One to Fifty, One Zone - Long OP

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Originally Posted by Meph

Bitte ^^

This needs to be adressed in every forum, so maybe anyone can raise such a topic on the french forum if it isnt already?
(I would but i cant speak french :P)

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When you said the German forums were dead I went and checked the French forums and lets just say that if the German forums are dead the French forums have decomposed and are stinking up the place, its like a ghost town over there :P but we may still be able to get some response anyway.

Reaching up to 30 pages of universal agreement, and no Dev acknowledgment? Well, lets keep it going and keep it rated up!
(The Jp and NA players have had the same complaints since alpha, and the message boards for both regions clearly reflect that if you can get a decent translate, so with both sides throwing more kindling on the fire under SE, they're bound to listen some time)

The changes we want are going to come slow, and grueling if we ever get them at all, and it has the possibility to create an actual sense of adventure. Keep the good stuff flowing! :-)

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Originally Posted by Richard

This is not 100% accurate but it's close. When one of our fluent JP speakers is on tomorrow afternoon I'll be sure to get up the complete translation.

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I'm not Japanese, but I'd like to think I can read and speak it well enough. (I better if I want to keep living here :eek:).

Anywho

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プロデューサ/ディレクタの吉田です。

皆さん、MAPについての問題提起ありがとうございます。
皆さん同様に吉田もMAPの仕様について、強く危機意識があり、
莫大な作業量ではありますが、しっかり再設計に向けた計画を進めています。
ただし、既にご指摘いただいている通り、根本からの修正のためには、
お時間を頂いてしまうことになります。

そのため、現MAPのコリジョン緩和（段差/引っ掛かりの緩和）は地道に続け、
根本改修も長期的に計画という並行策で進めています。

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From Producer/Director Yoshida

Thank you for all of your concerns regarding maps. Like you, the players, Yoshida is also very concerned about the layout of the maps, and although we have a great deal of work to do, we are working on plans to substantially redesign the maps. However, as previously mentioned because we have to work on fundamental changes first, it is going to take time.

Therefore, we are going to continue working on problems with map collision (not sure how to define whats in parenthesis), and continue with our plans to fix the foundation at the same time over the long term.

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Any other takers here? :)

Should a true adventure with all of the wonderful people I've met here and in game await us in Eorzea, then I have no qualms with waiting.

But we need to know where they plan to take us from here. What do they plan to do? Are they already doing it? What is 'it'?

I feel that it's important they share with us their plans. Eorzea is desperately trying to hold onto her adventurers, but I worry that if the wrong decisions are made, if hubs are the solution or the widening of corridors, she'll lose her grip. Our feedback at this point in time is vital.

It's beyond reassuring that both sides of our oceans want the same for our game world. And to come here and post and receive such feedback from every one truly tells me that I was right to try for answers.

For new visitors, I encourage you to leave your thoughts here.

I'm not sure I can thank every one enough for the overwhelming support. :)

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From Producer/Director Yoshida

Thank you for all of your concerns regarding maps. Like you, the players, Yoshida is also very concerned about the layout of the maps, and although we have a great deal of work to do, we are working on plans to substantially redesign the maps. However, as previously mentioned because we have to work on fundamental changes first, it is going to take time.

Therefore, we are going to continue working on problems with map collision (not sure how to define whats in parenthesis), and continue with our plans to fix the foundation at the same time over the long term.

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Beautiful! Thank you so much Spellbinder. THIS HAS LOTS OF PROMISE!

I agree, Richard! And I hope this thread will bring us clarity as to what that post actually means.

Because though it's hopeful, it could mean anything. We deserve to know where we'll be standing in a year. Whether it's Thanalan, a new Thanalan, or a new world.

I will keep waiting and hoping! Hoping for a response which we've all earned. :)

(Edit: Thanks for your enthusiasm, translators.)

All I can say is that the maps design and the texture variety is way below my expectations.

Therefore I support this thread!

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Originally Posted by Siobu

Wow, guys. I'm overwhelmed by every one's support, truly! Thanks so much, without all of you, this thread never would have gotten the attention of the community. Each post counts and might lead to being heard by the reps.

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I feel like you pointed out exactly what this game is lacking in basics ( - of course it's lacking a lot, but this is the foundation to build on that we need).. what keeps it from feeling like a Final Fantasy game. You put into words what many of us were trying to figure out how to say. Thank YOU.

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Originally Posted by Nabiri

I feel like you pointed out exactly what this game is lacking in basics ( - of course it's lacking a lot, but this is the foundation to build on that we need).. what keeps it from feeling like a Final Fantasy game. You put into words what many of us were trying to figure out how to say. Thank YOU.

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Well said, Nabiri!

Thank you for helping us to finally recognize and form into words what has quietly nagged at us in the backs of our minds ... what felt so lacking about Eorzea ... and what needs to change to make this feel like an adventure in a Final Fantasy world.

I'll start the thread on the french forums before noon today.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Yes, Aion really is a beautiful game. It's a little glimmery because of the celestial theme, but I personally love it. I had originally believed Eorzea would be just as beautiful, just more realistic.

But realism doesn't mean sacrificing variety.

The regions of Eorzea are often termed 'frontiers'. America was once a great frontier. And the land is a great mixture of plains, fields, mountains, deserts, canyons, rivers, lakes, shores, snow, rain, tornadoes...

The frontiers of Eorzea have no variety within the three major starting regions.

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Yeah I have thought of this too; that the zones were meant to be realistic. They don't look fantastical at all. Maybe that plays into the lore; I don't know. They do seem like frontiers. However, they would be better frontiers if they didn't copy/paste. I don't really have anything against the frontier look, but I hope they expand to more interesting looking zones in the future.

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Originally Posted by Siobu

If I may continue to use a reference:

What if we never had to leave the city walls in 11?

What if this was all we knew?

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

I wholeheartedly support multiple areas with similar range, similar stages of progression. But right now, we have none. No progression. Adventure.

What's the right thing to do in this situation?

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Oh God, that link really hit a chord with me. I'm going to post it 10 times ..please people click this.

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

http://seahorror.com/sample.jpg

HOLY MOTHER OF THE TWELVE! You really hit the nail on the head. You see all the bottlenecks when you copy/paste the 11 zones on to each other? That must have been what they did, because Thanalan and the Shroud look the exact same, with bottlenecks in between regions. That literally is all they did, design 1 or 2 areas and then mass copy/paste it.

Now look at Thanalan, lol:

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/images/maps...s-thanalan.jpg

The Black Shroud:

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/images/maps...ack-shroud.jpg

Coerthas:

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/images/maps...s-coerthas.jpg

:(..............................................*

Slightly concerning that they don't see this as a fundamental flaw, but at least they acknowledge that its a big issue.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Slightly concerning that they don't see this as a fundamental flaw, but at least they acknowledge that its a big issue.

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i think this is one of the most important things if they wanna turn the game around. Like many testers also stated,
fixes, updates, expansions won't really help the game because the core lacks a good feeling/fun feeling/immersion.

If they don't change this, and fast (so they can work on other stuff), im pretty sure it is a waste of money what they are doin right now.... sadly

http://seahorror.com/thoughts.jpg

whoever posted the link above thank you... this truely would help our feeling of adventure

French thread done.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...415#post174415

Need 25 "likes" for it to become a "hot topic" (French forums aren't very active ...).

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Originally Posted by Calevr

This is my favorite thread yet! Yoshida please respond to this!

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I have to agree. I'm honestly VERY surprised at how well this thread turned out. Keep it up guys, hopefully the devs catch word of this soon because as I said before it's one of if not the biggest issue with this game.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

French thread done.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...415#post174415

Need 25 "likes" for it to become a "hot topic" (French forums aren't very active ...).

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*liked* .

lol thanks chin :3

Liked it, hope it catches on.

Over 150 likes to the OP. Over 300 replies in three days. No official acknowledgment.

SE, I believe this thread makes it painfully obvious what the dev team's priority needs to be if they want this game to succeed as much as they claim to.

Liked as well for the French version. Hopefully we can get more to make it a hot topic over there as well.

Hope to hear soon from the Devs as well on the English Forums on this subject and compare

First thread I really felt like posting in, this is something that -really- needs to be addressed. Personally, I believe the intention was the often stated 'freedom' of play they originally wanted to achieve and while I appreciate the redundancy present in that at any point in the game you have the option of going to 1 of 3 different zones to level...Really? 1 of the same 3 for the entirety of the game? These 3 that barely change regardless of whether you're right outside the city-state or on the other side of the map; if you're at the level 40 camp or the level 20? What little variation exists within the sub-zones falls rather flat in my view since theres no significant lore or locations associated with them to give them their own atmosphere and feel.

It boggles the mind to have the game setup like this, no real sense of progression, of going to more dangerous and exotic lands - just all the same.

I "liked" the french version as well to get it going and replied to it as well since I speak french. Just made some specifications to reflect what has been said here to say that it's not that we can go from 1 to 50 in the same region (Black Shroud, Thanalan, La Noscea) that is the big issue but that the feel of progression is non existant.

That this could be solved by making each sub-zones of the big regions different but still using the same eco-system theme like the drawing of the OP express http://seahorror.com/thoughts.jpg. So that each sub-zone would have it's own flavor and monster types and you would feel a progression by advancing to the next sub-zone.

Would be like combining Saruta, Taronhgi, Giddeus, Buburimu and the dungeons like the maze of shakrami and the towers un Saruta to be under a "seemless" region formed by all these different sub-zones with their own flavor but all with the same type of eco-system in the background.

No matter that all 3 starting area offer the same progressions and that we can go from 1-50 in either of these regions, it wouldn't feel boring if it was like that with different sub-zones. They could still reduce the starting regions to be from 1-35 and then Coertas and Mor Dhana to be 30-50.

[TL;DR] Anyways that's my input on it, I know it has been mentioned by others and I said pretty much the same thing in a earlier reply but I just want to stress the fact that it's not the fact that it's 1-50 in the same region (zone) but the fact that it's the same exact copy-pasted environment everywhere you go in the region. Making each sub-zone different but still under the same theme and distributing monsters accordingly would be the way to go.

1-96* in the same zone is part of the issue, as well as the identical areas all around the zone.
We have no reason to leave the starting areas, no sense of progression, no exploration, no adventure.

This IS the biggest fail of ffxiv by a long shot, 1-50 zones. You shouldn't be able to run everywhere at any level and not care. If you are a low level you should get annihilated by scary monsters for being in a higher level zone. This should be the natural order of things

Everything is been said, i think. Totally agree with the OP and the majority of the posts here as well.
/like

Pretty much agree with what most people are saying, it might actually be one of the big reason new players might be turned off, the over sized, lifeless and repetitive zones. Heck even the layout to me feels poorly thought out. FFXI did it great, everyone was a decent ways away from each other and from the major hub city and high end zones. Here its a jumbled mess making 1 city a hub because of its placement.

Will it change...for the most part no. Even if 90% of the people said it sucks, they dont have the time or clearly the manpower to change it. Would be great though, every time i play in this world it makes me miss how well FFXI was made.

Yah i wouldnt expect any response from SE.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

Pretty much agree with what most people are saying, it might actually be one of the big reason new players might be turned off, the over sized, lifeless and repetitive zones. Heck even the layout to me feels poorly thought out. FFXI did it great, everyone was a decent ways away from each other and from the major hub city and high end zones. Here its a jumbled mess making 1 city a hub because of its placement.

Will it change...for the most part no. Even if 90% of the people said it sucks, they dont have the time or clearly the manpower to change it. Would be great though, every time i play in this world it makes me miss how well FFXI was made.

Yah i wouldnt expect any response from SE.

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If you read 2 pages back you'd see a direct quote from Yoshida, through the JP forums, saying they have substantial redesigns planned for the regions. I wouldn't be so pessimistic.

Great post Op. Agree with you so much I'm about to buy ffxi collectors edition. I'd rather grind my way back up through the dunes, quifim, the jungle, the desert, the nests and god knows where else in fov for the next year, as it'll take that long before the Dev team comment on this thread.

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Originally Posted by kurokawa

Great post Op. Agree with you so much I'm about to buy ffxi collectors edition. I'd rather grind my way back up through the dunes, quifim, the jungle, the desert, the nests and god knows where else in fov for the next year, as it'll take that long before the Dev team comment on this thread.

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Well I was almost tempted to return to FFXI after 5 years of absence but from what I read it changed a lot and you can basically level up from 30-90 in the same zone which is sad really... I don't know where they got the idea to do that...

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Originally Posted by Richard

If you read 2 pages back you'd see a direct quote from Yoshida, through the JP forums, saying they have radical redesigns planned for the regions. I wouldn't be so pessimistic.

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Radical might be a strong word ^^; but they definitely intend to do work on the maps.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

Radical might be a strong word ^^; but they definitely intend to do work on the maps.

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I'll switch radically to substantially :P

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Originally Posted by Chinook

French thread done.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...415#post174415

Need 25 "likes" for it to become a "hot topic" (French forums aren't very active ...).

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Was SO the 25th's 'like' on that :D

If the immense zones were truly meant to give the player a sense of adventure, they fell short on their goal. In reality, Thanalan is nearly as tunneled and restricted as the Black Shroud. All the repeated cliffs/stones/ledges tunnel the player into taking the same route every time because you can't fall or jump down a ledge half the time. I don't understand how my taru can fall down a ledge like, 10 feet high, and be stuck on a ledge less than two. That's one thing I hope goes :<

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Originally Posted by Richard

If you read 2 pages back you'd see a direct quote from Yoshida, through the JP forums, saying they have substantial redesigns planned for the regions. I wouldn't be so pessimistic.

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sorry, after a dozen pages (and i read the most recent one) i stopped, this suckers 31+ pages now and its overwheleming how many people seem to actually agree on something. Normally anything even slightly negative on these boards brings out the super fans who defend every decision up and down and sling mud at you.

If there seems to be anything almost everyone, even some fanboys agree need to be fixed...its this. Im happy people are actually trying to get something out there, even though it might not happen for some time (re-doing a world is no small task)

hopefully they understand so many people are not happy with it and they make it a bigger priority.

Thanks, everyone!! And thank you, Nabiri, Rowyne. I'm glad I was able to help by creating this thread! And I'm glad that my pictures helped clearly illustrate my points. Thanks for keeping this thread going to 32 pages. I know it's hard, since we're all in agreement and there's no debate! And thanks for the French thread.

So many views, so many posts. This surely is not your average thread. We have to have been noticed. But have we been heard? Acknowledged? We need to know where they are taking us.

We deserve a true adventure. From one to fifty, in one world.

Regions, goals, milestones, level ranges, progression, pride, accomplishments, journeys, experiences...

We should not have to look beyond Eorzea for an adventure. We want one right here.

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Originally Posted by Siobu

Thanks, every one!! And thank you, Nabiri, Rowyne. I'm glad I was able to help by creating this thread! And I'm glad that my pictures helped clearly illustrate my points.

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Yeah, that diagram was very helpful. It's nice to have a visual sometimes, even if the issue at hand (like the problems with the world design) is already pretty obvious.

I'm glad! Thank you.

If I may express another thought, I'd like to say that I feel that dungeons, as in FF11 (Or WoW, or..) should be able to feel as if it were a milestone, as well.

No future dungeons should feel like you were entering a different corner of the zone. The zone you were just leaving. They, I believe, also need their own, unique personality - a dungeon different than all the ones you've visited before it.

You should never feel like you've been there before upon your first visit.

And sometimes, the dungeons branched from the cities themselves. Sometimes, they were more deadly than the zones they branched from.

Our world needs diversity. As someone had said before, we should not only have to peak around the corner, we should look forward to it.

Any thoughts welcomed.

I've been keeping up with this thread, just lurking in the background, since it only had a few replies, and I've read every single one of them since then. I don't really have anything to add that hasn't been said already, but thank you to Siobu and everyone else who has contributed so much already. This is probably, by far, my biggest concern with the game.

Keep up the great work! :cool:

@Siobu

Just suggestion but on your first post you should edit it and add the images you made so everyone can see/find it easier. I can just click your name and look at your previous posts to find it but doubt some in here knows how to do that if it's their first time reading this thread.

Good thread BTW :)