So why are the crafter relics.. bad.

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

There are crafter relic weapons too like for EW right now?.........well how do I/where do I start to get those or is the same as DoW/DoM to get????

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Start with this quest, get base tool(first one is free, subsequent ones are 1500 W. Scrips), buy mats with W. Scrips, craft collectibles, turn in collectibles for mats, turn in mats to complete quest, do that twice, get shiny crystal non-murder stick.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Stop justifying bad system just because its in your favourite game.

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So, three things:

1.- You're right, I guess.
2.- I wasn't "justifying bad system because favorite game", I was just ignorant of how much you could push Control with Materia at the time. People can learn. I have learned now.
3.- I have no idea why you're acting like a petulant jerk.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Thats funny, because I still have my pentamelded 490 gear. I have 485 control +6 CP on my tools, which was much better than finished relic. I never cared about relic, because it would be a downgrade, as you dont care about craftmanship, once you hit a breakpoint you needed for crafting and didnt wanted to remeld my whole gear. So no, "better starts for sure" is bs and just pure lie.

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Trying to isolate just the primary tools to compare which is better doesn't accomplish anything. You have to bring all gear into the equation because of our ability to pentameld it. BiS comes from the overall combination of stats, not on a slot by slot comparison.

Yes, the Skybuilder tool when released looked like a waste compared to my pentamelded Aesthete tool because it had more Craftsmanship that did nothing to help me reach a new breakpoint where I could remove synthesis steps while I lost a considerable amount of Control that had an impact on my Expert crafting.

BUT...

I redid the pentamelding on the rest of my gear and replaced many of the Competence materia with Command materia. Final result was I went back to having just enough Craftsmanship to hit my desired breakpoint while increasing Control past what I had previously had. I ended up with a better overall set. That turned the Skybuilder tool from a poor substitute into the BiS tool.

By the end, I suspect we'll see the same thing with the Splendorous tools. Because I only expect to see it happen at the end and I'm not currently doing Expert recipes (the current ones are rather pointless), I'm not working on the relic tools yet. If SE releases interesting Expert recipes in 6.4, then I'll reconsider working on the relic tools. If not, I'll wait to see the final version of the tool before making a decision.

I wonder if SE has considered the effect of the relic tool bonus going into 7.0. It would be funny if we see a repeat of what happened several times in WoW where a previous expansion's tier set remained BiS in the next expansion over the new gear because the bonuses were just too powerful compared to the increase in base stats. Blizzard eventually decided to deactivate set bonuses at the end of the relevant expansion.

Will SE have to do the same with the Splendorous tools?

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Start with this quest, get base tool(first one is free, subsequent ones are 1500 W. Scrips), buy mats with W. Scrips, craft collectibles, turn in collectibles for mats, turn in mats to complete quest, do that twice, get shiny crystal non-murder stick.

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Thanks more to do I guess

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Trying to isolate just the primary tools to compare which is better doesn't accomplish anything. You have to bring all gear into the equation because of our ability to pentameld it. BiS comes from the overall combination of stats, not on a slot by slot comparison.

Yes, the Skybuilder tool when released looked like a waste compared to my pentamelded Aesthete tool because it had more Craftsmanship that did nothing to help me reach a new breakpoint where I could remove synthesis steps while I lost a considerable amount of Control that had an impact on my Expert crafting.

BUT...

I redid the pentamelding on the rest of my gear and replaced many of the Competence materia with Command materia. Final result was I went back to having just enough Craftsmanship to hit my desired breakpoint while increasing Control past what I had previously had. I ended up with a better overall set. That turned the Skybuilder tool from a poor substitute into the BiS tool.

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This is the most cope and seethe coment you could write. Yes, you can isolate the primary tool, because you would need ALL OF EM to make the rest of the gear worth changing melds. You cant just change your normal gear melds just for oONE tool. Would that be worth the time invesment, when I was already crafting 510 HQ gear without any HQ mats? Heck no. So stop. You are just embrassing yourself.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

So, three things:

1.- You're right, I guess.
2.- I wasn't "justifying bad system because favorite game", I was just ignorant of how much you could push Control with Materia at the time. People can learn. I have learned now.
3.- I have no idea why you're acting like a petulant jerk.

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Only first paragraph was for you. The rest was for the people in this thread, that scream "but its not even finished boohoo. How dare you think relics are completly useless", which they are. They are meant to just be a glamour. Nothing more. And minmaxing those few stats was never worth. Still, dont care.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

Only first paragraph was for you. The rest was for the people in this thread, that scream "but its not even finished boohoo. How dare you think relics are completly useless", which they are. They are meant to just be a glamour. Nothing more. And minmaxing those few stats was never worth. Still, dont care.

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Alright, fair enough.

For expert crafts, these new tools are hands-down far better than pentamelded tools. On some other thread I did the math out. You need to use one touch ability on one good condition (at IQ stack of 2 or higher) for the crystalline tools to surpass the pentamelded tools. The lower control (presumably, there's control on a pentamelded Indagator tool) is offset by just 1 Good-condition Touch. Everything after that is gravy.

They'll become even better as the tool is upgraded further while the Indagator Tool stays the same.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

This is the most cope and seethe coment you could write. Yes, you can isolate the primary tool, because you would need ALL OF EM to make the rest of the gear worth changing melds. You cant just change your normal gear melds just for oONE tool. Would that be worth the time invesment, when I was already crafting 510 HQ gear without any HQ mats? Heck no. So stop. You are just embrassing yourself.

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Wow, we've met someone who isn't an Omnicrafter. I didn't realize there was anyone still left out there doing end game crafting without leveling all the DoH classes.

If someone makes a relic tool for use, they're going to end up making them all. It's not like it's difficult anymore than leveling up a crafting class is difficult. So yes, the gear ends up worth changing because you will be retaining the same stats on all the DoH classes outside of the minor increase from having Soul of the Crafter equipped.

For you it was not worth the time investment because you were only crafting 510. If I had been only crafting 510, I probably wouldn't have changed either. But I wasn't. I was grinding out Expert recipes for Castle in the Sky, and that made the change more than worth it.

If you had read what I posted, you would see that I'm sticking with my pentamelded Indagator for now. I don't see the current version of the relic tools as useful enough since I'm not currently doing Expert. If I was doing Expert, then I would have gotten them.

But I'm not going to rule out that the future versions of the relic tools won't be worth getting to replace my Indagator primaries. We haven't seen the stats on those tools or whether the bonus has changed. We haven't seen the 640 recipes yet. We haven't seen what new Expert recipes are getting added.

Please go cringe at yourself in a mirror for coming across as someone who only macro crafts and thinks that Exarchic was the pinnacle of crafting difficulty in Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

For expert crafts, these new tools are hands-down far better than pentamelded tools. On some other thread I did the math out. You need to use one touch ability on one good condition (at IQ stack of 2 or higher) for the crystalline tools to surpass the pentamelded tools. The lower control (presumably, there's control on a pentamelded Indagator tool) is offset by just 1 Good-condition Touch. Everything after that is gravy.

They'll become even better as the tool is upgraded further while the Indagator Tool stays the same.

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I agree they're better for Expert.

My problem is I don't see the current Expert recipes as worth the effort. I'm happier waiting to see what other Expert recipes we get and what the final version looks like before I commit to getting them.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Some bs from somebody who thinks experts were hard and you needed relic

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Im trying to figure out, how did got across the thought Im not an omnicrafter. Some big brain thinking right there.

Experts was simple af. Even with normal crafted tool. The time spent for crafting relics that was much worse, I rather put into actually doing the restoration achievements.

I didnt read what tools you using, because I dont care and even if I did, you didnt write that to me. Not going to read everything in this thread. Also, you replied to me. How dare I dont know that you are sticking to crafted tools, even tho you are trying to prove me relics are sooo goood.

You are the only cringe here. Go try to prove that those few stats of Skysteel tools were so helpfull to somebody else. You dont even know what you replied to anymore. Are you kidding me, or is your just smoll crafter brain bothered by somebody, who dont share your opinion about Skysung tools being worth? Do you need headpats?

Also. Last relic step released so long after castle in the sky. Maybe you should spend more time grinding and less time posting on forums how people dissagree with you and calling them cringe for that. Thats cringe.

And if future version is better? Who cares. Who cares that a grindy tool will be better than crafted at basically end of expansion and we have no grindy experts. Only way they would be nice to have is, if they release new resplendent tools.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I agree they're better for Expert.

My problem is I don't see the current Expert recipes as worth the effort. I'm happier waiting to see what other Expert recipes we get and what the final version looks like before I commit to getting them.

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Today they are better for Expert. If these tools wind up like the ShB tools, the finished product will be 20 iLvl above. However, after pentamelds, they are about the same. The crafted tool lets you customize how much craft/control/cp you want. A player could get more control on the crafted tool than the skybuilders tool. However, the skybuilders tool does have better overall stats.

In any case, if a player isn't doing expert crafts, you don't need these tools. Not just because of the Good bonus on touches. Rather, it is because of the nature of how crafting works. You can't get to 110% HQ, so everything over 100% is a waste.