So Second Coil has been destroyed

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Originally Posted by Violyre

Off topic, but...

Your name sounds familiar...did you ever have a Castrum Meridianum run where there was a new MNK that fell behind and got lost, some jerk kept insulting said MNK for not being able to read their uncompleted map, and then stayed for a bit after with the MNK to show them a few things like using the cannons?

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While I can't remember peoples jobs, that has happened a handful of times several months ago. Haven't been in there often since.

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Originally Posted by LunarCain

So OP, You better NOT post this kind of thread and title because you are INSULTING casual gamers!!!!

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Because nerfing content to the ground is not insulting the skills of the so called "casual players".

Right.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Because nerfing content to the ground is not insulting the skills of the so called "casual players".

Right.

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Huh, I take nerfing old content as giving people a chance to try the new coil instead of being stuck in outdated battles, why would anyone take that as an insult? They even left Savage unnerfed for those who want a real challenge.

BTW servers are up.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

I hate repeating myself, but it seems I have to since not everyone is reading the entire thread.

People always "had a chance". That's why many people cleared Coil. Because they had "a chance". Everyone had "that chance".
Nerfing things this way is not a chance, it's a damned giveaway. It IS an insult to people who were still working towards clearing SCoB properly. It IS an insult to their ability to be on par with others.

It's like when you make a game easier for your kid, because poor guy, he's a kid - his brain can't manage "hard" stuff.

That's what this nerf is. Yet people are happy about it.

I don't even

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Post limit, replying here.

I also hate repeating myself, but they reason why they're doing this is so people can try final coil faster, so someone who joined recently doesn't have to spend weeks/months learning BCoB and more weeks/months learning SCoB, you're focusing on the challenge of old fights, I'm focusing on the time wasted in order to be able to do the new content.

And repeating myself a third time: the whole point of these nerfs is so people can catch up faster and do the fully unnerfed final coil, nothing to do with insulting people's ego

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Huh, I take nerfing old content as giving people a chance to try the new coil instead of being stuck in outdated battles, why would anyone take that as an insult? They even left Savage unnerfed for those who want a real challenge.

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I hate repeating myself, but it seems I have to since not everyone is reading the entire thread.

People always "had a chance". That's why many people cleared Coil. Because they had "a chance". Everyone had "that chance".
Nerfing things this way is not a chance, it's a damned giveaway. It IS an insult to people who were still working towards clearing SCoB properly. It IS an insult to their ability to be on par with others.

It's like when you make a game easier for your kid, because poor guy, he's a kid - his brain can't manage "hard" stuff.

That's what this nerf is. Yet people are happy about it.

I don't even

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Huh, I take nerfing old content as giving people a chance to try the new coil instead of being stuck in outdated battles, why would anyone take that as an insult? They even left Savage unnerfed for those who want a real challenge.

BTW servers are up.

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I've red all the replies and feel like some of these folks are overreacting. They nerfed them, not removed them. I'm only wondering why tomes didn't get a increase.

Edit: Unless NA/EU servers were the only ones to get nerf, this isn't insulting at all.

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Originally Posted by Krr

I definitely wouldn't mind this. Call it Nth Coil of Bahamut (Classic). Maybe give players a title for clearing it, and retroactively give vets with clears titles and achievements for (Classic) mode when a nerfed version comes out. Something like Playername <<Original Recipe>>.

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And of course make it level capped to IL90/110 to be a proper "Original recipe".

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Because nerfing content to the ground is not insulting the skills of the so called "casual players".

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It was nerfed the moment new cycle of gear of IL120-130 was introduced. This one is just another step on the same road.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

And of course make it level capped to IL90/110 to be a proper "Original recipe".


It was nerfed the moment new cycle of gear of IL120-130 was introduced. This one is just another step on the same road.

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Not really. Gear can't help you deal with mechanics.
Nerfs to mechanics themselves do.

I say it's not the same road at all.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Post limit, replying here.

I also hate repeating myself, but they reason why they're doing this is so people can try final coil faster, so someone who joined recently doesn't have to spend weeks/months learning BCoB and more weeks/months learning SCoB, you're focusing on the challenge of old fights, I'm focusing on the time wasted in order to be able to do the new content.

And repeating myself a third time: the whole point of these nerfs is so people can catch up faster and do the fully unnerfed final coil, nothing to do with insulting people's ego

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Replying here as well, I hope you notice this.

I don't see how nerfing T6-T8 is making people trying FCoB faster, since the only requirement for it is T9 which has not been nerfed in terms of mechanics, which is still going to be the biggest roadblock to the current content. And no, gear from T6-T8 is not relevant, since everyone is full 110+ nowadays anyway.

OP updated with what a joke T7 has become. Running T6 now and will ignore everything, lets see how that goes.

Well just ran t6 1 shot with a couple first timers in df complete pug. Blighted although not a 1 shot did about 4k dmg to me as a sch and it almost 1 shot a couple other players too so unless your healers are quick it could still result in a death especially for lesser geared players. Didn't really notice anything with honey not sure if the person marked was eaten or not. In general the echo seemed to be the only major difference and it seemed to help a bit

Wow... I did not expect this huge a nerf.

Honestly, I got mixed feelings about this Nerf.

On one hand, im glad its easier so I can teach my raid members, who just finished T5 this weekend how they go and make it overall easier for everyone to go through with it

On the other, I'm disappointed/frustrated at the slap in the face they threw at this stage. I felt like SCoB was the 2nd wake-up call starting raiders get and learn "this is hard as hell, beat it", and get that satisfaction of beating something naturally hard.Least we still got Savage, I guess :/

Just one-shot T6 in DF, everyone ignored Blight. Blight does only 3.5k-4k damage, WHM just Cure III's. It's a complete joke.

I expected a nerf, but not the severe. I wished I could do through this whole thing in its original state or slight nerf.. but what to do.

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Originally Posted by ArkAurelius

Wow... I did not expect this huge a nerf.

Honestly, I got mixed feelings about this Nerf.

On one hand, im glad its easier so I can teach my raid members, who just finished T5 this weekend how they go and make it overall easier for everyone to go through with it

On the other, I'm disappointed/frustrated at the slap in the face they threw at this stage. I felt like SCoB was the 2nd wake-up call starting raiders get and learn "this is hard as hell, beat it", and get that satisfaction of beating something naturally hard.Least we still got Savage, I guess :/

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Just one-shot T6 in DF, everyone ignored Blight. Blight does only 3.5k-4k damage, WHM just Cure III's. It's a complete joke.

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These guys get it.
Have fun with this new tier of Crystal Tower. It will become a chore in less than a week.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Just one-shot T6 in DF, everyone ignored Blight. Blight does only 3.5k-4k damage, WHM just Cure III's. It's a complete joke.

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I'm not even a person that died to Blight aside from 1-2 times from my static learning the fight. It was such a dumb, uninteresting mechanic. Good riddance.

Renauds doing 500 damage according to someone in my linkshell, what a joke.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Just one-shot T6 in DF, everyone ignored Blight. Blight does only 3.5k-4k damage, WHM just Cure III's. It's a complete joke.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

If you can ignore it, why try to learn the mechanic? Why not keep DPSing during Blighted and get a quick Cure3 if it won't instagib you?

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Called eet.

Just did Turn 7 Literally all of us ran around like spastics providing you can deal with adds because they still hit hard you can win just let the renauds smack the healers

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Originally Posted by Xensai

Just did Turn 7 Literally all of us ran around like spastics providing you can deal with adds because they still hit hard you can win just let the renauds smack the healers

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it is true. 3 of them became unfrozen and I just stood there and let them belt me and healed through until my voice went off.

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Originally Posted by SupaFly1983

it is true. 3 of them became unfrozen and I just stood there and let them belt me and healed through until my voice went off.

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I don't know whether to laugh or cry :(

T minus 5 days until raiders don't give two craps about these nerfs to second coil.

Know what I would like to see in the future? FCoB will inevitably be nerfed. Before patching in the nerf, SE should preserve the original difficulty first. This gets released as another raid. Said raid would have all the current mechanics, no echo, and ilevel sync. They seem to be getting the hang of programming ilevel sync if High Level Roulette is any indication.

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Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

T minus 5 days until raiders don't give two craps about these nerfs to second coil.

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Personally, I don't even care. I'm just laughing at how (over)nerfed things are. Just think of all the stupid things you can do with the renauds now (great for videos!).

Without these nerfs, a players biggest challenge is not clearing a turn but finding a party with the knowledge of the battle necessary to clear a turn!

Savage coil remains untouched. So if you want a challenge, you'll do these.

Should be fun... though I loved T7 as it was. Lot's of laughs one way or another... someone stones mt at 9% and it's a wipe... the tears and laughter. Good memories. As for T6... I'd prefer T5 to it... prob most annoying of all the fights. Titan ex is easier and more fun.

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Originally Posted by AiChyan

I expected a nerf, but not the severe. I wished I could do through this whole thing in its original state or slight nerf.. but what to do.

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Do Savage :)

goodluck

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Without these nerfs, a players biggest challenge is not clearing a turn but finding a party able to help clear a turn!

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Fancy that, interacting with people in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

Do Savage :)

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People who say "do savage" obviously haven't set foot in there... probably because you still haven't cleared T9. It's far from the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Fancy that, interacting with people in an MMO. People who say "do savage" obviously haven't set foot in there... probably because you still haven't cleared T9. It's far from the same thing.

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It's hard as Hell as they say although haven't tried it savage yet but since there is a change I want to try it now, I hope i find a party for it. My FC mate said its harder than fcob. My point if you want challenge there is always that and I'm guessing, when they nerf fcob in the future they will have a savage for fcob too.

Only shows you don't want casuals to have their time for scob lol

People still don't get how things work in mmo business? With the coming of new content old content always gets nerfed in order to make things easier for the new/casual players so they can catch up a bit the the rest. I see no problem with this. The same happened when they nerfed Titan HM with echo ppl came here and cried that now its too easy. Same again with loot in CT and the same with 1st Coil got echo. Stop crying and get over with it. New content = nerfed old content. So move to the new things and let the old outdated dungeons for the new players and casual players.

I personnally think the nerfs are finally tuned. There is not a single solution to please everybody. It is nice that SCoB can open to a more wide population. I clearly understand that it is frustrating to not being able to still enjoy the fights as they were, but savage is still there.

If you compare the state of SCoB as it is now compared to the first coil of bahamut post nerf for the average PF/DF, T6-8 will still be way tougher than what T1-4 was.
At that time:
T1 was already a no brainer, and the feeding mecanics were already nearly ignored by most group.
T2 was enrage method 100% of the time and paralyze was nerfed to hell.
T4 mecanics were also trivialized the dps increase and the nerf to reflected damage.

But you can still mess up with devour in T6, you can still easily wipe the raid in T7 etc... There are still way more punishing mecanics in SCoB, even if the nerf is here and real.

In the end, we need to accept heterogeneous nature of the community and stop being elitist by being less selfish and accept changes.

With a such big major and incredible nerf to scob, I for one doesn't want to see anymore complain-threads in the near future about its difficulty on this forum :mad:

On a side note, I'm not going to cry over the sad fact that the last 6 months of efforts on scob re getting wasted that quickly since, as a raiders, we re but the minority, our money/fidelity doesn't count much it seems :confused: or.... Maybe it actually do? Over the last months, serious threads on both JP and EN forums were talking about the abuse of one-shot mechanics in scob, there :rolleyes:, it's fixed now.

It's a shame that they didn't just add a story mode version of SCoB, rather than alter the normal version of the raid. With SCoB's current implementation future players cannot use SCoB as practise grounds anymore for FCoB.

What did they say again in the Vegas Live Letter about these nerfs "not making it too easy"? :P I joked back then that every time Yoshi starts a phrase with "Don't worry", you really should worry.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

With a such big major and incredible nerf to scob, I for one doesn't want to see anymore complain-threads in the near future about its difficulty on this forum :mad:

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You're still going to see them, just that they'll mostly be about T8 (if ballistic missiles, allagan field and maybe homing missiles or brainjack aren't nerfed) and T9.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Replying here as well, I hope you notice this.

I don't see how nerfing T6-T8 is making people trying FCoB faster, since the only requirement for it is T9 which has not been nerfed in terms of mechanics, which is still going to be the biggest roadblock to the current content. And no, gear from T6-T8 is not relevant, since everyone is full 110+ nowadays anyway.

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Slowly recovering posts :p

Accuracy is the main reason why SCoB gear is relevant for T9 and the first couple turns of FCoB, getting SCoB gear along with soldiery gear is what helps people to pass the new roadblock (T9) which btw now has a ilvl requirement of 105, at least for a few months until people can get more i120 pieces.

So I see it as now it's easier to gear up to meet the requirements for FCoB, specially for those who joined the game recently and aren't fully decked out in soldiery gear, and easier to go through the T9 roadblock.

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Originally Posted by Rieze_Xeero

only shows you don't want casuals to have their time for scob lol

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No, Ellatrix has no problems with "casuals" being in SCoB, he was a SCoB run seller and now this is hurting his profits, that's why he's so salty about it, nothing to do with the nerf.

Came on the forums expecting QQ over nerfs, was not disappointed, seriously the only ones complaining about it have ALREADY beaten 2nd Coil into the damn ground so why does it matter to you... oh wait, don't want them filthy scrub casuals getting nice loot too huh?

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Originally Posted by Alukah

No, Ellatrix has no problems with "casuals" being in SCoB, he was a SCoB run seller and now this is hurting his profits, that's why he's so salty about it, nothing to do with the nerf.

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So that's what it is, thanks for confirming friend =D

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

Came on the forums expecting QQ over nerfs, was not disappointed, seriously the only ones complaining about it have ALREADY beaten 2nd Coil into the damn ground so why does it matter to you... oh wait, don't want them filthy scrub casuals getting nice loot too huh?

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If what I'm hearing is true, I think I'll be a little disappointed just due to the severity of the nerfs. Won't be home for another ~4 hours though to find out myself.

At the same time I'll be glad to have another option for gearing up that isn't The Hunts Nobody Does or My 1001th Syrcus Tower Run

I havent tried T5 yet but when I decide I wanna beat it and start next set of coil Id rather wipe at the original fights and not a nerfed version of them tbh.
I feel like if you cant beat something you should learn the fight better, or get higher ilvl (and echo at 10% is fine imo)

I dont like how previous content is getting nerfed. Why do ppl need to be at the latest raids the day the patch is released? Coil 1&2 is still new to new people so no need to nerf it yet imo. Nerf them when the expansion is released instead.

You're not suppose to call out people on these forums, but some of the most vocal early posters against this nerf do in fact, sell runs, and did insult others ITT calling them names, labeling them, and making jokes of them.

You don't have to look hard to see why they are so defensive and mad. I'm telling you why. It's that big of a problem, and I think SE just fixed some of it.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

I havent tried T5 yet but when I decide I wanna beat it and start next set of coil Id rather wipe at the original fights and not a nerfed version of them tbh.
I feel like if you cant beat something you should learn the fight better, or get higher ilvl (and echo at 10% is fine imo)

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It's really important to note, unlike the First Coil of Bahamut, a lot of Turn 6-9's difficulty came from mechanics that straight up instant killed you. Meeting the actual HP/healing/damage checks wasn't necessarily easy, but those weren't the main threats - the main threats were things like having your entire party petrified because someone couldn't LoS properly, and then watching your team get one-shot one by one.

A few iLvl and a 5/10% echo would not fix that, it'd just make certain alternate strats to get things done quicker (eg burn strat Turn 6, single tanking Turn 8) more commonplace. For echo to actually make a difference, the power of the mechanics themselves had to change.