted by Ririndo

But Im kinda wondering, since in A2 I can easly compete with BLM (Ninja, DRG, MCN and BRD AoE are nothing compared to me) and the only class that is unreachable is SMN but thats not a suprise. So yeah, have I always been with failers in the group and Monk AoE isnt that great..?

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No, monk should be pretty much beating out all the jobs on A2, aside from smn, and easily able to keep up with blm if not beat out a blm. Make sure to ride your invigorate timers and only use chakra for purification(ride that timer too). You should have no problem doing over 1100+(mileage will vary depending on how good the group is and group buffs) dps in that raid. I would only use PB+rockbreaker spam if you have a brd and is currently putting up paeon for a few tics as you'll run your tp sustain dry otherwise.

The only problem with monk vs the other jobs currently is that it doesnt offer any group offensive buffs.

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Originally Posted by Hitoseijuro

No, monk should be pretty much beating out all the jobs on A2, aside from smn, and easily able to keep up with blm if not beat out a blm. Make sure to ride your invigorate timers and only use chakra for purification(ride that timer too). You should have no problem doing over 1100+(mileage will vary depending on how good the group is and group buffs) dps in that raid. I would only use PB+rockbreaker spam if you have a brd and is currently putting up paeon for a few tics as you'll run your tp sustain dry otherwise.

The only problem with monk vs the other jobs currently is that it doesnt offer any group offensive buffs.

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Huh? Regardless of your group you should be at 1300ish, self-sustained TP. With some luck (depending on vulnerability stacks, how mobs are grouped and missed positionals) you'll go over 1400. If you do get TP song/turret 1500 isn't that hard.


I personally haven't killed it yet (lack of raiding time last week but got wave 9 multiple times) but I'm consistently sitting around 1350 on the parser after wiping (so it drops) and I'm not using STR potions. That's 4 invigorates and 2 purifications I think. No TP song from the bard since the healers need it more and it allows the SMN to have a field day.


Even if you don't use Rockbreaker once you'll be high. You do 1200 single target which gets boosted by vulnerability and Elixer field/Howling Fist are often hitting 4+ targets. Even with the little downtime here and there you should not drop to 1100.

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

http://i.imgur.com/ynysj56.png

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I think it was already asked, but what paser has this ui overlay?

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Originally Posted by Daega

I think it was already asked, but what paser has this ui overlay?

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It's ACT, but they have a different mini parse overlay. You can see some different examples below:

https://github.com/billyvg/OverlayPlugin-themes

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

It's ACT, but they have a different mini parse overlay. You can see some different examples below:

https://github.com/billyvg/OverlayPlugin-themes

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Awesome tytytyvm!

So, I think i'm doing something wrong. Using the opener from the OP of this thread and continuing with the usual rotation, weaving in all the ogcds when they come up, I get like 1060-1080 over 3:45 to 4:00 minutes. This is my gear (if it's not already updated, i've got the law hands by now). I don't have the party buff or use potions/poisons/food.

I get that the Ravana weapon would boost me abit, but I doubt it compensates for the 100+ dps that I'm missing. Any more info I could give to help me? Any tips?

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Originally Posted by Ritas

So, I think i'm doing something wrong. Using the opener from the OP of this thread and continuing with the usual rotation, weaving in all the ogcds when they come up, I get like 1060-1080 over 3:45 to 4:00 minutes. This is my gear (if it's not already updated, i've got the law hands by now). I don't have the party buff or use potions/poisons/food.

I get that the Ravana weapon would boost me abit, but I doubt it compensates for the 100+ dps that I'm missing. Any more info I could give to help me? Any tips?

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You still have a ton of unupgraded 170 pieces, that and no hive weapon easily makes a difference of 100+. Your numbers are fine.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

You still have a ton of unupgraded 170 pieces, that and no hive weapon easily makes a difference of 100+. Your numbers are fine.

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Exactly as said above, with 7 pieces that are still i170 and and the i180 weapon your DPS is fine. I think you underestimate how much of a gain these pieces are going to increase your DPS, Ritas. 17 STR and 2 WD (not even factoring in secondaries) is quite a lot.

I guess I'll focus on getting those pieces upgraded and see how the numbers develop, then. Thanks for the advice.

So a Monk told me it's a dps increase if you dump TK everytime it's up when you can transfer right back to GL 1......

It sounds really silly but I thought I'd ask.

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Originally Posted by Geaux

So a Monk told me it's a dps increase if you dump TK everytime it's up when you can transfer right back to GL 1......

It sounds really silly but I thought I'd ask.

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I believe its a small increase... IF you have pb ready to get you back up. Otherwise i think its a dps loss. Basically, you would use it in coeurl form as well. Repeating your opener. I believe someone has done the math here in the thread.

Personally i wouldnt, only because TK is a skill that you use in special situations and there are a lot of those situations throughout end game. And i prefer having pb up in case mechanics even with form shift, makes me lose gl.

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Originally Posted by monchkinz

I believe its a small increase... IF you have pb ready to get you back up. Otherwise i think its a dps loss. Basically, you would use it in coeurl form as well. Repeating your opener. I believe someone has done the math here in the thread.

Personally i wouldnt, only because TK is a skill that you use in special situations and there are a lot of those situations throughout end game. And i prefer having pb up in case mechanics even with form shift, makes me lose gl.

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i did a fully mathed out one with auto attacks and attack speed factored in on the old thread, and it was only a tiny increase at 500 potency, when we only had details from the France interview, now that we know its 330 potency its a definite loss in dps.

it is however beneficial to use it with perfect balance, assuming you dont need to save it, and then using the opener after TK

Would be great if MNK had some raid utility. Other DPS seem to do the same damage as monk but have much more utility.

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Originally Posted by Zamii

i did a fully mathed out one with auto attacks and attack speed factored in on the old thread, and it was only a tiny increase at 500 potency, when we only had details from the France interview, now that we know its 330 potency its a definite loss in dps.

it is however beneficial to use it with perfect balance, assuming you dont need to save it, and then using the opener after TK

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Oh I see, I thought it was with the 330 potency. Welp makes my point even right to just save it for right situations.

[QUOTE=dragonflie;3186809[/QUOTE]

About that.

You're correct, preys are physical, and foresight lowers the damage but for monk it's trivial. Foresight is based on defence and monk defence isn't high enough to get any decent reduction from it at all and certainly not the 40% or so you were describing.

Prey also can be parried, I can confirm this as a Warrior main. I used raw Intuition to parry 6 in a row. The bad news is that it's weird at the minute. Other times I don't parry any. After a few tests I noticed that I parried none of the first three during one prey, yet I parried the next three by turning to face the left instead of directly at my oppressor. As far as I can tell the direction you must face to parry a prey has no correlation with the oppressors themselves. Even stranger, it never crits me even when using raw Intuition and facing a direction that does not parry them.

This bears testing to be honest. There has to be something I'm missing.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Would be great if MNK had some raid utility. Other DPS seem to do the same damage as monk but have much more utility.

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I think you're underestimating the usefulness of dragon kick and mantra. You are slightly ahead of NIN but far behind DRG which is pretty blatantly bad for both NIN and MNK. Due to the current balance of the game both of these classes are trying to compete for one of the melee dps spots since the other is reserved for DRG.

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Originally Posted by Uppers

I think you're underestimating the usefulness of dragon kick and mantra. You are slightly ahead of NIN but far behind DRG which is pretty blatantly bad for both NIN and MNK. Due to the current balance of the game both of these classes are trying to compete for one of the melee dps spots since the other is reserved for DRG.

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DK is certainly powerful, but now another class has it, so it does lessen MNKs overall utility slightly. I do agree that well timed Mantras are useful. However, those two items pale in comparison to the utility that other DPS jobs bring.

You hit the nail on the head with regards to NIN/MNK/DRG. The fact that DRG has top DPS and also boosts MCH/BRD makes them a clear choice in any raid progression group.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

DK is certainly powerful, but now another class has it, so it does lessen MNKs overall utility slightly. I do agree that well timed Mantras are useful. However, those two items pale in comparison to the utility that other DPS jobs bring.

You hit the nail on the head with regards to NIN/MNK/DRG. The fact that DRG has top DPS and also boosts MCH/BRD makes them a clear choice in any raid progression group.

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Which is actually quite hilarious considering how things were back in the various Realm Reborn patches where MNKs were guaranteed a spot as DPS and DRGs were not wanted if the player wasn't good. How the tides have turned now.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Which is actually quite hilarious considering how things were back in the various Realm Reborn patches where MNKs were guaranteed a spot as DPS and DRGs were not wanted if the player wasn't good. How the tides have turned now.

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Indeed they have, even with FCoB a MNK was usually there in most progression groups due to the importance of survivalbility (which DK and Mantra both help). This patch cycle has an emphasis on DPS checks which the other two DPS jobs outclass monk in, in regards to support (TA/Goad and Crit+/Piercing+).

If they made one other job with blunt damage it would greatly help. Because currently MNK really doesn't synergize with any other job.

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Originally Posted by Uppers

I think you're underestimating the usefulness of dragon kick

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Uhm... not at all unless you're going double Monk? :D DRK is better than PLD in 3/4 turns and nothing in A2 is worth DKing. It's only useful if you're in A1 on the oppressor that the DK isn't on.


Mantra is basically useless in A1 as well other than saving MP which shouldn't be an issue to begin with because BRD/MCH can sing during downtime. It helps a little in A2 during certain phases. Useful in A3/A4. BL is possibly more useful than Mantra with a SCH in the party though... although it'll probably rarely line up with heal phases.


Still nothing compared to DRG utility with all the DPS checks flying around.

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Originally Posted by Uppers

I think you're underestimating the usefulness of dragon kick and mantra. You are slightly ahead of NIN but far behind DRG...

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Meh, I wouldn't say slightly ahead NIN, I'd say it's getting more significant by the week.

Could just be my experience, but it seems a well-played MNK can still compete with DRG, while NIN struggles to float much above 1200 dps. My NIN's best parse on faust was 1221, most other parses I've seen are usually about that at most, usually 20-30 less (which is where I'm usually at). Feels impossible to hit that magical 1250+, whie I've seen both MNK and DRG do it fairly easily. I'm still kind of new to FFXIV, so I'm not sure how scaling works, but just watching my DRG/MNK buddies when we were all ~160 to all almost ~190, it appears they both scale better.

FYI, for Faust, make sure that you're viewing the damage done on Faust only. Dragoons and Monks' aoe abilities are part of their single target rotation, as opposed to many other dps jobs. They hit the adds and inflate the results.

Not that i can freely speak on monk yet but

i'm fairly certain the strength of monk in 3.0 and forward is just going to be straight up sustainability

if we get another t8 or T11 style fight in the future, monk is going to be absolute king. Their DPS might be lower than a DRG but I'm fairly certain you can make almost 6 minute parses on a monk right now. Thats huge in a raid environment

I think that some people might be forgetting something that has not really been tested and that is monks scaling. What we are seeing right now isnt necessarily indicative of what it will be like in full 210 and beyond (granted right now is more important as its progression and not farm) I am hoping what we will see is that Monk scales harder than DRG in that our stat weights will be higher such that once a certain threshold of combined stats is hit monk will simply out scale DRG once again. If it isnt i would like to see FoF returned to its 10% glory or something along those lines.

They lowered the impact of DET on auto-attacks, unfortunately. That WAS one thing Monks had going for them.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

They lowered the impact of DET on auto-attacks, unfortunately. That WAS one thing Monks had going for them.

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True but crit got insane, so I think we'll just stack that instead

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

They lowered the impact of DET on auto-attacks, unfortunately. That WAS one thing Monks had going for them.

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This is true im looking more along theses lines:

Almost all of DRG's stat weights for secondaries is around .13 and Weapon damage is close to 10

What if a MNK's stat weights are something along the lines of .25 for crit, .20 for det and .19 for SS with a 11 for weapon damage. obviously this is just guessing.
this would mean that as gear got better and better Monk would climb the DPS ladder faster and faster, thus allowing Monk to pass DRG's once again.

****Note: I dont want to see either DRG's nor NIN's significantly below Monk, but i think they should be simply because of the offensive utility they bring to a party. im thinking in terms of less than or around 100 dps fully geared. granted MNK does bring meh defensive utility now that DRK brings int down as well.

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Originally Posted by Joeymtl

FYI, for Faust, make sure that you're viewing the damage done on Faust only. Dragoons and Monks' aoe abilities are part of their single target rotation, as opposed to many other dps jobs. They hit the adds and inflate the results.

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Yeah, it was filtered to Faust only. Usually like ~1250-1300 DRG, ~1240-1260 MNK, ~1180-1200 NIN.

1457 on A2 savage self-sustained TP-wise, SMN/MNK/BRD/DRG setup. I can't go full screen windowed so I can't see my damage during the fight so it's hard to optimize, but I'm pretty happy with that number.


And yeah stacking crit for the win. Skill speed is always going to be a bad stat due to TP restrictions if it means you can get another stat instead. Not impressed with DET either, but I'll take it over SS.

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Originally Posted by Humorless

1457 on A2 savage self-sustained TP-wise, SMN/MNK/BRD/DRG setup. I can't go full screen windowed so I can't see my damage during the fight so it's hard to optimize, but I'm pretty happy with that number.


And yeah stacking crit for the win. Skill speed is always going to be a bad stat due to TP restrictions if it means you can get another stat instead. Not impressed with DET either, but I'll take it over SS.

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Believe it or not but monk has the second highest AoE ability in the game, after Summoners. I think there have been parses with Monks at 1.6K in A2 Savage and the new BLM rotation makes AoEing not that worth it in comparison to keeping their buffs and using Fire 4.

Being able to put Rockbreaker in our rotation and having access to Purification gives us a lot more raid dps in fights like A2 Savage. That said though, I get to play Summoner in A2 Savage and they melt the monsters to nothingness.

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Originally Posted by Ossom

I think there have been parses with Monks at 1.6K in A2 Savage

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If you're being supplied with TP, sure. Otherwise pushing that number will require a pretty flawless run with the current gear, considering we've had no time to master the fight.

So right now am I suppose to focus on Critical hit rate or Determination ?

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Originally Posted by pouncing

This is true im looking more along theses lines:

Almost all of DRG's stat weights for secondaries is around .13 and Weapon damage is close to 10

What if a MNK's stat weights are something along the lines of .25 for crit, .20 for det and .19 for SS with a 11 for weapon damage. obviously this is just guessing.
this would mean that as gear got better and better Monk would climb the DPS ladder faster and faster, thus allowing Monk to pass DRG's once again.

****Note: I dont want to see either DRG's nor NIN's significantly below Monk, but i think they should be simply because of the offensive utility they bring to a party. im thinking in terms of less than or around 100 dps fully geared. granted MNK does bring meh defensive utility now that DRK brings int down as well.

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Dervy have changed the stat weights for DRG in their forum thread by a pretty big amount.

WD: 10.625
STR: 1
DET: 0.139
CRT: 0.162
SS: 0.104

That being said, the weights you're suggesting are way too much compared to that. Weapon damage is possible, though DRG had higher WD weight in 2.X, why would MNK have higher now? (honest question, cause I don't know)

Stat weight differences between DRG and MNK have never been massive before, so I don't see how some of the weights would give around 50% more weighted stats than DRG get.

Crit gotta be the best stat for MNK now though, unless the bonus Crit damage you get are nonexistent... Bootshine and enhanced IR pairs well with that. (just realized that the crit chance portion of Crit would mean less with those skills though lol)

Also, MNK having 100 more DPS than the others would never sit well with anyone else... DK does still bring a lot for many groups. The tanks in my group don't wanna play DRK, not in raids at least, and it's not like I would want to force them to do that... which means that even though NIN and DRG have more utility according to most, MNK would do very much too because of DK.

MNK should be 50 DPS ahead maybe (will ofc change with DPS constantly rising). I don't see it happening any time soon though, because DRG is miles ahead of MNK in DPS right now, and I don't think SE wants to nerf DRG. They would have to buff MNK by a lot.

MNK weights are generally higher due to hate influences.

either way i think CRT > DET because crit was "ok" before since it didnt do anything to bootshine, but not it'll make it hit harder while ding the same with IR up.

How much should a 184 monk be doing on a dummy with hive and party buff?

Which pieces you guys buying with estorics first (obv after wep)?