Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilyth

http://i.imgur.com/3oUflnR.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/I1tfrL1.png

---

Ahhhhh cripes. I'm going back over my own calculations and it looks like I somehow got 4068 total potency for the Foul-less long rotation rather than 4118 total potency, such that the long rotation was just flatly inferior in all respects and anyone who said different must have been making some kind of conceptual mistake somewhere. I have no idea where that 50 potency went, but that'll teach me to basically do napkin math in notepad and the Windows calculator app. You were right, mea culpa!

Of course, the six F4 rotation is still so cumbersome that I suspect the four F4 rotation might beat it if you factor in the chances of getting and actually being able to use a Thundercloud proc, though I suppose higher spellspeed fixes that eventually.

The highest PPS rotation, assuming perfect mana ticks or good foul and t3p management, is a variation on the 3.0 rotation. With the mana changes to F1, you can now cast 5xF4s without B4. You need to make sure you have full mana when F3 finishes casting. You can then do 3xF4s, F1, then 2xF4s. This will leave you are 480 Mana, just a bit more than B3. When you go into UI phase you have 4 options. 1. Have a T3P ready to use. 2. Have a Foul ready to use. 3. Get a fast mana tick and go into T3. 4. Cry and wait for mana tick.

Obviously you don't want the 4th option, but from experience, I only have that happen maybe 1 in 4 cycles, so I think the increase in PPS is worth the risk. How I have been doing it is using B4 for my opener, and any LL timings, to help extend the foul timer to line up properly, but skip it for normal rotations.

Yeah, I use the 5xF4 rotation as much as possible. If I notice that I'm about to exit UI with Foul having JUST finished charging, e.g. there's barely any visible pink on the Foul meter, I cast Blizzard 4 first to buy myself some time.

Should we be using triple cast always when its up? or better to wait for ley lines before using it?

I dont think using triple as soon as its up is a wise idea. It has better use when its planned proper, assigning it to specific scenarios will dampen what its capable of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by schulz8

Should we be using triple cast always when its up? or better to wait for ley lines before using it?

---

In fact you should make sure not to use it and leylines at the exact same time. Try to pop leylines exactly as you release your third instant spell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ferrinus

In fact you should make sure not to use it and leylines at the exact same time. Try to pop leylines exactly as you release your third instant spell.

---

Wait wat???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

Wait wat???

---

By default, Triplecast turns FireIV, which is a 2.8s spell, into a 2.5s spell. You're essentially saving 0.9 seconds each time you press Triplecast.

However, under Leylines, Fire IV is a 2.38 second spell, and it become a 2.125 second spell when triplecasted (or swiftcasted). So using Triplecast on top of Leylines only saves you a total of 0.765 seconds.

Simultaneous Triplecast + Leylines gives you the highest possible dps in the moment, so you should do it if the boss is in the middle of casting its enrage or whatever, but you should do more overall damage across an entire fight if you use the two sequentially rather than simultaneously.

As in save TC for movement? Or just use whenever outside of Leylines?

I use TC on cooldown. It's just, when both TC and leylines are up, I only turn on leylines as soon as TC runs out.

2.8-2.5= 0.3 saved extra time with tripple-c
2.38-2.125= 0.255 saved extra time with tripple-c under LL

.... don't use tripple-c under LL (unless you will otherwise miss TA or some other buff in your opener)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ferrinus

I use TC on cooldown. It's just, when both TC and leylines are up, I only turn on leylines as soon as TC runs out.

---

It took me way too long to realize that was Triple and not Thundercloud. >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

2.8-2.5= 0.3 saved extra time with tripple-c
2.38-2.125= 0.255 saved extra time with tripple-c under LL

.... don't use tripple-c under LL (unless you will otherwise miss TA or some other buff in your opener)

---

The gains are pretty non-existent, though. A total of 0,135 seconds saved every time you do that. You probably don't even get a whole second out of it during your average fight. And every time your Triple comes up in the beginning of Ley it definitely is not worth it to wait 30 seconds.

Speaking of small gains and losses: Triple and not weaving it. 0,7s lock, 0,9s saved from 3xF4, a gain of 0,2s. Having to do F4 F4 F1 or so under non-weaved Triple? A loss of -0,1s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waliel

The gains are pretty non-existent, though. A total of 0,135 seconds saved every time you do that. You probably don't even get a whole second out of it during your average fight. And every time your Triple comes up in the beginning of Ley it definitely is not worth it to wait 30 seconds.

Speaking of small gains and losses: Triple and not weaving it. 0,7s lock, 0,9s saved from 3xF4, a gain of 0,2s. Having to do F4 F4 F1 or so under non-weaved Triple? A loss of -0,1s.

---

If you're min/maxing, it's a free gain. I also like to offset them for mobility. I have triple/swift/sharp/lines all offset (lines for Between the Lines).

I don't know which thread to post this on, so I'll post it to both. Apologies if I'm doing this wrong.

So let me see if I got this straight. B4 is a dps loss, but openers and TC rotations make B4 a dps gain?

In single rotation,
If I understand this right, my goal is to: B4 opener, 3.X (5xF4 version), 4.X, 3.X (5xF4 version) with LL, 4.X, 3.X (5xF4 version), repeat from B4 opener...

As for the multiple target rotation,
These are my optimum rotations per enemy total atm:
2: T4 B4 F3 F4 F4 Flare Flare
3-5: T4 B4 F3 Flare Flare
6-8: T4 B4 F3 F2 F2 Flare Flare
9+: T4 F3 F2 F2 Flare

There was a disclaimer for progressing SpS that I left out...

Also, if this is correct, what number of enemies should I switch from single to multiple rotation. I believe in HW, we weren't supposed to switch from single until at least 3 enemies. Can we switch as soon as there is 2 enemies in SB?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

I don't know which thread to post this on, so I'll post it to both. Apologies if I'm doing this wrong.

So let me see if I got this straight. B4 is a dps loss, but openers and TC rotations make B4 a dps gain?

In single rotation,
If I understand this right, my goal is to: B4 opener, 3.X (5xF4 version), 4.X, 3.X (5xF4 version) with LL, 4.X, 3.X (5xF4 version), repeat from B4 opener...

As for the multiple target rotation,
These are my optimum rotations per enemy total atm:
2: T4 B4 F3 F4 F4 Flare Flare
3-5: T4 B4 F3 Flare Flare
6-8: T4 B4 F3 F2 F2 Flare Flare
9+: T4 F3 F2 F2 Flare

---

Just leveled blm, can anyone explain whats the B4 opener ? I cant find any guide for 4.05 rotation. Thank you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SolAries

Just leveled blm, can anyone explain whats the B4 opener ? I cant find any guide for 4.05 rotation. Thank you

---

Cast Blizzard 3 -> Enochian -> Blizzard 4 -> thunder 3 -> fire 3 -> sharpcast -> Leylines -> Fire 1 -> Triplecast -> 4x fire 4 -> fire 3 proc -> convert -> 2x fire 4 -> Foul -> fire 1 -> fire 4 -> blizzard 3.

Something like that, not sure about the ending there if someone can correct me.

I've been seeing some random talk on reddit that det is taking precedence as the tertiary stat for BLM over crit? Has anyone done any research into this? I've always thought of Det to be a far distant 4th stat for us so this is certainly news to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vocal_Night

Cast Blizzard 3 -> Enochian -> Blizzard 4 -> thunder 3 -> fire 3 -> sharpcast -> Leylines -> Fire 1 -> Triplecast -> 4x fire 4 -> fire 3 proc -> convert -> 2x fire 4 -> Foul -> fire 1 -> fire 4 -> blizzard 3.

Something like that, not sure about the ending there if someone can correct me.

---

What I'm doing is:

PC = pre-cast W = weave TC = triple cast LL = ley lines SC = sharp cast C = convert E = enochian FP = firestarter proc

(PC B3) E T4 B4 (F3 W TC) (F4 W SC) F4 (F4 W LL) F1 F4x3 (FP W C) F4X2 B3 F

My Opener has been this -

B3 > Eno > T3 > B4 > TC > F4 > F4 > SC > F4> Ley Lines > F1 > F4 x3 > F3 Proc > Convert > F4 > F4 > B3 > Foul > T3 > F3 etc, etc.

I've been seeing some BLM players say to drop Ley Lines during TC'ing your F4's in the opener, but that just makes no sense to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaalia_Stormborn

My Opener has been this -

B3 > Eno > T3 > B4 > TC > F4 > F4 > SC > F4> Ley Lines > F1 > F4 x3 > F3 Proc > Convert > F4 > F4 > B3 > Foul > T3 > F3 etc, etc.

I've been seeing some BLM players say to drop Ley Lines during TC'ing your F4's in the opener, but that just makes no sense to me.

---

I've been doing B3->Eno->T3->SwiftCast B4-> Sharp + Leylines -> F3. Any advantage to waiting later after the 3 F4s?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

I've been doing B3->Eno->T3->SwiftCast B4-> Sharp + Leylines -> F3. Any advantage to waiting later after the 3 F4s?

---

Leylines reduceds recast speed of our GCDs, so using it before the Triple cast lowers the amount of time saved from swiftcasting those 3 F4s. It doesn't really matter where Leylines goes into the rotation, since the only damage buffs we have now are potions, so Leylines will hit about the same amount of spells regardless of where we put it. So during the last swift casted F4 of triple cast, we use that time to weave leylines.

Here is a slightly easier to understand rotation format (with pot): Umbral Heart Opener

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyeMinx

Leylines reduceds recast speed of our GCDs, so using it before the Triple cast lowers the amount of time saved from swiftcasting those 3 F4s. It doesn't really matter where Leylines goes into the rotation, since the only damage buffs we have now are potions, so Leylines will hit about the same amount of spells regardless of where we put it.

---

Doesn't this matter? It's from the previous page. Maybe it doesn't because the gain is too little...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

2.8-2.5= 0.3 saved extra time with tripple-c
2.38-2.125= 0.255 saved extra time with tripple-c under LL

.... don't use tripple-c under LL (unless you will otherwise miss TA or some other buff in your opener)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

I've been doing B3->Eno->T3->SwiftCast B4-> Sharp + Leylines -> F3. Any advantage to waiting later after the 3 F4s?

---

Personally, I do it like this to maximize my movement tool set. If you move with your TC while LL is up, you are wasting an aetherial manipulation or outside of opener swift cast...

Since there is a ton of work being done on optimal damage rotations, I think I'll take a look at optimal movement rotations when I get back to school and I have access to MS Excel again...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyeMinx

Leylines reduceds recast speed of our GCDs, so using it before the Triple cast lowers the amount of time saved from swiftcasting those 3 F4s. It doesn't really matter where Leylines goes into the rotation, since the only damage buffs we have now are potions, so Leylines will hit about the same amount of spells regardless of where we put it. So during the last swift casted F4 of triple cast, we use that time to weave leylines.

Here is a slightly easier to understand rotation format (with pot): Umbral Heart Opener

---

I'm honestly so baffled I never discovered this sooner... Its brilliant. Fitting in the pot, sharp, and leylines all during OGCD. Thank you so much. I think you just made my already favorite class MUCH more enjoyable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

Doesn't this matter? It's from the previous page. Maybe it doesn't because the gain is too little...

---

Sorry, my wording was a bit off. I mean, since we don't have raging strikes anymore, Leylines isn't really used to put more spells under that window, we only have potions now. So when it comes to just random placement of Leylines, it doesn't matter other than triple cast. Weaving LL properly yields more damage than using it with certain timings unweaved. So, because of triple cast, we don't want to be using Triple cast during a LL, this is why we cast LL during the last F4 in the triple cast.

Ok,
a few questions for you pro BMs out there...

What is/are the optimal opener/s when juggling AF/UI between pulls? What I normally do is just TC Foul B3 T4 weave swift cast B4 F3 into appropriate rotation with whatever is available for opener...

Basically, the meat of the question is, should I change my opener depending on whether I'm in AF or UI? Also, with too few seconds to cast, should I 1. wait for a transpose 2. just cast something like a F2, F3 or B3 into enochian just to get my enochian clock back or 3. drop enochian after I polygot and just use a foul opener? What is a foul opener? When I have foul and drop enochian between pulls, I start B3 Enochian before I foul to get that clock running. Is that right or should I just foul at the start? Common sense says that B3 enochian for the clock is the answer, but maybe math says otherwise. On the other hand, common sense says that the superior option is to not drop the clock at all for the extra time, so, yea. Also, the situation comes up where you have both the polygot and AF/UI clocks about to end, that's a pain on the fly too...

What do you guys think?
Thx!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Finkledoodoo

Ok,
a few questions for you pro BMs out there...

What is/are the optimal opener/s when juggling AF/UI between pulls? What I normally do is just TC Foul B3 T4 weave swift cast B4 F3 into appropriate rotation with whatever is available for opener...

---

Hmmm, i honestly haven't been doing much dungeon crawling on my BLM, just end game content, but I like your idea of TC to get you back up to full AF asap into the pull. Not sure what's the most efficient course of action here, but I should probably do some more dungeon runs on BLM to practice this.

So by getting near to 2k spellspeed I noticed that foul is more likely to not be up for UI, and this is more likely to happen during ley lines what are your thoughts on this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyeMinx

Sorry, my wording was a bit off. I mean, since we don't have raging strikes anymore, Leylines isn't really used to put more spells under that window, we only have potions now. So when it comes to just random placement of Leylines, it doesn't matter other than triple cast. Weaving LL properly yields more damage than using it with certain timings unweaved. So, because of triple cast, we don't want to be using Triple cast during a LL, this is why we cast LL during the last F4 in the triple cast.

---

You can do both (weave and offset them). Half your LL will not be up with Triple, the other half will be up with Triple. Weave LL under the last Triple cast when they're both up, weave under a proc/switching between AF/UI for the others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

So by getting near to 2k spellspeed I noticed that foul is more likely to not be up for UI, and this is more likely to happen during ley lines what are your thoughts on this?

---

Irrelevant. Foul placement is much less concerning now because with the new cast times/new Triple cd, we can realistically shove it anywhere without much of a loss.
The only thing that favours UI placement is mana ticks (which also dictates if you'll go 3.X or 4.0).
Curiously, 4.05 made us even more manatick-centric than before.

during opener ...pot>TC>3xF4..., like poping my pot there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

during opener ...pot>TC>3xF4..., like poping my pot there

---

but it might miss the 1sr foul, so weaving it between either F4s during the TC might je valid too (have to explore more, but just like using it before TC)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

So by getting near to 2k spellspeed I noticed that foul is more likely to not be up for UI, and this is more likely to happen during ley lines what are your thoughts on this?

---

guess gonna use B4 nomatter what,.. if foul cant cover the last mp tick

afraid, B4 might won't be enough at higher SS.., not going to start to use B1 as an extra filler (took it off my hotbar), if no foul or Tproc up..., but foul should be up must of the rotas

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

Irrelevant. Foul placement is much less concerning now because with the new cast times/new Triple cd, we can realistically shove it anywhere without much of a loss.
The only thing that favours UI placement is mana ticks (which also dictates if you'll go 3.X or 4.0).
Curiously, 4.05 made us even more manatick-centric than before.

---

I wasn't really concerned about foul position in the rotation, my aim was to beg the question if you think that we'll end up casting B4 more with higher speed tier. I don't remember exact the MP he had but the mage in the video that was posted before was indeed using B4 alot.

edit: I also wonder if we really can talk about rotations for our job, instead of following a priority system when everything is considered

@ stat weights

for blm: ss>dhit>det>crit??

since it seems, det>crits with most classes (melee), but those have like auto-attacks, .. wonder if det is scales better with such auto-attcking classes (other than maybe mnk) and less for casters, especially blm??

in that case for blm crit>det??

.. eitherway is 35 SS better than 40 crit (or 40 det)?? for the 2nd slot on the 230 (lost allagan) chest piece

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

@ stat weights

for blm: ss>dhit>det>crit??

---

That pretty much.
Crit has apparently been nerfed from what others told me, so it's the stat that has the worst scaling atm. Unless you can somehow stack huge amounts of it, don't remember the exact numbers but I think it was somewhat short of 2500, it's not worth going for it right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

I wasn't really concerned about foul position in the rotation, my aim was to beg the question if you think that we'll end up casting B4 more with higher speed tier. I don't remember exact the MP he had but the mage in the video that was posted before was indeed using B4 alot.

edit: I also wonder if we really can talk about rotations for our job, instead of following a priority system when everything is considered

---

It was already a priority system in HW, and it's even more of a priority queue now.
I don't think we'll ever get enough speed to make a noticeable difference.
Sometimes, the faster speed means your cast outraces the tick, so you cast first and then get the mana, meaning full refund. Some others, it means that your cast and F3 finish before the tick.
If we do an approximation that our ticks follow a uniform distribution (not true, but unless you're using questionable tools to time it, this is the "sane" approach in complete lack of knowledge), then speed simple changes which alignments would be beneficial and which would be harmful.
Overall, it doesn't change a lot. Sometimes speed allows a cast to finish before a tick, thus granting a full refund where you wouldn't get it otherwise, and some others it makes filler+F3 too fast where it would otherwise be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

So by getting near to 2k spellspeed I noticed that foul is more likely to not be up for UI, and this is more likely to happen during ley lines what are your thoughts on this?

---

im at 1712 ss atm, after just getting the 230 chest piece now, and melding ss on it..., and now under LL, even if i do B4 AND foul, mana wont always tick up fully -.-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lelila38

Crit has apparently been nerfed from what others told me, so it's the stat that has the worst scaling atm

---

for blm, it feels strange, feels like I'm doing less damage, when stacking det melds instead if crit, need to test it more

the crit vs det was tested on a melee (not mnk)?? wonder if its like in ARR 2.x, where det influenced auto-attacks; where as crit is more valuable for hard hitting classes/moves

also wonder how high melee get their det conpared to crit

even when stacking det, im stll 2:1 crti:det ratio, when stacking crit its was more like 3:1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

for blm, it feels strange, feels like I'm doing less damage, when stacking det melds instead if crit, need to test it more

the crit vs det was tested on a melee (not mnk)?? wonder if its like in ARR 2.x, where det influenced auto-attacks; where as crit is more valuable for hard hitting classes/moves

also wonder how high melee get their det conpared to crit

even when stacking det, im stll 2:1 crti:det ratio, when stacking crit its was more like 3:1

---

I thought so too. But even still, atm Dh is better, so if we go ss>dh>crit you won't end up with much crit melds anyway. Basically I'll be aiming for the other 2 stats and take whatever crit and det the gear gets me while doing that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

It was already a priority system in HW, and it's even more of a priority queue now.
I don't think we'll ever get enough speed to make a noticeable difference.
Sometimes, the faster speed means your cast outraces the tick, so you cast first and then get the mana, meaning full refund. Some others, it means that your cast and F3 finish before the tick.
If we do an approximation that our ticks follow a uniform distribution (not true, but unless you're using questionable tools to time it, this is the "sane" approach in complete lack of knowledge), then speed simple changes which alignments would be beneficial and which would be harmful.
Overall, it doesn't change a lot. Sometimes speed allows a cast to finish before a tick, thus granting a full refund where you wouldn't get it otherwise, and some others it makes filler+F3 too fast where it would otherwise be fine.

---

Always thought that is was a priority system but seems that it's not well reflected in the infos around and as such I think we should make it clearer
as for the speed, I dunno I think that with full gear from this tier we should hit 2.5 sec cast time on F4 a 0.3 reduction from the very first tier sounds insane to me (don't remember how much cast time reduction we could achieve in gordias to me a comparison however).

like as if it telling blm, dont stack det, thats why the stat ratio is so low from the a start., even if i went full det, couldnt get it as high as Ss or dhit ratio, .. Ss and dhit have the highest ratios, hence its like telling us to stack them..

really wonder how the blm stats are..., wouldn't be the 1st time it doesnt correspond at all with melee stats, .. besides SS being very or the most valuable

(can only post 1000 signs, had to do a 2nd post)