Please make healing more worthwhile than Dps-ing

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Originally Posted by IttyBitty

.... Our DPS output could be reduced to 3.x levels and we'd still be advocating for DPS contribution because it's more worthwhile than standing around with our fingers up our noses. I play videogames with other people to actively contribute to the group effort, not so I can watch them do everything for me and occasionally lift a finger when I'm actually needed.

Bad players are going to be bad players no matter what tools they have access to. Blaming it on the evil boogeyman that is DPS skills is dumb.

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this this this I LOVE YOU THIS!!

literally this is about having the option to do something, feel fulfilled- it can be done, and doesn't have to just be a tank and dps class to do it.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

If you have a system where healing is a gain youve not changed anything, you've just added a system where people will just do empty healing to do more damage, which isnt fun

If you add a system where healing is dps neutral then thats just kinda bland/ what we already have with off global healing

Personally I'm a fan of the sch approach where healing and dps use the same rescource, because then you really see a defined skillgap when you look at combined healer damage logs where people have optimised the best they can.

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but wouldn't t make heal and dps using the same resource make healer refuse to heal even more? Like why should i heal you and decrease my dps mind... All aetherflow on energy drain sch come to mind.

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Originally Posted by Kinks

this this this I LOVE YOU THIS!!

literally this is about having the option to do something, feel fulfilled- it can be done, and doesn't have to just be a tank and dps class to do it.

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This is not a thread about healer shouldnt dps-ing its a thread about how to make healer heal without losing dps, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

but wouldn't t make heal and dps using the same resource make healer refuse to heal even more? Like why should i heal you and decrease my dps mind... All aetherflow on energy drain sch come to mind.



This is not a thread about healer shouldnt dps-ing its a thread about how to make healer heal without losing dps, thank you.

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SCHs that use every single aetherflow on energy drain are doomed to fail, as are the ones that only use it to heal. Healing is a balance that healers need to learn. Healing is also a group effort. Many DPS forget they have tools like second wind, blood bath, addle, feint, etc. That all help with healing. Good healers should not be punished because of the ones that do not properly use their tools. SCH aetherflow is a good idea, but I think it needs more decisions to it, I need more give and take other than energy drain/healing if I can't have my DPS abilities back.

As for making healers heal without losing DPS,I don't see that ever being a thing, because of how the game is designed. If healing was DPS neutral/ DPS gains then healing would become too easy. If healers fail because they didn't heal enough and went too far on the DPS side? Good, they need to learn from it, same for the healers that let their team hit enraged because they spent too much time healing and not enough time DPSing. The equivalent would be like saying "find a way to make DPS not do their rotation but not lose DPS", then where does the challenge come from?

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

As for making healers heal without losing DPS,I don't see that ever being a thing, because of how the game is designed. If healing was DPS neutral/ DPS gains then healing would become too easy. If healers fail because they didn't heal enough and went too far on the DPS side? Good, they need to learn from it, same for the healers that let their team hit enraged because they spent too much time healing and not enough time DPSing. The equivalent would be like saying "find a way to make DPS not do their rotation but not lose DPS", then where does the challenge come from?

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Didn't SE do exactly what OP is proposing with tanks though? A stance you activate once that automatically fulfills your primary role when using dps skills, making you unable to fail as long as you're pressing buttons?

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

Didn't SE do exactly what OP is proposing with tanks though? A stance you activate once that automatically fulfills your primary role when using dps skills, making you unable to fail as long as you're pressing buttons?

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Aggro was rarely an issue back in SB, unless you had a WHM tbh. You would start the fight in tank stance, establish aggro, then turn off tank stance, so those changes just changed openers and not really much else. A tanks true job is CDing when necessary, knowing when to tank swap, and where to position the boss, all Of which are still in tact and the same as ever. Making healers DPS and heal at the same time, and making it DPS neutral or a DPS gain would make healing even more brain dead simple and easy than it already is, and I don't want what little complexity I have in my job being stripped away from me.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

but wouldn't t make heal and dps using the same resource make healer refuse to heal even more? Like why should i heal you and decrease my dps mind... All aetherflow on energy drain sch come to mind.



This is not a thread about healer shouldnt dps-ing its a thread about how to make healer heal without losing dps, thank you.

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and this was my response to that concept;

" 2. Decrease the normal Dps spell potency (Glare/Broil/Etc)
The idea is to make people who actually heal and care for your party..."

The reward for healing is that your party is not dead, if you don't heal, people will die, simple.
If I don't heal, my party dies. I think that's incentive enough to care.

anyways, someone happened to beat me to a good response.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Aggro was rarely an issue back in SB, unless you had a WHM tbh. You would start the fight in tank stance, establish aggro, then turn off tank stance, so those changes just changed openers and not really much else. A tanks true job is CDing when necessary, knowing when to tank swap, and where to position the boss, all Of which are still in tact and the same as ever. Making healers DPS and heal at the same time, and making it DPS neutral or a DPS gain would make healing even more brain dead simple and easy than it already is, and I don't want what little complexity I have in my job being stripped away from me.

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Hmm i guess maintaining aggro was less of an issue than healing is, but i still wonder what was the reason behind simplifying it; and if the reason was that failing other tank jobs (apart from boss positioning) mainly got tank killed, while failing to maintain aggro got other people (dps) killed, then healing complexity might also be in trouble ^^

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

If you're just spamming your 'buff' gcd on the strongest ally what difference is that to spamming a damage skill on the boss? How would a class with no way to damage do solo duties and overworld activities?

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Notice I said meaningful buffing, you just assumed that it would be like that. No, I meant that if we would have meaningful and interesting things to do during downtime it would be better, I didn't even say it has to buff damage. The point is that at least myself I don't particularly enjoy doing dps during the downtime, but it's the only thing to do. The problem is that a lot of healing is not required and during long downtimes we either have two things to do 1. dps 2. nothing. I actually remember back when healers doing damage wasn't in the meta I enjoyed applying stoneskins to people during downtime, I dunno maybe that's just me but I like playing support way more and that's why I picked a healer back in 2.0. Now I am not saying that is the solution, that shit wouldn't fly today, but I found it more enjoyable.

EDIT: notice I also said "while it was healing" implying that you could choose between healing and doing dps beforehand but that wasn't nowhere near the point, it was an example meant to illustrate different things to do during downtime.

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

If you're just spamming your 'buff' gcd on the strongest ally what difference is that to spamming a damage skill on the boss? How would a class with no way to damage do solo duties and overworld activities?

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Ideally there wouldn't just be one "buff" GCD to manage or "debuff" GCD to manage. Squeenix would have to design some actual gameplay around support for the whole idea to work. Right now they're just stripping away the tools by a thousand cuts so that gameplay cannot exist.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

SCHs that use every single aetherflow on energy drain are doomed to fail, as are the ones that only use it to heal. Healing is a balance that healers need to learn. Healing is also a group effort. Many DPS forget they have tools like second wind, blood bath, addle, feint, etc. That all help with healing. Good healers should not be punished because of the ones that do not properly use their tools. SCH aetherflow is a good idea, but I think it needs more decisions to it, I need more give and take other than energy drain/healing if I can't have my DPS abilities back.

As for making healers heal without losing DPS,I don't see that ever being a thing, because of how the game is designed. If healing was DPS neutral/ DPS gains then healing would become too easy. If healers fail because they didn't heal enough and went too far on the DPS side? Good, they need to learn from it, same for the healers that let their team hit enraged because they spent too much time healing and not enough time DPSing. The equivalent would be like saying "find a way to make DPS not do their rotation but not lose DPS", then where does the challenge come from?

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There's only a finite amount of heal you can heal in a fight, wont having a nuke that can only be done after a certain amount of healing would make interaction between heal and dps-ing more interesting? since you need to heal as much as possible WITHOUT overheal too much (lets not count overheal since... its overheal), at least i think its gonna be more its challenging than dps-ing while praying nobody make any mistake... imo, i think... not sure?

Ps. Just try healing savage so that i can understand more healer POV and manage to do E3s just fine with 450 eden normal gear (with a good healing partner that tell me when to heal at VC though... lol)

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Originally Posted by Kinks

and this was my response to that concept;

" 2. Decrease the normal Dps spell potency (Glare/Broil/Etc)
The idea is to make people who actually heal and care for your party..."

The reward for healing is that your party is not dead, if you don't heal, people will die, simple.
If I don't heal, my party dies. I think that's incentive enough to care.

anyways, someone happened to beat me to a good response.

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1. Make it so that healer have a gauge that can only be accumulated by healing and raise (don't count overheal), that can be used to dish out a BIG Dps

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2. Decrease the normal Dps spell potency (Glare/Broil/Etc

Apperantly people tend to miss the and part? Number 2 is there to balance the dps, since we dont want just give healer another nuke and raising their dps again, please dont just read the nerf, and ignore the buff they are a set in one idea, thank you.