Normally I would agree with you. But since Airships are going to be insta travel (and later optional slow travel for those who want it) I see no reason not to adjust Ferry times to be instant or slow by choice. THE END
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I think they actually had that in XI. If you didn't use the airship or chocobo you'd fail either because you didn't get there in time or the item was "damaged" via warping or something.
If they want to create content that is based around utilizing the airship I'm fine with this. Forcing a ride/cutscene is pointless if there's nothing to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youmukon and Rukirri interview with Naoki Yoshida
Why we are getting these features implemented asap and as barebones versions later to be developedQuote:
4Gamer: What kind of game is “Final Fantasy” to you? I really wanted to make sure I asked you that.
Yoshida: That’s a tough question. (laughs) A lot of different people have worked on the Final Fantasy series and I think you’ll find as many “Final Fantasy”s as the people who made them. I think it means something different to each player out there too. For example, if you ask if somebody likes Final Fantasy, they often reply with the titles from the series they liked. And each of those answers will be different too. However, I think what everyone has in common is getting pulled into the world of Final Fantasy. Every new FF title brings a new way of looking at the world. I think that FFXIV will prove itself as part of the Final Fantasy series by the way we show people how they can enjoy their time in Eorzea.
later on in the interview:Quote:
4Gamer: Yet, it feels like FFXIV lacks some of the overall characteristics that make a game part of the Final Fantasy series. The names of spells certainly show their FF roots but we have yet to get chocobos or airships. I feel like it still needs things to make it feel like a Final Fantasy experience.
Yoshida: I think if you ask players about that, they’ll ask for Meteor, airships, things of the like. As for the chocobos, they are there but people want to be able to ride them. That gets us back to the discussion we had just a bit ago which asks, “What is the bare minimum that people expect when they begin to play this game?” I think the things people expect from an FF game have to be reflected in the game content. That’s why, in addition to the other tasks, we have to ask what’s most important to the players, which is precisely what our team is thinking about right now.
The following quote is from a more recent interview:Quote:
Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida
Bolded for emphasis. I'm confident that suggestions would be better heard if they kept this philosophy in mind. This is the current producer's design philosophy.Quote:
4Gamer: I see. One side may see it as making the game too easy but there are more who feel safe while playing because of it.
Yoshida: I think so. Down the line we’ll be releasing a PS3 version of FFXIV and that means a new generation of players including some who have never touched an MMORPG before. We’ve been working on UI improvements for the last six months but when the PS3 version is released, there are going to be a lot of things that are needed for those players as a matter of course. So even if there are current players who might object to it, I’ve always felt that we need to release whatever information we can. We want players to understand that we’ll continue to add new things, and given that, we’d like for them to make their own decisions on how to play the game, develop battle strategies, etc.
To add:
To continue:Quote:
4Gamer: It doesn’t have to just be real friends. Sometimes people meet new friends online and choose to start playing a game together. I think there are a lot of people who continue to play with other people in these smaller communities.
Yoshida: That’s the way things are going. So we think about what kind of content we can make that doesn’t require strict role division and makes it easier to form parties while at the same time, creating content that makes a player think “hey, this weekend, let’s make a plan and take on the hardest thing we can with the group we have”. There are a lot of entertainment choices out there and given the busy lives of the current generation of players, it’s only natural that people would have different ways of playing whether it’s a weekend or a weekday.
Given the type of content we want to make, you come to the conclusion that it just isn’t probable to balance the game with groups of 15 people.
Bold for emphasis.Quote:
Yoshida: So if you ask what makes FFXIV special, it’s that you can be by yourself, play in a small party, play in a big party, play any class, play differently on the weekends or weekdays, the community size, and the way parties are going that day…. It doesn’t matter because there is so much you can choose from. The job system will be added which just means you could also team up with your friends and enjoy playing as certain jobs. I think all of that is what will make FFXIV different.
Also from the Eorzeapedia interview:
Again bolded for emphasis, even though it's passed off as a joke, it's a legitimate premise of game design. If it has no use, then there's no need to implement it.Quote:
Q. At the Ebisu event back in September we saw what looked like group crafting – where a group appeared to jointly craft a cake. What can you tell us about that?
A. Yoshida-san indicated that he wants to keep developing this system, but its priority is still to be decided. He went on to joke that he needs to address how the cake would be used before addressing how the cake was made.
This is often where writers and editors butt heads. Sometimes there are whole chapters of books, whole concepts of characters, that have to be flushed away or adjusted and streamlined. This choice isn't always made for "money because it ruins things". It's often made because it doesn't fit within the overall theme of the peice or is a distraction. In some instances, while a lengthy description might seem superfluous at the time, it may be put into perspective when contrasting certain milestones of the adventure as a whole.
In game design the theme should be represented and expressed through the gameplay. Even "immersion" (which is different for everyone) revolves around gameplay. I'm okay with immersion, but not as a distraction to gameplay. This is my reasoning for why forcing a needless waiting mechanic on people that are trying to do something else is not good game design. Also keep in mind, I'm not asking for the abolishment of an airship cutscene/experience. I would love to see airship content, but they shouldn't sacrifice a player's time for aesthetics. If they are asking for a player's time, they need to offer something in return, preferably in the form of gameplay.
The only other excuse I see for using the timesink mechanic is as a tool for social engineering, a poor one at that. I could never agree with this and I believe it's at the core of the "immersionists" argument.
The following thread outlines possible content the developers could implement. It contains a risk/reward mechanic for all of the possible choices while still maintaining:
1.) An express travel option for some
2.) A relaxed experience for others
3.) And last but certainly not least, gameplay related content that fits within the story and adds to the immersion of any player who wants to experience said content.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Content-Ideas.
Please add your thoughts and I'll update the OP accordingly.
The super cake quote killed my belief that the devs have a clear vision of what players want.
They don't know what use a giant cake would have?
They couldn't dream up that 4 lvl 50 CULs making a cake for their LS that they drop before a dungeon run that everyone can take a piece of would make ranking CUL important and down right awesome? How hard is that?
Rank 50 CUL recipe "Birthday Cake!"
requires
-shit ton of mats
-4 rank 50 or higher CULs where all 4 CULs take turns on the mini game and to complete, the quality has to be above some hard to get number.
-Using Birthday Cake places it on a table. Party members can click the cake to get best food buff. Something like +hp,mp,acc,dmg,haste.
It would be the ultimate buff for full parties and be damn fun to make before raids.
Really? They can't find a purpose for it?
And here's where I get to say that you're wrong. I already have more anima than I need, because I can usually only play on the weekends and I don't just teleport everywhere. Having as much anima as I do means I can already do content quickly, and I'm far from the only one. The fact is, airships and maybe even chocobos will have almost no effect on my play.
And again, unless there are high-ranked enemies between you and your destination, teleporting to it doesn't make it any easier. Time consumption does not equal challenge. running past fifty non-aggroing marmots is not in any way a challenge. If anything, it's the reason I afk when I run places. What do you suppose that does for my immersion, eh?
You have enough anima to port wherever you damn well please, ok how does that invalidate my arguement that traveling does impose a challenge albeit a very small one.
You still need to functionally move your character in the proper direction, I digress though it's arguing semantics to the umpteenth degree. They should focus on making the trip to the camps a little more "Engaging" as it were but then people would complain that it's too hard!
We used to have agro monsters on the beaten path until people complained about it.
your never gonna give up on the long=/= hard huh? lol sad
Lemme give you an example. Ninja gaiden (the first one on xbox. man it was tough) is 8 hours long.
Ratchet and clank is about a 12-15 hour game.
By your logic Ratchet is the harder game because its long correct? Please find a way to spin this lol
Just got around to reading this derptastic thread, and by the looks of it, you seem to be under the assumption that if given the option, everyone you know would chose to skip the airship ride rather than stay on it for the entire ride.
Just a thought, if you were the only one that would want to ride it out, why should SE cater to only you? Everyone's argument against having the option to choose weather or not they want to stay on the airship for the full amount of time is "I'll be the only one that wants to ride it!!!". Why don't you all just play together and ride your airship all day long fighting sky pirates and watching the land pass beneath you over and over, and let others opt out?
There seems to be enough people that want to stick around for the ride that you could just do it together. If you are in fact in the minority, you need to face the fact that you are the minority. Square won't make much money if they only cater to the 100 or so people on the forums that dislike having options.
If people really want to skip the airship ride, let them. It is none of your business how other people play the game. If they make it compelling enough to stay for the entire ride, people won't skip it. Quit trying dictate how people play their game. You didn't buy their box, and I doubt you will be paying their subscription. Really, that goes to everyone that thinks they should remove features because they dislike them. There are plenty of things in this game I don't like, but I know that there are some people that like them, so I just deal with it. Go to Burger King if you want it your way. This is an MMO, and you aren't the only one playing it.
Lol, the same goes with the ship, if they make it compelling to stay, people will stay. Currently it is completely boring, it looks like you are slowly passing through a sea of jelly. If they made it so rare monsters could spawn on the ship, I am sure people would love to stick around, however, what is the point of sticking around for like 10 minutes just for a scenic view of the gelatin sea.
There is literally nothing to do but stand around and speak to the single NPC captain. What could you possibly argue to justify sticking around for a pointless ferry ride other than "immersion" in the sea of jelly where it looks like the island is moving towards you?
I was just saying................. All my friends are going to ride the ship, that was meant to be hypothetical. I can't deal with something that doesn't make any one bit of sense. I see that noone can shed light on this matter. Please some one, for the last time how does 1=10000000000000000000000000 taking off at the same time make sense and arriving at different times.
Your comparing two different things, two different games that require two different skill-sets.
Walking Vs Not walking are the one thing, and the lack thereoff. Walking requires much more effort than not walking, I'm not saying it's "Hard" but it does pose a challenge. I don't have to spin any logic, it's the truth walking is harder than not walking "Spin that logic"
you are crazy... you said LONGER does equal HARDER thats what YOU said. is ratchet not a longer game? then in your logic ratchet is harder. way to not answer the question and this is why this debate is over. Evading the question is spinning BTW. and you do that better then anyone i have ever seen.
no one will respond towards my comments ; ; I feel soo left out lol
I didn't answer you question because it makes 0 sense in context. Two different games that have different goals and different skill sets do not equal the difference between walking and not walking.
Actually maybe I should pose a question to you?
Whats harder?
Walking to the store.
Not walking to the store, but just "Poofing" there.
The answer is obvious, walking requires more effort on your part than just "Being" there. It's not a hard subject to grasp is it? Please feel free to try and twist my words into something they don't even mean though, go nuts.
@ JYNX
I will not answer you question unto you man up and answer mine. Which is the harder game? WHEN you answer Ninja gaiden then your LONGER= HARDER will become false as it already is then we can debate like adults.If you chose to say both are different blah blah blah then i just won't reply.
If you said Longer can SOMETIMES be harder then you have a point. But if you keep saying an insta airship ride is HARDER then a 5 min ride (which is what we were taking about at the start then you added walking for some reason) then we will have to agree to disagree because both require ZERO difficulty. One is just longer.
If your gonna string around with semantics I don't have much to say to you.
Yes Ninja Gaiden is the harder game, despite it being shorter. But if your going to string along with semantics it is technically harder to take a 5 minute airship ride than it is to insta port as well, because of the time involved. Mind you this is infentecimal but if your going to string me around with rediculous logic like this then I'll follow suit.
What the point of this train of logic your going on I don't have a clue. I don't remember flat out stating that "Length = Difficulty" I may have said it about walking versus porting...but thats the point it's in Context where I'm using it. Bringing up a random out of context situation is the most rediculous way to disprove someone I have ever seen.
You can twist someones words easilly in that situation and take them totally out of context. If your blind you might not see my arguments stem farther than just the airship, it was just the jumping off point for a much larger debate. If you think I'm talking soley about the airship...I don't even know what to say.
Great then longer does not equal harder. So moving on an insta airship does zero to the game. We should not look for duffculty in travel times we should look for it in battles. after the ogre battle i really think SE understands this.
Personally I'd rather them focus on making the trip to the ogre a little harder, loose the stupid time constraint and make it so you need to actually fight your way to the ogre. Speed runs just help promote excluding certain class combinations or people who don't have 8 rank 50's for all the required skills.
Your comparison is true, albeit superficially.
What was posted, while two different games, still provide a contrast between two games that require the same mechanics at it's base. Defeat enemies (targets) while avoiding enemy attacks (resource management) in order to progress by utilizing reactionary impulses and motor skills (almost said hand eye but I've seen a guy play Fallout: New Vegas with his face. Gives a whole new term to face rolling).
They are only different in aesthetics and theme.
Ninja Gaiden requires you to utilize your reactionary impulses significantly more efficiently than Ratchet and Clank and the outcome (end result) is more heavily dependent on the users manipulation of the controls more so than Ratchet and Clank. One utilizes timesinks and other non goal oriented content in lieu of motor skills as replacements for substance.
Choosing to wait on an airship, while choosing to skip an airship cutscene require the same amount of user input, motor skills, and logic, in terms that are considered in ways that are substantial to XIV's difficulty this is true. In other words neither option offers more substantial content than the other. One is less time constrictive while the other requires time (timesink).
So while your example is true, it doesn't apply to XIV in any substantial way. There is no resource management, progression, or risk reward scenario introduced. By no means should the leisure time be taken away.
To look at our games comparison from before for instance, different demographics prefer the laid back atmosphere of Ratchet and Clank to the jarring visuals of Ninja Gaiden. Both options should be available for users of different skillsets and pursuits but to advocate the premise that waiting on an airship is more difficult than just choosing an instant option is akin to saying that a purified 20oz. bottle of Evian would help dilute the oil in the Gulf of Mexico.
Even then that doesn't mean that the 20oz. bottle of Evian is useless. It's just not applicable to the task at hand.
I have yet to see a strong premise that's in support of removing the option for players to choose whether or not they want the airship ride to be instant or longer.
Good day.
I'm riding the ship because it's there when I run out of anima.... is that such a bad thing?
wow great post you are awesome and you think like a human. And you said everything i was trying to say. You sir are awesome.
All he does is spin and thats why i can not debate with him.
Also you are correct there is no reason to not have BOTH options.
It is a good day after your post.
You are aware that you are speaking of two totally different games correct? The option for people to play either will always be there while still being able to individually catter to the likes and needs of that games player base.
MMO's are like any game, they can't catter to everyone. Just because of the nature of the expansive content they get some leeway but in the long run they need to know where they are focusing, being willy nilly on wether you want "Casual or hardcore" (I hate the terms personally) Has killed many MMO's due to their being certain situations where you can't play off the "Win win for everyone!" card.
You can't have challenging and rewarding content without the casual players feeling left out because they don't have the time to.
A: Reach that level
B: Reach the content
C: Time to invest in the content.
You can scratch out all of these requirement by making leveling fast, content easy to get too, and quick to complete but then your snubbing out the players who want substantial content with great rewards that take effort to do. A few things like the airship can get a mulligan or two but eventually the line in the sand will need to be drawn to whom the developers are going to take care of the most.
Hardcore players who are less in number but have a higher chance of staying with a game for years.
or
Casual players who are more in number but are quick to abandon the game for the next "Flavour of the month" if you can't pander to them.
Just because WoW can do it (This is arguable as well due to the substantial drop in subscribers sense the last expansion) doesn't mean everyone gets a miracle product that flies off the shelves for no good reason. You can't try and catter to both audiences without alienating them both it's a dangerous game to play and I'd prefer they don't try to dance around that line with the pressure they are allready under.
Please stop arguing with the chromosome+1 immersion team :)
Soo are they ever fixing this big issue?
Well with the hot topic of anima coming up, it was a good time ^.^
also you can keep your anima if you agree to stop this insta airships!
COMPROMISE!
ALSO ALSO, you just helped it get bumped again, and, would you rather make me a new thread about this? Or I could just make a new thread.
What hot topic?
Plus the devs already said they were going to make the airship ride an option. You can ride it, I don't have to.
COMPROMISE!
Necropost much?
Theres a thing called give it up already...