Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by NephilimCanis

I don't want to be weak but in this case, its not me thats weak but only the DRG. :(

Any suggestions on that? :/

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dragoons can destroy on that fight. some of its rng with conflags, dread stuns, fireballs. but unless you are getting everything, it should be substantially more then a tank.

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

Gotta give some more info..

What are you doing? How do you handle the 3 dragons at the start? How do you go about conflags? How do you tackle dread? Snakes?

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The tactics run trough my vains, so no problem on that ;) I don't ever let Heavy Thrust/phletomobize run out, 1 impulsive drive combo, 2 True Thrust(?) with phletomobize inbetween, buffs when they are available and OGC skills like Leg Sweep. Rotation goes for everything in there except for conflags, I only use true thrust combo there for max dps output in min. time

It's not about t5 but my overall damage output. I just feel weak. I had to lie if I said that I know my auto attack dps but its somewhere around 250-300 and my highest damage is about 1300.
I don't know if you can consider it weak, but it feels just bad when I'm giving out slightly more damage than a Tank, whose purpose is not do dps :/

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Originally Posted by KidSerge

dragoons can destroy on that fight. some of its rng with conflags, dread stuns, fireballs. but unless you are getting everything, it should be substantially more then a tank.

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I have no rng problems on conflags or anything or basically the whole thing. But it bothers me so much... Our Pala is very skilled and he is..in my opinion one of the most skilled/equipped people of the whole server but it still feels bad.

i wish i could see your gear, shows you as a whm on the lodestone. I mean, im not sure but if he is as geared as you say, depending on the difference he could be pulling around your numbers. do you meet accuracy cap? are you using buffs in between your moves, not all at once?

Drg is not weak. Not knowing the fight mechanic makes is weak. I'm always top dps n my Fc but did t6 a few weeks ago and I was bad. I mean horrible. I think my dps barely pass 200. That was my first attempt on t6. So not knowing what to do in a fight will hurt ur dps. Need to study more in t5 before u call drg us weak

I'm about to switch my main to WHM, sorry. I wanted to look at my gear myself and noticed that I can only see my whm stuff wich is not as close to be good as my DRG.

I never bothered with accurancy caps,tbh I can't even remember when I missed my last attack :P
And yes. I start with internal release, some skills between, and when I'm about to life surge I use bfb before.

And I didn't want to sound rude to the whole DRG Community, I know it's not weak at all but I feel weak.
I know that not knowing the mechanics will hurt the dps. I don't speak on every fight in my matter but only on t5 since it's the only time my dps was called 'weak'

HT-IR-ID-BFB-Dis-Sweep-CT-PS-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-LS-FT-HT-TT-VT-Sweep-FT-Ph-ID-Dis-CT-HT-TT-VT-Sweep-FT-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-FT

it sounds to me like you are not using the buffs at the right time, and are saving them for certain sitatuions. while their are times when you need burst, you should be using them as soon as they are up, but INBETWEEN every GCD skill. so heavy thrust, internal release, impulse drive, blood for blood etc.. if used just like shown, blood for blood will still be active for the life surge on full thrust. from then on, you use them as soon as they come back, in between skills again. no reason to save them unless you know a huge dps check is coming up in certain fights, and even then, the more you run a fight you will know if they can be up by the time you do need them

Oh I got the order wrong... I'm using bfb whenever I can of course, but I sometimes save it for the true thrust combo to make sure I have it up when I use life surge on Full Thrust.
Thanks for the help btw :)

I'm almost certain I've done Titan EX with you, when your DRG was wearing a spring dress.

Anyways, you just need to learn how to adapt the rotation to T5s mechanics, really. Little things like, having dots ticking on twintania, whilst a conflag is up. Before the conflag, being ready to land disembowel straight on it, to go straight into burst mode (fast conflags).

Once you do that, you'll find your DPS won't be low enough to be compared to a PLD. But enjoy your venture on WHM. :)

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

I'm almost certain I've done Titan EX with you, when your DRG was wearing a spring dress.

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Oh yes, I thought I read your name before, that must have been it :) But it was certainly a while ago, I didn't wear a Spring dress for weeks ^^

Oh to be honest... I mentioned that I never let my dots down but I didn't pay any attention to dots on twin while burning down conflags. That's something I will start to do now for sure!
And thanks a lot, healing is just my thing ^.^

I feel like a worse monk half the time.

so! 2.3 related thoughts, ilvl100 weapon, gonna be alternate for weathered/Animus?
will the ilvl100 gear gonna change the pre-t9 BiS? I'm really curious about chest and belt for sure (tired of my ilvl90 chest and belt!)

Only time will tell sir.

As for weapon, it depends on its stats I suppose.

I think the new items will be more convenient and better suited for those willing to put in the time for EX runs versus those willing to farm FATES/raids/dungeons for the higher tier of Relic weapons. People like me basically because I rather obtain an item via battle than have to build it over time. And yeah, that means I hated getting my Relic Weapon (though Zenith wasn't bad because Myth is now abundant).

I still don't understand the appeal to the Weathered Liberator. By the time you've accumulated enough Soldiery and obtained the items necessary to refurbish it, you could have gotten a High Allagan Spear or even Animus. That doesn't even mention Tidal Wave Harpoon and Novus being right there with it. It just seems to me like questionable allocation of time for something that's going to be replaced anyways. Holy Lance has this same issue, but at least it's an iconic weapon.

which part of HA SPEAR's RNG u dun understand? Animus? lemme see....Atma RNG? check! , Animus brayflox SR for a week 24/7 and get urself burned out and quit playing? check! Tidal Wave Spear Mirror drop rate? check! Novus? huge time sink and massive gil sink? check!

versus

weathered liberator which only cost 1300 SOL aka 3 weeks no RNG with UAT being GET UR FREE LOOT FROM T7 TRAINING DUMMY and u can negotiate with ur static on ur sands...

So I finally got High Allagan mask to drop but I've been using a penta melded mask for quite some time. According to the stat weights here the penta melded mask is actually 3 points higher than High Allagan and they almost have the same acc.
Am I crazy for considering still using a level 90 mask over 110?

Ramuh's spear is almost certainly going to be SS/Acc or Crit/SS. Neither of which is terrribly good.

Not going to be Crit/DET (HA), DET/Acc (Levi), Crit/Acc (Relic) or SS/DET (Sol).

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Ramuh's spear is almost certainly going to be SS/Acc or Crit/SS. Neither of which is terrribly good.
Not going to be Crit/DET (HA), DET/Acc (Levi), Crit/Acc (Relic) or SS/DET (Sol).

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If we apply this same thing to CT2 armors... then some gears will be filled with DET and hopefully surpass all those SS/ACC from soldiery gear
Hell, some of them may be even pre-coil bis.

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Originally Posted by Andrens

If we apply this same thing to CT2 armors... then some gears will be filled with DET and hopefully surpass all those SS/ACC from soldiery gear
Hell, some of them may be even pre-coil bis.

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Well, its really only the Head and Body that can be considered IMO. i90 crafted belt is cheap to penta-meld and is better than anything (though T9 belt should be used just because), but if you don't want to do that the belt also has potential. Hands and Feet are out, the Sol is just a better pair (feet must be Crit/DET to be better, and that was Allagan, so yeah, not happening).

I feel body is going to be Acc/DET, Crit/Acc, Crit/DET (unlikely though) or SS/Crit. Hoping for one of the Acc options, not SS/Crit...as for the head, probably going to not have Acc, so SS/DET or Crit/SS, maybe Crit/DET (highly unlikely IMO). Belt isn't going to be Crit/DET nor SS/Acc, so SS/DET, SS/Crit, Crit/Acc or DET/Acc; still not better than my penta-belt, so I'm ignoring it. UGH, pants are a possible good grab too, IF they're DET/Acc or Crit/DET; I'm ignoring if its Crit/Acc, DET/SS I may or may not go for (if its High-SS/low-DET I will ignore, other way I may go for)

Now...a lot of this does change if CT gear is upgradable with Sands...which IMO is a possibility (they're giving us a lot of ways of getting sands...), but we'll know with the full patch notes on Monday if they do this or not.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Now...a lot of this does change if CT gear is upgradable with Sands...which IMO is a possibility (they're giving us a lot of ways of getting sands...), but we'll know with the full patch notes on Monday if they do this or not.

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Impossible unless the patch notes purposefully omitted their entry, as there are no i110 armors introduced.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Impossible unless the patch notes purposefully omitted their entry, as there are no i110 armors introduced.

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Preliminary notes. No recipes, bug-fixes, price changes or anything that could get players to do something that will give them an advantage (buying mats or such). Which is why I'm hoping there are more job balance changes to come; we knew about BLM buffs and SMN getting something, and the stance changes don't affect anything.

They did slip on three items though...Mosshorn Earrings and Dodore Ring/Choker. Crafters who read the item list carefully found them and bought out any Dodore Wings/Leather and Mossy Horns they could already.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Well, its really only the Head and Body that can be considered IMO. i90 crafted belt is cheap to penta-meld and is better than anything (though T9 belt should be used just because), but if you don't want to do that the belt also has potential. Hands and Feet are out, the Sol is just a better pair (feet must be Crit/DET to be better, and that was Allagan, so yeah, not happening).

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i90 pentamelded is still worse than the i110 high allagan but it does have accuracy. I think the helmet is the only possible competitor to i110 pieces as it's the only one where both i110 pieces have accuracy so it could potentially be bis for no accuracy sets. I don't think the body is capable of being better than the i110 sets. If it's accuracy/det, the 5 str difference would make it worse than the accuracy/skillspeed i110 soldiery piece. If it's crit/det, it would still lose due to the 5 str to the i110 high allagan. Even if the ct pants is det/crit, it's still worse than the astrum hose.

The only piece that could possibly be BIS is the helmet, and that's only for a no accuracy set.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

SNIP

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Well, no, none of them will be BiS, especially if you are using the High Allagan Body/Legs BiS list (which you need Acc food to make work), since the HA Headgear is there moreso for the Acc on it and the decent secondary. Even in the Sol Body/Legs list, it would be hard to use any CT2 if you have full i110 due to Acc issues (using any CT2 non-acc gear means using Acc food).

No-Acc "BiS" yes, using no-acc gear is always better, but its hard to call it BiS since you only use it in old content and are overgearing for it...

My comments are more for that "in-between" phase...still trying to get clears, have no Sands to upgrade gear, really unlucky with drops, maybe not clearing Coil. None of the CT2 will be T9 Bis, just like no CT1 was BiS for T5.

There would have to be some really good secondaries for this to be BiS. A DET/Crit Body or Legs would be perfect until their HA drops in T8/9, for example, or even if they are DET/Acc. Same for the Head, though its as likely to go Crit/SS...


Also...someone did run the numbers, both properly penta-melded i90 Head and Belt are supposed to have more stat-weight than the HA or Sol+1, due to being completely capped with all stats (the Acc cap also frees up room on other gear for more DPS stats) But, it is expensive to penta-meld (especially now), and I will be switching to the HA belt if I ever get it.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

both properly penta-melded i90 Head and Belt are supposed to have more stat-weight than the HA or Sol+1, due to being completely capped with all stats (the Acc cap also frees up room on other gear for more DPS stats) .

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Head does, belt does not. This is only true because stat weights don't factor in accuracy and both HA and sol+1 head pieces have accuracy.

High allagan belt is 18 str 19 crit 9 det: 24.821
crafted caps at 13 str 16 crit 11det 16 skillspeed and 16 accuracy: 22.687 and 16 accuracy

It doesn't have more stat weights but you could argue that accuracy is valued by se the same as crit and skillspeed and that would make it 0.6 to 1.0~ better than high allagan if we factor in accuracy.

A bis list with properly penta melded gear would probably lead to different bis lists with quite a few more crafted pieces but I don't have a bis solver to solve for it.

On another hand, I'm 2 sands away from the 492 accuracy bis set and I can't decide if it's worth it to use 2 sands to trade 18 skillspeed for 7 crit and 6 det. Think that's a difference of 0.174 str.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

On another hand, I'm 2 sands away from the 492 accuracy bis set and I can't decide if it's worth it to use 2 sands to trade 18 skillspeed for 7 crit and 6 det. Think that's a difference of 0.174 str.

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I would trade 18 SS for 7 Crit and 6 DET in a heartbeat. Not only is it more weight/damage (even if its not even 2 DPS) but in longer fights (looking at you T8) SS is just...not as good. I don't like to rely on BRD to keep DPSing, and want to minimize that dependence as much as possible.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I would trade 18 SS for 7 Crit and 6 DET in a heartbeat. Not only is it more weight/damage (even if its not even 2 DPS) but in longer fights (looking at you T8) SS is just...not as good. I don't like to rely on BRD to keep DPSing, and want to minimize that dependence as much as possible.

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Think it's like 0.1 dps ROFL. It's 0.174 stat weight more out of a stat weight of like 850~, unless I did math wrong somewhere.

I mean if it's definitely an upgrade but it costs and 2 sands for 0.174 str seems a stretch but I guess it depends on the availability of sands in 2.3.

So during daily roulettes and whatnot I've been noticing other DRGs, and not just new ones (last one was average ilvl 93 or something), spamming RoT on single targets for some reason. I asked one of them why he was doing and he simply said it was "because it's a combo from HT" and that he couldn't help it.

Am I missing something? Did I miss some new information that was found about this ability being used for single targets in the past 300+ pages?

And yes, his damage was horrendous.

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Originally Posted by Doluka

So during daily roulettes and whatnot I've been noticing other DRGs, and not just new ones (last one was average ilvl 93 or something), spamming RoT on single targets for some reason. I asked one of them why he was doing and he simply said it was "because it's a combo from HT" and that he couldn't help it.

Am I missing something? Did I miss some new information that was found about this ability being used for single targets in the past 300+ pages?

And yes, his damage was horrendous.

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Nothing more than Bad DRG is Bad. Its a prime example of a Derpoon, and why people hate us. These are the majority of players out there...

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Nothing more than Bad DRG is Bad. Its a prime example of a Derpoon, and why people hate us. These are the majority of players out there...

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That's what I thought. Thanks for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I would trade 18 SS for 7 Crit and 6 DET in a heartbeat. Not only is it more weight/damage (even if its not even 2 DPS) but in longer fights (looking at you T8) SS is just...not as good. I don't like to rely on BRD to keep DPSing, and want to minimize that dependence as much as possible.

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It's overtime that skill speed starts to have value though because it's at that point that you are actually getting in extra attacks.

I think it's preference and play style actually, otherwise the devs wouldn't slap the stats on the gear. I simply like having skill speed because that means I can get more skills on my target. Even if they would do less than someone with CritRate+Determination, the fact that they do enough as is and I can get more of them in makes me feel like I'm able to do more.

But let's be honest, it's just fun spamming all of them thrusts. :S

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Originally Posted by Ihm

It's overtime that skill speed starts to have value though because it's at that point that you are actually getting in extra attacks.

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I can't remember where someone did the math, but its something like 600 or 650 or some equally silly SS you need in order to get extra attacks on the majority of fights, and in the fights where you see the effect the most (T8 for example) you run out of TP extremely fast and have to rely on a BRD to keep you up (which may or may not be possible, esp if manasong is needed at that time) Of course, this also involves using a filler move too keep DoTs from clipping...and the best filler is our favorite 80TP skill, Fracture...which causes us to run out even faster...

If SS caused auto attacks and (at least damaging) oGDC skills to go faster...it would be what we'd go for IMO. But it doesn't...and AAs, Jump and Leg Sweep make up a good bit of our DPS.

Doesn't SS have the same cap as crit which s at 623?

The only "cap" is how much you can get by gear (and food and Selene if you want to count those as part of the set).

Sry should've made more specific, but yes gear. Abilities and food not count

I can't for Tuesday since will b getting ilvl 90 crafted accessories

I have my suspicions that they will disable melding for i90 accessories, like they have done with PvP accessories.

So I've gone through a lot of this thread and lurked for a while to keep up, but some stuff I might've skipped might've answered this, but sorry.

My rotation for the most part a identical to this:
HT->IR->ID->BFB->Dis->X-pot->CT->Sweep->PS->Phleb->Jump->TT->(if burst DFD or SSD)->VT->LS->FT (if burst use opposite of what I used earlier DFD/SSD)

When I finish the cycle and get back to this phase, Life Surge is up again so I typically use it on Full Thrust again, which looks like this:
...VT->LS->FT->HT->TT->BFB->VT->FT->Phleb...

Blood for Blood is usually off cooldown right after the full thrust, and I place it where it is so it's up for Phleb and Chaos thrust, but my question is, should I move life surge to the Full Thrust while BFB is up or keep it where it is? I play on PS4, so I have no way to tell which is more effective. Thanks in advance!

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

I have my suspicions that they will disable melding for i90 accessories, like they have done with PvP accessories.

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Yeah that would suck. I'm not into any endgame raids as I pug quite a few of my runs . Having the option to meld matz in gears to come close to endgame gears is great but if they lock the melding for new accessories will b horrible

My rotation for the most part a identical to this:
HT->IR->ID->BFB->Dis->X-pot->CT->Sweep->PS->Phleb->Jump->TT->(if burst DFD or SSD)->VT->LS->FT (if burst use opposite of what I used earlier DFD/SSD)

When I finish the cycle and get back to this phase, Life Surge is up again so I typically use it on Full Thrust again, which looks like this:
...VT->LS->FT->HT->TT->BFB->VT->FT->Phleb.
For ur opening I have the exact same thing but I use B4B first and not IR since its only last less. I use all my jump under that burst rotation, when I get to DfD IR just wore off but all buff still up including xpot and to me DFD yields more dps under xpot compare to IR.