Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaellok

Incorrect. You can only gain lilies when you cast cure/cure2 while in combat. Based on the exact wording of the tool-tip, it may also be impossible to gain a lily proc or confession stack unless the player is missing hp at the time the cure lands.

Referenced from the E3 build screenshots: https://imgur.com/gallery/5RYol

---

Well thats good to know. Thanks for the correction :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaellok

snip

---

Unless someone else jumps to it, I'll probably make the thread a week after Official Launch. Should be long enough for us to level to 70 and experience the content and build our opinions on whether or not the content requires enough healing to make Lilies more plentiful and therefore more useful than what we currently view it as.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaellok

(And don't get me wrong, they are AMAZING for 4-man dungeons, it should be fun as hell in there.

---

But only SB dungeons, because in the earlier ones we'll feel hobbled unless we're running them completely overgeared with other veterans (which I don't do, because it's boring). I do think it has potential in PVP too, it's just that PVP and Expert Roulette alone can't keep me interested unless off peak PVP queue times improve massively in future.

For me it's not a mechanical throughput issue (I'm not a hardcore raider and I'm not going to pretend to be one). It's a satisfaction thing. As a long term healer who takes a lot of pride in my versatility, I don't feel satisfied by the cut-down new WHM, even if there are clearly some overall improvements to the core game system - which are also improvements for AST at the same time.

As a long-suffering pad player I seriously never thought I'd be complaining about having barely any buttons to press ;p

I find all of the "shut up and stop being so dramatic" posts pretty tiresome considering the fact that WHM is the most nerfed job in the game by a considerable margin. At this point even trivial nerfs are going to pull at least a "REALLY!?" from WHM loyalists. The drama tantrums aren't single-issue. There's a multi-expansion trend. Nerfs to Medica 2 (while the fairy still has the ability to throw out an AOE regen that's similar to the old version), Holy, Stoneskin, etc. Vanishingly few nerfs to the already widely-considered OP Scholar while those nerfs took place. Extra attention to the new job that progressed into buffing them to Scholar levels of OP. Extra salt rubbed in there because Astro's base kit is pretty much WHM's, but the original spent the previous expansion getting clubbed with the nerf bat and the newbie got buffed to a point they're arguably stronger than the original kit.

My point here isn't to go through a laundry list of rants about some petty issues people barely remember from years ago, it's to remind that WHMs have years of "why are they nerfing that? Ugh I guess we'll deal" job adjustment patches. Scholars have been allowed to remain OP for so long that I know more than one career WHM who thought that maybe we'd sit on that throne for a patch or two...but now see our kit with a starglobe getting an OP crown while we get nerfed again with a huge round of skill removal. Jealousy is petty, but it's there.

I enjoy the class lore of WHM. I'm not really interested in Astro. I'm getting bored of being nerfed. I will likely swap mains until I see the dev team make mid-expansion adjustments to WHM that don't begin with "potency reduced by..." I don't think this is unreasonable or over the top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Semirhage

I find all of the "shut up and stop being so dramatic" posts pretty tiresome considering the fact that WHM is the most nerfed job in the game by a considerable margin. At this point even trivial nerfs are going to pull at least a "REALLY!?" from WHM loyalists.

---

It's back to the Tanaka Inquisition era all over again. You thank the stars it wasn't your turn to get the nerf bat, berate those complaining in hopes the inquisition doesn't come after you next.

NO ONE EXPECTS THE NERFISH INQUISITION!!!

* This post is, in part, sarcastic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Semirhage

I find all of the "shut up and stop being so dramatic" posts pretty tiresome considering the fact that WHM is the most nerfed job in the game by a considerable margin.

I enjoy the class lore of WHM. I'm not really interested in Astro. I'm getting bored of being nerfed. I will likely swap mains until I see the dev team make mid-expansion adjustments to WHM that don't begin with "potency reduced by..." I don't think this is unreasonable or over the top.

---

The reason there's such backlash is because of the way the majority word it. You have some people here in this thread that have made wonderful points. It's much easier to listen to someone who goes "Here is the issue..." compared to someone who says "Trash..simply trash..I mean..fire them all..." Theorizing and saying "This is the most likely result" vs standing on solid ground saying how bad things are is the only way.

Not saying either side is right or wrong. As a white mage myself since 1.0, I liked reading what others had to say up until they get cruel with it. We know the potential problems thanks to some of the people here, and these issues might be 90% dead on, but until we go out and play there's that possibility that it's not as bad.

So all these people who are saying "stop" are mainly saying how they hear you, understand how things could play out like this and maybe you're right. All they're asking is for is for you who theorized so heavily (and have done a wonderful job) to do the same with full access to the content.

The pre-release problem theorizing is done, we know what's there. Now lets wait to see what comes of it. You can continue to test, guess on possible outcomes. It's when they go beyond theories and show it off as 100%, start acting cruel and repeating it 100x others just..don't care anymore.

Or maybe this is because the entire ordeal is like talking to my wife. She will bring home food, taste it and tell me how horrible it is for the next 10 - 15 minutes. After the first two times I don't care, I'll taste it soon and we can see if it was just her or am I part of the group too. Sometimes she's right, sometimes she's wrong. Wonderful, we've gotten a taste of white mage..people don't like the taste. Now lets sample the full course to make sure, then you can rant and complain until your hearts can't take anymore.

Then again it's your right to complain now still, just know it doesn't come off as reasonable but as a red faced child screaming in the toy isle.

To those who made the valid arguments, thank you because those might have helped in some last minute decisions. Either way..see you in StormBlood!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Semirhage

Quote

---

What part of the proclaimed OP Scholar is there? We are nerfed in Bane, Shadow Flare, Fey Illumination, Aetherflow and Embrace. Miasma II, Blizzard II and Super Virus are deleted. Chain Strategem will more than likely end up adding a 2% extra crit chance. The deletion of current Cleric stance makes the pet less relevant either. So what is it about Scholar now that is truly OP and how is WHM nerfed considerably harder, really?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starflake

What part of the proclaimed OP Scholar is there? We are nerfed in Bane, Shadow Flare, Fey Illumination, Aetherflow and Embrace. Miasma II, Blizzard II and Super Virus are deleted. Chain Strategem will more than likely end up adding a 2% extra crit chance. The deletion of current Cleric stance makes the pet less relevant either. So what is it about Scholar now that is truly OP and how is WHM nerfed considerably harder, really?

---

Yeah idk why people are whining about WHM when SCH got the nerfbazooka and AST is really the only healer that got anything that looks like a buff. But "WHM dead" tho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Yeah idk why people are whining about WHM when SCH got the nerfbazooka and AST is really the only healer that got anything that looks like a buff. But "WHM dead" tho.

---

Maybe because SCH lost their crazy aoe damage which was a luxury, not an essential component of their kit while still receiving incredible new abilities and barely losing anything to the role system. SCH gets better single target healing which has always been a weakness of theirs, an amazing utility heal that people aren't talking about enough in Excogitation, a boost to their heal efficiency in the swap to Cleric's stance, new damage utility, and they get access to 2 incredible role skills they never had before.

By comparison, WHM lost more skills than any job in the game to the cross-role system as a Job with an already sparse kit. Their only new ability which isn't simply more overhealing is a shield, for which they lost a shield (Stoneskin). No new utility, none of their previous weaknesses covered. The closest thing to a meaningful NEW ability WHM is getting is in Thin Air, which, realistically, does nothing in difficult content unless MP values have been inflated to make it valuable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryahask

Maybe because SCH lost their crazy aoe damage which was a luxury, not an essential component of their kit

---

They lost 2 DoTs; one from their main kit and one from cross-role while also losing a ton of AoE damage

Quote:

---

SCH gets better single target healing which has always been a weakness of theirs

---

Since when? They've always lacked in AoE healing and been the best single target healer due to stacking Physick and Fairy heals with Lustrate and Fey Illumination lol. Embrace lost 50 potency btw.

Quote:

---

Their only new ability which isn't simply more overhealing is a shield, for which they lost a shield (Stoneskin)

---

10% MP 3 Second Cast vs. 15% No Cost Instant Cast? Sounds good.

Quote:

---

none of their previous weaknesses covered.

---

MP Management?

Quote:

---

The closest thing to a meaningful NEW ability WHM is getting is in Thin Air, which, realistically, does nothing in difficult content unless MP values have been inflated to make it valuable.

---

Do you not know about WHM's long standing battle with MP Management?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryahask

Maybe because SCH lost their crazy aoe damage which was a luxury, not an essential component of their kit while still receiving incredible new abilities and barely losing anything to the role system. SCH gets better single target healing which has always been a weakness of theirs, an amazing utility heal that people aren't talking about enough in Excogitation, a boost to their heal efficiency in the swap to Cleric's stance, new damage utility, and they get access to 2 incredible role skills they never had before.

By comparison, WHM lost more skills than any job in the game to the cross-role system as a Job with an already sparse kit. Their only new ability which isn't simply more overhealing is a shield, for which they lost a shield (Stoneskin). No new utility, none of their previous weaknesses covered. The closest thing to a meaningful NEW ability WHM is getting is in Thin Air, which, realistically, does nothing in difficult content unless MP values have been inflated to make it valuable.

---

Single target healing was a weakness? Do you even play Scholar? lol If anything, Excog was not even needed. It's the perfect CD to have with how Cleric Stance used to work, but as of now it's just a slightly better Lustrate that you'll only ever get off on a tank. While we didn't lose as much as WHM to role skills, I'll feel the loss of Virus more than the benefits of gaining a 20% heal buff that, again, wasn't even needed for the job.

Also, Thin Air could potentially make WHM the easiest job to manage MP on, considering most ASTs won't be wanting to use Ewers. If the MP costs are reflective of what we've been used to in HW, SCH will easily have the hardest time in that department too. WHM may not have received much, but it didn't get nerfed anywhere near as hard as SCH. And with N.AST retaining a 15% heal increase, it's more than valid for SCHs to be feeling a little shafted from what we're seeing. I'm still reserving judgement for now, but now that we have numbers it's looking a little bleak for for both except AST who continues to get buffed even now. :'D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

10% MP 3 Second Cast vs. 15% No Cost Instant Cast? Sounds good.

---

I think you missed the fact that it now has a half minute cooldown and requires at least a cast of Cure II to use with the added bonus of being restricted in use if you want to use Lilies for something else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niroken

I think you missed the fact that it now has a half minute cooldown and requires at least a cast of Cure II to use with the added bonus of being restricted in use if you want to use Lilies for something else.

---

Cure I is 50% chance of getting a Lily and Cure II is 100% so it's unlikely you won't have a Lily when you need to use the shield, and why would you ever need a shield more than once every 30 seconds? Tank Busters don't happen that often. Did you really waste your MP using Stoneskin that often?

I made a post earlier in this thread about some of the things I didn't think where designed very well on WHM, and since I've got nothing better to do, I thought I might post about some things I think are neat additions to WHM to add a little contrast.

Thin Air looks really good. WHM has been a class that has been able to burn large amount of MP to do cool stuff. That fact that we can go into one of these burns without burning is pretty cool.

Stoneskin -> DB. I am really looking forward to this. The majority of the time SS and SSII were dead skills. Cure II > SS. SSII couldn't be used in combat. Then if you didn't have a WHM you occasionally had to wait on healers to cast all SS before you could start. While I did appreciate SC SSII for dungeons, I am happy to see it go. DB seems like it will actually be useful in every fight.

Rescue. This has been on my wish list for a long time. Can't wait.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Cure I is 50% chance of getting a Lily and Cure II is 100% so it's unlikely you won't have a Lily when you need to use the shield, and why would you ever need a shield more than once every 30 seconds? Tank Busters don't happen that often. Did you really waste your MP using Stoneskin that often?

---

The bottom line is that in terms of practicality where you the new shield will be useful, Stoneskin already was. Did it have a higher cost? Yeah, but it wasn't too significant. To be clear, I do think Benison will be better. There's no doubt there, but a massive improvement? Eh, not really.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

They lost 2 DoTs; one from their main kit and one from cross-role while also losing a ton of AoE damage

---

DoTs are being consolidated across the board, this isn't a SCH specific issue. So, they've lost AoE damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Since when? They've always lacked in AoE healing and been the best single target healer due to stacking Physick and Fairy heals with Lustrate and Fey Illumination lol. Embrace lost 50 potency btw.

---

They still retain Fey Illumination, it's now a cross class skill. I should have specified; outside of Aetherflow SCH has always lacked considerable single target heals, now they have yet another avenue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

MP Management?
Do you not know about WHM's long standing battle with MP Management?

---

I think you misunderstand being the only Job that actually has MP management (Discounting DRK) with difficulty. Apart from needing to excessively resurrect WHM is fine with the current MP tools it has. Sure, Thin Air will be hilarious for Holy Spam or for firing off 4 Resurrects, but most often you'll use it for 5 free Stone IV's - it's a gimmick. A nice gimmick, but it's minor and it won't impact the weaker aspects of WHM. WHM could already go net neutral in MP without outside influence unless constantly needing to ress.

Overall WHM is getting some new tools which will useful, but not nearly so many as others and they're losing far more than most in the exchange. That's why people are emphasizing it. I don't understand how you could suggest SCH is in a worse position given all they're receiving in exchange for, mostly, aoe damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabzy

If the MP costs are reflective of what we've been used to in HW, SCH will easily have the hardest time in that department too. WHM may not have received much, but it didn't get nerfed anywhere near as hard as SCH. And with N.AST retaining a 15% heal increase, it's more than valid for SCHs to be feeling a little shafted from what we're seeing. I'm still reserving judgement for now, but now that we have numbers it's looking a little bleak for for both except AST who continues to get buffed even now. :'D

---

I'd love you to explain this because I must be missing something. Aetherflow return is being lowered, but they have the potential for higher use of Aetherflow and they're receiving a new MP management tool. I do agree though, it's odd that out of the 3 the only Healer getting clearly bumped up is AST.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryahask

.

---

What is SCH receiving exactly? Is it the 2% extra crit buff? The slightly more potent Lustrate that is meaningless really as Cleric stance is no longer what it used to be. Is it the Aetherpact when the healing potency has been halved? Is that what we got in return for the nerf in Bane, Embrace, Fey Illumination, Shadow Flare and Aetherflow? The deletion of Super Virus, Miasma II and Blizzard II? Oh, I'm definitely super excited by all I have gotten in return for these nerfs. Seriously, dude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryahask

The bottom line is that in terms of practicality where you the new shield will be useful, Stoneskin already was. Did it have a higher cost? Yeah, but it wasn't too significant.\

---

Except it was because it had a cast time and a huge MP cost. 2.5 Second Cast Time and 884 Mana (that's the same as a Cure II, are you saying you can afford to use Cure II willy-nilly cuz the cost isn't significant?) is significant.

Quote:

---

DoTs are being consolidated across the board, this isn't a SCH specific issue. So, they've lost AoE damage.

---

It is when SCH was specifically the DoT king and also received nerfs to Bane.....unlike AST who got Earthly Star and WHM who has an AoE DoT that doesn't decrease with # of targets and two other AoE damage abilities in the game. SCH's AoE sucks compared to the other two healers. Fact.

Quote:

---

outside of Aetherflow SCH has always lacked considerable single target heals, now they have yet another avenue.

---

They have always had the strongest single target heals because they stacked Fairy Embrace on top of Physick to pump out more baseline healing than other classes. Now, the other two classes had their base heal potencies increased (450 for WHM and 430? for AST) while fairy Embrace has been nerfed. SCH lacked AoE healing prior to HW because Succor could not compete with Medica/Cure III. In HW they got Indominability but could not keep up with sustained AoE damage so still needed to rely on the co-healer and that has not changed. Now they lack AoE Damage AND AoE healing.

Quote:

---

I think you misunderstand being the only Job that actually has MP management (Discounting DRK) with difficulty. Apart from needing to excessively resurrect WHM is fine with the current MP tools it has

---

No, it's not. It has the least MP management out of the 3 classes (speaking of HW not SB) because it only has Shroud of Saints and Assize. Aetherflow is ridiculously good for Scholar because they get so many free heals from fairy and lustrate that the 20% MP regain is enough to give them infinite MP. Meanwhile WHM has to spam Cure II and Medica and Cure III to heal everyone up. AST gets Luminiferous Aether and Lightspeed and can also give itself an Ewer if it needs to while being able to extend LA/LS on itself with Celestial Opposition. Bottomline: WHM has the worst MP Management and highest MP Usage of the three healers and has always been weak in MP Management.

Your post shows a lack of understanding of the healers. Are you sure you've even played them?

Regardless this isn't about which class is worse off. It's about "If the king of healers SCH is nerfed then isn't WHM comparatively better off even if they lost skills to cross-role actions"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Do you not know about WHM's long standing battle with MP Management?

---

If you have problems with MP management in 3.x on WHM, that's a personal problem, or your group is terrible with mechanics. :/ Just saying, because any WHM worth their salt shouldn't be having MP issues. Thin Air is just a "lol I get to spam XYZ expensive spell skill". I highly doubt it's going to be super needed. That's likely why so many are happy about it, because it is an actual fun skill, omg we got one... xD lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

10% MP 3 Second Cast vs. 15% No Cost Instant Cast? Sounds good.

---

You mean HP? But stoneskin actually had a 2.5 sec cast time, and no cooldown and, in 2.0 it used to be an 18% HP shield vs. 15% costs all lilies (and requires 1 to cast) with a 30 second cooldown. It's far less convenient to use for not that much better and it's worse than the old stoneskin was. I would totally take our current stoneskin vs. this new bubble anytime. Plus, it's a level 66 ability while stoneskin was 34 and usable in lower level content. White mages now have no form of mitigation within their job until level 66.

You kinda forget that Bane is now getting the same Nerf Holy got in 3.0. Welcome to the club. I will grant you the Shadow Flare nerf sucks, though.

Embrace losing 50 potency isn't going to get any sympathy from me. The fairy gives you access to buffs for the group along with free spot healing that's a pretty nice deal considering we have a lot more holes where skills went than you guys do now.

WHM and SCH both got hit in the nuts hard. I'm sure we can both agree to that. Now that SCH has been hit hard, surely you can understand at least a little how WHMs are feeling since we got hit in both 3.0 and 4.0. We're kinda tired of taking hits and this one hurts even more since we really didn't get anything that neat in 4.0. Thin Air? Sure, that could be great. But the rest is garbage and brings nothing to benefit our party with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reiryuu

WHM and SCH both got hit in the nuts hard. I'm sure we can both agree to that. Now that SCH has been hit hard, surely you can understand at least a little how WHMs are feeling since we got hit in both 3.0 and 4.0. We're kinda tired of taking hits and this one hurts even more since we really didn't get anything that neat in 4.0. Thin Air? Sure, that could be great. But the rest is garbage and brings nothing to benefit our party with.

---

My point is if SCH got hit hard then that puts WHM at a comparatively better position for raid content. Thin Air is fun. Assize at a lower CD, reduced further by Lilies (with increased proc rate of 50%/100%) is fun. Being able to devote 12 seconds of nonstop fun times to costless DPS or bombass heals is going to be fun. Being able to pump out my oGCD heals at lower CDs is fun.

Fuck Confession stacks though they need to change that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryahask

I'd love you to explain this because I must be missing something. Aetherflow return is being lowered, but they have the potential for higher use of Aetherflow and they're receiving a new MP management tool. I do agree though, it's odd that out of the 3 the only Healer getting clearly bumped up is AST.

---

All healers have access to Lucid Dreaming, so we can forget about that for now. On top of that WHM/SCH have a 10% MP recovery every 60 seconds, with both having a way to decrease the recast time (Assize/Aetherflow), and AST can extend the duration of LD to make up for that. Each job has one more MP regen ability in the form of Thin Air, The Ewer and Energy Drain. All but WHMs are situational, and WHMs one also happens to be the strongest if you utilise it correctly, with SCHs being the weakest.

As I'm highlighting a potential SCH weakness, I'm going to compare it to N.AST.

• Adloquium - 1061 / Aspected Benefic - 707

Technically our AoE heal is also a lot more expensive if we're using Emergency Tactics as you have to compare Succor MP costs to Helios, which is 1326/1061.

Arguably the most used tool for the shielders, you can see that Adlo has a much higher cost. Which considering it's weaker and has a cast time makes no sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

-

---

There's no reason to become antagonistic. Yes, losing AoE on SCH sucks and hopefully it won't hit them too hard, but AoE isn't essential. It does suck for playability though, as a large part of the fun with SCH was seeing what kinds of crazy numbers you could do in casual content, which - let's be realistic, is about 90% of the game sadly.

SCH actually doesn't have the best single target healing output, AST does. Lack of oGCDs hurts, which they're getting.

Lastly, WHM doesn't need more MP management. I won't turn my nose up at, it's something extra to use, but a WHM properly managing their current tools can stay net neutral in MP. I would suggest that the new damage utility SCH is receiving ensures they remain in the spotlight. As it stands now data mining is suggesting 15% crit for 15s, which is quite considerable if accurate. We'll need to wait and see, but I wouldn't debate the balance of anything currently because we won't know until we have final numbers.

It seems we're debating two different issues, I can understand SCH being peeved about what they're losing - hell, I can understand every Job being upset about certain losses. What's got me upset with WHM is just that I don't feel anything new or exciting is being brought to the table. I really like the new SCH abilities that have been announced, but I don't main it so maybe it just seems better from the outside looking in. I'll argue about balance until I'm blue in the face once I can do so with accurate information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabzy

-

---

I can see where you're coming from with that. It's hard to say as it stands because Aetherflow is getting a passive which has the potential to lower the cooldown I believe (Unless I misunderstood that ability and it gives extra stacks, not sure) and it would certainly be a weird turn around if SCH was suddenly plagued by MP management.

I'd also like to add that WHM in 3.x is only neutral on mana if you're a Sylphie. If you actually contribute to DPS, you'll have a much harder time managing MP. This was the reason SCH was so valuable, alongside the Faerie, in off-healing. Their playstyle required them to use DoTs more than nukes, and as those are more MP efficient and AF was better, they had a much easier time with sustained damage. Regardless of having the lowest DPS output of the three healers.

With their DPS rotation now also being similar to the other two, add DoT's and spam a nuke for days, that's going to be another increase in MP usage that SCHs previously didn't need to deal with. So it's a valid speculation that a WHM issue has been addressed alongside a SCH strength getting nerfed.

And in theory SCH in 3.x did have the best single target healing, it's just that we didn't need to use it or waste our resources on it. Physick combined with Embrace and potentially three Lustrates per Aetherflow was not something that AST or WHM could match.

It boggles my mind that there's over 200 pages of feedback on a single job's status in an expansion that nobody has even played yet. WHM is fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabzy

-

---

WHM can maintain a steady DPS rotation without running dry on MP. You are correct that WHM has by far the least wiggle room, and so for that extra MP management is nice.

I have to admit you raised a really interesting point in that SCH MP costs may rise due to more frequent nuke spam and while we'll have to wait to see how it turns out, I would agree that it's a valid concern.

SCH doesn't have the highest single target healing, it's a common misconception. Even using Aetherflow, AST has higher. What SCH does have is the highest sustainable single target, as AST will blow their MP in about 2 minutes if attempting to keep it up (Though that's obviously unnecessary).


As an aside, I can't believe they've yet to fix this annoying character limit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryahask

...Lastly, WHM doesn't need more MP management. I won't turn my nose up at, it's something extra to use, but a WHM properly managing their current tools can stay net neutral in MP. I would suggest that the new damage utility SCH is receiving ensures they remain in the spotlight. As it stands now data mining is suggesting 15% crit for 15s, which is quite considerable if accurate. We'll need to wait and see, but I wouldn't debate the balance of anything currently because we won't know until we have final numbers...

---

Yep. Only needed extra mana on hardcore dPSing big endgame pulls. Even then, I'd swap back to heal before OOM. More mana in SB was not asked. Free cure, Assize, SoS... I mean c'mon. I ALWAYS had extra mana to play with. Maybe they are doing this for the nubbins that think "Cure 2?! Wow, I'll never use Cure ever again!":D I remember those folks in 2.0 days
That or they are artificially increasing mana usage to MAKE a need for it? Hope not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MyowzayaTrousas

It boggles my mind that there's over 200 pages of feedback on a single job's status in an expansion that nobody has even played yet. WHM is fine.

---

How do you know if it's fine if you haven't played it either?

Just because you don't know how to make educated guesses about how things will play out doesn't mean others are as clueless.

So I poked around and... sure the buffs to stuff is nice, but did anyone else notice the change Secret of the Lily 2?

20% chance when you crit with Cure or Cure II to reduce the cooldown of Assize or Asylum by 5 seconds.

It's RNG behind RNG behind RNG. I almost feel like that's a troll trait or something.

White mages have 3 less abilities than the other healers. Still don't understand why.

The only thing the upset WHM's will take at this point is a 20% damage increase AoE balance to all party members for 30 seconds on a minute cooldown.
Then maybe... just maybe, perhaps they will consider everything to be fair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryahask

WHM can maintain a steady DPS rotation without running dry on MP.

---

I'm not talking about dungeons though, where you get small breaks between pulls to restore mana. During progression raids, WHM MP would run dry very fast if they wanted to perform as an off-healer. There's literally no denying that because the costs of keeping up DPS were flat out more than they could recover via Shroud and Assize.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryahask

SCH doesn't have the highest single target healing, it's a common misconception. Even using Aetherflow, AST has higher. What SCH does have is the highest sustainable single target, as AST will blow their MP in about 2 minutes if attempting to keep it up (Though that's obviously unnecessary).

---

That's kind of completely irrelevant though. There's burst and sustained healing, not just mindlessly spamming Benefic II until your MP runs dry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xNewbx

The only thing the upset WHM's will take at this point is a 20% damage increase AoE balance to all party members for 30 seconds on a minute cooldown.
Then maybe... just maybe, perhaps they will consider everything to be fair.

---

Haven't you heard? Balanced jobs are underpowered. The only way to be considered good is to be massively overpowered.

Apparently, this is what we're getting...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_etc/diy7w1e/

Like we expected, they only changed the procrates of the lilies, which doesn't change a thing.
- The reward from lilies is still CD reduction, which is crap.
- Gaining lilies is still only from casting Cure and Cure II spells, which are the ones we try to avoid as much as we can as they're the most inefficient we have.
- Divine Benison is still gated behind the lilies

So pretty much all the remarks which were compiled on the first post are still valid.

At this point, after seeing the updated skills, it's going to take everyone running double AST in raids for SE to finally take notice (SCH isn't much better off than WHM tbh). With how lillies will basically be ignored it will be 3.0 WHM with a free heal now and again with Plenury.

Divine Bension being 30s is nice but to make it reliable you're basically gonna have to cure 2 before you use it every time (and hope the tank isn't already at full HP). It's a really bizarre design choice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Haven't you heard? Balanced jobs are underpowered. The only way to be considered good is to be massively overpowered.

---

Oh, so you mean AST.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niroken

Oh, so you mean AST.

---

If it's not overpowered it's bad, so yup! Just gotta make WHM more OP than AST so everyone runs double WHM instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphyna

Apparently, this is what we're getting...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_etc/diy7w1e/

---

So they only really changed how Cure and Cure II interact with Lilies? That's... yeah. WONDERFUL. /s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

If it's not overpowered it's bad, so yup! Just gotta make WHM more OP than AST so everyone runs double WHM instead.

---

Could you grab a non joking post that suggests that, I can't seem to find one but it looks like you found a few at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niroken

Could you grab a non joking post that suggests that, I can't seem to find one but it looks like you found a few at least.

---

Thunda is a troll. Ignore her.

Seriously though, no one wants WHM to be OP, we want balance. AST is overpowered compared to the other healers, WHM is UP in raids. Keeping all healers on equal playing fields shouldn't be that difficult.
Why the hell did they not change Balance? That alone makes AST ridiculous strong.