Ways to fix BRD and MCH in a realistic way

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Originally Posted by Nandalowell

The circles you guys are running is making me dizzy.

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Yeah... It's clear now! People who play Bard think of their jobs one way, people who hardly/never play Bard think of it the other way.
Bards are DPS. Bards are TP/MP providers. Bards are magic defense lowerers. And for that we have always paid the price with our damage output which was nerfed early on in ARR.

Let's take each other's input on the DPS vs Song provider rants and see how we can use that to grow. Not growl.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

seriously your only argument revolves around *it says i am a dps*

your most valuable feature is your songs. if damage was the important part they would take someone who did more but it doesn't matter.

why? because without songs the whole raid fails.

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You're still failing to see the whole picture.

To a NON-BARD, songs are the most important asset.

To a BARD, mobility is undeniably more important, since proper usage of songs is actually very situational. Mobility is what separates us from casters, and mobility is what allows us to maintain DPS while dodging or handling mechanics.

What Bards are complaining about is that they don't want Minuet to take away their mobility, because that's the only thing they have over the more powerful caster and melee classes. Most of all, Bards love a mobile ranged gameplay, and that's why they rolled the class in the first place instead of casters. That is what's causing an outrage right now.

Yet Non-Bards are flooding this thread, snarkily commenting that Bards "deserve" to have their mobility taken away because they're just "damn jukeboxes." They also go so far as insulting actual Bards, telling them to "learn your job" if they disagree, despite the fact that these NON-BARDS have no damn clue about how to properly play the job they are insulting.

Talk about self-centered and ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

Talk about self-centered and ignorant.

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i see the whole picture.

*i play bard so i can run and shoot*

guess what? it doesn't matter. people don't care that you can run and shoot they care for your songs.

your mobility has no meaning to everyone else why because your mobility is only important to you.


you have now changed your whole point from mobility is the most important to i am sad i am losing the least important part of my job.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Good for you, you edited your post because you were actually incorrect about it. And again, if we can do ALL those things, and still do DPS, then why is that an issue? If the healer has downtime because of low heals, then why not throw out some deeps too? You'll have a Bard on the move making deeps, and a healer doing deeps. Got all the deeps. That's better!

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Yep I did correct myself before even reading your post because I wasn't thinking of every single little encounter I've experienced, otherwise you have nothing special about being able to reach a tube sweetie.

So what you're saying is if a DPS DoT class who over time does damage can kite as well as a physical DPS

1)Who can move and attack.

2)doesn't completely do over time damage to do the majority of their DPS

3)doesn't rely on a pet that can die to do half their DPS

4)has songs to increase DPS for others

5)restore MP/TP along with now also block out negative effects the next turn that can potentially save healers time from esuna'ing which is being fixed for our convenience to be more useful and work properly?

then we should definitely be able to do more DPS outside of Wanderer's to reach theirs?


First off; Of course smn or any other job is sacrificing to move just to perform their mechanics but it doesn't make you special because you can move when a job with a higher dps can take your place while that SMN gives up only some of theirs so yeah, I'd say your songs are a pretty big deal and no I don't think we should do more out of WM with all of that.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

seriously your only argument revolves around *it says i am a dps*

your most valuable feature is your songs. if damage was the important part they would take someone who did more but it doesn't matter.

why? because without songs the whole raid fails.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Oqq0npY1M

I JUST typed this into google and found it; it was THAT easy.

The people who only say we are worth our songs have far too much dependance on them. Fights can be done without them, fights can be done without us. Might he harder, might be easier, but the fact remains those songs don't set anything in stone. AS a DPS we still have the objective of helping to maintain a party-wide average of damage to actually push and complete a fight. If enrage timers didn't exist DPS wouldn't be needed at all. Just tanks and healers could do everything. But they can't, they need DPS. And as DPS they need our damage more than anything else.

That we provide insurance and mechanics that help smooth out longer fights is good, but we still need to manage our natural role.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Yep I did correct myself before even reading your post because I wasn't thinking of every single little encounter I've experienced, otherwise you have nothing special about being able to reach a tube sweetie.

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Be as patronizing all you want, honeymuffins, but you haven't really countered my claims with anything but "Oh, well someone else can do it. Not as well as you, but they can." and I'm waiting for reasoning why it's better for them to do it than us.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i see the whole picture.

*i play bard so i can run and shoot*

guess what? it doesn't matter. people don't care that you can run and shoot they care for your songs.

your mobility has no meaning to everyone else why because your mobility is only important to you.


you have no changed your whole point from mobility is the most important to i am sad i am losing the least important part of my job.

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You don't see the whole picture.

Mobility means a lot for the team, not just songs. It's the only way we can maintain acceptable DPS with our low damage.

Without maintaining sufficient DPS as a DPS class, we will only cause the party to fail DPS checks.

Low damage is the price we have to pay for having mobility and songs, so without mobility, there is no meaning to Bards.

If you truly see the whole picture and/or knew how to play Bards, you'd realize this easily.


EDIT:

As someone above me has said, if a Bard doesn't use songs, a fight can still be won.

If a Bard fails to maintain acceptable DPS, then the entire party can be placed in peril from DPS checks.

In the end, Bards HAVE to prioritize DPS over songs since they still consume a DPS slot. And right now, we need our mobility to accomplish that.

Hey Folks...Musha is a troll, and it has effectively derailed the conversation for a few pages now. Ignore the Troll.

Maybe we could give Archers the job they appear to be looking for? An actual ranged TP-using DPS job? Maybe make Bard a separate job you can unlock.. and give it a Harp as a weapon? :P

Seriouslyyy SE, I had a feeling this was going to happen waaaay back when the jobs were announced. Archer getting Bard instead of Hunter.. hmm.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

If you truly see the whole picture and/or knew how to play Bards, you'd realize this easily.

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songs. bam meaning to bards.

mobility is something you specifically want.

you can still deal damage without moving. blm's do it just fine. you can too.

stop pretending you have to run around 90% of the fight. if you had to blms would be kicked from raids.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Oqq0npY1M

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congrats going to t13 in full bis lets you do the fight easily.

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Originally Posted by Temjiu

Hey Folks...Musha is a troll, and it has effectively derailed the conversation for a few pages now. Ignore the Troll.

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awww thanks for the recognition <3

but seriously i am a troll because bards lose something that is only important to bards that only play the job for mobility?

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Originally Posted by Yellow

Maybe we could give Archers the job they appear to be looking for? An actual ranged TP-using DPS job? Maybe make Bard a separate job you can unlock.. and give it a Harp as a weapon? :P

Seriouslyyy SE, I had a feeling this was going to happen waaaay back when the jobs were announced. Archer getting Bard instead of Hunter.. hmm.

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It really has created a god awful conflicted mess, hasn't it? Should just make us Rangers then slap together something with a rapier or something snazzy and give them a harp, lol. Hell I can roll up my old Bard from a pathfinder years ago and think of something. Sounds fun, really.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

congrats going to t13 in full bis lets you do the fight easily.

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Doesn't deny they did it. Maybe you just need to look to yourself then if all they needed to do was go full BiS.