Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

I've said it in another thread, but I want to see more Male Midlander Facial hair options. Mustache, beard, 5 o'clock shadow. The works.

I like a lot of the Highlander options, and I don't know what makes making good options for us middie folk so hard, but I'd like to see it happen. /fingerscrossed

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Originally Posted by faiarrow

So no, sorry, not agreeing they "finished femroe." Smoothing out faces to the point of unrecognizability does not make a fix.

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You don't need to apologize if you preferred the older style when I prefer the current. It just really drove me insane to see that uniquely crunchy upper lip on the face option I liked with every variant, and it stuck there after several upgrades to my hardware.

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Originally Posted by MoonNoire

https://i.imgur.com/af5SXsH.jpeg

I know they haven't fixed the eyelids.
I just know.

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So, did this eyelid glitch only impact races prior to DT? Because hrothgals don't have this issue..I am assuming it's because we are new and are models are excluded from all graphical updates/tweaks because we never needed them. And that is awful. Scary.

Another patch is coming, and I still very dearly miss how my character looked in 6.58. I found an old portrait and managed to recreate it and oof... Her expression looked kinder, her eyes and mouth were wider and her scales were cream-colored. I miss my FemRa Face 2 from pre-DT... :<

https://i.imgur.com/zQh8CHp.png

My bug from one year ago is still in the Accepted pile and I still hold on hope for some changes, but dang...

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Originally Posted by Asteri

Another patch is coming, and I still very dearly miss how my character looked in 6.58. I found an old portrait and managed to recreate it and oof... Her expression looked kinder, her eyes and mouth were wider and her scales were cream-colored. I miss my FemRa Face 2 from pre-DT... :<

https://i.imgur.com/zQh8CHp.png

My bug from one year ago is still in the Accepted pile and I still hold on hope for some changes, but dang...

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As a fellow Face 2 Au Ra, I'm happy to see your report was moved to Accepted Bugs! I too really miss my WoL's mouth and smile :(

They did not, in fact, fix the eyelids.
But hey, hats (unironically super happy oh my god finally and it looks like they didn't half ass it)

Not even going to bother with a gif this time, nothing has changed again.

Also, I love the new bangs showing on the hoods! What did I even expect if my bangs are erased when I try to wear normal hats...?

https://i.imgur.com/9HKL6B9.png

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Ironic that the expansion that gave us Smile also made smiles look so horrible.

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I find it more ironic that one of their talking points at the beginning was "better detailed expressions" (or however they exactly phrased it) and yet they can't even figure out how to recreate the ones we had before.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

So, did this eyelid glitch only impact races prior to DT? Because hrothgals don't have this issue..I am assuming it's because we are new and are models are excluded from all graphical updates/tweaks because we never needed them. And that is awful. Scary.

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Its a 7.2 issue, exclusively. Likely due to them attempting to make the changes that people keep trying to give feedback on, ironically.

I think it's possible the talking animation have been adjusted. I haven't been able to confirm everything that I can remember yet but it seems less uncanny. If that has truly been adjusted, thank you.

Edit: Maybe? It is hard to tell since I haven't used it in gpose since the update. The teeth still looks odd, like dentures.

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Originally Posted by Asteri

Another patch is coming, and I still very dearly miss how my character looked in 6.58. I found an old portrait and managed to recreate it and oof... Her expression looked kinder, her eyes and mouth were wider and her scales were cream-colored. I miss my FemRa Face 2 from pre-DT... :<

https://i.imgur.com/zQh8CHp.png

My bug from one year ago is still in the Accepted pile and I still hold on hope for some changes, but dang...

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I also really miss the old aura 2 face. The new one is pretty too but it's a whole different person. Did the patch fix something?

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Originally Posted by Argantaelle

(a very long list)

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Ok, the graphical corrections are still minimal, but SE finally decided to do at least something; it's a plus (also let's not forget that I had to wait for more than a year to see those corrections). As usual, my feedback concerns Au Ra males, mostly face 2.

I made a long list back then (the post I'm replying to), so let's check it out.

1. Hair
Hair hasn't changed; players still don't have a true black option; the black is diluted with blue strands of hair.

https://i.imgur.com/ULdmjtU.png

2. Eyebrows
Changes for the better are definitely made, even though some of the EW eyebrows haven't been recreated faithfully (for example, eyebrows 6 lost their small curve between the eyes). Eyebrows 1, 4, and 5 are good.

The eyebrow placement is the other matter entirely. Some of the eyebrows are placed so low that they lose their curve if you look the character straight in the eyes (type 2, type 3). It seems like the curved part is hidden by the brow ridge. But if you tilt the camera slightly up, the curve is there.

It's a step in the right direction, but it would be great to adjust the eyebrow placement also.

a. Front (eyebrows type 2)

https://i.postimg.cc/vmqJR6HT/front.png

b. Bottom-up (eyebrows type 2)

https://i.postimg.cc/wxsSPMKx/up.png

c. Reference (comparison of EW - 7.0 - 7.3 eyebrows)

1.
https://i.postimg.cc/137xz9Lp/eyebrows-1.png

2.
https://i.postimg.cc/mggfRc6L/eyebrows-2.png

3.
https://i.postimg.cc/fTKn67Cq/eyebrows-3.png

4.
https://i.postimg.cc/TPKzLz6B/eyebrows-4.png

5.
https://i.postimg.cc/43jrzW4y/eyebrows-5.png

6.
https://i.postimg.cc/3Rpz92WB/eyebrows-6.png

It seems like eyebrows for other Au Ra male faces have been adjusted too (at least according to player feedback). Also, another of the Au Ra males pain points – the transparent light-haired eyebrows – has been addressed as well. These are good changes.


3. Lines under the eyebrow ridge
The lines are still there. It's how the face is sculpted now, but at least SE artists could have softened the line somehow (or even made the connecting surface between the brow ridge and the corner of the eye shorter and less pronounced, as it was in EW).

a. From the side

https://i.imgur.com/VOIHbVH.png

b. Front face

https://i.imgur.com/gM7Vxso.png

Do you see how faithfully the curved line of the EW eyebrows follows the brow ridge, which was unique for the Auri race? The new forehead was unified across many races (one more cause of so-called hyurification many non-human races went through). I guess it was difficult to combine the "hyurified" forehead with stylised Auri eyes; that's why this strange line appeared. The new forehead has become wider and heavier, and the eyebrows look out of place now. This is one of many examples of how the implementation of the unified polygon mesh made non-human races lose their unique traits.


4. Dark eyes
The eyes still look sleepy because of the darker iris; it's so dark that the pupils are almost indistinguishable. Because of these dark irises, the character's face is stuck in the perpetual rolling eyes animation. This issue is especially noticeable when looking at the 4th face.

a. EW and DT irises comparison:

https://i.imgur.com/gcIaurf.png

b. ...I roll my eyes so hard

https://i.imgur.com/TneIWYQ.png

5. Mouths
There haven't been any significant changes to mouths, but it seems like SE artists added small shadows to the mouth corners of the 1st face (to the most popular one, of course). They are much less pronounced than 6.8 shadows, but at least they help to make the face expression less one-dimensional.

Unfortunately, there haven't been any changes to the 2nd face mouth; they are still not what they used to be (and still ugly).

EW - DT comparison:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6497195

Mouth 2 in particular:

https://i.postimg.cc/g2ntRdXK/all-mouth.png

6. Raen scales
The scales are still dirty.

https://i.postimg.cc/j2bm1C7r/Scales-EW-DT.png

7. Smiles.
As far as I can see, the lower lip is still protruded and almost at the same level as the tip of the nose if you look at the character's head from the top when they are smiling or laughing. And yes, the smiles are still bad and get even worse when combined with lip movement.

Links to my previous posts.
Smiles: boys
Smiles: girls

The list of "smile" losers (all faces belong to male characters):

Midlanders: faces 4, 5, 6.
Highlanders: faces 1, 3.
Elezens: faces 1, 2 (to the lesser degree, but still U-shaped).
Roegadyns: faces 1, 4.
Au Ra: faces 1, 2, 4. The 3rd face has the best smile + lip movement combination, but still there is room for improvement. The 2nd and the 4th faces are the worst.
Viera: face 2.

Conclusion
It seems like SE did small, purely cosmetic adjustments without touching the face sculpts. The problem is that quite a lot of player dissatisfaction is tied to the universal polygon mesh problems: flat faces; cheeks and philtrums forming an upside-down triangle; badly animated mouths and jawlines. SE will have to do more drastic adjustments to the universal polygon mesh if they are going to get rid of creepy smiles (and dare I say – make their players less disappointed?).

Any changes to vieras? I'm stuck at work.

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Originally Posted by Cherrizini

Any changes to vieras? I'm stuck at work.

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I'm not able to grab photos right now, but unfortunately what I did notice was that F viera nose smudge has gotten a bit of a nerf. :(

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Originally Posted by Glitchima

I'm not able to grab photos right now, but unfortunately what I did notice was that F viera nose smudge has gotten a bit of a nerf. :(

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You mean the nose is not as dark as before? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Cherrizini

You mean the nose is not as dark as before? :confused:

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From what I was able to see before I had to log off, yeah, sadly :/ it seems like its a bit lighter now. I've no idea why they keep messing with this part of viera so much when there's so many more other, arguably more important things to figure out and fix, like the recent eyelid issue characters have been having... But alas

I’m one of the few who wanted it nerfed, especially on face 3. I just think it should be optional, since some Viera actually look great with the smudge. I'll try getting some pics later, but thank you for the reply!

Female middie eyebags on face 1 at least look so much better. T v T Finally!

Any Femroe face 2 changes? I updated the game but I can't log in till this evening to look.

I cant really see any changes at all to viera face four. Still a potato nose, still shitty eyeliner, still flat and overfilled lips.

No noticeable changes to male Seeker of the Sun Miqo'te, Face 4. Unsurprised, but always disappointed.

I noticed my female Duskwight Elezen, Face 1, saw some changes to the shape of her mouth and to the baked-in eye shadow this face had previously in 7.2. Below, I've manually edited the brightness/contrast of the screenshots for clarity, since these were the best I had on hand for a clear comparison. She's wearing lip color and face paint around the eyes, but I confirmed with the aesthetician that the baked-in eye shadow underneath has been removed. I did not play an Elezen prior to DT, so I can only assume they're correcting a mistake similar to the one they made with the male Duskwight faces being given Wildwood's dark circles, but I'm hardly the authority here. Regardless, I figured the differences were worth sharing.

https://i.imgur.com/cUPJOzE.png

And a gif for additional clarity:

https://i.imgur.com/ASE95qM.gif

Still no fix to the messed up eyebrows of F Miqo'te face 2. We're still furious about it in the Petition to fix it thread.

Anytime they add some nice updates to G-pose, I think about how I can't even use or enjoy that when any close up of my character's face has awful, angry dark lines for eyebrows.

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Originally Posted by Glitchima

From what I was able to see before I had to log off, yeah, sadly :/ it seems like its a bit lighter now. I've no idea why they keep messing with this part of viera so much when there's so many more other, arguably more important things to figure out and fix, like the recent eyelid issue characters have been having... But alas

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I noticed it immediately and was disgusted, so I turned back into a lala. It's my favorite part of Viera, looking more like animals rather than people. It's a fantasy game, with fantasy races, why play a human when you have access to way cooler races? Why would you want the cooler races to look more human? It's stupid and shows how vanilla people really are.

They are blury all over their bodies 50% of the time, depending on where your camera is.
Maybe also some smaller/slimmer, more to scale shoulders? Or at least have our gear not male roe model based when it comes to the shoulder pieces? The width of their shoulders in general, along with the size of the shoulder pieces when it comes to a lot of gear makes it really hard to get certain clothing to look flattering on them..

https://i.gyazo.com/6b6fb8a6d21c7204...4ad170299f.png

https://i.gyazo.com/8d521070c59015b0...e9fed34883.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/26bae45174eacffa...68c8150d6a.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/043c28df63254a1c...fc7936ff49.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/8071ac9c1aba0a0b...92b0e9b8b6.jpg

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Originally Posted by Princess-Raiju

They are blury all over their bodies 50% of the time, depending on where your camera is.
Maybe also some smaller/slimmer, more to scale shoulders? Or at least have our gear not male roe model based when it comes to the shoulder pieces? The width of their shoulders in general, along with the size of the shoulder pieces when it comes to a lot of gear makes it really hard to get certain clothing to look flattering on them..

https://i.gyazo.com/6b6fb8a6d21c7204...4ad170299f.png

https://i.gyazo.com/8d521070c59015b0...e9fed34883.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/26bae45174eacffa...68c8150d6a.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/043c28df63254a1c...fc7936ff49.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/8071ac9c1aba0a0b...92b0e9b8b6.jpg

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I am playing on a PS5 Pro and my hrothgal doesn't look anything like that. Nothing blurry on me.

Disappointed but entirely unsurprised to see that male Miqo'te face 4 has yet again remained untouched by yet another update/fix. Their mouth shape is still NOTABLY wrong, borderline unrecognizable even, and their eyes have no reflection/catchlight -- or well, they do, but it can only be seen if you look up from under the characters chin, otherwise no reflection and they look dead and lifeless. It's been over a year at this point. Losing more and more faith with each passing day glaring issues go unchecked.

Another patch, another round of playing "did they even adjust anything?". If they did it was more pixel-level normal map adjustments, and not physical features that are demonstrably completely different shapes from their post-DT versions.

Oh, and the eyelid bug hasn't been patched, or even acknowledged.

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Originally Posted by Turnintino

(...) I noticed my female Duskwight Elezen, Face 1, saw some changes to the shape of her mouth...

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I also noticed the change in the upper lip length and its shape (face 4, mouth 2). The mouth is still too large, but at least now its shape has become more natural and complex instead of a mere combination of straight lines.

EW - 7.1 - 7.3 comparison:
https://i.postimg.cc/Hs55YJcZ/Elezen.png

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Originally Posted by Turnintino

No noticeable changes to male Seeker of the Sun Miqo'te, Face 4. Unsurprised, but always disappointed.

I noticed my female Duskwight Elezen, Face 1, saw some changes to the shape of her mouth and to the baked-in eye shadow this face had previously in 7.2. Below, I've manually edited the brightness/contrast of the screenshots for clarity, since these were the best I had on hand for a clear comparison. She's wearing lip color and face paint around the eyes, but I confirmed with the aesthetician that the baked-in eye shadow underneath has been removed. I did not play an Elezen prior to DT, so I can only assume they're correcting a mistake similar to the one they made with the male Duskwight faces being given Wildwood's dark circles, but I'm hardly the authority here. Regardless, I figured the differences were worth sharing.

https://i.imgur.com/cUPJOzE.png

And a gif for additional clarity:

https://i.imgur.com/ASE95qM.gif

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Thank you, I was wondering why I liked my elezen a little more. I like the subtle curve of the top lip, makes them look like they aren't just :| and more of a :}

Hope the link works... I had to use the Fantasia to get her back to "Endwalker" looks, and it somehow worked! the lips are better shaped now, and her round eyes don't look like she is shocked all the time anymore. Also the eyebrows seem a bit darker even with light hair, overall, colors seem a bit better now and more according to the color table (lipsticks still could be better tho : ( and natural lips lack texture yet). I'm missing fangs and some other stuff here and there but overall I think this update got a lot of things better and more similar to the original character models, so I hope they keep working on it!! I'm more hopeful now than last patches over this past year :'')

Things I think/look like they 'fixed' 7.3 (in most of my characters):
-lip shapes on the corners and middle parts (some faces are back to subtle smile like before)
-Eye shapes, altho this can look a little weird with the new realistic eyes, some look too small and now that the eye got bigger, it looks weirder
-Eye lights, they catch more light now! no matter the time of day and angle of camera
-Colors (a bit brighter/more accurate)
-some face expressions using emotes that looked weird now look more natural

Things I still wish they would address:
-Some scalp/hair shapes
-Upper lips, they are messed up and smaller in most of races and faces... (Miqo'te face 4, lips 2, I'm so sad... and also my Lalafell girl)
-More natural looking on non-lipstick lips and painted lips (too dull, or too bright and fake)
-Some eyebrows still lack hair and look too bright with some hair colors


7.3
https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsi...5s5rzuriq@jpeg

7.2
https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsi...ccnuttl6e@jpeg

please keep answers respectful even if you don't agree with my post, Thank you!

A friend of mine sent me screenshots of his Female Miqo'te with Face 3 Mouth 4 when he was using a new mod for Pre DT faces. Look how completely different these lips are when you compare the 6.55 to 7.0+.
https://i.imgur.com/FYwwA24.png
the left and center screenshots were taken about 2 weeks ago by a friend that was using a new mod called "Miqo'te Female EW face port".

The left screenshot is how Feathetaria's Lips used to look before DT, back in 6.55 and earlier and this is how they would look with the new mod. I want these lips back ingame and I will never give up my fight!
The middle and right are 7.0-7.3 and are so similar that I kinda feel like Female Miqo'te Face 3 Mouth 4 just was not addressed in 7.3 and hopefully will be fixed in a future patch.

I'm a housing designer and bathhouse enjoyer that loves to socialize, so I don't plan on quitting the game. But I will still say that the reason I didn't play DT MSQ was because of WHAT DT DID TO MY LIPS! I still have not done DT MSQ because I'm technically still on MSQ Strike until my lips are restored. This had nothing to do with public DT reception. This decision was 10000% based on LIPS. Feathetaria thinks it's unacceptable that her lips were taken from her for no good reason. They were perfect as they were and even with the new lighting engine her lips look FREAKING AMAZING with the new face port mod that my friend took screenshots of, for me.

I beg you, SE. PLEASE return to her the Perfect Lips that you stole from Feathetaria. ♥
I love this game and it is Feathetaria's home. Please restore her ♥.

I'm not seeing any changes to Fem Roegadyn face 2. The nose is still bulbous, like they just pinched a hyur nose and called it a day. And I admit, I'm super jealous, it looks like FemElezen got their cute little lip dimples back, and we're still out here with the new crusty lip shape. I'm not taking new pictures, I'll just use this persons post, cause the shapes are still looking the same.

And the eyes are still wrong. Dark pupils, and snake eyes anytime my characters smile.

Face also still looks like she got stung by bees when she makes expressions. My poor girl looks like she needs an epipen.

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Originally Posted by Voggy

翻訳機を使っているので、間違いがあるかもしれませんが、すみません！

女性ルガディンの顔2は全体的にひどい出来でしたが、鼻と唇が最悪です。特に鼻！

7.0以前の鼻筋はまっすぐで、先端が細くなっていた。7.0以降は、最初が狭く、先端が広くなっている。鼻先も今は完全にまっすぐで、ブロックが多すぎるように見える。

写真ではすべてを見せようとしている。

それはさておき、肌がごちゃごちゃしすぎているように見える。

< 6.0 | 7.0 >
https://i.imgur.com/81wgD5e.png

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Someone with a better eye for it than me can probably make a proper comparison image, but seems like fem Au Ra face 2 is still unchanged as well. :( The mouth I use is still oddly shaped and tiny, they're never giving me my dimples back feels like...

My Viera's hooked nose on Face 1 has been entirely sanded down. I'm actually upset about it, not to mention he looks even more baby faced than he did the last time.
Why?

I picked sharp features for this character for a reason, and now they're just completely gone. Every nose is sanded down.
The threatening and more mature aspects of my Viera are just erased for nothing. Why are these options just gone now, from face 1?
I miss his hooked nose, I miss the angular features.

Even when comparing older screenshots I can tell this is not the Viera I've designed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

I'm not seeing any changes to Fem Roegadyn face 2. The nose is still bulbous, like they just pinched a hyur nose and called it a day. And I admit, I'm super jealous, it looks like FemElezen got their cute little lip dimples back, and we're still out here with the new crusty lip shape. I'm not taking new pictures, I'll just use this persons post, cause the shapes are still looking the same.

And the eyes are still wrong. Dark pupils, and snake eyes anytime my characters smile.

Face also still looks like she got stung by bees when she makes expressions. My poor girl looks like she needs an epipen.

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Yeah, zero changes between 7.2 and 7.3 — still dealing with those awful eyes, missing brow normal maps, a bracket for a lip shape that makes smiles look horrendous. I'm so tired. I'm SO tired.

https://i.imgur.com/LLWZ81F.jpeg

Like seriously who in the design team thinks keeping that flat diffuse without the muscle definition in the brow from the normal map looks good, it still looks like Sko has taken a contouring stick and smeared it on the arch before her brow hair.

The mobile version shows WHY that flat diffuse exists because the normal map is there!

https://i.imgur.com/zxLuM83.png

It's so infuriating! I'm no longer going to be "nice" about this, CS3! The eyes have been a feedback point SINCE OCTOBER 2023 FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. WE DON'T WANT THESE! GIVE OUR CHARACTERS BACK. これは馬鹿げている！あなたは数十億ドル規模の企業です。責任を果たすか実際にプレイヤーに「更新内容」を明確に説明してください！

Looks like they're not done offering fantasias ^^.

At this point, no one is ever going to be happy with what changes they do. You somehow managed to find something that works, then they change it once more, then now it looks terrible. We're playing a lose-lose situation here. The playerbase will never be happy with any changes. Anything they do will upset even more players that found options that have 'worked' for them, only for those options to change and now they have to redo it all over again. I get anxious when I see "graphical updates" going to characters every patch; They are only going to keep pissing people off with not mentioning what they're changing.

I'm upset with how my character looks and have fantasia'd using the free one given each patch so far. I found a medium even if I'm not overly thrilled. People will just have to bite the bullet and make do with the options they have, even if it's not great. I'd rather have them invest more time, money, and energy into a complete character creator overhaul, even if it takes them a long time. I feel that will be the BEST THING they can do instead of doing this every god damn patch. End of the day, they can't please every single player.

yeah... big surprise, NOTHING again. Lips still wrong. It even looks like somehow there's LESS contrast visually than in 7.0...?
Ignore the eyebrows, I had to change them to thinner ones between 7.2 to 7.3 to look even remotely a little more angry when my character's supposed to be mad.

https://i.imgur.com/UbaB0g4.png


Oh yeah and eyelids still broken when looking down.

https://i.imgur.com/sQeBJXT.png

At this point I think aside from some people getting to wear hats / show their ears, they're literally just giving folks a free fantasia and calling it a day.

I really hope and pray a dev sees this post, cause the pants for Hakama #55 and the entire set are very much a different color from what they used to be. This wouldn't be a problem if it was dyable but still my outfit was all the same shade of black but now the pants are like a brownish black. I don't mind graphic updates but those pants did not need them. :mad:

Face 2 Female Roegadyn now have a very strange, distracting permanent mark on the inside eyebrows. I think it's meant to be a shadow but it looks like a dirt or marker smudge on the face because of how far past the eyebrow and down the nose it goes. It isn't present on any face #1, #3, or #4 female roegadyn but is present on both Hellsguard and Seawolf faces with all four eyebrow options.

https://i.imgur.com/MqJcDGL.png
https://i.imgur.com/Moqei4X.png
https://i.imgur.com/FXReUzH.png
https://i.imgur.com/uFtR2vP.png
https://i.imgur.com/wl0DgKe.png