Ranged DPS dominating Slaughter Mode

Two Paladins with 6 death's each?

There was a lot more wrong with that fight then the Mage Stacking.

Not that Cometeror doesn't need to be nerfed. But that's just horrid. I get roflstommped as a Maelstrom tank and won't net more than 3 deaths on average.

Important question: Where are the healers!?

You want to tell me then that the reason that melees dying all the time is a healing issue? Its not even possible to heal a group with 6 melees while you have two healers. As soon as the boss spawns, they are getting nuked in seconds and as soon as you have one of them healed up, two more are already near death and ready to die.

And as long as this game mode allows ppl to really nuke down other people in a second, you cant do anything as healer, no matter how good you are.

Edit: Ah, might didnt understand you correctly. :P

Just because something is "fine" (melee), doesn't make it optimal.

It's mechanics are unbalanced, pre made can only be countered by other pre made and Ps4 cannot keep up with the fps at mid on 72. I think blaming one class for exploiting slaughter broken mechanics isn't the answer. Just come play secure with me .:)

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

You want to tell me then that the reason that melees dying all the time is a healing issue? Its not even possible to heal a group with 6 melees while you have two healers. As soon as the boss spawns, they are getting nuked in seconds and as soon as you have one of them healed up, two more are already near death and ready to die.

And as long as this game mode allows ppl to really nuke down other people in a second, you cant do anything as healer, no matter how good you are.

Edit: Ah, might didnt understand you correctly. :P

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Nah I was referring to the tanks with 6 deaths. That was an especially bad match for them. I'm ALL for nerfing Cometeor stacking. (My idea was to have the first hit for full ,but grant players a debuff that makes the following hit for shaply less.)

My question was where were the healers at all in that listing. Like, I don't see a single green box. If those teams were skimp on healers, it probably explains why the death counts are so high. That, and they likely herded into one spot for the whole round.

There are so many factors that would help reduce the mass impact of Magic DPS. But Cometeor stacking is pretty much the forefront of that.

Dude it's a cropped screenshot... it isn't every single person in the match.

COMETEOR!!!!

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Dude it's a cropped screenshot... it isn't every single person in the match.

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I assumed that much. *chuckle* But if the Tank is dieing 6 times a piece, just how dead were the healers and how many of them were there?

Doesn't matter. With or without healers, the screenshots show the same thing.

If Tanks had gap closers they would die even more. Can't tell you how many times I've raised a Monk just for them to Shoulder Tackle right back into death. >.>

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Doesn't matter. With or without healers, the screenshots show the same thing.

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Actually... they'll show if the Cometeors were clustered on the healers and the Melee were too busy being crowded together, or if the Melee over extended on top of being rained death upon.

Mainly, I wish to satiate my desire for all the carnage details. But I'll take a few screens myself if I get into a match or two before FC events start.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Nah I was referring to the tanks with 6 deaths. That was an especially bad match for them. I'm ALL for nerfing Cometeor stacking. (My idea was to have the first hit for full ,but grant players a debuff that makes the following hit for shaply less.)

My question was where were the healers at all in that listing. Like, I don't see a single green box. If those teams were skimp on healers, it probably explains why the death counts are so high. That, and they likely herded into one spot for the whole round.

There are so many factors that would help reduce the mass impact of Magic DPS. But Cometeor stacking is pretty much the forefront of that.

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Ah ok.^^
We had around 2 heals in each team.^^

A really bad game, even with it as unbalanced as it was.

Anyways, let me apologize and explain.

While I concede that Ranged DPS, particular the Adrenaline of Magic DPS, needs to be patched to be brought back in performance line. My brain doesn't stop there. I don't quit because things in the game are broken. My mind goes into "Ok, so this a megaboss. How do I beat this?" mode.

I'd be experimenting on DPS if I wasn't sworn to be on Hyrist until rank 40. Still, I do what I can to mess things up on a Tank. Glad Aether isn't so one-sided right now though.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

And as long as this game mode allows ppl to really nuke down other people in a second, you cant do anything as healer, no matter how good you are.

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Agreed. I've seen players die in less than 10 seconds, starting from full health. Seriously, I counted, it took 9 seconds exactly for a ninja to kill a team mate in FLs. Why is this a thing? I'm in HUGE favor of a damage nerf across the board [50%], I've never played a game where you could kill someone so fast, it's insane.

10 seconds is kind of generous...

What exactly do you expect to happen to people when they're focused by 10+ players? Doesn't mean it requires a damage nerf lol...

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Originally Posted by Atreus

10 seconds is kind of generous...

What exactly do you expect to happen to people when they're focused by 10+ players? Doesn't mean it requires a damage nerf lol...

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That's not what I said at all ...

Even if it was just that ninja killing your teammate, 9 seconds is pretty damn generous, and I'm willing to believe the NIN threw in all his burst and won't be doing it again too soon. You honestly think that's too short and warrants a friggin 50% damage reduction?

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Even if it was just that ninja killing your teammate, 9 seconds is pretty damn generous, and I\\'m willing to believe the NIN threw in all his burst and won\\'t be doing it again too soon. You honestly think that\\'s too short and warrants a friggin 50% damage reduction?

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Yes. Even with 5 dps on my Priest I could delay or outright avoid death with Pain Suppression, Bubbles, LoS, and some well-timed CC and even with all cds down they wouldnt kill me in 9 seconds. Killing someone 1v1 in 9secs is ... broken. Have you ever played a PvP game before (not to be snide or anything, but a lot of people here haven't)?

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Originally Posted by AntiSocialPanda

I've never played a game where you could kill someone so fast, it's insane.

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Originally Posted by AntiSocialPanda

Have you ever played a PvP game before (not to be snide or anything, but a lot of people here haven't)?

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GW2?
BnS?
Wildstar?
any MOBA game?

C'mon man. Just stop.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Nah I was referring to the tanks with 6 deaths. That was an especially bad match for them.

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I wonder if that might have been because of a lack of gear. I've noticed a bunch of fresh 50s lately. A fresh 50 tank will have less hp then an 80+ Healer in non-Vit gear.

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Originally Posted by AntiSocialPanda

Agreed. I've seen players die in less than 10 seconds, starting from full health. Seriously, I counted, it took 9 seconds exactly for a ninja to kill a team mate in FLs. Why is this a thing? I'm in HUGE favor of a damage nerf across the board [50%], I've never played a game where you could kill someone so fast, it's insane.

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What's not being said: Limit break/Adrenline was involved.

Sorry but that's not 9 seconds. That's about 30 seconds of buildup for a single target Nuke that wasn't interrupted. That's the fault of the team, not the mechanics. MOBA games have characters possible to be nuked down in less than a second. 9 seconds is more than generous to respond to. It was just a bad gank.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

I wonder if that might have been because of a lack of gear. I've noticed a bunch of fresh 50s lately. A fresh 50 tank will have less hp then an 80+ Healer in non-Vit gear.

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It's possible, but mainly speculation at this point. I wasn't dieing that much fresh as a tank, but I was playing cautious then and relying on Shield Oath to make up the defensive difference. This may have not been the case.

Still, asking for a 50% damage reduction across the board would have to also be met with a 50-60% healing reduction in turn. It's already nearly impossible to lock down and kill a 3 healer setup in 8 man without a two-team focus fire or lots of sleep usage.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Snip

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Be that as it may 9 seconds is a bit much for a nuke, dont you think? I main healers/squishies is most games I play and never encountered such a quick a gank. I dont necessarily think this qualifies as a "bad gank" because what was the poor guy to do? He cant cast without being interrupted and theres so much damage being thrown at him in such a small time frame he couldnt even react to it, even if there was a way (which there pretty much wasnt).

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Originally Posted by yuixjfa

GW2?
BnS?
Wildstar?
any MOBA game?

C'mon man. Just stop.

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1v1? Seriously? If you go down in 9 seconds in LoL 1v1 even as a healer it isnt b/c of mechanics its because you're bad.

Was the ninja hidden or did it look like he had Suiton ready to go? Trick Attack bursts are quick, strong, and have little wind-up but after that they won't be repeating it. Sucks that guy was wrecked so quickly but it really sounds like he got played. What was the target then? BLM, SMN, healer?

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Was the ninja hidden or did it look like he had Suiton ready to go? Trick Attack bursts are quick, strong, and have little wind-up but after that they won't be repeating it. Sucks that guy was wrecked so quickly but it really sounds like he got played. What was the target then? BLM, SMN, healer?

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We were standing at the Adders OP and the NIN ran up in full view and began whaling on the SMN next to me. My revive was off cd and I wanted to see how fast he could kill my partner b/c of something another NIN told me in a FL. So I counted, hit, stun, dead. That fast. I've never played a NIN so I cant tell you everything he used but I know there was a stun or two and after that: game over. No lb.

Suiton will look like a water spout followed pretty much immediately with a hard burst, in case you find the situation again. Idk if that SMN saw him coming or prepared but you can mess up a NIN's mudras with CC. No Fetter Ward for them either. Garuda knockback > Tri-Disaster = crippled.

Not saying the NIN wouldn't have still won, but the SMN seemed unprepared. He gon' learn today.

I was thinking maybe for every Adrenaline rush you get hit by fills gauge by 50%. With lag and some premades and even not premades I have to check and see how many cometeors go off. I have seen 6 in a row non premades and 10 in a row premade. As a healer in slaughter you gte hit less. So wearing all pvp healer gear and not tank gear puts you a bit over 4k. Which equals 1 cometeor maybe 2. With buff and vit build I can survive 3.

Watching someone die with the lag is a little misleading. When all 72 are up top and there are attcks and heals all go off and 3 teams are in 3 whole panels I get the hunt slide. Where people don't move but just slide around.

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Originally Posted by AntiSocialPanda

1v1? Seriously? If you go down in 9 seconds in LoL 1v1 even as a healer it isnt b/c of mechanics its because you're bad.

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Same can be said for you in FFXIV.
See how this argument can go both ways?
Just stop already.

:cool: :cool:

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Originally Posted by AntiSocialPanda

We were standing at the Adders OP and the NIN ran up in full view and began whaling on the SMN next to me. My revive was off cd and I wanted to see how fast he could kill my partner b/c of something another NIN told me in a FL. So I counted, hit, stun, dead. That fast. I've never played a NIN so I cant tell you everything he used but I know there was a stun or two and after that: game over. No lb.

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Just a question, are your Squishis going in with VIT Accessories? Tankyness is a huge thing for these fights and I've noticed a profound survival difference between those that do and do not go VIT in these fights. I don't know how your partner was working but it may help if not.

Typically, as a PLD, my job is to intercept those who try to attack my healers and in the event of them being overwhemed, cover and hope they can pull of a sleep before I die ^^;

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Originally Posted by yuixjfa

Same can be said for you in FFXIV.
See how this argument can go both ways?
Just stop already.

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Not really, FFXIV has a mechanic in place that prevents casters from even defending themselves. So its not entirely your fault, and with zero peel ability you're essentially a free kill. Also, we're not talking about me, with Lustrate and Eos I have no problem surviving melee. Just stop already.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Just a question, are your Squishis going in with VIT Accessories? Tankyness is a huge thing for these fights and I've noticed a profound survival difference between those that do and do not go VIT in these fights. I don't know how your partner was working but it may help if not.

Typically, as a PLD, my job is to intercept those who try to attack my healers and in the event of them being overwhemed, cover and hope they can pull of a sleep before I die ^^;

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I seriously doubt he has any, but I'd have to ask to be sure. He's more concerned with getting kills than anything so VIT is probably second priority to him.

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Originally Posted by AntiSocialPanda

I seriously doubt he has any, but I'd have to ask to be sure. He's more concerned with getting kills than anything so VIT is probably second priority to him.

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That's probably the problem.

Black Mages have no knockback, but they have several CC abilities that keep the enemy at bay and enable them to get distance. Specificly, Two Sleeps (one instant), Two Binds (both AoE) and a Weight. They can also Flee with impunity.

Summoner have an instant Blind, a Knockback (Garuda) or a Stun (Ifrit/Titan) and two Binds (One subbed)

Both of them have methods for instant casting and guaranteed casting aside from being stunned.

So they are not without their peel tools. They're just not as easy to execute as say, having the local paladin walk up and bash a shield in a Ninja's face till they get Holmganged by the Warrior.

But that's ok, they get to sleep that pesky white mage that's healing that bloody Ninja.

Yesterday I was in 8v8v8 bracket and dragoon had more kills than everybody else and more damage than everybody else. He just died once because of melee limit. I played healer in that time and he/she was pretty well in range always so it was pretty easy keep him/her alive.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Yesterday I was in 8v8v8 bracket and dragoon had more kills than everybody else and more damage than everybody else. He just died once because of melee limit. I played healer in that time and he/she was pretty well in range always so it was pretty easy keep him/her alive.

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this is what is really cool about 24 man games, melee really gets to open up and run wild and it almost feels balanced.

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Originally Posted by Potatoes

this is what is really cool about 24 man games, melee really gets to open up and run wild and it almost feels balanced.

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By balanced you mean melee players no longer have any threat and go around interrupting the casters and killing them easily.

Notice that Sunako said the Dragoon stayed within healing range the whole time. A lot of melee players in Slaughter would have much better numbers if they did this.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

By balanced you mean melee players no longer have any threat and go around interrupting the casters and killing them easily.

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??? you don't need an alliance of black mages to kill a single melee, kill them just the same no matter how many people are around you. all that 24 man means is that they get to spread out more due to no central boss nodes with drones spread out across the middle. it's easier for them to escape as well because there's not an alliance of blms all trying to kill one marked melee.

which is why 24 man is a completely different game than 72. but that's a different thread altogether.

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Originally Posted by Potatoes

you don't need an alliance of black mages to kill a single melee, kill them just the same no matter how many people are around you.

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In small groups, melee don't have to retreat when they're being focused. There is no way ranged can burst them down with the amount of interrupts they have to deal with. So melee have little to no threat. You said yourself that you get to "run around wild".

Remember Secure? The melees swarm the casters until one of the team's casters/healers are dead. Then whoever has the last healer standing wins.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

Remember Secure? The melees swarm the casters until one of the team's casters/healers are dead. Then whoever has the last healer standing wins.

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There's really no convincing you otherwise is there? lol

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Originally Posted by Atreus

There's really no convincing you otherwise is there? lol

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I cannot tell a lie.

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