Healers, not required. (EW SPOILERS)

This is why MMORPG's like Dark Age of Camelot and Everquest were superior. Your roles did what your roles did.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

I mean you can go in with 1 tank and all healers too...DPS not needed? They took 3 dancers for that and the pld helped heal...one healer would have been far more efficient lol

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The dancers healed with an OGCD.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I am fervently hoping that the savage tier continues to use damage down; it was refreshing to see DPS actually care about doing mechanics properly. ;)

Though I admit, I actually rather liked the Delubrum Reginae "Twice-Come Ruin" (or the savage variant's "Thrice-Come Ruin"). It was forgiving -- screw up a mechanic and you were put on probation rather than instantly vuln stack'd or damage down'd. But repeatedly mess up a mechanic and you just plain died. No "the healer should've healed me through this", you just get Doom and you're gone.

It was like the perfect combination -- to my taste, at least -- of forgiving ("Okay, you screwed this up once; you're on probation, buddy") and unforgiving ("Welp, you die now.").

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Problem with those instant death things in Bojza is they completely negated the Honors for Healing and HP and made 10 stacks of Damage Honors king.

What's the point of extra HP and healing if someone is going to die in 2 hits?

Honestly I think they should tie healers as a job to specific mechanics in dungeons and trials. I remember this boss in Tera when healer had to aggro multiple trash packs and run in circles around the arena trying to dodge mobs' attacks while simultaneously healing their party members. This felt very engaging and fun, every dungeon you had to do your specific thing thus making a healer relevant no matter what.

Now, whether it would be considered fun by ffxiv players I don't know, but it's definitely an alternative if we're not trying to change healers as a job. Sure, you can have your one button dmg spell and 2 buttons for healing, but you also have to do this specific mechanic that nobody else would do.

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Originally Posted by OtakuSempai

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1qL4y1J7Mh
(EX Trial 1)

Healers are no longer required in some of the supposedly hardest content in the game.

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Thx... now i feel even more like a piece of garbage when im playing DRK.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

It is quite ironic how Squeenix fails to design proper Healer and Tank Jobs, and yet have the audacity to say "do some Devs even play their own Games?"

There are ALOT of ways to fix the issues on both Healers and Tanks. Everyone here who has experienced multiple MMOs in his life, knows that normally, Specialist Roles such as Healers and Tanks, arent suppoest to be generalized down to the bare bones.

- I think its stupid Game design that every Job has Party Utilities that should normally be in the hands if Healer and Support classes (like Bard, DNC and RDM).
- It is also stupid that RDM and SMN have access to the same Res Skill as Healers have (which destroys another aspect of the main duty of Healers). IF Res should be inplimented into another Class outside of the Healer Role, it should be alot more restricted, like having a 2-5Min CD and that it cannot be swift-/dualcasted.
- Tanks being now way too beefy, renders Healers completely unnecessary. Bloodwhetting/Heart of Corundum aside (which are way too potent), Tanks already had too many ways of the same type of dmg mitigation, and the more they get, the less Healers get something to do (cut the amount of Tank CD's that reduce dmg by X amount in half and give Tanks a "Parry Skill" that isnt straight up broken. For example, -10% dmg reduction for 4-6sec for the next attack recieved, but if you dont get hit by anything during that time and it wears off, u recieve +10% dmg for the same amount of time, also on GCD)
- If you want Healers to be healing properly, then give them actual Skills that actually compliment their other Skills in their Kit more, instead of giving them simple black and white fashioned abilities. This is a MMORPG, not Dragon Quest.

Also, Get yourself a proper Team for Job design and remove the people who currently do it. Youre failing for 3 Expansions in a Row now and it is only getting worse. The fact that Healers have to deal with this mess for another 2-3 Years at least, is just Unfair.

Tl;dr: Dont design Tanks and Healers, if you dont play Tank or Healer in MMOs.

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Finally someone in this thread who understands the post. Healers are badly designed and the fact that the video is even possible is all the proof there needs.

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Originally Posted by Haseno

This is why MMORPG's like Dark Age of Camelot and Everquest were superior. Your roles did what your roles did.

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And this is all I want. Not sure why so many people in this thread feel the need to be such contrarians on this topic.

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Originally Posted by Theox

Honestly I think they should tie healers as a job to specific mechanics in dungeons and trials. I remember this boss in Tera when healer had to aggro multiple trash packs and run in circles around the arena trying to dodge mobs' attacks while simultaneously healing their party members. This felt very engaging and fun, every dungeon you had to do your specific thing thus making a healer relevant no matter what.

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Manaya's Core right? One of my favorite healer's experiences in an MMO. I wish we could have stuff like this in FF14.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I am fervently hoping that the savage tier continues to use damage down; it was refreshing to see DPS actually care about doing mechanics properly. ;)

Though I admit, I actually rather liked the Delubrum Reginae "Twice-Come Ruin" (or the savage variant's "Thrice-Come Ruin"). It was forgiving -- screw up a mechanic and you were put on probation rather than instantly vuln stack'd or damage down'd. But repeatedly mess up a mechanic and you just plain died. No "the healer should've healed me through this", you just get Doom and you're gone.

It was like the perfect combination -- to my taste, at least -- of forgiving ("Okay, you screwed this up once; you're on probation, buddy") and unforgiving ("Welp, you die now.").

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I'd argue that twice come ruin was lazy and ruined Delubrum because it killed all options but pure damage builds, it would make sense if it was on certain mechanics but it was on literally everything including the most mundane attacks from the trash minibosses.

The debuff was less of a punishment for messing up mechanics and more like if a GM used the console to force kill you because you messed up.

This fight doesn't have any sort of heal check. If all party members use mitigation tools properly (This includes self & party healing abilities). The healers would barely need to lift a finger.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

That EX is an absolute joke and literally only has 5-6 unavoidable raidwides in the entire fight depending on how fast you kill it.

That's 5-6 raidwides over the space of 8+ minutes, split between 2 healers who both have a huge kit of healing tools. It's no surprise healers are of less use. The second EX and Normal raids aren't much better, they'll feel chaotic while you're learning them because being hit by avoidable mechanics hurts or kills you, but once you and your group learn the fight you start to realize the actual unavoidable damage is very rare while healing toolkits have only become stronger.

We're going down a bad path. They completely ignored healer requests for more damage to heal and have actually reduced it. This is shaping up to be by far the easiest and most boring expansion for healing yet.

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Bro, they design for the casual audience and they can barely keep up currently so I doubt that they are going to drop something like Living Liquid TES version on them to absolutely destroy them.