Please get rid of surplus SP

Well I for one think there should be MORE surplus! So much surplus that it makes leveling even more of a challenge.. because I love the challenge. :)

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Originally Posted by Moth

Well I for one think there should be MORE surplus! So much surplus that it makes leveling even more of a challenge.. because I love the challenge. :)

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Time wasted =/= challenge

I'm being challenged by reading troll posts!

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Time wasted =/= challenge

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Cry more please.

maybe instead they should make a server for all the hardcore people who dont like SP and take it away. Just so they would stop nagging away about it. LOL

It's too bad the people who have quit cannot post in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Moth

Cry more please.

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Musculoskeletal disorders are fun.

They probably can, if they didn't close their account, for no reason but to spite FF14. It was never charged monetary value.

Problem is, they don't care, and that's the worse result of all.

Surplus makes players play less, and that's a bad thing when FF14 is losing players at a massive slide.

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Originally Posted by Moth

Well I for one think there should be MORE surplus! So much surplus that it makes leveling even more of a challenge.. because I love the challenge. :)

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If you want more challenge, the better solution would be to offer harder mobs that require more strategy and cooperation to take down and give you better SP rewards.

Tony Montana is right. Wasting a player's time is not a challenge. Tasks that require the player to think and use strategy to win is the most fulfilling type of challenge.

I agree removing fatigue would be amazing. I kinda see it from a developers point of view, you know, imposing a time sink while one cranks out more content but seriously, fatigue sucks.

And I continue to lol at the people who defend surplus *cough*Ranka*cough*. You can twist it however you want and talk about how its meant to encourage to play other classes, but simply put, it is a penalty to players. 10%, 5%, 1%, it does not matter, it is a penalty for playing the game. It takes away the freedom of the player. If "Joe" wants to grind away on 1 class, thats his choice because he will eventually be paying to play this game. Penalizing him and removing that choice is not cool. The fact that he will lack skills/benefits from sub classes is more than enough of a penalty.

And for those who continue to talk about how it's designed to make players branch out to other classes apparently never went to FFXIV official site.

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Players may opt to specialize in one discipline, excelling in a single skill, or they may take a more general approach, making free use of the Armoury. The choice is yours.

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Simply put, fatigue was put in place to hide the fact that the game was lacking in content. Encouraging people to play other classes had nothing to do with it. I say it again. Earning beneficial skills from other classes and linking it to yours is MORE than enough incentive to rank up another class. Fatigue at this point is simply stupid and has no place in any MMO.

And for those using "casuals" as an argument. Casuals will NEVER keep up with the hardcore. Thats why they are called CASUALS. Remember, the casuals may buy the games, but the hardcore are what keep a game alive.

Oh, and what about people who join the game later? I got many friends who wish to play but do not have a pc capable of playing it so they wait for the ps3 launch. They are going to most likely be a year or so behind. Is it fair that they have to play catch up while dealing with such a system in place that slowly removes SP the more they play? Think about that one Ranka.

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Simply put, fatigue was put in place to hide the fact that the game was lacking in content.

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I can agree with you in some respects but I don't think that the fatigue system was put in solely for this reason.

More likely the team wanted players to create hybrid classes that could perform multiple class actions on a class (by leveling up another class). However, this has cost them as the horizontal development of characters restricts them from balancing the classes. Because of this sytem, people have leveled up multiple classes and imo this has destroyed the class identity as a class can use many skills from others.

If removal of the fatigue system means that classes can be balanced better and give them more of an identity, im all for it!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: There are so many better ways to encourage horizontal leveling and help casuals than the surplus system.

Remove ALL the restrictive systems (fatigue, guardians favour, anima, leve cooldown etc.) Why create teleports in the first place if you then restrict them on some arbitrary timer? Remove them and give us Chocobos, solved. All these restrictions do is just create FRUSTRATION, nothing more. The hardcore still grind through them, you can't win, it's that simple.

Fatigue is useless since by the time this game is going to be "ready" everyone and his mom will be maxed out anyways. It will just alienate new players. Your eally don't want to do that.

Artificial restricitons like cooldowns (Dynamis, i look at you) just create the feeling you are doing a job not playing a game for fun. THIS IS A GAME!

Typical FFXI work schedule (it is/was ridiculous):

Monday: Assault, Sky Farming
Tuesay: Dynamis farming (cities)
Wednesday: Limbus (farming)
Thursday: Assault, Nyzul Isle
Friday: Sky Gods
Saturday: Dynamis Northlands
Sunday: Salvage, Limbus (Ultima/Omega)

That's a job not a game. I want to log on and do whatever i please and if i want to do it every day, for 8h, so be it. Stop restricting peoples way of playing your game. It is not only completely pointless it is also insulting to tell me how and when to play the game.

My opinion about surplus, it's just one of the many thing they use to control grinding. Even if they were to remove it they would just control it differently probably by changing the sp mobs give and the sp needed to rank up.

I find it a bit funny that people are stuck on surplus while other modifications from the first sp patch that made it fix sp to more recently the removal of sp bonus when there's more than 8 people in party were all ways to control ranking up speed but nobody minded those. Still the problem with it is the presentation. Because it's call fatigue and presented as a penalty, it annoy a lot of players. If instead of calling it normal sp, tier 1 fatigue, tier 2 fatigue, etc, they called it bonus sp(current normal one), normal sp(tier 1 fatigue) and fatigue tier 1, 2,etc, everyone reaction would probably be better. Sure some players would still be annoyed but since you would spend a good amount of time in "bonus" and normal sp, you probably wouldn't mind it as much.

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Originally Posted by Aramil

My opinion about surplus, it's just one of the many thing they use to control grinding. Even if they were to remove it they would just control it differently probably by changing the sp mobs give and the sp needed to rank up.

I find it a bit funny that people are stuck on surplus while other modifications from the first sp patch that made it fix sp to more recently the removal of sp bonus when there's more than 8 people in party were all ways to control ranking up speed but nobody minded those. Still the problem with it is the presentation. Because it's call fatigue and presented as a penalty, it annoy a lot of players. If instead of calling it normal sp, tier 1 fatigue, tier 2 fatigue, etc, they called it bonus sp(current normal one), normal sp(tier 1 fatigue) and fatigue tier 1, 2,etc, everyone reaction would probably be better. Sure some players would still be annoyed but since you would spend a good amount of time in "bonus" and normal sp, you probably wouldn't mind it as much.

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No. Fatigue needs to be removed. There shouldn't be ANY punishment at ALL to stop players from playing right now. And that is all that fatigue is doing. Stopping players from wanting to play.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

Remove ALL the restrictive systems (fatigue, guardians favour, anima, leve cooldown etc.) Why create teleports in the first place if you then restrict them on some arbitrary timer? Remove them and give us Chocobos, solved. All these restrictions do is just create FRUSTRATION, nothing more. The hardcore still grind through them, you can't win, it's that simple.

Fatigue is useless since by the time this game is going to be "ready" everyone and his mom will be maxed out anyways. It will just alienate new players. Your eally don't want to do that.

Artificial restricitons like cooldowns (Dynamis, i look at you) just create the feeling you are doing a job not playing a game for fun. THIS IS A GAME!

Typical FFXI work schedule (it is/was ridiculous):

Monday: Assault, Sky Farming
Tuesay: Dynamis farming (cities)
Wednesday: Limbus (farming)
Thursday: Assault, Nyzul Isle
Friday: Sky Gods
Saturday: Dynamis Northlands
Sunday: Salvage, Limbus (Ultima/Omega)

That's a job not a game. I want to log on and do whatever i please and if i want to do it every day, for 8h, so be it. Stop restricting peoples way of playing your game. It is not only completely pointless it is also insulting to tell me how and when to play the game.

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I agree 100%! Im playing this game for entertainment not to be held back... (/starts grumbling to himself)

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Originally Posted by thomeboy

... it'll take me almost a year to get to 50 in just one class. Even if I were to accomplish this, I wouldn't be an effective character without needed skills from other classes.

What kind of casual player literally logs on EVERY DAY but only for 2 hours.

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You can get to 50 in less than a month logging in for only an hour and a half each reset and doing leves in a static group. You can ask anyone in my LS.

Simply put, if anyone is quitting over fatigue then a) they don't know how it works in reality and b) they don't have a good grasp on how SP works in this game in general.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

You can get to 50 in less than a month logging in for only an hour and a half each reset and doing leves in a static group. You can ask anyone in my LS.

Simply put, if anyone is quitting over fatigue then a) they don't know how it works in reality and b) they don't have a good grasp on how SP works in this game in general.

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Maybe if they made the game design easier to understand and gave us more information about how stuff works, there wouldn't be problems like new players/people complaining about limitations that according to some are actually helpful and they just don't understand it.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

You can get to 50 in less than a month logging in for only an hour and a half each reset and doing leves in a static group. You can ask anyone in my LS.

Simply put, if anyone is quitting over fatigue then a) they don't know how it works in reality and b) they don't have a good grasp on how SP works in this game in general.

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c.) They don't like being told what to do in general.

Certainly not during their free time.

While playing a game.

EDIT: That they are paying for.

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Originally Posted by Smashington

c.) They don't like being told what to do in general.

Certainly not during their free time.

While playing a game.

EDIT: That they are paying for.

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Well said.

Shame on SE for not describing and implementing one the most foundational aspects of the game. Fatigue is only viewed as penalizing SP gain atm. There is going to be much more to it than just that. I know the points you are penalized for will count towards something else in the future. And I think people will view these points as more valuable than exp. Until then people will hate it, but it isn't their fault. It's SE's for giving us a less than a half complete feature.

Remove fatigue! remove it now!

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Originally Posted by AtryxEtair

I know the points you are penalized for will count towards something else in the future. And I think people will view these points as more valuable than exp.

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No guarantee if that'll every happen despite what they said in that interview. If they really want another variety of points, then the Merit Point system from FF11 would be a much better system.

I hope Yoshi-P will reply to this ASAP <3

Please remove this Surplus/Fatigue limitation. I bought this game (and a brand new computer to play it) to find out I can only level my main class a certain amount per week. Lame.

I understand that this is to combat Real Money Traders but I emphatically believe players should not be penalized due to this fact. It is not my fault that this exists and I think it is not fair that because of this fact I can only receive a certain amount of Skill Points per week.

Another argument I have heard from interviews during development is that this is to give the "casual player" less of a disadvantage to "hard-core players". Let's face it Square Enix, this game is not for casual gamers. With over 1,800,000 Skill Points to rank 50 (please correct me if i'm wrong) I seriously doubt my little sister will be playing this game. In addition to this, any "casual gamer" really isn't going to care about the progress "hardcore gamers" are making.

Please remove this limitation in gaining Skill Points and find a more creative way to combat Real Money Traders that does not penalize the players.

Could you imagine if while playing a Final Fantasy offline game you could only level 3 levels a week before being penalized? Ridiculous. This fatigue/surplus system just isn't in the Final Fantasy spirit in my modest opinion.

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Originally Posted by Overkill9000

its not really doing what it was intended to do tho, and it's only real effect is making ppl angry lol

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what is it not doing that it was intended to?

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Originally Posted by Mega

what is it not doing that it was intended to?

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Wasnt it ment to be a road block between hardcore players and R50? Kind of a way for SE to hold people off while they add some meaningful end game content. Of the dedicated few still playing the game I know very few people who dont have atleast one 50. So if even 1/4 of people have atleast 1 50 and the fact that surplus has angered a huuuuuge portion of the people who purchased FFXIV I dont really think its doing what it was intended to do without way to much collateral damage.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

You can get to 50 in less than a month logging in for only an hour and a half each reset and doing leves in a static group. You can ask anyone in my LS.

Simply put, if anyone is quitting over fatigue then a) they don't know how it works in reality and b) they don't have a good grasp on how SP works in this game in general.

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I think this is a little of a exaggeration. Or I am a idiot. It takes me 3 hours each reset to get 100k sp so that would put me on about a 5 week cycle for 20-50. I would love to know what I am doing wrong! It be really great to get it down to 90 minutes.

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Originally Posted by tragic

I think this is a little of a exaggeration. Or I am a idiot. It takes me 3 hours each reset to get 100k sp so that would put me on about a 5 week cycle for 20-50. I would love to know what I am doing wrong! It be really great to get it down to 90 minutes.

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You do realise that getting SP in another class will nullify the fatigue on your other classes, right? >_>

Will this topic get a reply from SE?

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Originally Posted by Smashington

Will this topic get a reply from SE?

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Will this topic just die?

/thumbsup for surplus

I am in a static grind pt with my LS friends, we all have at least one rank 50 job. This time around however to blunt the effect of the surplus system we chose to switch back and forth between 2 classes. Once one hits fatigue we switch and go back and forth in that manner. Works well

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

You can get to 50 in less than a month logging in for only an hour and a half each reset and doing leves in a static group. You can ask anyone in my LS.

Simply put, if anyone is quitting over fatigue then a) they don't know how it works in reality and b) they don't have a good grasp on how SP works in this game in general.

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How are you acomplishing that with just 1.5 hours each reset. Me and my static party for 4ish hours each reset and we are on track it seems to get both jobs we are leveling up to 50 in about a two months or so from rank 20. So i do agree with the 1 month to get to 50 or alittle more but 1.5 hours, think thats abit of an exageration.

I am in favor of a system that gives you reasons to participate in certain events for more sp/exp.

I am in favor of a fatigue system where the lost sp/exp can be refunded back over time after fatigue reset (but still count towards next fatigue limit)

I am in favor of a fatigue system with slightly more leeway (about 10~15% more).

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Originally Posted by Galamantyl

I am in favor of a fatigue system with slightly more leeway (about 10~15% more).

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Hmm, adjusting is an acceptable option rather than removal.

And more likely as well.

Some way to save up time when you don't play at all to reduce the rate at which fatigue is incurred.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Several people I started playing the game with have quit the game. One of the biggest causes for them leaving was the surplus system. Please turn it off.

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So what is the difference in calling it surplus XP or Bonus XP as Blizzard did, it is the EXACT same system that WOW uses. Let me guess tho because Blizzard called it bonus it is good because SE called it surplus its crap?

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

So what is the difference in calling it surplus XP or Bonus XP as Blizzard did, it is the EXACT same system that WOW uses. Let me guess tho because Blizzard called it bonus it is good because SE called it surplus its crap?

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Actually you have no idea what you are talking about. Math is not on your side. In FFXIV if you grind day and night eventually you get to a point where you are receiving 0 SP, yes you read that correctly ZERO SP. How many hours does it take to reach that threshold in WoW? the answer is never you will NEVER(until you hat max level) get 0 SP for killing mobs in your level range no matter how much you grind. So you might want to learn more about the two systems before you declare them the same because in reality they are far far from being the same.

You do realize the chance of hitting 0 SP is so minute that if you actually managed to do so you really do just need to get a life. I do like SP soon as I goto yellow I know ive played top much and I go do other things.. And yes your right the difference in wow is it never hits 0 but in wow in 3 days you can also go 1-85 and no one cares. A system like that only benefits the top 1% of hardcore players, most of which right now are not FFXIV players. So before you decide to degrade someone on there skills 1 go back to basic english 101

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(until you hat max level)

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and 2 just go play the game, right now as it is designed I see no flaw with the current leveling system it is casual enough for me or hardcore enough if I want it to be for me. It may not suit you but so be it, right now it is designed so you know to bring your other jobs up to the same level, so that everything is even.