Gender locked race?

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

on a community level it might be smaller but the backlash that blu caused was/is down to the community mostly, gender locking will get more media backlash with why now? why Viera? why did you change for old races? you would have to give incredibly good reasons for why or it will sour a lot of reviewers opinions( you can't tell me some games journalists won't jump at the chance for a controversial topic) Competitors may jump on it as well like look we don't gender lock you can play as anything male or female. Gender locking creates a very negative stigma and puts more people off especially now when there are more choices to go play, gender locking races is also 1 step away from gender locked jobs and i certainly do not want that either. People are likely to be way more vocal about this than stuff like glamour if they decide this it will be a mistake imo gender locking races/jobs is always looked down on as a very bad thing by the majority of people and its something 2.0 was very much praised for doing away with

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And? Gender and race locked classes are a huge thing in MMO's. Please show me major news articles and movements against all the other competing MMO's that have gender locks? There are plenty of MMO's active in the market now and being successful that have gender locks, with some of the most anticipated upcoming MMO's also having them such as crowfall.

SE is in a good position with 14, it's more successful than ever and a little controversy, especially about a fictional race, isn't going to cause any significant damage.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Sorry, don't have the book. Can you SS the relevant parts you're referring to? All I have to go by is in-game lore (which contradicts the encyclopedia if what you say is true).

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https://prnt.sc/mhxvf4
Apologies had to take a picture from the phone as I was far too lazy to remove everything from my printer.

You can find a lot more of the lore here; someone summarised all of the quotes from the dramaturge and etc
http://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/pos...7699/the-viera

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

And? Gender and race locked classes are a huge thing in MMO's. Please show me major news articles and movements against all the other competing MMO's that have gender locks? There are plenty of MMO's active in the market now and being successful that have gender locks, with some of the most anticipated upcoming MMO's also having them such as crowfall.

SE is in a good position with 14, it's more successful than ever and a little controversy, especially about a fictional race, isn't going to cause any significant damage.

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Yes, but those who play FF14 are of a different breed to those who play Korean MMOs that have the gender locks. This community is big on acceptance of all kinds. It is known to be 'accepting' in regards to all communities - LBGT+ etc. And they're extremely vocal. They were vocal before with the previous locks and they'll be vocal now. But this time the fact SE didn't learn their lesson and went back and Gender Locked a race after the fiasco was before isn't going to earn them any kind of leeway.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

hi xeala who rarely leave the steppe nice to meet you i am a hyur who are plentiful everywhere :rolleyes:
all joking aside using lore as a reason is not good justification this lore was written way more recently yugiri was always going to be a new race back in 2.2 so we can assume a new race was decided to be added in 4.2 what they both were were just in a conceptional stage now fast forward a patch and the base race idea should be on the table ready to be worked on as we know patches are worked on long in advance between 2 to 3 patches sometimes more so the lore for viera is within that time frame so from 4.3 (latest) to 4.5 release they easily could've excluded males from any mention they did not in fact they emphasize male viera roles and viera society in general. If you wanted to exclude a gender this would've been the easiest place to nip it in the bud they choose not to.
Player characters outside of yourself do not exist they have 0 bearing on any story within ffxiv so it would not be impossible for a single male viera to leave the wood or a pregnant female viera who will have a boy grow up outside the wood and become the WoL. Rarity means nothing impossibility does and they have males as a possible gender for newborn viera thus it is not impossible for males to be the WoL

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lets not forget you can now go back as a Aura talking to Yugiri who says she is covered because her race is often mistaken for void or dragons and get killed on site and noone in eozera have seen them before.....

I mean its almost a trope in story telling to have people leave the traditional norms. It wouldn't be hard to have a male veira appear and say 'traditionally males stay in the woods but after the war happened we have started to leave and contribute to protect our home.'

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

You have to keep in mind, this is FFXII Viera, not FFXIV unique race. If you asked for a race like Viera and we got an entirely new one that's based of Viera that wouldn't be a problem.

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No, this is XIV Viera from XIV Ivalice. Adding male Viera here wouldn't retroactively break the canon of the actual Ivalice games.

Reversed timeline? Sure.
Events playing out differently? Fine by me.
Geological changes and mixed up locations? No problem.
Characters assuming different roles and personalities? That's reasonable.
Male bunnies? Too far.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

https://prnt.sc/mhxvf4
Apologies had to take a picture from the phone as I was far too lazy to remove everything from my printer.

You can find a lot more of the lore here; someone summarised all of the quotes from the dramaturge and etc
http://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/pos...7699/the-viera

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after reading the summery, male bunnies are basically a guaranteed thing, my idea for them was the male Viera who didn't become a wood wailer, were exiled, and that's how we were going to be introduced, but seeing that Viera are leaving the forests if they have a male kit with them then yea that male Viera wouldn't be shunned from his people or others in the cities, if anything if female vieras are popular due to there air of mystery then male vieras must also be very popular due to being rarer, making them just as likely to become adventurers or explorers.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

It's one thing to something regarding this with BlueMage which can be changed in the future by giving them an actual skill tree - I can honestly see this in the future and I hope it happens as limited BLU sucks.

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I mean, why does this not apply to Viera? The vast majority of people who asked for viera were expecting the female viera we are getting. Who is to say releasing them as a genderlocked race isn't a way for SE to fully gauge the demand for male Viera exclusively to be added in the future?

It let's them add the most requested race (predominantly female viera) which is a sure bet to be a popular race, whereas male viera may be more of a gamble.

We sure had a vocal minority clamoring for male bunny outfits, only for them to be hardly seen actually being worn once people finally got them, even on servers you'd expect to see more.

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It's another thing in this day and age - and I can't believe I'm saying this because eugh it's SJW as all heck - to do gender race blocks on a race that has male and female counterparts. Holding a race hostage to one specific gender is lame; it's gross - and doesn't belong in this day and age. If they didn't want to add males then they should have gone back and rewrote the lore for FF14 to have it that males don't exist period and that they reproduce asexually. I actually despise gender locked races just like I despise gender locked classes - I'm looking at you Black Desert.

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Yet black desert has had a pretty solid amount of success. Even though it's both gender and class locked. Tera is another example of an MMO that's had sustainability despite gender locking, as does many other online games.

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I'll give you an example of a only female race that was done correctly; Asari from Mass Effect. All female biologically. Most people are fine with that because it's there lore - they reproduce with others regardless of gender and produce female children. No one is up in arms about this, no one is screaming; because that's how they were made.

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Don't you think this is now going against your own argument? Either genderlocking is bad, or its fine as long as there's lore to support it?* So SE only has to establish lore reasons such as all the male viera dying in a certain inferno shown to us. Or maybe they all gathered and summoned a primal and are all tempered, thus unplayable.

If I wanted to play a biotic commando in Mass Effect multiplayer I would be forced to play a female asari. How is that different than Black Deserts?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

I mean, why does this not apply to Viera? The vast majority of people who asked for viera were expecting the female viera we are getting. Who is to say releasing them as a genderlocked race isn't a way for SE to fully gauge the demand for male Viera exclusively to be added in the future?

It let's them add the most requested race (predominantly female viera) which is a sure bet to be a popular race, whereas male viera may be more of a gamble.

We sure had a vocal minority clamoring for male bunny outfits, only for them to be hardly seen actually being worn once people finally got them, even on servers you'd expect to see more.

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Honestly not sure on this one because I didn't care about the outfit; I figure it was more of an equality thing, to be honest. As for them wanting the female; that would be one heck of an assumption.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Yet black desert has had a pretty solid amount of success. Even though it's both gender and class locked. Tera is another example of an MMO that's had sustainability despite gender locking, as does many other online games.

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Yes, it does, for that community or....
http://prntscr.com/mhy6f5
Yeah... that's just me using those specific words gender lock etc; I'm sure there are more threads on their forum of people screaming about the gender class lock. Bound to be more on other media websites.
http://prntscr.com/mhyb27
The same with Tera. Just search results from using those specific words in their forum, bound to be a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Don't you think this is now going against your own argument? Either genderlocking is bad, or its fine as long as there's lore to support it?* So SE only has to establish lore reasons such as all the male viera dying in a certain inferno shown to us. Or maybe they all gathered and summoned a primal and are all tempered, thus unplayable.

If I wanted to play a biotic commando in Mass Effect multiplayer I would be forced to play a female asari. How is that different than Black Deserts?

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No, I don't agree with that and it doesn't go against my argument. I said the lore for asari was sound for why you didn't see a male Asari. The fact they locked classes to specific genders regarding the multiplayer was also lame. And if males died while summoning a primal. Well, Viera got a bigger problem on their hands. Like going extinct.

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Originally Posted by Corue

No, this is XIV Viera from XIV Ivalice. Adding male Viera here wouldn't retroactively break the canon of the actual Ivalice games.

Reversed timeline? Sure.
Events playing out differently? Fine by me.
Geological changes and mixed up locations? No problem.
Characters assuming different roles and personalities? That's reasonable.
Male bunnies? Too far.

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Yes this is FFXIV Ivalice and FFXIV Viera, however they're both based off of FFXII and FFT incarnations. This means they still have to deal with the original right owners, but they also need to have permission in the first place to do so.

If it was its own unique race there wouldn't be a problem. But this is dealing with Viera wholesale, not a FFXIV version, Viera as a whole. First originating in Tactics Advance (which is a far different Ivalice than of XIV and XII) had them as gender locked then, and when XII was made they kept the gender lock.

There seems to be a heavy theme in how the creator originally envisioned the race, not even taking into account if there would be an MMORPG featuring them (who could back in the early 2000s?)

This is why it's an adaptation and SE wants to remain faithful to the source material. If an adaptation isn't faithful people would deride the end product as it's "not representing what they wanted."

It's not about keeping XII lore (anyone who say Viera originated in XII are mis-informed) but from Tactics Advance, it's keeping Viera Lore as a whole intact. It's like saying Crystal Tower isn't a faithful adaptation/recreation of the final dungeon from FF3 because "they added in characters who weren't relevant to the source game".

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Originally Posted by GenericMagus

Yes this is FFXIV Ivalice and FFXIV Viera, however they're both based off of FFXII and FFT incarnations. This means they still have to deal with the original right owners, but they also need to have permission in the first place to do so.

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It's Square Enix anyway; Square at that time for FFT, but still SE. They own the rights on the whole Final Fantasy licence. They can throw Kefka in a raid, Krile as an NPC.
Just like Bloodborne has Moonlight Greatsword, originating from other From Software games. They can do what they want with their original creations.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

And? Gender and race locked classes are a huge thing in MMO's. Please show me major news articles and movements against all the other competing MMO's that have gender locks? There are plenty of MMO's active in the market now and being successful that have gender locks, with some of the most anticipated upcoming MMO's also having them such as crowfall.

SE is in a good position with 14, it's more successful than ever and a little controversy, especially about a fictional race, isn't going to cause any significant damage.

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https://mmos.com/editorials/on-chara...cking-in-games

https://www.gamingfactors.com/mmorpg...ocked-classes/

https://www.freemmostation.com/news/...ocked-classes/

https://www.mmobyte.tv/a-brand-new-u...d-information/

https://massivelyop.com/2017/08/31/m...asses-in-mmos/

A few news articles ranging across the years and its very common to see the negative stigma that gender locking brings. Black desert online and Tera could've both been more successful had they not added gender lock on their classes forcing people to play their way rather than the player's way will create attrition.
SE are in a good position with ffxiv but as a company its not as good and they should rightly be thinking about not stirring the pot too much right now especially after cancelling ffxv dlc and don't think the smallest thing won't set people off if Paranorman can get heavily criticized because of having a gay character (literally get told in last minute of the movie) than ffxiv could easily get criticized for adding gender locked races how much only time will tell if it happens.

Now all of that is my side so if you can find news articles in favour of gender locking races/jobs i'll be very interested in reading them as be good to get that perspective.