Dark Knight Megathread

The only thing DRK is good for in Frontline is going in with a premade in voice call and using Salted Earth to set up for a fat Limit break play. The class does nothing else and has no other options especially compared to how it used to be.
You cant even chase people down or poke at any range like the class used to be able to.

Other than that you'll be basically afking in your party. maybe getting to plunge some straggler every now and then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

The only thing DRK is good for in Frontline is going in with a premade in voice call and using Salted Earth to set up for a fat Limit break play. The class does nothing else and has no other options especially compared to how it used to be.
You cant even chase people down or poke at any range like the class used to be able to.

Other than that you'll be basically afking in your party. maybe getting to plunge some straggler every now and then.

---

Salted Earth pulls people in and has mitigation, so the DRK should pull people in and stay for survivability, while players who can stun hit everyone inside SE so they take the whole DoT. Perfect synergy... except that a situation like that never happens in practice.

Eventide makes you unkillable for 10 seconds... except that you always get stunlocked during your immunity window, unable to move or even heal. All you did was wasting 10 seconds of the enemies' time. Wow, so great.

Everything works perfectly if you consider no context at all, am I right? It's almost like none of this was play tested...

Talking about Salted Earth, PvE wise...

In 6.0 Dark Knight lost the ground targeting, while it's sort of a QoL, we also lost the flexibility of placing it where we want.
In some cases, though rare, it can be annoying after we need to move a boss.

With WHM and SCH getting increased ranged for Sacred Soil and Asylum, wouldn't it be a good idea to also increase Salted Earth radius?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SylviaCrystal

Salted Earth pulls people in and has mitigation, so the DRK should pull people in and stay for survivability, while players who can stun hit everyone inside SE so they take the whole DoT. Perfect synergy... except that a situation like that never happens in practice.

Eventide makes you unkillable for 10 seconds... except that you always get stunlocked during your immunity window, unable to move or even heal. All you did was wasting 10 seconds of the enemies' time. Wow, so great.

Everything works perfectly if you consider no context at all, am I right? It's almost like none of this was play tested...

---

Pretty sure it was... for their new pvp mode. The entire job rework is essentially balanced on being 5v5 on a relatively small map, but throw that same design into the old pvp modes with 24v24v24 on a big map and it completely falls apart.

Granted I'm not in the least surprised by this, even WoW, which in my opinion had one of the most solid pvp experiences I've ever played (during TBC, WotLK and Cataclysm), struggled when the same design was used in vastly different environments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SylviaCrystal

After playing DRK on PvP for a while, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do in Frontline. It seems balanced around pulling people in with Salted Earth and hoping for the rare occasion that your team will follow through (most times they don't).

I don't have any ranged options outside of Shadowbringer, which is only 10y. I don't have any actions that stun, so people just walk away from my SE after the 3s bind from Salt and Darkness. Previously I could pull people individually with Weapon Throw...

Most of the time I see myself stalling behind my team and waiting for my LB bar to fill up so I can use Eventide. If I dare to jump in with Plunge to use SE I just get stunlocked to death by 7 White Mages, even with Purify. I have no counter play and fishing people with Salted Earth isn't being much fun to me so far. It's not so bad in Crystaline Conflict tho.

I get the feeling that they made a bunch of cool stuff that would be awesome in PvE (Salted Earth with mitigation, Sole Survivor on Plunge, managing HP instead of MP) and put in on PvP, but in PvP it doesn't work because of infinite stunlock and CC.

---

Because you and oizen are playing frontlines wrong, you're talking about chasing people down etc, why? It's an objective game, stop being one of the annoying people fighting in the middle of nowhere and get to the objective. If a Drk is sitting on an objective with a couple of teammates to back them, Good look getting them off the point. Go near the point Dark will pull you in and their team destorys you while you're rooted next to the Drk who is also hammering you.

Dark is a Tank, in PVE and PVP they will play like a tank. If you want to be the chase down burst DPS I recommend playing dragoon or pretty much any melee DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malthir

Because you and oizen are playing frontlines wrong, you're talking about chasing people down etc, why? It's an objective game, stop being one of the annoying people fighting in the middle of nowhere and get to the objective. If a Drk is sitting on an objective with a couple of teammates to back them, Good look getting them off the point. Go near the point Dark will pull you in and their team destorys you while you're rooted next to the Drk who is also hammering you.

Dark is a Tank, in PVE and PVP they will play like a tank. If you want to be the chase down burst DPS I recommend playing dragoon or pretty much any melee DPS.

---

I like how you just assumed my playstyle. I sit on the objective like anyone else, but the other teams hunt us down because they're not stupid. I have to fight back at some point, and when that point comes, I have no counter play outside of pointlessly trying to fish people with Salted Earth.

White Mage is a healer, but they don't sit down healing all day. They have a very broken LB that stuns everyone and supports the team AND they're ranged, so they can attack from behind the team and support them at the same time. Stop making excuses.

Do I have to say anything about WAR, who's also a tank, and has... how many stun actions again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malthir

If a Drk is sitting on an objective with a couple of teammates to back them

---

PvP is called like that for a reason. You're not fighting an enemy with a predefined moveset. You can't just assume that everything is fine just because the best case scenario works. Here's what you do in the worst case scenario, after seeing your "couple of teammates" getting rekt after trying your best to support them: you pop Eventide, then Sprint... and hope that you won't get stunlocked as you try to run the f away lol

It was kind of fun reading through some old HW threads when I guess DRK's biggest issue was its lack of OT capabilities. Guess that was WAR's spot while PLD and DRK duked it out for MT. Also the fact that even used to be a conversation is pretty wild :p

Funnily enough there were also a few threads asking what DRK's identity was compared to PLD and WAR lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baklava151

Funnily enough there were also a few threads asking what DRK's identity was compared to PLD and WAR lol.

---

When a job exchanges its identity to be accessible without assessing the risks of potentially losing its framework then you get DRK. Only the original designer knows what makes this job enjoyable not a different job designer.

Think they should take a good look of what was right about HW DRK and combine that with their current design philosophy. It's not going to be overly overwhelming I believe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shin96

Think they should take a good look of what was right about HW DRK and combine that with their current design philosophy. It's not going to be overly overwhelming I believe.

---

Aaand personally I think they should be free to consider something not constrained by either precedented philosophy.
The current design philosophy is an oversimplified version of WAR, created as a result of the devs' own dissatisfaction with the complexity and direction of HW DRK -- in other words, both have flaws, and the best choice isn't necessarily a middle ground between the iterations, because after all DRK already existed in that middle ground for Stormblood and Shadowbringers. Limiting themselves only to a sliding scale between the past and present stifles potential creativity that the job desperately needs right now.

Now I'm not saying "scrap the job and start all over" -- they can reuse assets and familiar skills that already exist as they find the openings for them to their hearts' content. The 1-2-3 combo and staple tools like Grit and Shadow Wall aren't going anywhere.
But the priority shouldn't be on "HW did X better and Y worse" or "EW did Y better and X worse", it should be on "What makes DRK a choice for a tank in the first place?" and "What should DRK be able to do that no other tank could do the same or better?"

Yoshi-P said he wants DRK to feel like a magical tank. Alright. So where's the magic?
Because right now that's only reflected in "spell" tags that don't benefit from skill speed, and some unaspected damage here and there.
Oh, and Dark Mind. Talk about impractical identity tools.
Turn off the spell effects and you've got Cloud Strife sans melee LBs, not a particularly magical job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SylviaCrystal

After playing DRK on PvP for a while, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do in Frontline. It seems balanced around pulling people in with Salted Earth and hoping for the rare occasion that your team will follow through (most times they don't).

I don't have any ranged options outside of Shadowbringer, which is only 10y. I don't have any actions that stun, so people just walk away from my SE after the 3s bind from Salt and Darkness. Previously I could pull people individually with Weapon Throw...

Most of the time I see myself stalling behind my team and waiting for my LB bar to fill up so I can use Eventide. If I dare to jump in with Plunge to use SE I just get stunlocked to death by 7 White Mages, even with Purify. I have no counter play and fishing people with Salted Earth isn't being much fun to me so far. It's not so bad in Crystaline Conflict tho.

I get the feeling that they made a bunch of cool stuff that would be awesome in PvE (Salted Earth with mitigation, Sole Survivor on Plunge, managing HP instead of MP) and put in on PvP, but in PvP it doesn't work because of infinite stunlock and CC.

---

I tried DRK as well but I feel that the current dmg meta is not suited for some jobs like PLD and DRK who are clearly more focused on control. I've seen a decent DRK/SMN combo in FL where the DRK salts and the smn drops slip to lock players in. However co-ordination is uncommon in pvp and that was only a one off. Imo pvp atm is like yugioh in the TCG. A lot of single strong abilities that can win games and combo focused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marxam

I tried DRK as well but I feel that the current dmg meta is not suited for some jobs like PLD and DRK who are clearly more focused on control. I've seen a decent DRK/SMN combo in FL where the DRK salts and the smn drops slip to lock players in. However co-ordination is uncommon in pvp and that was only a one off. Imo pvp atm is like yugioh in the TCG. A lot of single strong abilities that can win games and combo focused.

---

Yeah, it's good to pull a couple people in with Salted Earth and watch your teammates smack them down, but those rare occasions of team co-ordination don't make up for the time I spend stalling and waiting for prey to catch with my SE. Feels like I'm playing Fisher instead of DRK.

Just copying something I said in another DRK thread, after a long absence:
The use of HP as a ressource is a great callback in PVP, and while for obvious reasons it would be absolute chaos to implement in PVE I think some ideas could be taken from it.
Either use MP instead, straightforward enough, or make Darkside a ressource you refill by spending MP (the same way you'll refill your HP with the generic healing skill in PvP). Some abilities will consume it, others will either refill it or give you MP back to refill it with other skills.
But having to actually manage a ressource feels good and I hope it comes back to PVE DRK.

I, like most people, rarely get on here to thank or praise SE but thank you for patch 6.1 changes to DRK - took way too long but thank you all the same.

That being said, do you think there is any chance to lower CS/AD to 30 seconds? Take the damage off AD by half its current value or take it completely off and add a bleeding effect to c&s that instead of doing damage adds a regen?

I hate the argument but I’m going to use it anyway. Every other tank has a heal built into their combos, heals built into their cool new lvl 82 cds, and has substantial heals outside of that. Because this game is built on spike damage I’m asking for at least one method of controlling healing.

What about a “soul survivor” effect on oblation. It’s no secret it’s effect is underwhelming compared to the other 82s. Whatever HP is mitigated is returned after the effect. Too strong? Maybe but % can be tweaked. After all it’s only a 10% mitigation. It will rarely save you this is just to smooth out the damage spikes in between tbn. It maintains an element of risk versus reward for DRK since you can’t abuse it since it’s on a timer. I’m guessing that risk vs reward is the new theme since tbn appears to be staying as the only tank that keeps their short cd with a resource needed.

There’s two ideas, I’m only interested in doing 1 of them or something similar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalaam

Just copying something I said in another DRK thread, after a long absence:
The use of HP as a ressource is a great callback in PVP, and while for obvious reasons it would be absolute chaos to implement in PVE I think some ideas could be taken from it.
Either use MP instead, straightforward enough, or make Darkside a ressource you refill by spending MP (the same way you'll refill your HP with the generic healing skill in PvP). Some abilities will consume it, others will either refill it or give you MP back to refill it with other skills.
But having to actually manage a ressource feels good and I hope it comes back to PVE DRK.

---

The reason DRK doesn't use MP in PVP is because the new heal spam system is tied to it, DRK would get a massive nerf if that had to compete with its actual skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

The reason DRK doesn't use MP in PVP is because the new heal spam system is tied to it, DRK would get a massive nerf if that had to compete with its actual skills.

---

Yeah I know, i'm talking about PVE using MP instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalaam

or make Darkside a ressource you refill by spending MP (the same way you'll refill your HP with the generic healing skill in PvP). Some abilities will consume it, others will either refill it or give you MP back to refill it with other skills.
But having to actually manage a ressource feels good and I hope it comes back to PVE DRK.

---

...What difference would that make, though?

Presently, we refill our MP to use MP in ways that are themselves beneficial and capable of a unique degree of banking.

Having us instead refill our MP to fill another gauge to then get something of value, unless there are new and enjoyable gameplay loops therein you've simply yet to describe, isn't adding complexity so much as convolution.

Thus far, our only real example of that has been the Blood-Mana relationship of Blood Weapon and Quietus, back when Quietus could, via BW, generate MP and Blood per enemy struck and thus refund itself, offering BW further power in AoE.

In typical raids, though, the difference between, say, TBN awarding 50 Blood (essentially, the potency of Bloodspiller over average combo ppgcd) as compared to, in effect, MP (the potency of Edge of Shadow) was almost nil; in ST, the resource "interplay" was ultimately no deeper than now.

So, what would make this new gauge (or, this change to make our existing Darkside gauge newly worth showing on our screens) capable of resource interplay? If we're just doubling bar-watching without anything more to get out of it, that is not a positive improvement.

That I do not know, it could generate blood or just have different ways to build it (both a MP dump like edge/flood are as of now, and some other actions like a weaponskill or ogcd).
It could just straight up use MP the same way HP is used in PvP too, though since this ressource is so static it might not feel as good.
Maybe by having a MP drain effect again ? I don't know, it is just a suggestion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalaam

I don't know, it is just a suggestion.

---

That's fair. And I apologize for seeming to require you to have all the answers from the start.

My concern is just that many here (on the forums, broadly, but also on this thread in particular) seem to think that just throwing additional on-paper complexity at the job will necessarily produce improved gameplay, despite that greater on-paper complexity actually allowing for fewer options and thus less in-practice complexity, let alone gameplay improvements.

That's understandable.
Adding complexity without creating a satisfying loop or mechanics wouldn't work. I'm of course not suggesting slapping a sudden tight ressource management without changing anything about the kit ahah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalaam

Just copying something I said in another DRK thread, after a long absence:
The use of HP as a ressource is a great callback in PVP, and while for obvious reasons it would be absolute chaos to implement in PVE I think some ideas could be taken from it.
Either use MP instead, straightforward enough, or make Darkside a ressource you refill by spending MP (the same way you'll refill your HP with the generic healing skill in PvP). Some abilities will consume it, others will either refill it or give you MP back to refill it with other skills.
But having to actually manage a ressource feels good and I hope it comes back to PVE DRK.

---

There is also a third option.
HP becomes a resource for an attack on charges, but MP skills replenish your HP. Essentially the same A to C path, but routed through B -- the extra step giving you some flexibility in your tanking style.

It creates a possibility for self-sustain through MP-based skills which DRK badly needs, offers options for risk-reward by gambling an amount of HP you think is worthwhile, and gives you a loop so you aren't just overhealing with Souleater when you're offtanking, pooling your MP to heal right after a big spender or during bursts.
And, crucially, isn't something any other tank can do or justify, given Dark Knight's extensive history.

And then when you are main-tanking, they can go a step further with the PVP callback and have Dark Arts make your next cast of the HP spender free. If the attack's on a fixed number of charges and gaining/spending Dark Arts isn't a resource shared with any other type of ability, you're not wasting any resources if the boss doesn't break your bubble, just more efficiently staying alive.

Plus, it means that we can bring in classic Darkness skills and take AD back off CD for an MP cost.

Then we just have to figure out what to do with the Blood Gauge.

I was thinking how bad it feels when you use TBN and it doesn't break (be it a healer shielded you, the mob didn't feel like attacking ect) so why not do this.

Night's Embrace: Heals target for the amount remaining on the barrier.

That would give the Dark Knight some much needed sustain while also allowing to heal others and makes TBN not breaking not feel as horrible.

I would also like them to utilize Abyssal Drain more. I feel there is more that can be done with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archwizard

There is also a third option.
HP becomes a resource for an attack on charges, but MP skills replenish your HP. Essentially the same A to C path, but routed through B -- the extra step giving you some flexibility in your tanking style.

It creates a possibility for self-sustain through MP-based skills which DRK badly needs, offers options for risk-reward by gambling an amount of HP you think is worthwhile, and gives you a loop so you aren't just overhealing with Souleater when you're offtanking, pooling your MP to heal right after a big spender or during bursts.
And, crucially, isn't something any other tank can do or justify, given Dark Knight's extensive history.

And then when you are main-tanking, they can go a step further with the PVP callback and have Dark Arts make your next cast of the HP spender free. If the attack's on a fixed number of charges and gaining/spending Dark Arts isn't a resource shared with any other type of ability, you're not wasting any resources if the boss doesn't break your bubble, just more efficiently staying alive.

Plus, it means that we can bring in classic Darkness skills and take AD back off CD for an MP cost.

Then we just have to figure out what to do with the Blood Gauge.

---

I think it'd work on a melee DPS but on a tank the risk of getting hit a bit too much when you're spending your HP is too high, and it'd feel bad to not attack to wait until it is safe to do so again. I think.
Darkside could just be a buff that drains MP continuously to give that sense of danger between it going down and our skills eating it away. Blood gauge I guess would be the main build/spend stuff that could restore big chunks of MP ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LoadedVirus

I was thinking how bad it feels when you use TBN and it doesn't break (be it a healer shielded you, the mob didn't feel like attacking ect) so why not do this.

Night's Embrace: Heals target for the amount remaining on the barrier.

That would give the Dark Knight some much needed sustain while also allowing to heal others and makes TBN not breaking not feel as horrible.

---

True, though when you get healed while the shield is up, or use it preemptively the heal is then lost since you're already full health. Maybe making it a regen that lasts almost until the CD is up ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shin96

I would also like them to utilize Abyssal Drain more. I feel there is more that can be done with that.

---

Abyssal Drain has always been screaming to me to become a no CD, 3000 MP move that can be used with a Dark Arts stack.

I feel like that alone would give DRK a much better dungeon experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalaam

I think it'd work on a melee DPS but on a tank the risk of getting hit a bit too much when you're spending your HP is too high, and it'd feel bad to not attack to wait until it is safe to do so again.

---

So long as it's on charges, that much would be fine.

More crucial though is that the skill can't be particularly frequent, or you introduce a "give me HoTs just so I can DPS more" loop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

Abyssal Drain has always been screaming to me to become a no CD, 3000 MP move that can be used with a Dark Arts stack.

I feel like that alone would give DRK a much better dungeon experience.

---

I take it we're effectively removing Flood of Shadows, then? Or are we nerfing Abyssal's offensive potency so the prior might still be worth using?

Dear Dev tean i want to show apreciation about the recent changes of DRK and i hope you keep improving the job experience but i want you still to reconsider extensively the current direction of the job and gameplay experience.

- PVP salted earth feels nice and powerful in both ofense and defense at contrary to the PVE version of the skill, please consider add similar effects and impact on the PVE version of the skill.

- Darkside doesn't feel rewarding at all due the amount of Darkside time we generate every 60s, feels like a waste and a unnecesary mechanic that offers nothing gameplay wise since DRK don't wanna be never at full mp in the first place and the extra time get wasted bcs of that, please reconsider the ganancy of Darkside time and what skills grant it or just remove the mechanic entirely and add a 10% damage up trait instead so his gauge is not wasting space on screen.

- The pace of the job "15s of burst -> 45s of emptiness souleater spam -> 15s burst -> 45s of emptiness souleater spam" is extremly boring and uninteresting, im well aware that some players like current pace overthere in Japan but i wan't you to please be considerate with those who like the busy gameplay originally DRK had and spread the oGCD usage all over the 60s rotation more.

- Abyssal drain and carve and spit sharing CD feels wrong and not rewarding considering Abyssal drain is not a gain under less that 4 targets, Abyssal drain use to be an important and rewarding spell back in HW and SB and i want you to repurpose the skill to make it feel rewarding to use even if is only on AOE situations like originally was.

- DRk Unmend and living shadow Traits feel very unrewarding and add nothing gameplay wise, i would request Unmend trait be removed all together and Living shadow traits combined in to 1 and get new traits that improve the job experience and cohesion of the skills.

- Delirium is still the same Inner release skill + the new 60s recast being the same with Bloodweapon make no sense having both skills being separated in the first place, i want you to Delete Delirium and Boost Blood weapon effects so DRK stop having exactly the same skill execution WAR have in order to improve DRK unique gameplay feel.

- Dark mind feel pretty arbitrary due his magic only making feel like the job had 1 CD less if magic damage is not pressent like Dungeons pulls, i want you to add an extra effect to make it more all around and stop feeling like a useless buttom most of the time.

- Obliation feels extremly weak for being an stand alone buff, i want you to strengh his effect or make the skill become a direct upgrade of another one like shadow wall or Dark mind.

I'll would apreciate if you have more consideration about DRK players that loved the original desing of the job and keep improving the gameplay experience in that direction, im aware there is some ppl pleased with the current simplicity and streamline desing but feels extremly unrewarding for a person like me who always mained the original desing philosophy and has been taken away without any consideration, i would love to feel apreciated again by the Dev team and have my wishes and the ones who share my thougs for the job being considerated, i want to enjoy the game like i used to be again, thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

So long as it's on charges, that much would be fine.

More crucial though is that the skill can't be particularly frequent, or you introduce a "give me HoTs just so I can DPS more" loop.


I take it we're effectively removing Flood of Shadows, then? Or are we nerfing Abyssal's offensive potency so the prior might still be worth using?

---

Flood is already stronger than Abyssal?

Not by much but the idea should be Damage or Healing honestly.

At 90 Flood does better damage so it wouldn't be an issue, maybe a slight nerf on AD to emphasize that you're picking healing over damage. With the recent 6.1 nerf to Flood of Shadow though, there's an awkward time before you get the Darkside Mastery trait at 74 where AD does more damage than Flood. They'd need to do some numbers adjusting for that but I think it's manageable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

Flood is already stronger than Abyssal?

Not by much but the idea should be Damage or Healing honestly.

---

You're going to trade 200 potency of healing per target for... 10 more potency in damage?

Else, that's... not worth keeping on one's bars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

So long as it's on charges, that much would be fine.

More crucial though is that the skill can't be particularly frequent, or you introduce a "give me HoTs just so I can DPS more" loop.

---

I should think that as long as the charges put a fixed upper limit on the number of uses you have (not unlike our MP is for Flood/Edge), whether or not you beg for HoTs becomes a waste of raid DPS and source of overhealing provided that Drain (or any single-target variant) can largely repay that cost, but I can only speak from a theoretical standpoint.

"Particularly frequent" is a bit of a tricky statement though. Too long between uses and you could acquire multiple DAs before a single charge is spent, so we probably want to keep its CD and TBN's close together (or just scrap the idea of having DA subvert HP costs at all, returning to exactly what we have now).
Around a 30 sec CD and 2-3 charges ought to work I think? Assuming TBN is normalized due to not using MP anymore, the spender CD would be slightly longer than an on-demand but the additional charges will allow you to line up DAs for most of the encounter...

Alternately they could do something wild and make it so the cost paid to use DRK's HP-spending skills can only be repaid by DRK somehow, like putting a debuff on his max HP based on how much HP he paid, which he has to cleanse with his personal healing skills.

Quote:

---

I take it we're effectively removing Flood of Shadows, then?

---

I would be for it. As I said before, they could recycle effects that exist as needed -- for instance, having Flood of Shadow/Darkness become the HP-consuming action and retain its Dark Arts interaction, or a lower-level holdover for (if we take the PvP inspiration to its most literal extent) Shadowbringer.

But as far as making Abyssal Drain take Flood's current position as the AoE MP spender, I'm for it, and it's a functionally irrelevant distinction in raid content anyway.
What happens to Edge, if anything at all, is the slightly more important question for that. And again, none of the loop I've proposed has any consideration for the place of Blackblood skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archwizard

What happens to Edge, if anything at all, is the slightly more important question for that. And again, none of the loop I've proposed has any consideration for the place of Blackblood skills.

---

I dunno if it'd be overkill but i think Edge could perhaps work like Death Strike from WoW's DKs, which heals you for a small amount baseline but scales up with the damage you took in the last 5 seconds.
I don't know if it's gonna fit with the current game content, but that's a reaction based lifesteal playstyle that i very much enjoyed.

As a matter of fact, didn't they say that they wanted to introduce ''parries'' to tank defensives before endwalker?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DannyDeDitto

As a matter of fact, didn't they say that they wanted to introduce ''parries'' to tank defensives before endwalker?

---

They were hyping up the idea of having you time your on-demand cooldown for a stronger effect.
In other words, the level 82 effects for non-DRK tanks that double their mitigation for 4 sec. Admittedly it's something TBN kinda covers the need for already, since it's effectively a full damage negate for a limited period that rewards DA for timing it; the problem is more the lack of all the sustain and mitigation that comes afterward for other tanks.

As for a 'reactive' healing effect, 14's closest analogue is effects like Microcosmos and Earth's Reply, where it counts incoming damage for a period and then heals for a percentage of that afterward. Unlike WoW's version however, they need to be consciously pre-cast; presumably the server can't be trusted to log the last few seconds of combat for every player.
If you're less set on the "last 5 seconds" aspect though, there's also the option to just... scale up healing as HP gets lower, a la ED.

SAM LB in pvp, in conjunction with chiten, is literally a parry bait. You put up a buff and if ppl hit you, while you have LB, they get one shot. It's like punishing R1 spammers in souls games with your shield up then parry the 2nd hit. Otherwise we haven't seen "tank parries" since HW when shield swipe and low blow procs were a thing.

I like the idea of reactionary, short cds but there needs to be a pay off for doing it optimally. TBN is the closest but all it does is be dmg neutral, and that's only if it procs. If TBN gave you 3k mp and an additional 9 secs of mp regen with 1k ticks then it would be more rewarding. All the other tank cds either give you burst heals, huge mitigation and/or regens but are much more forgiving in a way that rewards good play for experts while not discouraging newer players from failing.

The next thing I'd really like to see changed on this class is Living Shadow's summon animation. Right now its duration is 24 seconds, but it doesn't start attacking until the 17 second mark.

Its so hard to time this skill to fully take benefits with raid buffs, you basically have to predict them coming.
Which I mean, it can be done but if you get unsynced from it, you're not getting that shit back on track.

Change Living Shadow to Eventide, where Fray appears and you do a double slash together.
Fixed.

I'm always down for changing Living Shadow to just about anything else

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

The next thing I'd really like to see changed on this class is Living Shadow's summon animation. Right now its duration is 24 seconds, but it doesn't start attacking until the 17 second mark.

Its so hard to time this skill to fully take benefits with raid buffs, you basically have to predict them coming.
Which I mean, it can be done but if you get unsynced from it, you're not getting that shit back on track.

---

I propose they change it so Fray is summoned in only two seconds, but for the first second you can see him T-Posing.

I'm really wanting them to bring back resource management to DRK in PvE. If I could get anything, just make it so Bloodspiller and Quietus cost Darkside to use (15s) in addition to the Blood Gauge cost, and then our Edge/Flood uses become more about keeping Darkside up than just damage.

Definitely would be nice for the "resource management" tank to do more with resources than build and spend under raid buffs like everyone else

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

The next thing I'd really like to see changed on this class is Living Shadow's summon animation. Right now its duration is 24 seconds, but it doesn't start attacking until the 17 second mark.

Its so hard to time this skill to fully take benefits with raid buffs, you basically have to predict them coming.
Which I mean, it can be done but if you get unsynced from it, you're not getting that shit back on track.

---

Let's be honest, both Living Shadow and Automaton Queen may look flashy but they're essentially glorified DoTs with some extra clunkyness.

I wouldn't shed a tear if they were replaced by something else.