#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Culling healer anxiety is often brought up as an argument in favor of healers "accessible" design. If we agree that healers primary role is to heal, then making that baseline gameplay harder will affect new healers the most as it is the expectation of your party that you are responsible for their survival.

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I don't think this should be a reason not to make healing more challenging. Everyone was a new healer once. If you like the fantasy/gameplay you'll push through it.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Question: What do the Japanese players say about this topic?

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As pointed a few posts above, they don't care much about this issue. Their main issue is that there is next to no healer job identity in this game, which actually is more of a pressing issue to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Question: What do the Japanese players say about this topic?

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Go read their fourms, be polite if you engage. Some agree, some disagree. It'd be silly to think they have any sort of consensus either.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Question: What do the Japanese players say about this topic?

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Here's your answer:

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Originally Posted by Edmund_Blackadder

Some excerpts from the Japanese forum:

フィードバックは常に無視されてきたので黄金のレガシーでヒーラーに手が加えられることはない。初めてFF14でヒーラーをメインにプレイしない拡張パックになる
[Feedback has always been ignored, so healers will never be touched in Golden Legacy[Dawn Trail]. This is the first expansion pack for FF14 that doesn't focus on healers.]

この意見を支持するけど、これまでの方針を考えるとヒーラーに意味のある変更が加えられるのかわからない
[I support this opinion, but I'm not sure there will be any meaningful changes to healers given the current policy.]

ストライキをしているヒーラーのほとんどは絶をクリアしてないのではないか。高難易度ではヒーラーの役割はより重要になっている
[I think most of the healers who are on strike haven't cleared Zetsu [Ultimate]. The role of the healer becomes more important at higher difficulty levels.]

私はこれまでプレイしたほぼすべてのMMOでヒーラーとサポートをメインにしてきたが、FF14のヒーラーはおそらくその中で最悪の体験だ
I've been a healer/support main character in almost every MMO I've played, but FF14's healer experience is probably the worst of them all.

日本のフォーラムがこの意見に賛同しない限り、大きな変化は起こらないだろう
[No major changes will occur unless the Japanese forum agrees with this opinion.]

ヒーラーが失った過去の魔法を返してもらいたいです。紅蓮のリベレーターの頃からプレイしているが、白魔道士に範囲エアロがあったのを覚えている
[I want the healer to return the lost magic of the past. I've been playing since Crimson Liberator [Stormblood], and I remember White Mage having range aero.]

攻撃アビリティを増やし、GCD回復魔法にもっと重点を置いてください
[Increase attack abilities and put more emphasis on GCD recovery magic]


バランスについては気を使いすぎず、ジョブを楽しくすることだけに集中すべきだと思う
[I think you should not worry too much about balance and just focus on making the job fun.]

ヒーラーがいるだけで常にパーティ全体に30%のダメージ増加バフを付与できるというのはどう？
[How about being able to always give a 30% damage increase buff to the entire party just by having a healer?]

少なくとも放置型ガチャゲームよりは忙しい戦闘にしてほしい
[At least I want the battles to be more busy than idle gacha games.]

FF11の白魔道士は純粋なサポート/ヒーラーのジョブだった。白魔道士がすることは回復だけだったが、FF11はそれを中心に設計されていた。FF14では岩や光の玉を投げるだけ。このゲームは回復を中心に設計されていない
[White Mage in FF11 was a pure support/healer job. All White Mage did was heal, and FF11 was designed around that. In FF14, you just throw rocks and balls of light. This game is not designed around recovery[healing]]

昔は「難しすぎる」という声であふれていた。スクエニはプレイヤーのストレスを減らすようにしただけだ。今の状況は開発がプレイヤーの声を聴いた結果だと思っている
[In the past, there were many voices saying that it was "too difficult." Square Enix just tried to make it less stressful for players. I think the current situation is the result of the development team listening to the voices of players.]


Thank you AI for translation xD

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Originally Posted by Orbitaldoll

As pointed a few posts above, they don't care much about this issue. Their main issue is that there is next to no healer job identity in this game, which actually is more of a pressing issue to be honest.

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I mean job identity is pretty much a big need right for all roles - since everything is blobbing together for jobs.

So i take it unsubscribing isn't an option for this healer strike? I'm sure they'll pay attention if a large portion of healers all collectively unsub and stop playing and go support a different game.

Namely the people throwing this protest around, please unsub and go play something else.

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Originally Posted by Vhoxz

Here's a wild idea. If someone makes (a big) mistake, the group wipes. Yes even in a dungeon, not every situation should be recoverable.

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I think older fight design was more conducive to this, and today's design is partially why the 'problem' of non threatening bosses that can be solo'd easily by e.g. tanks aware of how to push mitigation buttons exists.

Starting with StB, bosses from normal dungeons through raids stopped punishing the group for a single players' errors, or often removed cases like 'a certain player or role must do a certain job or its a wipe.' This is on top of things that maybe used to exist such as DPS checks, overall enrage timers or tank positioning which used to be much more prevalent.

Allow me to compare bosses to explain what I mean:

Alexander's Gordias Fist of the Father, The Oppressor(s), when current, would wipe the group if at least one player didn't figure out that you had to kite the Alarum adds underneath the Hydraulic Missile and kill them there to shrink them.

Omega Deltascape v1.0, Alte Roite, would kill any individual player that could not manage to slide away from fireballs, and that's it. Everything else was pretty much just stack, unstack, heal AoE damage. If EVERYBODY failed at this, sure, eventually you might wipe when suddenly there's not enough bodies to allow rezzers to survive a stack (similar to arbitrary 8 player body checks but less extreme), but the whole fight is dodging. No extra puzzle for the group to solve.

This is true for pretty much all of StB normal raids, with the exceptions being o6 (Typhon to push a gust) and o7 (Bibliotaph circles), though these exceptions are extremely survivable if failed, they just make it bit harder. Even o11 has the looper circles that apply damage down to the whole group if one is missed, but the major penalty is applied to the player that missed it in the form of Hysteria likely resulting running into a death wall.

Dungeons themselves have more pass fail mechanics too, ranging from screwing your teammates over with poorly baited Heavensflames leaving no room to dodge chess knights/break chains (Ser Charibert in the Vault) to second boss of Bardam's Mettle where if one player knows how to dodge you almost can't wipe.

They moved away from design that may mess up others in your group outside of stack/unstack markers (probably why they show up so much; they REALLY want to make sure your know what they look like) and as a result had to include more 'dodge everything' type fights.

Well, if the one person in your group that can heal and raise can't dodge everything, more friction would occur in a typical group.

To ease this, they could add more ways to restore HP to other roles, or reduce unavoidable damage (fewer raid wides, auto attacks, 'untelegraphed' attacks), for starters.

They did both, and they keep doing the first option every expansion because players obviously like getting new buttons.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

I mean job identity is pretty much a big need right for all roles - since everything is blobbing together for jobs.

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Yep, that's been the biggest drawback with the core mechanic designs of FFXIV. Healers just suffer a lot more due to a very limited rotation where the job identity issue becomes even more glaring.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

So i take it unsubscribing isn't an option for this healer strike? I'm sure they'll pay attention if a large portion of healers all collectively unsub and stop playing and go support a different game.

Namely the people throwing this protest around, please unsub and go play something else.

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Unsubbing is not a valid option for most because they still want to play the game. Most wont even do the strike, they will still play healer while a few will switch to dps. Most FFXIV players dont look at the forums or reddit so this strike wont be felt in game. However what it is meant to do is bring attention to constructive healer feedback that have been ignored for years.

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Originally Posted by Al4th

Hi. I'm a Japanese player.
I'm not perfect at speaking English, so I'm using a translation tool. Sorry if the sentences are incorrect.
Also, please understand that this is my personal opinion, not the consensus of Japanese healers.

First of all, when I looked at the JP forum, I was very surprised to see so many complaints about healers.
Of course, I'm not saying that there are no complaints, but the problem discussed in Japan is mainly that "the identity of the four healer jobs is lost."
I don't see many complaints about WAR and PLD having separate healing abilities and therefore losing the role of healers.
(There are sometimes complaints that spamming one attack skill is boring, but it doesn't seem to be considered such a big problem)

Hardcore players are always thinking about optimizing oGCD heals in Extreme, Savage, and Ultimate, and using the GCD gained by doing so for as many attacks as possible to ensure that they can defeat the enemy.
I also play Extreme, Savage, and Ultimate, and I generally agree with hardcore players.

Also, some players fear failure if the role of healer becomes important. This is a tendency often seen in people who play DF Roulette casually, and it is a mindset that many Japanese people have.
Such people have no qualms about spending GCD on healing, and always prioritize fully filling other players' health. They believe that by doing so, they are fulfilling their role as a healer.
Therefore, I feel that there are few Japanese players who think that "healer's job is being taken away."

However, few people deny the issue raised here. If there is content that increases the difficulty of healing and makes the healer role more rewarding, there are players who want to try it.
It has to be content that is difficult for any healer job. For example, there was a time when there was a widespread tendency not to want to use WHM in RF or PF because AST's Macro Cosmos is most effective in the third circle (Savage), but I don't think that's a good thing. I don't want to see healer jobs that can't be performed well eliminated due to the individual characteristics of the healer job.
If these problems are solved, I would like the mechanism to make the healer role more rewarding, and I feel the same way.

Sorry if it's hard to read.
Thank you.

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First of, thanks for taking the extra effort to reach out to us across the language barrier.

It is interesting to see your opinion on this as well as your take on the Japanese Community and their stance on this topic.

And I for one do agree on that we should not neglect the fact that Healers should both feel distinct from each other in their gameplay, while also being close enough to each other in over all capabilities they are not a hinderance in any fight compared to bringing any other healer.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

So i take it unsubscribing isn't an option for this healer strike? I'm sure they'll pay attention if a large portion of healers all collectively unsub and stop playing and go support a different game.

Namely the people throwing this protest around, please unsub and go play something else.

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This goes back to another point I made earlier, but unsubscribing doesn't change the issue at hand. All SE will see is -1 customer, while switching voluntarily from healer to any other job becomes -1 healer, +1 tank/dps. Then again, people want to play FFXIV, but healer role is in dire need of fixing, whatever it takes.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

This goes back to another point I made earlier, but unsubscribing doesn't change the issue at hand. All SE will see is -1 customer, while switching voluntarily from healer to any other job becomes -1 healer, +1 tank/dps. Then again, people want to play FFXIV, but healer role is in dire need of fixing, whatever it takes.

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"Wow, people really must want to play the new DPS classes" - Square Enix.

There has to be a white line somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

So i take it unsubscribing isn't an option for this healer strike? I'm sure they'll pay attention if a large portion of healers all collectively unsub and stop playing and go support a different game.

Namely the people throwing this protest around, please unsub and go play something else.

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https://i.gyazo.com/0e0f7f10a313dc7b...85b06c8f64.jpg

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

There has to be a white line somewhere.

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If you can't see the white line, that just means you can't Esuna it.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

If you can't see the white line, that just means you can't Esuna it.

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Which means you cant stun it either. Darn.

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Originally Posted by Vhoxz

Here's a wild idea. If someone makes (a big) mistake, the group wipes. Yes even in a dungeon, not every situation should be recoverable.

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Man, now I'm sad. I don't even remember when I last had a full dungeon wipe. They used to be commonplace when I started playing this game.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

This goes back to another point I made earlier, but unsubscribing doesn't change the issue at hand. All SE will see is -1 customer, while switching voluntarily from healer to any other job becomes -1 healer, +1 tank/dps. Then again, people want to play FFXIV, but healer role is in dire need of fixing, whatever it takes.

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Square has ignored healers since last 5 years almost. It is no surprise that they operate on a very textbook corporate mentality where they will only react once their "numbers" take a certain dip. I know unsubbing is a very crude method of getting a point across, especially since more people join the fray with every new expansion while being completely oblivious of core issues. But, at this point? What can you do.

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Originally Posted by Orbitaldoll

Square has ignored healers since last 5 years almost. It is no surprise that they operate on a very textbook corporate mentality where they will only react once their "numbers" take a certain dip. I know unsubbing is a very crude method of getting a point across, especially since more people join the fray with every new expansion while being completely oblivious of core issues. But, at this point? What can you do.

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What can I do? Personally, I enjoy other aspects of the game, like crafting/gathering. The game doesn't revolve entirely around battle content, and if I do that, I usually play tank/dps anyway. I like playing all jobs, even if healers are borderline lazy design.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Man, now I'm sad. I don't even remember when I last had a full dungeon wipe. They used to be commonplace when I started playing this game.

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I got two wipes from two different healers while leveling my Ninja in Stone Vigil earlier this year. Healer just simply was out of it/ not paying attention. It takes a REALLY bad healer to wipe, and also a lower level dungeon given the higher level ones are too easy.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

So i take it unsubscribing isn't an option for this healer strike? I'm sure they'll pay attention if a large portion of healers all collectively unsub and stop playing and go support a different game.

Namely the people throwing this protest around, please unsub and go play something else.

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We will not unsub and we will keep posting in the forum with the forum privileges afforded to subscribed players in addition to enjoying Dawntrail as tanks and dps. Please click with your mouse to exit the thread if you don't like reading healers' feedback directed to Square Enix.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

What can I do? Personally, I enjoy other aspects of the game, like crafting/gathering. The game doesn't revolve entirely around battle content, and if I do that, I usually play tank/dps anyway. I like playing all jobs, even if healers are borderline lazy design.

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I play all the classes, every battle content. One becomes boring, I switch to other and then I find things to be both giddy and nitpicky about. Much like how a lot of ARR healers switched to DPS by Stormblood (some didn't even last that long). The now empty healer spot gets occupied by a much ambitious sprout. And the cycle continues. Doesn't really solve the issue in the end.

Personally I dont think this strike will change much either, but Square really needs to conjure some major design decisions rather than playing "next expansion" card.

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

I don't think I've posted in this thread yet, but I guess I got into the topic from another thread, so here's my take:

1. The Healer DPS rotation is brain-dead. Does it need to be expanded or made harder? I don't necessarily think so. Why? Because if healers had to heal and weren't stuck pressing 111111, their DPS tools wouldn't be an issue.

2. I don't think WAR or tanks in general are the problem. Like it was said above, don't take away other people's fun. Self-healing is what WAR does. If these tools were taken away from them and replaced with simple mitigation - that's just homogenising the tanks. Similarly I don't think self-healing is universally better than mitigation - they both have cases where they shine. Rebalancing tanks to bring them more in line might be needed, but that doesn't really concern healer issues.

3. Tanks and in fact the whole group needs to take more damage than what they themselves can heal or mitigate. DPS specifically should take more damage, as right now the only way they can be damaged is stacks, raid-wides and their own mistakes. Those are all fight design issues.

4. Healing aside, healers uniquely have Esuna - but it is entirely underused. If bosses applied DoTs or DMG-downs or Dooms, etcs, which no one but healers could deal with, that would resolve most all issues healers have. Example how a simple DoT could be handled in 4 different ways, one for reach healer:
-SGE would have to apply a special shield to be consumed by the DoT instead of the player's health. This would be an unique skill and DoTs could bypass any other shields.
-WHM could counter the DoT by outhealing it with a more powerful, but more mana-costly version of Regen.
-SCH would have an upgraded version of Esuna, which uniquely could dispell the DoT.
-AST, having seen the future, would have to preemptively apply a buff, which automatically consumed and removed the DoT when it is applied. This wouldn't work on a DoT already present.

There are countless ways healer gameplay could be spiced up without touching other job's toolkits.

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I hate to break it you and other people who are against nerfing sustain on other roles, but it's a party based game, and tanks are known to use their sustain to grief other people. That's not to mention that their sustain is an existential problem for classes whose main job is healing. The game is designed so any job is viable and any job is playable, that doesn't mean the jobs need to have identical levels of mitigation/healing/dps. And this is evidence by existing skills-- Manawall on BLM serves mitigation purpose but you don't see them soloing down a boss do you? NO you don't. So please spare me the "don't touch other roles". When a WHM, DNC, BLM, etc are soloing down bosses because the rest of the party wiped, then I will want to hear about the tank sustain is fairly balanced as it is now.

Another hard truth, all of the calls for incoming damage to be enhanced are never going to happen. Nor should it happen to overcompensate for an egregious job imbalance you just don't want to stare in the face.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

We will not unsub and we will keep posting in the forum with the forum privileges afforded to subscribed players in addition to enjoying Dawntrail as tanks and dps. Please click with your mouse to exit the thread if you don't like reading healers' feedback directed to Square Enix.

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Stuff like this makes me think this whole thing is not serious even though I agree with the points made.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

No one expects changes by 7.0. We understand changes take time, especially when they have been baked into the design for 4+ years.

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To be fair. As I've said in other posts. I been around a long time. Healers seem to be their Achilles heel and I'm not sure they will every do them justice.

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Originally Posted by Local_Custard

huh funny you say that because I was unsubbed for a time (not on purpose- that is how long my laptop was out of commission. My laptop has since then been working very nicely.) and could not post on the forums. So you may want to review what you say before spreading misinformation.

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Funny thing was, I was away for a couple of weeks recently and couldn't log in. When I came back it took ages for the forums to realise I had logged into the game. So despite being subbed, I couldn't use the forum. They're "technically right" in that the forum doesn't care for sub, it cares for game activity. But because game activity requires a sub, it still means the forum requires the sub.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

To be fair. As I've said in other posts. I been around a long time. Healers seem to be their Achilles heel and I'm not sure they will every do them justice.

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Then they can expect people to keep complaining ,which doesn't help the game in any way. In fact, people complaining and some eventually giving up on it only hurts it. Not only because x person unsubs, but because if x person was actually satisfied, they'd probably actively recruit other people to play the game as well over however many years. That's why you shouldn't just assume your players will always be there and shouldn't treat them as disposable. But SE seems allergic to keeping any of their IP as profitable as possible lately, including the MMO segment.

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Originally Posted by Orbitaldoll

I play all the classes, every battle content. One becomes boring, I switch to other and then I find things to be both giddy and nitpicky about. Much like how a lot of ARR healers switched to DPS by Stormblood (some didn't even last that long). The now empty healer spot gets occupied by a much ambitious sprout. And the cycle continues. Doesn't really solve the issue in the end.

Personally I dont think this strike will change much either, but Square really needs to conjure some major design decisions rather than playing "next expansion" card.

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It's what I do too, constantly switch jobs so I can keep myself busy. This thread has appeared in some articles already (even a Japanese one) but I do agree things won't change, and I don't think they will until 8.0. SCH and AST are still my favorite, the latter very much so because of its busy system with the cards, I'm not sure whether I'll feel the same in DT though.

But the cycle will continue forever, see, new sprouts become main healers until they notice something's "off" and realize it's just the endless 1 button spam. With DT and additional DPS buttons to healers, it's clear they're shifting away from healing to green DPS with mitigation type of support.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

You all would just rather blow up the forums and keep a sub to continue complaining even before the actual expansion is out. That's the key thing to me. The expansion isn't out. None of you have had the ability to try it to see if changes make sense or not.

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ShB came out 5 years ago actually, those are the changes we're complaining about, Dawntrail is just more of the same so we won't be playing Healers,

you're also "blowing up the forums" by continously bumping the thread and keeping it at the top, that's how a forum works, we didn't sign a pact with Zodiark to force the front page to acknowledge us.

When more than half the appeal of your game comes from exploring new jobs and their related storylines, yet the core mechanics rob jobs of their identities in PVE. Frankly, at this point, might as well bring back cross class skills.

I just want to clarify for the "just unsub" people that we are here in this thread because we enjoy the game. This game has a comprehensive feature list outside of healing, afterall.

Some of us even still like healing, but want to give feedback to make it more enjoyable.

Unsubbing isn't the only way to send a message.

I also hesitate at the conflation of trying to be heard with just simple malcontent complaining. Especially when every other avenue of providing feedback has failed.

As an aside, most people in this thread have been rather calm in their discussion, and Gemina's OP set a nice tone of what we are going for here.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I want to point out that each one of these content creators with the exception of Zepla oppose the strike. Some even go as far as to try and make us feel silly and childish about it. All of them more or less believe that the strike won't work (mind you under false pretenses why we chose to do it). Yet, every single one of them end up conceding that the issues laid out in the manifesto are true and agree that there are real problems with the role and the simplicity of content.

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Sorry Gemina, for some of the content creators were not exactly supportive. I should have listed on there that many don't agree with the strike but, they are talking about it, and also agreeing that there are problems within the trinity system.

My goal for the links, (Which can be found on page 299, and 300.) was to help keep the doors open to new ideas, criticisms, keeping an open mind on how the community feels, and wants for this game. Yes, there are plenty of naysayers, de-railers, memes, and straight up bullies presented in each of these links. This, however, is just a part of online culture, as much as I don't like it. However, in the midst of all of that; there are new people being introduced to this topic. They are asking genuine questions, and voicing their concerns.

It's very difficult to sift through the negativity, but these conversations are quite important. If anything, the strike will fail; but it would succeed in creating a community wide discussion; and that is a very good thing. Even if people don't have solutions; it is good to know that they are in agreement that there is a problem.

Whatever the developers put out will hopefully be a step in the right direction. Just know that no matter what choice they do; a group of players will be really upset because the healers in this community are quite divided on how they want to use their kits. That is why every reddit thread and every official forum thread regarding healers are bloated with replies.

I hope more conversations will happen across multiple platforms.This will be my last reply in this thread. I noticed we are past 300 pages and counting fast. Only a few eyes will reach these deep end conversations. My links got buried under 2 pages due to people fighting with each other within 10 minutes of posting them, so this isn't really a good place to provide information anymore.

Enjoy Dawntrail everyone.
Take care.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Stuff like this makes me think this whole thing is not serious even though I agree with the points made.

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I disagree, since the objective was always to not play healers in group content and that's what we are doing. It was the opposing side who created the misconception that we should unsub. Yet this strike got lots of people commenting in this thread despite them never having commented in any of the feedback threads that have accumulated in the healer forum. Looks like it's working exactly as intended. Unsubbing has never had this kind of effect, although I'm open to changing my mind if someone can link a 300+ page thread and media coverage that were sparked by healers announcing their sub cancellations.

"You're not serious", "you're cowards", "you should unsub", "you keep giving them money", "this is sad and pathetic", "you don't play hard content" and other fallacies will not stop us from rightfully complaining about healer design.

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Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments that are fallacious. Often nowadays this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

First of, thanks for taking the extra effort to reach out to us across the language barrier.

It is interesting to see your opinion on this as well as your take on the Japanese Community and their stance on this topic.

And I for one do agree on that we should not neglect the fact that Healers should both feel distinct from each other in their gameplay, while also being close enough to each other in over all capabilities they are not a hinderance in any fight compared to bringing any other healer.

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Thank you. I'm glad you welcomed me so warmly.
I often refer to EN players' playstyles for inspiration, so I'm happy to learn what EN players think about healers, and I find this topic very interesting.

I hope everyone's heartfelt wishes reach Square and YoshiP.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

So i take it unsubscribing isn't an option for this healer strike? I'm sure they'll pay attention if a large portion of healers all collectively unsub and stop playing and go support a different game.

Namely the people throwing this protest around, please unsub and go play something else.

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Nah, I'm more than happy to contribute to the increase in queue times for dps (and tanks).

Hopefully there will be enough of a healer shortage that it takes 3-4 hours to find a single healer like it did during Abyssos Savage.

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

Sometimes I feel some of you live in a different reality. What do you mean grief? When the boss is nearly dead and the tank gives it their all to try and kill it, so the rest of the party doesn't have to waste 10 more mins redoing the fight?

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"Nearly dead"? Depending on the tank they can down a given boss from 30%, 50%, perhaps more if comments I've read are accurate, wasting up to 25 mins of other people's time. I base this on my own experiences, posts in this thread, posts in other threads, youtube and reddit comments, as well as tweets. It's a well agreed upon thing. You can minimize it by saying they're doing some innocuous service, that isn't what other people are observing including tanks in this very thread who have admitted they do it for a power fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

And why did the rest of the party wipe? Failed mechanics or healers failing to heal? Why did the tanks survive a damage event that's killed everyone else? - Mitigation. Mitigation reduced the damage that would KO you. Self sustain is worthless if you're dead.

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It's the combo of mitigation and healing that keeps them immortal, obviously. It's the "good enough" DPS that allows them to finish the job.

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

In my post I did address tanks needing to be balanced between each other, but like I said that's not a healer issue is it? It's like saying "nerf BLM damage, because they kill the boss too fast and I don't get enough opportunities to heal!"

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You can call it whatever you want. As far as BLM killing a boss fast, that's actually quite true (BLM is on the higher end of potential DPS in a boss fight is what I mean). But they can't do it without a tank and a healer. BLM is balanced within the game, certain tanks are not.

The simple fact is, people are invoking ridiculous, disruptive, and complex solutions like modifying damage output across the entire game just because a couple of jobs are imbalanced. People aren't asking for a WAR to have zero healing or even less mitigation or anything crazy (outside some fringe cases), they just need to balanced slightly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

"nerf BLM damage, because they kill the boss too fast and I don't get enough opportunities to heal!"

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DPS being able to kill bosses too quickly is a common complaint actually (ie. the scales you'll never see anymore) and if BLM doing disproportionately high damage was the cause (it's not, it's ilvl) you almost certainly would see nerfs,

damage between jobs is actually the one thing they obsessively balance, I have no idea how this is supposed to be an argument

I'm here to support this thread. Let the healer heal!

I've been subbed to the game since late ARR and I've been a support main for all the cooperative games I've played including pushing high m+ in wow. I don't spend a lot of time here on the forums although I read through the healer megathread at the beginning of EW that basically said all the same things. I'd already resolved to move on to a DPS job for Dawntrail because healing is not very engaging with the way the game is designed. It's been an issue ever since they started stripping scholar of all their dps buttons and has only gotten more pronounced.

I wouldn't mind having a simple dps rotation if I was busy healing, but there isn't much requirement for it. I don't play high end content in ff because I mostly come here to relax. I've always said if I want hard content, I have wow for that. Because I don't find the healing engaging, I mostly play the game for story and non battle content. I would love to see healing become more engaging somehow. I'm open to developer experimentation to find out what that looks like.

The one thing that I really liked when I read it was whoever said, "why do tanks have a dps rotation?" Truly, they only need a "get threat" aoe button and single target. Since we've also removed all the threat management in the game, mobs should just do a check for a tank aura and never hit anyone else as long as it's up. Give tanks 50 mitigation buttons and a taunt and a two button damage rotation and see how long before they get mad and go on strike.

I definitely intend to level my first healer of the expansion for raiding through roulettes with friends/WT/FL. Plenty of ways to do it without crossing the picket line, tbh, even without needing to do solo content or anything else.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

And yet the thread is full of supporters who've cleared Savage, some even Ultimate. The argument is about wanting healer gameplay to always be fun. Not only fun when grinding the hardest content in the game.

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But taking that into account makes arguing in bad faith way harder, they can't do that!