Shocked at the reduction in mage damage, quadruple mp cost, and lowered resources

Yes, from a solo aspect, I am enjoying it. Radiance is 1000 TP, but get a couple of spirit darts in there, and it's pretty easy to get. Use it to get a little more mp, and walla.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Let's get this man a PROMOTION! Hey, let's team up. What kind of strategies can we come up with while we're sitting in passive mode because we cast all of our MP out in cures in 30 seconds?

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I like how you make it sound like the MP problem is gonna be a permanent thing. As they've said before, this patch would be raw and alittle unbalanced. Balancing issues will be for later update. maybe 1.18b?

Also i'd like to add this comment right from patch notes.

Variations to auto attack motions, as well as the ability to cast spells while in passive mode will be implemented in a later patch.

Casting spells in passive mode means regening WHILE casting.

But yes ATM there needs a balance fix. Stop being pushy and acting like this games destroyed. Your argument sucks.

Why didn't they just hold the MP changes till the ability to cast in passive was added? Or make them less extreme? That doesn't even make sense.

They have good intensions, and plans. But not the most experienced group of people either... Most MMO's would of held a change like that back.

I can deal with it though. I haven't ben playing my conj for the past few months becuase was tired of it being a big newbie spamfest. I can wait alittle longer for balances...

yeah, well, that's a pretty massive thing to not think through.

Well I can see where the Development Team is coming from. They had this content that they wanted to release (i.e. instanced dungeons), but it required that spam-curing be nerfed or it (and any future content) wasn't going to be as challenging as they wanted it. So they had to go ahead with the cure-nerfing ahead of time.

I guess they could have held it back, but that would have meant holding back any new party battle content as well.

So far I think that THM are pretty fine right now, but solo-ing as a CON is ridiculously hard since a mage is required to have Slow on the enemy or else they get absolutely eaten by auto-attacks....

If making mages suck was the only way they could think of to make content challenging, then they should have asked the playerbase for more ideas before going ahead.

Let's be honest here - if they had made cures cost this much when cross-classed - I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If they had, instead of making cures drain a whole mana pool (making it un-strategic for mages to do anything but heal most of the time) put a cool down on each cure spell that forced more strategic cures, without making it so they can't afford to use almost any other spell - that would be cool, AND achieve the same goal of reducing cure spam.

Cure: 20 second cool down
Cure II: 30 second cool down
Cure III: 40 second cool down
Curaga: 50 second cool down
Curaga II: 60 second cool down

There! In five minutes I came up with a system that makes healing more strategic without forcing mages to stand around waiting for mp all the time. Wow.

I am not saying it is the be all and end all, but really, the only thing the developers could think of to make dungeons hard was to make mages suck? That's pretty weak.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

So far I think that THM are pretty fine right now, but solo-ing as a CON is ridiculously hard since a mage is required to have Slow on the enemy or else they get absolutely eaten by auto-attacks....

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This is an honest question, since I've never ranked Conjurer (their tree-hugging, bead-sucking, hippie ways don't sit well with my neo-social-conservative sensibilities).

Doesn't Protect, Shell, & Stoneskin help mitigate the normal attack damage from the enemy?

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Originally Posted by Sorel

This is an honest question, since I've never ranked Conjurer (their tree-hugging, bead-sucking, hippie ways don't sit well with my neo-social-conservative sensibilities).

Doesn't Protect, Shell, & Stoneskin help mitigate the normal attack damage from the enemy?

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Protect/Shell reduces damage by like 30-50 and Stoneskin breaks after 2 auto-attacks or 1 skill. They help but CON still gets ripped apart >.>

Speaking of which, Suz, if you can find them (unlikely) iron hide unguents and the shell equivalent, might save you some mp from casting shell and protect....

they are easy to make - come from helmet crabs (protect) and turtles (shell)

too bad the duration on shell and protect sucks so much.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

If making mages suck was the only way they could think of to make content challenging, then they should have asked the playerbase for more ideas before going ahead.

Let's be honest here - if they had made cures cost this much when cross-classed - I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If they had, instead of making cures drain a whole mana pool (making it un-strategic for mages to do anything but heal most of the time) put a cool down on each cure spell that forced more strategic cures, without making it so they can't afford to use almost any other spell - that would be cool, AND achieve the same goal of reducing cure spam.

Cure: 20 second cool down
Cure II: 30 second cool down
Cure III: 40 second cool down
Curaga: 50 second cool down
Curaga II: 60 second cool down

There! In five minutes I came up with a system that makes healing more strategic without forcing mages to stand around waiting for mp all the time. Wow.

I am not saying it is the be all and end all, but really, the only thing the developers could think of to make dungeons hard was to make mages suck? That's pretty weak.

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Ideas in general are awesome. I really and truly appreciate any post that offers constructive ideas. :D

That being said, the problem this this particular idea is that an R50 Conjurer can rotate those cooldowns so that they are still spamming cures every 5 seconds simply by alternating the spells.

But I do understand where you are coming from, sir. I just ask that you give it a week and see how things work out before you make too harsh a judgement.

yes, but then the devs could make the enemies in the dungeon be doing more damage, so that the pace of being a mage remains nice and fast and mp management would still exist (some increased mp costs would be okay but they went overboard) but instead of it being final "stand and watch your mp bar"tsy it would be gameplay that is fun.

Also five seconds is a long time when mobs be bashing you.

I dunno. I've been playing whm in XI, and personally I love the way it is now - where my reflexes and my targeting skills are being tested, not my ability to stand always having to sit around and getting uber slow exp...

First off, what mage damage are you talking about? Nukes are horrid right now, you're better off darting a mob, or switching to a DoH and throwing a stone at it then trying to damage it while on CON. Second, MP cost was ridiculously low. There was no skill in playing mage, just a spamming fest while melee zerg mobs. It is harder to main heal now, but all CON was ever good for was main healing. Until nukes get fixed there will be no versatility with CON. THM got a nerf, it needed one. You shouldn't be able to use Emulate to tank every mob in the game. Sacrifice III was epic, it needed to be nerfed. SE is forcing players to use skill while fighting, not just hitting a button over and over.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Sweet, so I can get that 30 mp back. That's like 1/5th of a cure spell!

Yes, I did all this in the R45 dungeon, bro.
You know what happened when I spiritbound? All-Seeing-Eye shat on me 20% of the time.
Siphon MP & II are on the same timer, so I guess that narrows your options.
(BTW Raise & Raise 2 are on the same timer. LOL How epic is that?)

Fortunately Rebirth is every 30 minutes, so I can use it 2x per dungeon unless I dedicate Chainspell to it (which I do) and then it's every 5.

Mage sucks. I'm so depressed over it. I recently leveled Gladiator and loved managing hate at Raptor parties, so maybe I'll play Gladiator but when the mage-lovers of the world are quitting mage because it's not fun, who the fuck is going to heal me on Gladiator?

I don't mean to nay-say really either because I practically dancing in the streets at how much I like dungeons. I think they're better than I could have ever hoped in terms of accessibility and fun, challenging content. The only downside is they ruined the 1 job I really wanted to play in there - and that's a pretty big bummer.

Fortunately I'm moving from Hawaii to Maryland so I'll have about 6wks off and maybe 1.19 will come out or some tweaks will change things, but for the next week or so I don't know what I'll be doing in game. I guess suffering through it or begging my LS to let me play Gladiator when we have too many of those already.

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This really sums up how I feel.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

The problem is that you are trying to solo. CON is not a good solo class just like whm, for the longest time, could not solo in FFXI. This works fine in a normal party setup, but if you are soloing, you will be getting TP from AA anyway...so I don't see the problem with radiance spam

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Well, Conjurer was a fantastic solo class up until now? Are you really trying to base your statement on its solubility on the past 24 hours? The Conjurer I know is great at soloing.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Yeah, I played WHM in XI for 8 years too. Let's get medals.

Thing is though, I signed up for XIV expecting freedom. I wanted to heal (and I have!) but I was pleasantly surprised how easily I could solo! I duo'd (with my wife also on CON) many many levels on the way to 50. I was amazed at the versatility and frankly surprised. If Conjurer had been this way from the start, I may have just settled into it like an old suit, but unfortunately I was allowed to actually participate in the battle! Profundity & Spirit Dart did REALLY GOOD DAMAGE! I could solo and duo NMs and farm my own materials and gear! I could never do that shit in XI on WHM.

It wasn't "easy" mode either. It wasn't as if solo Sirocco wasn't one of the hardest things I'd done in XI. It was.

Anyway, if I slap on the "White Mage" job in XIV and suddenly I'm locked into healing only and can't even equip nukes, then well that's fine. That's what a "White Mage" is and I would be okay with that, but for almost a fng year a Conjurer has been a versatile tool that I've adapted to various situations and now I'm being told that's not what I'm going to be doing anymore on the class itself.

There was really no reason to make Thuamaturge completely useless and Conjurer completely a "healer" and nothing more. The Job system was (supposedly) designed to fill the world with FF flavor as well as give each "Job" a unique edge as a party role.

I don't get why people are so defensive of something that is clearly worse.

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Maybe this sums up how I feel better.

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Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

YES, precisely! This I think it was annoys me the most! I have a few Thaumaturge friends, and we always switched on and off the role of healing. I mean, in parties, we didn't even have a designated healer. If we saw one another doing something different, whoever wasn't in the process of casting another spell, they'd heal.

The whole point of this game was to not necessarily force people in classes to fill one roll only. But that's what they're doing now and it's...It's horrible! I agree, I loved being able to farm my own things! Even in XI as a red mage, it was incredibly hard to solo. As a white mage or black mage? No way! Scholar? Not likely.
Conjurers weren't the perfect soloers. My GOD, I remember when we first got NM's we watched a 50 con solo for almost an hour that ridiculous sheep. It's not like pre-patch we could fire off spell after spell after spell, and have enough MP to cure ourselves and another party. It wasn't like that at all!

Even with 100 VIT and great gear, as a Conjurer I still took on an enormous amount of damage, using sleeps, and spiritbind to cut my AM spells in half I still had to carefully ration my MP to have enough to cure myself if I ever got in the red. Cons should be able to solo, and they were able to, but they weren't perfect. Saying a mage job shouldn't be able to solo, says who? XIV was breaking out of the box that gave roles to specific classes. I liked that I was able to play a mage and still be able to hold my own.

Now with the removal of a basic attack unless I'm in melee range, and the nerfing of Thaumaturge's potential as another healer, how is this in anyway progressive? If anything I'd go as far as to say it's regressive.

If the job of WHM removed my capabilities of casting nukes, or destroyed my nukes to the point where it's like casting Thunder as scholar with my white book equiped, I could live with that if it boosted my healing capabilities and gave me more effective and wider ranged cures in the form of Curaga.

You guys are defensive of a system that has its heart in the right place, but you're blind to the fact that it could have been implemented better, and at a later time. There were so many other things the team could have done to make this more attractive. You must be a masochist to like the system the way it is now.

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I agree.

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Originally Posted by blythe

MND is one of the few stats that actually does have a significant effect. Of course everything will be overhauled in 1.19, but until then that is something you can do.

More importantly, there are a ton of MP recovery skills that got almost no use before the patch. Sorry but you're going to have to learn to use them.

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Why would you assume Conjurer's wouldn't no about their own skills? Sounds like you are the one that just found out about them.

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

Exactly why people should have fought harder to keep the AoE/single toggle for all and any spells. I still believe the AoE/single toggle for spells was one of the best feature about spells.

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I am for the toggle. They needed to get rid of the prompt, but aoe on every ability was great. Much better than what we have now.

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

Oscillate_Wildly: do you think the mp should be back to pre 1.18? I'd think a main job CON would be happy to finally have a place in a party since pre 1.18 it was: THM>all>CON

And you even said MP has never been an issue yet, and now it is... isn't this proving the point that this change was needed? You should be focused on MP usage as a mage this seems like common sense? and Yes DD's are already bound by TP generation rates. Imaging a DD that can spam WS's w/o stopping this seems like a nice ZERO strat game that I would never touch.

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Mages do need a challenge, but your post doesn't well apply here. Conjurer is a black mage and white mage, but the black magic requires ONE QUARTER of the management as the white magic… does that seem ok to you?

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

In FFXVII, this patch will show up in the Loyalty Mode thread.

After the Squeenix-Tecmoei-namco-Bandai-Capnami merge.

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Hahahaha.. brilliant. I think your vision of the future is true! How sad.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

i like mage now, i have to take care with my MP, people need Mages to party coz now they cant autoheal, etc

if you dont like it is coz u are these guys that at begin of playing GTA before doing first mission, u already pasted codes for invencible, infinite ammo, infinite all, instant kills, etc :D

Easy mode: off

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i think we're already shown this line of thinking to be irrelevant here..

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Originally Posted by Morphemes

yeah, I'm sorry for you loss. Perhaps there is another class that is closer to your preference in play-style. I really do feel for you but you should know that if these kinds of adjustments don't happen Final Fantasy XIV will probably fail. Extreme differences in the dynamics of playstyle is what Final Fantasy is all about. With regard to this, the popularity of the Final Fantasy Online games is solely dependent on expectations. OF course the developers are always trying to bring new players into their camp, but clones of every other mmorpg on the market are not exactly in high demand which further enforces the necessity of tactile alterations.

Magic isn't easy, really impossible.

AT least your house didn't burn down...

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There is another class.. Black Mage. Where is it?? It's not on Thaumaturge.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Other than that, mages deserved the nerfs and so did Archers.

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Just because they could do incredible things doesn't mean they needed to be nerved. You should be content playing the class you enjoyed enough to pick.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

XI are 6 member parties and SMN could main heal. MP management was a big part of XI. I cured a 4 man party yesterday through the 25 Dungeon as THM and it was a challange but not impossible.

If people learn to go into passive mode after a fight.
If people stop brainlessly rushing through the dungeons.

We made it to the end boss (full west one not the close one) with 12 minutes to spare.

Now, let me repeat that: I cured the party on 32 THM, after coming back from a 6 month break, on our first attempt we made it to final boss (we wiped there).

I don't see a problem with the Mage Classes, i see a problem with people not able to adapt to the changes. Learn to Play!

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So your point is that you wasted an hour by wiping at the end and thus Thaumaturge is not broken? Hahahahah.

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Originally Posted by Chezen

Solo "tanking" a mage is not tanking, it's a combo of heals and attacks. Yes, I solo conjurer. A real tank can take dmg much better.

However, the defense was off, I'll give you that. I should have been getting hit harder.

Edit: You might also note, I did not say you should be able to do that with an NM. That was the OP. I consider NMs to be party content, so I wouldn't think you should be able to solo them easily in any class.

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Here is an instance of the word NM going in one ear and out the other. I was referring to the NMs that were my level or below, not the bosses or world NMs.

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

Oh noes, i can no longer spam cures and nukes like crazy!!
I'll actually have to think before using a spell. Damn! This game sucks. :(

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I think we've already shown your line of thinking to be poorly informed.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

Gee, use your brains, it's not that hard. Gravity, Bind, Sleep, Bio, Slow, Paralyze. Cripple the mobs and they become a joke.

Sure, the old "i just spam nukes and laugh when they hit me" method won't work anymore, but that does not mean Mages can't solo.

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We're not talking about Red Mage here.. we're talking about Conjurer, and the affinity goes down when using debuffs. Debuffs should be used anyway, but that doesn't take away from the issues at hand.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

i mean dont you think they are trying to make the game harder neptune? should you really be able to solo NM's? no.. im sorry you shouldnt.

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Yes that's right, what's wrong with making the game an actual challenge with problems you have to be resourceful enough to solve in mid battle? It was possible to solo the mid-tier NMs with great skill before and I don't think it makes sense to solo higher level NMs.

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Originally Posted by Ava

I didn't read through the thread at all, but I think I can offer some tips for you. Bare in mind I haven't done any instances so this may not apply to those.

- I find the lack of basic attack with no cooldown for casters HURTS. Really bad. I think they should adjust the CD to something like 3 or 5 seconds (whatever Archer's is). No advice here, I play THM and DoTs do sufficient damage.

- Cure costs have been raised dramatically but I found a pretty good remedy for soloing. Get Stygian Spikes and you'll never go oom between your 10min MP ability and Siphoning corpses. This obviously wouldn't work in instances, but I would assume in instances it will be possible to swap in and out of active stance to regen more.

- I don't see the issue of cures being split. It's a whole 2 AP, you shouldn't run around with everything equipped all the time, that's silly. If you're soloing, you don't need Curaga. If you're in an instance and you're a healer, you might need Curaga - replace your nuked with it. If you're in an instance and you're not a healer, just equip your basic single target heals.

- Siphon MP is no longer AOE'd but I think I answered this one above. The true strength of Stygian Spikes is really showing now. Prior to the patch all the THMs leveled CON for Shock Spikes because it was so good, now it's time for CONs to level THM for Stygian Spikes. :p



How do I feel? I feel it's too early to judge. They clearly changed things up dramatically. I went out to solo some leves and had an incredibly difficult time trying to do so. I could hardly solo 1 star leves I use to tear through on 3 stars. So that part sucked, but as I started swapping around my action bar and trying different abilities and different strategies for approaching battle, things eased up a bit. It's still REALLY hard, but I think over time it's adaptable. Just don't give up. :D

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I appreciate your thoughts. Stygian Spikes doesn't work if the enemy doesn't have MP, or has a small MP pool. So there's still an issue there. Even with all the abilities at hand, still something has been lost. Spirit Dart needs to be on a 3 second cooldown like you said, along with Nature's Fury and Elemental Shroud. Soloing for sp should be fine still but soloing tough fights is going to be needlessly complicated by the shift to party gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Pebe

Another thing I would like to bring up is, before this patch mages could straight tank mobs and just spam cures on themselves, now this is not the case. So when mage soloing we may need to get more creative. For example, gravity and repose mobs and nuke from a distance. Kite nuke style time! Not sure how well this works because alot of mobs have a ranged attack, but, the attack much less frequently with their ranged move i think. Also could do some sleep nuking! It'll be slower, but much safer and more efficient. This is for soloing obviously not pt play :P

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This is actually a very good suggestion. I will try it out.

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Originally Posted by Misha

Having tons of fun on conj/thm Finally... All I gotta say is the changes make them alot more balanced and it's not one big cure fest :P Actually have to use enmity abilities... synchronize movements with team, and conserve mp^^ Fantastic... especially compared to before :D Keep up good work dev team!

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All of what you're talking about needs to be described as White Mage, not Conjurer.

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Originally Posted by OminousAnonymous

Casting spells in passive mode means regening WHILE casting.

But yes ATM there needs a balance fix. Stop being pushy and acting like this games destroyed. Your argument sucks.

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This isn't necessarily the case. Casting a spell in passive mode could just move you into active mode the second the spell hits. We need the dev team to respond to this issue before they screw it up even further.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

If making mages suck was the only way they could think of to make content challenging, then they should have asked the playerbase for more ideas before going ahead.

Let's be honest here - if they had made cures cost this much when cross-classed - I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If they had, instead of making cures drain a whole mana pool (making it un-strategic for mages to do anything but heal most of the time) put a cool down on each cure spell that forced more strategic cures, without making it so they can't afford to use almost any other spell - that would be cool, AND achieve the same goal of reducing cure spam.

Cure: 20 second cool down
Cure II: 30 second cool down
Cure III: 40 second cool down
Curaga: 50 second cool down
Curaga II: 60 second cool down

There! In five minutes I came up with a system that makes healing more strategic without forcing mages to stand around waiting for mp all the time. Wow.

I am not saying it is the be all and end all, but really, the only thing the developers could think of to make dungeons hard was to make mages suck? That's pretty weak.

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I would favor this system over what we have. If the dev team can't get with the times, they should take a cue from Final Fantasy XIII and make MP management a thing of the past.

was mage damage reduced?

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Originally Posted by CrazyCarl

was mage damage reduced?

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Yes, because you can't use damage dealing abilities in party play since your Cures now take up 100% of your MP.

are you talking only solo?

Mages were totally nerfed, its true. There is no longer any purpose to us having offensive spells because we can't spare the MP for it. And with the 10 second timer on spirit dart, it will take mages an age to get any TP.

Can't solo NM? I haven't even seen one yet. I came back to the game just 3 days ago after having heard the news of 1.18 but now after having played it for a few hours... I can't even do a rank 10 leve (solo difficulty) without dying once or twice. I just barely get though a grouping of 3 mobs before I run out of mana. So much for being a healer. I always play healers and was having fun until tonight. Now with the reduced gil for leves an dying constantly I am not sure it is even worth doing them solo. In fact it doesn't seem like the game is soloable any more, from my perspective anyway.

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Originally Posted by Lignum

wtf do u mean 800 MP put some damn points into mind and have 2000+ mp is it that hard think people its not hard.....

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Are you a fucking retarded mofo? 2000 mp? If you put the maximum allowed you can't reach 1.300!

Answering my own question. Yes you are retarded and a mofo

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Mages were totally nerfed, its true. There is no longer any purpose to us having offensive spells because we can't spare the MP for it. And with the 10 second timer on spirit dart, it will take mages an age to get any TP.

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey

Can't solo NM? I haven't even seen one yet. I came back to the game just 3 days ago after having heard the news of 1.18 but now after having played it for a few hours... I can't even do a rank 10 leve (solo difficulty) without dying once or twice. I just barely get though a grouping of 3 mobs before I run out of mana. So much for being a healer. I always play healers and was having fun until tonight. Now with the reduced gil for leves an dying constantly I am not sure it is even worth doing them solo. In fact it doesn't seem like the game is soloable any more, from my perspective anyway.

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Yeah man it does suck; I'm sorry to hear that. I really wish the dev team would have pulled their head outta their ass long enough to realize that grouping for 1 dungeon at cap wasn't worth ruining the whole game for mages.

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Originally Posted by Noir

Are you a fucking retarded mofo? 2000 mp? If you put the maximum allowed you can't reach 1.300!

Answering my own question. Yes you are retarded and a mofo

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lol

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Originally Posted by CrazyCarl

are you talking only solo?

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The major problems about solo and party play run thus:

In party play, Conjurer has been turned into White Mage when it was described to us as a class that could cast elemental magic. People who previously thought of Thaumaturge as a good healer class are now totally helpless to heal their parties. And in either case no one can play their class like they did before this patch because now every mage, without a white mage job, has to be a main healer for no justifiable reason.

In solo play, Conjurer can no longer heal itself because MP costs were tripled so they could be a sacrifice on the altar of 8 man dungeons. This means waiting between kills for MP, or not being able to solo lower level NMs at all.

It's really horrible to heal against mobs that have AoEs and you have more than 1 melee, but otherwise it isn't too bad.

I think deep down the dev team just really hates magic.

The game started out with five disciples of War and two disciples of magic (that's totally fair).

We assumed that ancient magic is powerful. But, maybe the dev team have a different perspective on that matter. Those spells are so ancient it's really horrible and does next to nothing damage. (Maybe that's why it takes so long to cast too!)

CON is now a white mage when it should be a black mage.

On the other hand, I'm really excited to see those all Gladiator parties (just like the all BLM parties in XI where we all cast at once). Maybe if you guys all auto attack at once you'll kill the enemy before the party wipes =)

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

It's really horrible to heal against mobs that have AoEs and you have more than 1 melee, but otherwise it isn't too bad.

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Which is like all the time! Especially in guildleves! 1-50 here we go!!

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Which is like all the time! Especially in guildleves! 1-50 here we go!!

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Meh, I was group grinding today and we only had one melee + 2 THM and a CON. He wouldn't die and we didn't have to stop for MP to regen too often, but then we got a MRD with us and did leves and AoE started taking a huge toll on our MP xD

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Originally Posted by Cantaffordheals

I think deep down the dev team just really hates magic.

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I had said that about Tanaka personally, because look how long it took XI to actually make Mage Gear that actually was useful for what Mages did (in XI). Christ it took until the end of CoP practically and I dare say more like Limbus (end of CoP) & Aht Urghan before real mage gear actually started surfacing.

Noble Tunic & Dalmatica were nice body pieces. 1 out of 5 AF pieces was nice, too (haha 1/5) for most mages. It's like they have no idea what a mage needs, what a mage wants, whatever keeps me in your game, and I'm thanking you for giving it to me*

*after 4 years of waiting and watching melee get all kinds of great shit from Kirin - we got Kirin Staff >.>

Anyway since most of that team is on XIV now, I'm extending this theory to the team and not to the Tanaka himself.

Everyone's response to the conjurer changes: Get more Conjurers. K

Its not only Cures that extremely high now but:

Emulate effect duration lowered from 60 to 30 seconds.
Siphon TP amount reduced.
Drain cost raised from 45 to 90 MP.
Siphon MP Affects only a single target.

So now on mages have to use much more abilities and more macros. There are some abilities that were useless till 1.18 release. Stygian Spikes, Aegis Bloom will be good for MP and HP restoration. Also you can Blind and reduce ACC and Roaming Soul will not only be used once in awhile.

Mages have now to use more about abilities and im sure more people will try to understand more the stats of each spell like Aegis HP recover or if Drain worths the MP and all that kinda things. People need to think more and not just execute.

Yeah Emulate was overdue in my opinon, but I said earlier... in some thread...

1 or 2 moderate changes would have been fine.
4 or 5 relatively extreme changes brutally kill the previous effectiveness in long battles.

Spirit Dart recast, No AOE Toggle, more redundant AOE spells, no THM healer, no Siphon MP

What some people herald as more strategic I see as more dumbed down and watered down than ever.

I'm beating a dead horse with that, though.
If I have to explain 1 more time how many things I did in end-game strategies compared to the 2 things I do now (heal & manage MP, which mostly means doing nothing) my rationale brain functions may explode violently.

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Originally Posted by Shai

I see as more dumbed down and watered down than ever.

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Watching your MP and deciding who to prioritize for heals = dumbed down from what exactly? Spamming Cure and Sac with AoE on?

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Watching your MP and deciding who to prioritize for heals = dumbed down from what exactly? Spamming Cure and Sac with AoE on?

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Yep. This. Exactly this. This is how you play mage pre-1.18.

This is how mage should always be played.

The main concern I have for this "foundation" patch until they hopefully fix it is the hate generation- does no-one else find this to be broken?

I played CON yesterday in our usual trio trying out leves to see how the new SP gains were going to work and for the first time in a long time I died.... Now in FFXI I played WHM and RDM so managing hate and casting cure when needed rather than spamming is not alien to me.
Doing a leve last night I waited for our tank to run in, engage the mob and gain a good amount of hate. His HP went down to ~a third so I cast Cure II.... the mob loses interest in the tank completely after this one Cure II and I get hit. This wasn't a one-off occurrence either.

In a different area a friend changed to CON and I was PUG tanking. He had exactly the same problem- I had run in, engaged the mob, provoked and laid down a ton of hate tools but as soon as he cast Cure II on me it lost interest. Now if we are both doing something fundamentally wrong (and without the flaming please) I would like to know how people have dealt with this. Using Soughspeak seemed to help a little, although as soon as the effect wore off (it only lasts 30seconds) then there was the same problem again- mob turns immediately to the healer.

I would like to know other people's thoughts and suggestions ^^

People are going to tell you to find better tanks.

No matter what you do or say or how much you trust your tank.
It's his fault.

They system could never be faulty. Square-Enix has such an outstanding reputation for perfect game balance, customer service and quality of work that to suggest otherwise would be supremely unwise, or at least historically inaccurate.

But, yes, I did notice all the best tanks I've ever played with in XI and XIV suddenly were terrible tanks overnight as if someone put "forget all you ever learned about XI and XIV" in their morning tea.

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Originally Posted by Shai

But, yes, I did notice all the best tanks I've ever played with in XI and XIV suddenly were terrible tanks overnight as if someone put "forget all you ever learned about XI and XIV" in their morning tea.

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>< Well it gives me some comfort to find that I'm not the only one that has noticed this. Ah well... it's going to be interesting until they hopefully put a fix into their hate algorithm.

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Originally Posted by Shai

They system could never be faulty. Square-Enix has such an outstanding reputation for perfect game balance, customer service and quality of work that to suggest otherwise would be supremely unwise, or at least historically inaccurate.

But, yes, I did notice all the best tanks I've ever played with in XI and XIV suddenly were terrible tanks overnight as if someone put "forget all you ever learned about XI and XIV" in their morning tea.

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Yeah, got to love the people that think the only people who should be playing this game are people who think the developers are infallible.

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Originally Posted by DarkArchon

Mages have now to use more about abilities and im sure more people will try to understand more the stats of each spell like Aegis HP recover or if Drain worths the MP and all that kinda things. People need to think more and not just execute.

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Drain only drains HP? Am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Watching your MP and deciding who to prioritize for heals = dumbed down from what exactly? Spamming Cure and Sac with AoE on?

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Zombie healers aside, many of us enjoyed playing more than doing just healing. People like to criticize others for being incompetent but we were very competent mages, far more useful in a fight than just healing.

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Originally Posted by Shika

>< Well it gives me some comfort to find that I'm not the only one that has noticed this. Ah well... it's going to be interesting until they hopefully put a fix into their hate algorithm.

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From what I understand there is no algorithm any longer. It's simply a cumulative hate system. So I don't know if damage and curing are a 1:1 ratio of hate, but maybe he would have to do more damage then you are curing him for.

I read up to about page 24. I think a LOT of people are missing the point here.

The OP isn't asking for afk 'easy mode' healing, he's saying that for anyone who didn't want to be stuck at the back, reserving MP for heals only, are now stuck at the back, reserving their MP for heals only.

I played FFXI, my main was a WHM and to be honest, it was dull, so dull infact that i changed my main to PUP, way more fun! As WHM, more often than not, you end up eating cookies and resting while everyone else gets to play the game.

That's where i thought XIV had it right, a mage that could do quests on their OWN without fear of dying after one hit; a mage capable of benefiting a party with more than just heals. I totally agree that DoM needed tweaking but typecasting them into specific roles was/is not the answer.

I liked the prospect that this game was going to be different, classes could be played to the players specification. Why should a person who wants to nuke be forced into playing a healer? Would a PGL be happy playing the role of a healer while all their fun attacks get left behind to reserve their mp for heals; spending half there time inactive to regain MP needed for said heals? (Imagine that TP didn't exist and all skills used MP, that way you might sympathise a little more).

I know that there is still much to be done in regards to the battle system (and the game in general) but i think that a lot of you should try and see this from both sides of the coin.

Just because mage's have always been squishy and acted as healers in the past, why should that stereotype stay the same when it's boring? I think that MMO's are all falling into the same trap where you must have the standard set-up of at least 1 tank (who isn't MP based); a squishy mage to heal, but not for anything else (except maybe the odd buff/ debuff when MP allows); and then a couple of DD's in order to succeed in doing anything. Who says tanks need to be melee based? Why can't they be magic based? Why can't healers throw a nuke or two or three or four? I think it's terrible when you can't play a game because you can't find a tank or healer to party with.

Eventually we're gonna have to pay to play this game, and time spent seeking parties is money being thrown away, doing nothing. That is definitely one thing i won't miss from XI.

Apologies for the wall of text.

That makes no sense though. Conjurer IS the healer and nuke class. Either you heal or nuke. Whats the issue? If you play with friends/linkshell, they will let you go as nuke Conjurer. I know mine does. You can even throw a few heals in an emergency if you want. If you are a HEALER in an MMO though, you only need to be healing, and removing debuffs from players.

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Originally Posted by Raim

That makes no sense though. Conjurer IS the healer and nuke class. Either you heal or nuke. Whats the issue? If you play with friends/linkshell, they will let you go as nuke Conjurer. I know mine does. You can even throw a few heals in an emergency if you want. If you are a HEALER in an MMO though, you only need to be healing, and removing debuffs from players.

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The issue is that because of these changes, even on the JP forms players have developed a "what are you doing wasting MP on elemental spells? heal me you dumbdumb" mentality. If you for example are you starting off in the game and don't have your "friends/linkshell" do you really think people are going to let you play offensively with a Conjurer now?

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When I first saw this game and was wondering what class I was going to be, I saw Conjurer as the master of elements and that's why I got into this game. This patch has demoted them to master of heals, and if things don't change I'm going to be very disappointed with this game