Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

What does it matter the genre of game that it is?? Lol Cheating is cheating. And of course these anti-cheat solutions used by these companies aren't perfect and don't catch 100% of the cheating. No one claimed otherwise. So since we can't catch them all, don't even try? Since cheating will still always happen to some degree, just allow it outright? I think not.

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because cheating in those games is completely different? stop being disingenuous
the few bot programs XIV has regularly gets the people that use them banned, you know, the cheating programs that come somewhat close what all the cheats in those games you listed do

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

You don't have a single job at 80

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they have not made a single post that wasn't about WoW in any way in some shape or form, either
talk about an ex-gf/bf living in someone's bitter head rent free after it's over

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I've watched dozens of hours of interviews the past couple of weeks. No I don't have a link but im pretty sure it was the interview he did with the dude from method, and I thought it was obvious this isn't "just about cactpot" at this point. And like I said about paraphrasing, im sure in this context "third party tools" doesn't mean spreadsheets and calculators but tools that directly interface with the games code running on someones machine. Something that actually modifies the game like certain "xiv plugins."

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Having a hard time finding the interview you are talking about, I dont see an interview with method or the person who runs it. The most readily available plugins are from dalamud plugins, mostly just UI and QoL related, very few of them actually do something other than displaying information you could just have on a second monitor. The hitbox plugin sounds broken until you realize that no fight is designed with it in mind so the benefit it has is restricted to like 2 attacks in the entirety of bozja. I have yet to see intentionally extremly tiny safespots showing up anywhere else. If specific lines or borders are important in a fight, the arena floor has them printed on it.
The plugin displaying exact aoes under you is to my knowledge custom made and not available to the public, no one can require you to have it.

When third party tools need to be cracked down on hard, SE would need to draw a line what is and isnt ok but that's a futile effort. A mouse with extra buttons is going to affect the game a lot more than any of the dalamud plugins.

There really is no reason to panic and even less to start fear mongering. People are taking shortcuts and while that's not good, the impact of that is very low. Even if you were to join a group of all cactbot users with combo and hitbox plugin or whatever, the only way for you to fall behind is if you yourself are slow to learning. We saw this with the wow streamer that cleared ucob. His learning process was massively accelerated by having experts because the only mistakes he was left to deal with were his own. (the question of if he was carried or not is of course for another thread, anyone wanna do that one again?)

The game is designed for not using third party tools, which means unless your party is literally forcing you to post screenshots of your overlay (in which case leaving that party would be the best course of action anyway) there is no way for them to check if you have plugins/cactbot active.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

It's illegal to have a program that scans for hacks? Don't many other games do this....?

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The EU sued Blizzard when they did this with WoW, on the grounds that it was an invasion of privacy. I don't recall any other major game companies trying it since then.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

I will add to this:

• Your raid leader can make mistakes.
• Your raid leader cannot give your entire party individual callouts per your role in the mechanic.
• Your raid leader cannot give you callouts faster than the mechanic's in-game visual cues or with zero delay.

Stop rationalizing it and own it. You're using it to make the game easier.

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I did every roles callouts for my group during coil.

I've also done it in e12s, just off memorization of the fight.

And I have a shoddy memory. People with much better memory than me play this game.

I dislike cactbot, but I think people who don't raid are overinflating it's importance here.

This thread is placing cactbot on a pedestal if we think it is materially different than a person doing calls. Every single savage fight in the game is scripted in terms of which attacks come out at which point in time.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I agree. Meters are fine, but callouts and automarkers are crossing the line.

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Callouts is fine imo, it doesn't hurt anyone. Some people might need that guidance for whatever reason. Automarkers is bit much, agreed.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Do you think this is purely about cactbot?

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The whole thread has been about Cactbot. Oh wait you're just complaining about QoL adjustments that XIVLauncher brings? okey.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

It's perfectly legal and done by game companies anywhere that any Call of Duty , Fortnite, Blizzard game, Apex Legends, Doom, PubG or Valorant and League of Legends, and Battlefield game is played and many many other games already do this. SE needs to start too.

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Depends on the implementation. Does all these games scan your computer or is it just a anti-cheat built into the game? If its scans your computer then that violated multiple regulations and laws in many countries.

Cheaters never win

To be entirely blunt. They will never crack down on third party programs like Cactbot, plugins, mods and so forth more than they already do because it's simply not financially beneficial. Square Enix only stands to lose subs if they were to suddenly break every single add on from ACT to texture mods. On the flipside, they won't gain any by removing them. Basically, there is zero incentive for them, especially when they can take their current approach and reap all the benefits without dealing with any consequences.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

To be entirely blunt. They will never crack down on third party programs like Cactbot, plugins, mods and so forth more than they already do because it's simply not financially beneficial.

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^This is the reality of the situation. It takes time & money to hire sophisticated anti-cheat developers and have them develop an extremely powerful, sophisticated anti cheat system, as any half-hearted attempts at anti-cheat programs will be shattered in mere days, if not hours. Anti-cheats have been getting annihilated since the very first usage of them; why bother spending all that money and time developing something that's just going to get wrecked in mere days?

Not to mention the fact the most latest anti-cheats in the industry have been causing nothing but huge controversies due to their steady shift towards making them kernel access level, which introduces a huge amount of privacy concerns and possible security exploits, which IMO, is only a ticking time bomb before something happens and the law get involved once something happens. Not to mention the fact that anti-cheat software is cumbersome and in many cases, only harms the innocent user and not the ones they're supposed to target, or in worst cases, causes false flags off of stuff like software for your gaming mouse, keyboard, etc.

On the flipside, 3rd party add-ons can actually have a positive affect at player retention. People going for higher parses will be subbed for longer as they grind out their parses, which inadvertently also keeps the PFs for high end content filled with more players. People who enjoy glamours and gear/texture modding will stay subbed longer to try out all the cool gear mods they see coming out, it might even be a mod for a mogstation item they would have never purchased, so suddenly Square makes profit from an item that wasn't going to be purchased otherwise. Or the player will start grinding out items from dungeons/hairstyles/etc to get the base item the mod changes when they'd never have a reason to before, staying subbed longer, keeping them in queues for stuff, etc.

Heck, they probably turn a blind eye to streamers using 3rd party add-ons since it can be free advertisement. A WoW player that might be on the fence of trying FF14 but not liking the UI might see the Limit or Echo streams that have been happening recently, see the WoW-esque UI mods available, and be tipped over the fence to come play FF14, giving Square another subscriber. Not to mention the fact that if the streamer is clearly enjoying the game and they have a huge fanbase, it'd be stupid for Square to take action against them for 3rd party add-ons since there's a huge audience of potential subscribers watching them.

Square basically has everything to gain from staying on the side of 'Don't harass others with your 3rd party stuff, Keep it to yourself and everything will be dandy.'

If people can't help themselves from using add-ons they aren't supposed to, maybe the community need to turn the World First race into two categories. World First (mods, add-ons) and World First (No mods/add-ons).