I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

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Originally Posted by Illya

Your understanding is faulty unless you think the more accurate representation is the one which leaves out important plot points which are otherwise present and made explicitly understood in 3 other languages. This game is only officially available in 4 languages, so I'll let you contemplate which is more likely: 1 language is "wrong" and 3 are "right", OR 3 languages are "wrong" and only 1 is "right". Note: Occam's Razor probably applies here.

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I didn't say one was right or wrong.

People will defend things blindly in favor of not believe in that in any case what so ever they are wrong even though the evidence is clearly otherwise.


My criticism remains that the English Localization deviates too far from every other language base, including the, yes, original Japanese text, pulled from the game client.

People can chose to attempt to defend this in a vain attempt to appear more intelligent or more 'in league' with the Localization team then they actually are. Their opinions are not my concern - this content is. I do not agree with the course of the Localization team making this far a deviant from the rest of the FFXIV world, period. No excuses of high-mindless, literary stylization or convoluted lore constructs is going to change how far the literary direction deviates in fact, and the implication of further mistranslated text this raises.

I restate my request to Koji and the rest of the Localization team to use caution when taking stylistic liberties. 'Style' can be done without obscuring the story's direction or meaning.

And anyone who says it does not, is bluntly and rudely dismissing every individual that disagrees with them. The fact that this is even a debate proves otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Delily

The only strawman there is her last quote. Her other points still stand. There is no lead lore person who writes the scripts and passes it to the translators. They develop it together. Did you read the post in the Lore forums? He created a language for the dragons, got the script from the Japanese team, and decided to improve on it. The only difference between the two translations is the sense of things working out in the end. Our version leaves us hanging.

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And unless the original intent is to leave us hanging, that just creates holes and inconsistencies to crop up later. We already have this happening in several other places in the game.
If you make sweeping changes, that's more stuff you need to track of. FFXIV isn't a one-and-done story, so I'd think that would be good reason not to go too crazy and make such sweeping changes.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

You're just the queen of strawman responses, aren't you?

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I answered your question. The fact that you try to distract from that while simultaneously accusing me of straw-manning is pretty funny though.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

My criticism remains that the English Localization deviates too far from every other language base, including the, yes, original Japanese text, pulled from the game client.

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1) Whatever among the Japanese text is "original" you have no way of knowing.

2) The deviations were all completely approved by the top lore officials that handle such things. Arguing with what the EN localization team has produced is arguing with what the highest authorities over the matter have approved.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

People will defend things blindly in favor of not believe in that in any case what so ever they are wrong even though the evidence is clearly otherwise.

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What? "You're wrong you can't disagree with me." I see there is a difference, I do not care there is a difference - I don't like reading dialog that is "you're 4, you need to be told exactly what is happening". You cannot say people shan't blindly dismiss those who disagree or be wrong, and then blindly dismiss those who disagree with yourself.

Yes it was changed far enough for things not to be known facts (but still adequately piece-able), does not mean I don't prefer it to be that way.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

I answered your question. The fact that you try to distract from that while simultaneously accusing me of straw-manning is pretty funny though.

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I'm not distracting from anything. I simply lost interest in discussing anything with you after the last line of that original post of yours (wicked little translators, etc). I probably shouldn't have even bothered to post that.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

People will defend things blindly in favor of not believe in that in any case what so ever they are wrong even though the evidence is clearly otherwise.

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Really? What evidence is that?

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My criticism remains that the English Localization deviates too far from every other language base, including the, yes, original Japanese text, pulled from the game client. /

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As has been pointed out several times, the "original" Japanese text is not the master version of the story.

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People can chose to attempt to defend this in a vain attempt to appear more intelligent or more 'in league' with the Localization team then they actually are. Their opinions are not my concern - this content is. I do not agree with the course of the Localization team making this far a deviant from the rest of the FFXIV world, period. No excuses of high-mindless, literary stylization or convoluted lore constructs is going to change how far the literary direction deviates in fact, and the implication of further mistranslated text this raises.

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Ad hominen fallacy. Some of us prefer the English version to the Japanese version. Are you aware that many of the fairy tales we grew up with exist in radically different forms in other countries? Same concept, same key points, different delivery.

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I restate my request to Koji and the rest of the Localization team to use caution when taking stylistic liberties. 'Style' can be done without obscuring the story's direction or meaning.

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At the end of both scripts, Midgardsomr is following us around, clearly testing us, and we know Ishgard is about to come under siege from the dravians. The story was hardly changed.

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And anyone who says it does not, is bluntly and rudely dismissing every individual that disagrees with them. The fact that this is even a debate proves otherwise.

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Hi pot! Love, kettle.

First, I will call out the ad hominen fallacy right off. It is not the case that some of us are in vain, or that we are "in league" with the Localization team. It's that when presented with the Japanese version of the story and the English version, some of us prefer the English version. Second, your claim that the direction of the story has changed is wrong. In both versions, Midgardsomr states he has made a pact with Hydaelyn, that he is testing us, and that Ishgard is about to come under direct siege of the Dravians.

It doesn't matter if its translation or localization, the actions performed by the characters are written in the Japanese (original) text, if they keep changing the characters, personalities, intentions and information given to the players, the story will be affected later, causing inconsistency. You can't just make lore for one of the regions and adapt the story to this lore, this is bad, and it goes too far for what a localization is supposed to be, because localization must be creative, but not to this point, this kind of localization is more similar to the one made to Asian texts by the catholic scribes back in the middle ages.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

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You are taking the lore team words too seriously, there's an original text, and yes. they said they took some ideas form the localization teams to modify and improve the original, kudos to them, team work always gives better results, and a lot of brains work better than a few, but the original is still there, and it's Japanese, don't give the EN team more merit than they deserve.

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Originally Posted by Delily

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A lot of words to say nothing, all i can see is cliche and repeated responses with a lot of "we" that should be changed to "i".

I rarely if ever feel the need to post on the forums but I just had to chime in here on this one...

To anyone who feels that "the translation is fine as is", you're missing the point. I (and many others I assure you) want as close to the exact translation that the original content writer intended as possible. Those of us in this camp do not want some cooked up "dragonspeak" version of what some EN translator though would sound cooler or more dragon-like. This was clearly a case of someone (Fernewhales) attempting to be cute and doing more than what was called for and I'm sure that he will likely be reprimanded for it and told to refrain from this type of behavior in the future. There was simply too much material left out in his translation here or left to speculation and it is completely unacceptable.

P.S. Keep on fighting the good fight Hyrist! I couldn't agree more with everything you've said here in this topic!

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Originally Posted by Intaki

1) Whatever among the Japanese text is "original" you have no way of knowing.

2) The deviations were all completely approved by the top lore officials that handle such things. Arguing with what the EN localization team has produced is arguing with what the highest authorities over the matter have approved.

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1) You have no idea how localization works, do you? The script is originally drafted in the company native language then passed to the Loclization team for translation and adaptation to culture, so yes, origonal intent is drafted in Japanese.

2) Correct. I am. Critique and feedback is my right as a consumer. However, you do not represent these 'highest authorities', therefore, your word on the matter in their defense is both trite and unnecessary. My feedback is directed at them, not you, it is also phrased respectfully as a request, one that you have outright attacked me for.

Again, the fact that you prefer the deviation does not change the fact that the translation did deviate, in tone and meaning, to the other 3 languages, approved or otherwise. I, like others, do not approve of the deviation and made a public request for them not to continue it, as I feel it belittles the story as written by our three neighboring languages. I prefer the text as close to as the Japaneese writer intended given acceptance that there is some minor differences for culture and language.

Denying that these deviations exist in both content and tone when the evidence has been provided to the contrary is a veiled insult to the intelligence and hard work of the translator and a dismissal of all who followed along the displayed course of logic and agreed with it. There's a difference between preferring the translation, and the outright dismissal of facts. Please clarify where along those lines you stand if you're going to attempt to speak in defense of the translation team. However, be forewarned, I'm not interested in your opinion. I came to speak in support of the OP.