fflogs and privacy

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

The stalker thing is downright malicious, yes. But the people failing to realize FFLogs potential to be malicious as well are simply naive. In a perfect world it's a near perfect tool. We're not in a perfect world, people don't always use information they have with the best of intentions. I agree it has its uses, but I also also see the flipside.

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Malicious how? FFlogs has been around for a long time, but apart from the harassment that can happen also without it (let's say because a person is wiping the party repeatedly), I don't get where you are going with it and how that information could be used maliciously. Clue me in please.

A player who will harass you over your gameplay will harass you over your gameplay regardless of whether fflogs even existed or not.
You're complaining about a tool rather than the problem, which is players who harass other players over their gameplay - and the solution exists, it's called the report feature.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I'm assuming you meant "is private information for my party"

In which case, it isn't. That information is public to your party to do whatever they wish with. Someone decided to upload it to FFlogs and make it public for everyone. As you don't own the data nor is it directly tied to your personal life, there's no privacy concerns at play. That doesn't mean you can't be critical of FFlogs or outright dislike the website, but it does mean it isn't related to the stalker plugin whatsoever.

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The main issue with this is you're only reasoning in terms of laws within a legal framework, which will also vary greatly per country: some may have more privacy protection laws than others.
Most of what happens in game is framed within the TOS, and then on what is commonly accepted or not, which the OP was mostly about.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Did they not do exactly that with certain modes of pvp...?
"Most people" to be exact care about as fast and efficient runs as possible, if telling someone off will get them to that, they'll do it, pretending this doesn't happen or hasn't happened is just silly.

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Yes, and not only was it universally hated, it didn't actually work. People just spammed "Good Game" endlessly, to the point they had to ban that. Now they spam "Hello?" Which goes back to my point, banning perfectly functioning systems or tools doesn't fix the problem. It just makes things worse for everyone else who was using them properly.

And pretending there's some wide harassment epidemic because of FFlogs is equally silly. You keep ignoring the qualifier in every response. Most people won't say anything. They'll simply leave or silently kick the person. Starting up an argument and denouncing their logs is neither fast nor efficient. It's much faster to simply kick that person and avoid the drama altogether.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Yes, and not only was it universally hated, it didn't actually work. People just spammed "Good Game" endlessly, to the point they had to ban that. Now they spam "Hello?" Which goes back to my point, banning perfectly functioning systems or tools doesn't fix the problem. It just makes things worse for everyone else who was using them properly.

And pretending there's some wide harassment epidemic because of FFlogs is equally silly. You keep ignoring the qualifier in every response. Most people won't say anything. They'll simply leave or silently kick the person. Starting up an argument and denouncing their logs is neither fast nor efficient. It's much faster to simply kick that person and avoid the drama altogether.

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Remember when they stopped you being able to place waymarks in combat so one guy made the [Nintendo game plugin] instead? That was definitely a good move on SE's part.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

The stalker plogon has no excuse other than stalking, FFLogs has a more explicit, purposeful use, in the end most people are pragmatic, and care not for what is being done, only for what it is being done for.

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However, FFLogs doesn't explicitly need to be opt-out for its intended purpose. If it was opt-in, people using it would still be able to use it to compare themselves against other people who use it while the stalker plugin being opt-in would be quite literally pointless.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Malicious how? FFlogs has been around for a long time, but apart from the harassment that can happen also without it (let's say because a person is wiping the party repeatedly), I don't get where you are going with it and how that information could be used maliciously. Clue me in please.

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You've probably seen the COD PFs with "must have 10+ clears" in their description, right? That's the malice. As well as whatever the hell this quote is.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

Im honest, if i see someone hide his Logs (Ofc only in Savage/Extreme, everything else i dont care) i will kick him without 1 second of a thought, its not about being a bad or good player and i dont even care if he is orange or grey, the only thing which matters for me is the amount of reclears he has. So like previous people said, if someone uses fflogs to harass you just report him and move on

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Console players being at mercy of random plugin user in their party uploading things to then result in judgment around reclears etc is annoying
If that information was possible to accumulate evenly for everyone it would be one thing. When it is cherry picked without you being aware - it is entirely another story.

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Originally Posted by SongOfTheWind

Console players being at mercy of random plugin user in their party uploading things to then result in judgment around reclears etc is annoying
If that information was possible to accumulate evenly for everyone it would be one thing. When it is cherry picked without you being aware - it is entirely another story.

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No one cares about your logs. People just want to get their reclears done quickly, roll on loot and come back next week.

The only time I could see this potentially being a legitimate issue is if a console player somehow manages to have an incredibly bad run of luck where no one is logging in PF, decides that they want to join a static for the next tier and has a hard time due to having no logs. Even then, if they explained the situation, I think most people would be understanding and would give them a chance to trial. It isn't the same as if they had their logs hidden or something.

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Originally Posted by LibitIncarne

You've probably seen the COD PFs with "must have 10+ clears" in their description, right? That's the malice. As well as whatever the hell this quote is.

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I haven't but I did see you needed to have all achievements in Elder Ring, played all previous FF games and so on...

I have only joined 2 CoD parties cause while I think the fight design is super fun, progging this shit in PF is no tx. If I do the fight will be either with a "static" or simply by joining an organized Discord for this.

This tier PF has been a miserable experience for me and party requirements or toxicity aren't the reason for it.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

No one cares about your logs.

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Then there should be no problem with an opt-in model for FF Logs. After all, if no one cares to look someone's logs, what does it matter if they're hidden by default?

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Even then, if they explained the situation, I think most people would be understanding and would give them a chance to trial. It isn't the same as if they had their logs hidden or something.

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And if someone has their logs hidden, a static can either decide to restrict themselves to people with public logs, or else demonstrate their superb communication skills and spend 30 seconds asking for logs to be public long enough to be reviewed.