Can we remove Tank Stance?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Been in a few parties over the last few days where tanks weren't using their tank stance, were loosing hate, and dying without the damage resistance.

Could we just remove the stance and give them the damage resistance and enmity generation innately?

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Were you using your enmity abilities?

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Also, if it made Warrior mains want to uninstall, then that just means they shouldn't have been be tanking anyway, which is all the more reason why an adjustment like that should be promoted. At the end of the day, a tank is and should be a tank, and the changes I suggested promote tanks fulfilling their intended role rather than being the dps that holds threat.

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They do fulfill their intended role, you're trying to fix nothing.

Tanks can hold hate if they play well and understand what they're doing while utilizing their stances (even if it's just for 2 buttons in an opener) and the tools of their class. This game is incredibly DPS output oriented, and it's a lot of the fun of tanking in a lot of cases for a lot of players (myself included).

Just because some people can't pull it off, doesn't mean it's a systemic flaw of the class. I've seen DPS do less than 1k in fights, does that mean all the DPS classes should be overhauled because "DPS should be DPS, which means they should do damage!"? No, that's silly. Because it's based off players who aren't utilizing their classes and toolkits correctly.

Just because DPS don't know what a "Diversion" is doesn't mean that the tank in question is at fault if said DPS rips hate and dies for it. Part of being able to recognize when/if DPS are using those CD's is part of tanking, but it's also the job of the other players to actually use those buttons. They exist for a reason, after all.

The suggestion you have removes the specific feel and gameplay style tanks have in XIV. It'd make them not much different from WoW tanks and, frankly, if I wanted to tank in WoW I'd go play WoW.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

Just because DPS don't know what a "Diversion" is doesn't mean that the tank in question is at fault if said DPS rips hate and dies for it. Part of being able to recognize when/if DPS are using those CD's is part of tanking, but it's also the job of the other players to actually use those buttons. They exist for a reason, after all.

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I highly recommend any player who wants a crash course in "Why Diversion is kind of necessary" to play RDM in savage content and go blowing their burst as fast as they possibly can.

Watch the emity get absolutely ripped.....it's how I learned why I should use it.

I play a main tank, I think tank stance needs to be removed or reworked in the 5.0 battle system rework. Here is why in end game the tank who is pulling uses tank stance for about 1 enmity combo on the pull then switches to dps stance for the rest of the fight. The tank who did not pull never enters tank stance ever and is in dps stance the whole time. Endgame, EX fights, Savage and Ultimate are designed around having tanks use dps stance for almost the whole fight. Yes you need help from the party to make this smoother, dps should be using their aggro reducing abilities, the ninja should be using shadewalker.

Another thought is make it so the mobs actually hit hard enough that it is required to use tank stance. But my personal thought is just get rid of tank stances and bake enmity and damage reduction into a tank trait, because tank stance is not used outside of the pull and then only for 1 combo.

To be honest, is more common to see DPS not using their cooldowns, AoE and aggro managment in general than tanks not using their tanking stance.
The game really need to reinforce the idea of aggro being something party wide and not exclusively Tank responsability.

Diversion doesn't help at all if tank doesn't use a tank stance. I have used it and lucid dreaming. After 2 crit hits the mobs there tanking comes after to me. This was in normal level 70 dungeon. If they get rid of tank stance they need to add more dps skills that remove emity.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

*Large dungeon trash pulls
*healer(s) are down
*Fresh content
*MT just died
*Enmity reset
*Add phase

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Should tank stances be removed, I don't think these situations would cause problems even for below average players if some skills were given a bigger enmity bonus. Add phase and dungeon pulls would be covered by having AoE skills give more enmity. Enmity resets, tank swaps and MT deaths could be handled if enmity combos and the attack for ranged pulling produced more enmity. Situations where the defensive aspect is useful, like in fresh content and when healers die, could be taken into account by turning tank stance into a defensive cooldown or by reducing the recast time of existing defensive cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Diversion doesn't help at all if tank doesn't use a tank stance. I have used it and lucid dreaming. After 2 crit hits the mobs there tanking comes after to me. This was in normal level 70 dungeon. If they get rid of tank stance they need to add more dps skills that remove emity.

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That's sounds more like that you tank was just doing single target combos instead of using aoes, if the tank do his job properly diversion and lucid will work as intented, if he wasn't hitting the mobs you will get the mobs no matter if he is using tank stance or not.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Should tank stances be removed, I don't think these situations would cause problems even for below average players if some skills were given a bigger enmity bonus. Add phase and dungeon pulls would be covered by having AoE skills give more enmity. Enmity resets, tank swaps and MT deaths could be handled if enmity combos and the attack for ranged pulling produced more enmity. Situations where the defensive aspect is useful, like in fresh content and when healers die, could be taken into account by turning tank stance into a defensive cooldown or by reducing the recast time of existing defensive cooldowns.

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The list I brought up are just 'good' times to go back into tank stance. Where the use of the GCD and MP cost hurt the least so-to-speak. Grabbing hate while in DPS stance is still not that big of an issue so long as your group is working with you. Large pulls in dungeons is a bit of an exception to this because you can already be in tank stance prior to the pull.

As I said before, taking away tank stances would force a rework for the devs because abilities are tied to them. Another reason is simply playstyle preference and a lot of tanks want to swap stances because it gives them a little more to do and think about while tanking. I don't feel taking it away would really hurt the game, but we'd probably just end up with three very similar tanks unless they can figure out a way around that.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

...Everyone wants to be a DPS now a days anyway...

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I think those people just have to use a dps job. They have a huge number of jobs to choose from: melee, physical, magical, ranged and not ranged. Tanks are... three options in total? Healers too.