Paired Threads: What would it take to make Heaker kits "complex/interesting"?

Having the weakest damage output of all classes/ roles and the most barebone kit for damage output is just the worst combination.
5min of straight 2111111111112 with the class gimmick on 45s/ 60s cooldown to... uh... cause a burst of excitement, yes. It's trash. The solo experience is miserable. And it drags out for longer than on any other class too.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

I have done the entirety of the MSQ as a healer. ARR as CNJ/WHM (and again as SCH), HW-EW as AST and can tell you that no, solo content as healer is trash and if the devs want to make this game more "solo friendly" they need to fix that glaring hole.

Anyone who thinks that healer is fine I challenge you to do the same thing. Do tell us how long you lasted.

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When I was a little sprout I began as CNJ since I'm a healer/support main in every game I play. I had Aero III, Cleric Stance, Stoneskin, Fluid Aura still did damage, and whatever I crossclassed with ACN or THM - I thought cool, this is like my priest in WoW with a bit of druidism added in!

Any 'healer main' sprout joining in now will too probably think "it'll get better!" and eventually realize...no, it doesn't really get better, they're only ever pressing 111111111, specially because WHM has LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE TO DO, NOT EVEN OGCDS until 56 when they get Assize. I really wouldn't blame them if they just dropped it and go with a dps class instead.

PS: hehe, glaring hole

I think a big part of why the healer problems aren't as immediately apparent is because I believe most players who heal at all don't play healer exclusively. They don't go through the MSQ as a healer, and they don't exclusively heal in group content either. I think most healers are flex healers, so for them, there isn't as deep of an understanding of healer optimization, and even when things do feel stale, they switch to another job.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I think a big part of why the healer problems aren't as immediately apparent is because I believe most players who heal at all don't play healer exclusively. They don't go through the MSQ as a healer, and they don't exclusively heal in group content either. I think most healers are flex healers, so for them, there isn't as deep of an understanding of healer optimization, and even when things do feel stale, they switch to another job.

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This is what I expect too...which is unfortunate as healers' problems will not be brought to the front given how those who main healers are basically the minority of the player base. What the healers need, and I have been saying this, is a unique identity per healer or at least moving in that direction. They are the biggest offenders of over-homogenizing and need to be fixed and adapted to the game, healing is very unneeded and a lot of the responsibilities of the healers have been pushed onto other classes, so as Rilifane said gotta love that 1111....and 2 if you're feeling greedy /sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

When I was a little sprout I began as CNJ since I'm a healer/support main in every game I play. I had Aero III, Cleric Stance, Stoneskin, Fluid Aura still did damage, and whatever I crossclassed with ACN or THM - I thought cool, this is like my priest in WoW with a bit of druidism added in!

Any 'healer main' sprout joining in now will too probably think "it'll get better!" and eventually realize...no, it doesn't really get better, they're only ever pressing 111111111, specially because WHM has LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE TO DO, NOT EVEN OGCDS until 56 when they get Assize. I really wouldn't blame them if they just dropped it and go with a dps class instead.

PS: hehe, glaring hole

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I'm that sprout... I started playing like 4-5 months ago and did the MSQ solo as CNJ. The gameplay was so painful & boring that I was not really paying attention to the story anymore because I had netflix on the side since all I did was run around and the only gameplay was the same spell over & over. I switched to AST when I reached Ishgard cause I thought WHM was the problem but I was still bored whenever I had to fight so I went with sage and was still bored. It was only once I started playing DNC, that I realized that playing healer was the problem.

Then when I finished the MSQ I started savage on my sage and when I got past the thrill of learning the mechanics of p5s and got my first reclears with people that knew the fight, I got bored once again. Because I was left spamming the same spell for nearly the whole fight. Now I'm progging p8s but the tight heal check of phase 2 feels more like a bother. Because all I do is weave a heal in between two dosis casts. I play every healer in savage besides scholar and neither has been fun for me. The only thrill I get when playing now is saving people with rescue, I wish we had more such mechanics.

And please don't tell me that healing isn't for me. I've played healer in nearly every online game where there was such an option.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I think a big part of why the healer problems aren't as immediately apparent is because I believe most players who heal at all don't play healer exclusively. They don't go through the MSQ as a healer, and they don't exclusively heal in group content either. I think most healers are flex healers, so for them, there isn't as deep of an understanding of healer optimization, and even when things do feel stale, they switch to another job.

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I don't want to say their opinion isn't valid, because they should be considered, but, they shouldn't be the focus of any changes. Same as I shouldn't be the focus of any tank changes. I don't exclusively play tank in mid or hard content. I have my pain points same as any, and I have things I don't agree with, but I don't have deep dive knowledge like I do for AST for example.

Changes to any class or role should be targeted for the players who actually play that role more than a flex position. That SE doesn't do this is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

When I was a little sprout I began as CNJ since I'm a healer/support main in every game I play. I had Aero III, Cleric Stance, Stoneskin, Fluid Aura still did damage, and whatever I crossclassed with ACN or THM - I thought cool, this is like my priest in WoW with a bit of druidism added in!

Any 'healer main' sprout joining in now will too probably think "it'll get better!" and eventually realize...no, it doesn't really get better, they're only ever pressing 111111111, specially because WHM has LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE TO DO, NOT EVEN OGCDS until 56 when they get Assize. I really wouldn't blame them if they just dropped it and go with a dps class instead.

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I started in Shb before "the great pruning of Post 2.0 BS" and the AST buffs. The only reason why I didn't quit was because I wanted to play AST that damn bad for aesthetic reasons cause the cards I wanted to play with got removed. Pretty sure I wouldn't hate post patches any where near as much as I do parts of SB and EW if I wasn't a healer. ...Should've mained DRG.

Still don't miss old Sleeve Draw and Lord/Lady BS! Crap was clunky for no good reason.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

When I was a little sprout I began as CNJ since I'm a healer/support main in every game I play. I had Aero III, Cleric Stance, Stoneskin, Fluid Aura still did damage, and whatever I crossclassed with ACN or THM - I thought cool, this is like my priest in WoW with a bit of druidism added in!

Any 'healer main' sprout joining in now will too probably think "it'll get better!" and eventually realize...no, it doesn't really get better, they're only ever pressing 111111111, specially because WHM has LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE TO DO, NOT EVEN OGCDS until 56 when they get Assize. I really wouldn't blame them if they just dropped it and go with a dps class instead.

PS: hehe, glaring hole

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I miss WHM's "glory" days (though it arguably only managed to hit "pretty good" days, Heavensward healer balance gargled some ripe bong water). Heavensward was my last glimpse of the direction things could have gone. The new expansion gave out two oGCD heals, which was great. Previously the only fast/free heal was Benediction, still on its utterly insane 5 minute cooldown. We got Stone 3, an extra good AOE DoT, and Assize, which has its weird usages that made a touch more sense during the Cleric Stance days but acted as a great WHM analog to Flare on trash packs. What's this, an expansion that adds as much or more to a healer's downtime as their uptime? Great! I'd love to see actual utility, a cohesive job theme, something to manage, but we're moving somewhere.

And then someone had an aneurysm midway through Heavensward and went "lol JK, turn this ship around for next expansion. Sylphie Island ahoy. Spamming healing spells as much as you can is your goal now!"

Can you imagine Yoshi P trying to stream the game from the beginning on CNJ. Just a speed run thru the MSQ skipping cutscenes with no extremes, savage, or ultimates. The solo duties, dungeons, and normal trials would be so boring for an orange parsing BLM main. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole healer role got reworked after that.

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Originally Posted by Katish

This is what I expect too...which is unfortunate as healers' problems will not be brought to the front given how those who main healers are basically the minority of the player base. What the healers need, and I have been saying this, is a unique identity per healer or at least moving in that direction. They are the biggest offenders of over-homogenizing and need to be fixed and adapted to the game, healing is very unneeded and a lot of the responsibilities of the healers have been pushed onto other classes, so as Rilifane said gotta love that 1111....and 2 if you're feeling greedy /sarcasm.

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See, I said this ages ago when I first posted in these forums. Look at Apex Legends, or some such game. You have your characters, and their abilities, but you also have this (quickly stolen from a YT vid):

https://i.gyazo.com/3da3ea1e3de07d04...15ddab0b02.jpg

See that bit that says 'Technological Tracker' below Bloodhound's name? At a single glance, a player can tell what the character's vibe and aesthetic, and even gameplay, is about. Bloodhound's gonna be a character who tracks, like a hunter, using technology. So you play as them and you see, oh, this character has a scan that lets them see enemies through walls for a couple of seconds (if they're in range), they can see people's tracks (ie, footprints, opened doors, opened supply containers) and how long ago those 'traces' were left.

We need this for each of the classes in this game, as a guide for the identity of the class. Like, what sounds cooler to read on the official job guide, 'Astrologian' or something like 'Astrologian - Herald of Fate'? Okay maybe it's not cool, maybe its just cringe but we're playing an MMO, we live and breathe the cringe

1) I agree Rilifane! DPS rotations are laughably lame right now. The very unpopular decision to take them away and over homogenize the healing jobs was a grave mistake. Should the dps be on par with traditional dps jobs? Of course not...but, spamming 1-button is just ridiculous design. Anyone responsible for stripping these jobs down to the state they are in today should be barred from touching healers again.