the normal content is too easy

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

You do realize this is the same SE who were completely baffled by Bard's utterly dominance for two full expansions only to admit they never balanced it (or Machinist) around the Piercing DPS, yes? Or the same SE who insisted Lilies were completely fine throughout Stormblood only to cave in Shadowbringers when people were advising new White Mage players to literally take their gauge and throw it away because Lilies were that useless? By the way, players told Yoshida at the media tour this was a problem. How about with Endwalker right now where Machinist has been left to rot for the entire tier because it's damage was so hilariously low it can't compete with Dancer.

Suffice it to say, SE has a lengthily track record showing the precise opposite of this supposed "proof".

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and the infamous "we honestly have no idea what to do with scholar" endwalker response.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Did I make any mention of this? Where are these questions coming from?



Let's be real man. Not even sprouts struggle with Thordan.

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sprouts dont even take long enough to see the neato gimmick after his big flashy attack where he's all tuckered out and talking mad shit

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

With respect to the Heavensward expansion, they are. How many FFXIV vets in 2022 are still stuck on Thordan? Of those players, how many you would refer to as top tier? It's utterly ridiculous for you to state that sprout content from three expansions ago shouldn't be targeted at sprouts with no MMO experience.

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How many people started as vets?

I was a total Noob to MMOs when I started in ARR. I struggled to complete some job quests (most notable being a Level 15 THM quest and the level 50 SMN). However, instead of whining and complaining things were too hard, I got good instead and by the end of ARR, I'd cleared coils. If a total noob was able to get thru the game back when it was actually hard, I fail to see the argument now.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

How mamy people started as vets?

I was a total Noob to MMOs when I started in ARR. I struggled to complete some job quests (most notable being a Level 15 THM quest and the level 50 SMN). However, instead of whining and complaining things were too hard, I got good instead and by the end of ARR, I'd cleared coils. If a total noob was able to get thru the game back when it was actually hard, I fail to see the argument now.

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That was exactly my point. Players doing Thordan in 2022 aren't jaded FFXIV vets who are bored with the mechanics. They're perfectly happy with how it is. Players are still struggling to complete some job quests. I've had my share of wipes. Just the other day, I failed a Black Mage quest because I didn't see the giant meteors that spawned a golem who punched really hard. The lesson was learned. There was an easy mode option, but I didn't take it. I tried it again and succeeded. It felt great. The game is just fine. I didn't feel hollow and empty because the meteors were predictable and telegraphed. The difference between the job quest difficulty now and when you started is that you've gotten much better at the game than you were as a total noob to MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

That was exactly my point. Players doing Thordan in 2022 aren't jaded FFXIV vets who are bored with the mechanics. They're perfectly happy with how it is. Players are still struggling to complete some job quests. I've had my share of wipes. Just the other day, I failed a Black Mage quest because I didn't see the giant meteors that spawned a golem who punched really hard. The lesson was learned. There was an easy mode option, but I didn't take it. I tried it again and succeeded. It felt great. The game is just fine. I didn't feel hollow and empty because the meteors were predictable and telegraphed. The difference between the job quest difficulty now and when you started is that you've gotten much better at the game than you were as a total noob to MMOs.

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So why do we have noobs quitting? I have 2 friends quit on me personally after they couldnt find anything fun about the gameplay in all of ARR and beginning of HW. Gameplay. Not story.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

So why do we have noobs quitting? I have 2 friends quit on me personally after they couldnt find anything fun about the gameplay in all of ARR and beginning of HW. Gameplay. Not story.

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Basically this. I’ve seen several complaints from new players about how boring gameplay is at the lower levels. From the forums to in Cactuar’s Novice Network.

Well making a better experience for new players is deffo something that is sorely needed. It's simply not much fun.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Basically this. I’ve seen several complaints from new players about how boring gameplay is at the lower levels. From the forums to in Cactuar’s Novice Network.

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Heck, I would've quit too. NGL. I had the blessing of playing most of the content of this game as it was coming out and fresh because the experience was more challenging and fulfilling. We have people coming into this game who have to spend dozens of hours hitting 2 buttons on their hotbar with vets not even saying a word to them and bulldozing through content regardless of whether they die or get left behind.

If anything I think the current nerfed content is catering to jaded old vet players who dont want to talk or teach people and just want to watch youtube while they grind their tomestones for crappy rewards over and over again. And they don't want to bother themselves having to explain any mechanics or interacting with noobs so they can be part of the team and clear content together just because they themselves have already done it before.

That doesn't sound like fun to me. I don't think it sounds like fun if I were a noob. It's just depressing. If I described it to you this way before you bought it would you still buy this game? And the thing is I wouldn't be lying to you.

@Ath

Damn didnt occur to me that the jaded vets are the ines keeping the game easy. Not saying its true but it makes sense. Look how they reacted to praetorium. Quiting becaise they've done it a billion times. I myself dont queue uo to story roullete and havent for a long time.

I will repeat copy pasta what I wrote on the other thread about this.


2) the idea that the game didnt become easier we as a player base just got better after 10 years of playing the game. This may be true but I have two friends of comparable skill one played before Shb and the other after. Pre-shb friend did Ifrit Normal and was like "man that felt like a real boss from like a single player game. I want to queue again." Mind you we didnt wipe. We cleared it pretty easy. But the spectacle of it was awesome. Second friend post-shb did Ifrit normal and was like "Thats it? That was stupid. Very dissapointing." And it was because we destroyed him super fast. Im sorry but no amount of increase in player skill can account to that. Thats straight up raw damage increase from Shb. And I like the Shb change. It always bothered me that melee classes would purposely nerf their damage. But this great buff came at the cost of the lower level enjoyment.

I will also add that a lot of the arguments against making lower level hard dont hold water.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

So why do we have noobs quitting? I have 2 friends quit on me personally after they couldnt find anything fun about the gameplay in all of ARR and beginning of HW. Gameplay. Not story.

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What previous gaming experience did your friends have and which genres did they prefer?

That's where some of the problems come in. Some new players have extensive gaming experience when they start this game. Some have none.

Or it could be your friends just don't like the "JRPG in a MMO" experience regardless of what games they've played in the past.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What previous gaming experience did your friends have and which genres did they prefer?

That's where some of the problems come in. Some new players have extensive gaming experience when they start this game. Some have none.

Or it could be your friends just don't like the "JRPG in a MMO" experience regardless of what games they've played in the past.

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Lifelong gamers really, played MMOs like DAOC, Aion, super mario RPG was one of their favorites, sometimes shooters, league, ARK, some FFs, just got done with Elden ring, sometimes strategy games, huge fans of pokemon, zelda. They watch anime. They're not the discriminatory type when it comes to games.

But you know after they played a good 50 hours or so they just stopped logging on and when I asked they told me it was boring AF. I told them it got really good later and they told me they shouldn't have to put in hundreds of hours to see a good fight. I didn't push them any further they were gone.

I can probably tell you if the roulettes were min ilvl and maybe we had the original experience of the ARR expert dungeons and Crystal Tower, WoD they wouldve found it fun. But they just ran following the crowds that barely moved and just spammed buttons in the raids and all they did in dungeons was spam their 3 or 4 buttons and nothing was ever dangerous per se.

Quite honestly as we played the amount of excuses I kept having to make for the game even made me realize wow.... this sucks for new players.