Even our content creators cannot pretend to like the trashy writings of Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by Mooserocka33

I am with zepla. Atleast she FINALLY gets it. The story was just bad it is ok to tell the devs something is not good. If you keep lying saying everything was great that is how you get endwalker. To where the devs were falling asleep it was so bad but everyone kept saying must consume more content they can do no wrong. I cant believe the comments omg she just hates on the game for clicks. No she is telling the truth of what she thinks . Even the one who never says bad things about the game mr happy was not liking everything. The story is just not that great but if you like it that is ok too.

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I haven't seen Mr Happy negative about the game ever. You wouldnt happen to have a link to something, even a Twitch Vod (no need for timestamp) to show this would you?

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Originally Posted by Davixxa

If your political opinions don't include trans people being safe, then no wonder that people who support trans people don't want to be friends with you.

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Have you ever heard the saying that goes "If you're gay and the only interesting thing about you is that you're gay, then you're boring?"

I'll say this as a gay man, the LGBTQ+ crowd doesn't want to stand within the circle but above it. I know this, because my experience with the Q+ crowd is basically them yelling virtue signals at you and telling you you're wrong or a monster. People have to go with the crowd, or they'll be ostracized, which I don't have issues with, but many do. Imagine a colored-hair white woman, calling themselves a non-normal pronoun, telling you how to be gay... as a gay man... that's life and it sucks. It's not about being pro-gay or lesbian anymore, it's about being special.

- On topic:
It's good that the content creators are sharing their disdain for the story, because they're the most visible to YoshiP. Will they be lenient on the game? Yeah, because media tour, but the game will have to pull a WoW for CC to break down and strike back.
What we have to wait for is those specific scenes we all hated, which broke us, because chances are it's going to break some of the CC as well.

CCs won't touch certain subjects though, because we've seen what happened with Hogwarts Legacy with how the LGBTQ+ crowd maliciously attacked people like Pikamee. That's when the Vtuber crowd started hating the TQ+ crowd btw, like REALLY hate. Unless you can make a huge noise, best they're going to do is cover the story, but in a lighter note because the cult is cruel.

I'm waiting to see how the ending Trial will affect their view. Otherwise, I don't bother with CCs much because I have a life.

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Originally Posted by ZavosEsperian

I haven't seen Mr Happy negative about the game ever. You wouldnt happen to have a link to something, even a Twitch Vod (no need for timestamp) to show this would you?

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He basically said that he found it "ok", like a straight line. It had a few little ups and downs but mostly an "ok" story. I think that's quit a fair and neutral opinion of the MSQ.
Everything else, my opinion included, is subjective stuff adding to that because we have different things that are important to us.
Happy for example never did strike me as someone who cared more about his WoL then some of us. So sidelining them wont annoy him as much.

Tbh for him that's actually as negative of the story you can get.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

So basically like with all access media people, an "OK" or a score of 7-8 is basically a subtle indictment.

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Never expected Mr. Happy to rip the story apart. He isn't really the person for that and I can kinda see his viewpoint I guess?
In my opinion the review and opinion of Preach is a bit more interesting for me.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

He basically said that he found it "ok", like a straight line. It had a few little ups and downs but mostly an "ok" story. I think that's quit a fair and neutral opinion of the MSQ.
Everything else, my opinion included, is subjective stuff adding to that because we have different things that are important to us.
Happy for example never did strike me as someone who cared more about his WoL then some of us. So sidelining them wont annoy him as much.

Tbh for him that's actually as negative of the story you can get.

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So basically like with all access media people, an "OK" or a score of 7-8 is basically a subtle indictment.

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Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

Have you ever heard the saying that goes "If you're gay and the only interesting thing about you is that you're gay, then you're boring?"

I'll say this as a gay man, the LGBTQ+ crowd doesn't want to stand within the circle but above it. I know this, because my experience with the Q+ crowd is basically them yelling virtue signals at you and telling you you're wrong or a monster. People have to go with the crowd, or they'll be ostracized, which I don't have issues with, but many do. Imagine a colored-hair white woman, calling themselves a non-normal pronoun, telling you how to be gay... as a gay man... that's life and it sucks. It's not about being pro-gay or lesbian anymore, it's about being special.

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To a certain degree, yes. If you're gay, and the only interesting thing about you is that you're gay, then you're boring. Absolutely. I want to stand within the crowd as a trans person, but jfc is that hard when every few weeks I hear about yet another person murdered for being trans, or about yet another politician wanting to make our lives harder, and this being added on-top of the constant loud noise of the usual suspects saying they want trans people to be locked far into the closet or worse.

Trans people aren't at the same level of acceptance that gay, lesbian and bi people are yet, unfortunately. And the whole "LGB without the TQ+" movement is just a wedge trying to worsen all LGBTQ+ lives. Not just the trans/queer people. We're just the first to go.

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Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

- On topic:
It's good that the content creators are sharing their disdain for the story, because they're the most visible to YoshiP. Will they be lenient on the game? Yeah, because media tour, but the game will have to pull a WoW for CC to break down and strike back.
What we have to wait for is those specific scenes we all hated, which broke us, because chances are it's going to break some of the CC as well.

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Agreed. Personally I find the story mostly inoffensive. I've got my gripes with it - Zone 6 feeling like a rehashed Amaurot for a lot of it.

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Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

CCs won't touch certain subjects though, because we've seen what happened with Hogwarts Legacy with how the LGBTQ+ crowd maliciously attacked people like Pikamee. That's when the Vtuber crowd started hating the TQ+ crowd btw, like REALLY hate. Unless you can make a huge noise, best they're going to do is cover the story, but in a lighter note because the cult is cruel.

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Pikamee literally came back as Henya, by the way. The contract with VShojo was on its way regardless, and the Pikamee brand would have to be phased out anyway. I'm not defending the harrassment, but to claim this as some sort of martyr justification from the VTuber crowd is nonsense - and likely not the point at which they started hating us anyway. The people that claim to start hating us because of that likely had their own prejudices beforehand.

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Originally Posted by Davixxa

What? Since when have I ever said that.

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??

What? That doesn't even make logical sense as a response. Read my post again with thought. And more importantly, read your own posts again with self awareness. You don't condone harassment? Really? You are constantly trying to convince us to cancel a streamer because they played a video game - The boycott of which involved a huge coordinated harassment campaign no less.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

??

What? That doesn't even make logical sense as a response. Read my post again with thought. And more importantly, read your own posts again with self awareness. You don't condone harassment? Really? You are constantly trying to convince us to cancel a streamer because they played a video game - The boycott of which involved a huge coordinated harassment campaign no less.

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I'm not. I'm just saying that I personally don't consider Zepla a person worth listening to because of her past actions. My focus was more on J. K. Rowling than on Zepla, and you'd know that if you had read through my posts.

I wouldn't call the "Have they played that Wizard Game" site a coordinated harrassment campaign, though I can absolutely see how those sites inevitably turn into fuel for that. I'm personally of the opinion that the site should never have existed - no matter how well intentioned the site may have been. People are always gonna go vigilante on it, hence why the site got shut down after 2 days. Same can be said about LoTT, the difference being that they haven't stopped. And since someone else brought up the VTuber community, neither did they. They responded back doing the exact same, but going against anyone that dared be even slightly pro-trans (even if they condemned the harassment), and last I checked, that document was still online. Granted that's been a while.

streamers and creators opinions don't matter to me, its one person like all of us. i liked all of DT and the side stuff, i liked being a side character in another's story of succession. not sarcastic i genuinely liked it. if these people influence your ideas or your looking for confirmation by cherry picking clips you don't think for yourself. this is just bait like most posts on NA forums.

Honestly, I made a mental note of the random goldsmith guy's existence and didn't really put too much thought into him. It's when we hit the second act that there is a wholesale ignoring of the scions' capabilities that forces a particular story direction by not addressing those capabilities. There is no barrier to asking Ali to conjure Angelo to cure an aether-sick child, for example. Our traversal to the edge of the universe put us in contact with a technologically advanced galaxy spanning civilization of robots, but we get text saying the WoL has never seen technology so advanced as that of section 9. As for whether we can free an individual of undo magical influence, we cured Hraesvalgr's sister of primal tempering, and the intrepid heroes required for that feat are all present. These strengths are entirely ignored. The writing is only going to get worse if they keep ignoring Shadowbringers and Endwalker feats when the relevant characters are present.

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Originally Posted by alfarini

streamers and creators opinions don't matter to me, its one person like all of us. i liked all of DT and the side stuff, i liked being a side character in another's story of succession. not sarcastic i genuinely liked it. if these people influence your ideas or your looking for confirmation by cherry picking clips you don't think for yourself. this is just bait like most posts on NA forums.

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It's not about being confirmed, it's about them having more of a voice than us, so yeah, we're kinda glad some people that can reach farther than us share our opinion.

Neat I guess.

People really get too emotionally attached to this game on both sides. Remember you aren't actually the WoL, all these people aren't real, being critical of a game you like or praising a game you don't like isn't a personal attack. Please for the love of god stop doing this, no wonder people looks at FFXIV players a cringe so often.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

It's not about being confirmed, it's about them having more of a voice than us, so yeah, we're kinda glad some people that can reach farther than us share our opinion.

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This is the point of this thread really. I think it is good for others who have larger audiences and have the reach to voice opinions in common to people who should hear it. A lot of them end up being invited to events and can directly interact with people, including Yoshida who has used critique from streamers and youtubers to improve/change the game.

I generally don't pay that much attention to them in any other capacitance. I will admit it is cathartic to hear someone like that share your opinions and many people do like this feeling outside of myself and the most I interact with their media would be listening to streams at work.

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Originally Posted by Davixxa

I'm not. I'm just saying that I personally don't consider Zepla a person worth listening to because of her past actions. My focus was more on J. K. Rowling than on Zepla, and you'd know that if you had read through my posts.

I wouldn't call the "Have they played that Wizard Game" site a coordinated harrassment campaign, though I can absolutely see how those sites inevitably turn into fuel for that. I'm personally of the opinion that the site should never have existed - no matter how well intentioned the site may have been. People are always gonna go vigilante on it, hence why the site got shut down after 2 days. Same can be said about LoTT, the difference being that they haven't stopped. And since someone else brought up the VTuber community, neither did they. They responded back doing the exact same, but going against anyone that dared be even slightly pro-trans (even if they condemned the harassment), and last I checked, that document was still online. Granted that's been a while.

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Wtf are you talking about? Past actions? So she played the Harry Potter game? So what. Are you going to lable everyone that plays, reads or watched something you don't like an IST or something? That's stupid and shallow.

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Originally Posted by ZavosEsperian

This is the point of this thread really. I think it is good for others who have larger audiences and have the reach to voice opinions in common to people who should hear it. A lot of them end up being invited to events and can directly interact with people, including Yoshida who has used critique from streamers and youtubers to improve/change the game.

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Don't worry, Yoshi-P is well aware of feedback provided on the forums.

I watched a bit of Zepla yesterday. Zepla was never one I could adapt to the vibes, there was nothing significant I took issue with her, but just something off. Just human things in general.

Either way I put on her latest MSQ vod on twitch needing to something to watch while eating and watching her utter exasperation and tiredness at what the MSQ was asking and pointing her to do, was ridiculously relatable. I found myself nodding while rewatching some stuff. Important to note that Zepla isn't rushing at all, that's an incredibly relaxed pace she is playing the MSQ so speed and momentum arguments The Dawntrail Defenders use over burnout just do not hold up. I'll be watching more of her Dawntrail stuff at least, when you are a solo player in XIV, watching a creator on the side with the same opinion, helps.

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Originally Posted by Davixxa

My focus was more on J. K. Rowling than on Zepla

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Oh! what's J. K. Rowlings Twitch stream again? i'd love to see what she thinks about Dawntrails since apparently now we're talking about content creators that have issues with the game we're all playing.

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Originally Posted by Davixxa

I'm not. I'm just saying that I personally don't consider Zepla a person worth listening to because of her past actions. My focus was more on J. K. Rowling than on Zepla, and you'd know that if you had read through my posts.

I wouldn't call the "Have they played that Wizard Game" site a coordinated harrassment campaign, though I can absolutely see how those sites inevitably turn into fuel for that. I'm personally of the opinion that the site should never have existed - no matter how well intentioned the site may have been. People are always gonna go vigilante on it, hence why the site got shut down after 2 days. Same can be said about LoTT, the difference being that they haven't stopped. And since someone else brought up the VTuber community, neither did they. They responded back doing the exact same, but going against anyone that dared be even slightly pro-trans (even if they condemned the harassment), and last I checked, that document was still online. Granted that's been a while.

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I do love the lefties, they are so funny at times.

They hate religions and yet don't seem to realise that they have founded a new age religion, and are behaving the same as all religions of the past. Apostasy and heresy burn the none believes :'D

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Originally Posted by Malthir

I do love the lefties, they are so funny at times.

They hate religions and yet don't seem to realise that they have founded a new age religion, and are behaving the same as all religions of the past. Apostasy and heresy burn the none believes :'D

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What makes it even funnier is that Zepla is an I Support Current Thing™️ drone like them, albeit apparently a patch behind, yet still gets thrown under the bus. They have no loyalty to each other.

zepla just wanted a taco but got endless suffering...

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Originally Posted by Astronema

zepla just wanted a taco but got endless suffering...

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Does it means that emo Meteion was right all along ?

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Originally Posted by Malia_Chan

Wtf are you talking about? Past actions? So she played the Harry Potter game? So what. Are you going to lable everyone that plays, reads or watched something you don't like an IST or something? That's stupid and shallow.

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It's less that she played the Harry Potter game, and more the reason she did. She saw the "Did they Stream that Wizard Game" site and said "Yeah that's my cue to play the game, never mind the fact that I'm actively funding someone whose ideals I claim to disagree with" when if she had just not chosen to play the game, literally nothing would have come of it. She could even criticise the site for all I care.

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Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

Oh! what's J. K. Rowlings Twitch stream again? i'd love to see what she thinks about Dawntrails since apparently now we're talking about content creators that have issues with the game we're all playing.

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Don't need a twitch stream. Her twitter is more than enough of a grift already lmao.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

I do love the lefties, they are so funny at times.

They hate religions and yet don't seem to realise that they have founded a new age religion, and are behaving the same as all religions of the past. Apostasy and heresy burn the none believes :'D

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Wrong, actually. Most of us don't hate religions. Most of us have a dislike towards Christianity because of the horrible things it's been used to justify over the past thousand years.

Though even then, I don't have a dislike towards Christianity, just certain denominations (for example; American Evangelicals/Fundamentalists)

Also no. I don't believe Zepla should be burnt on a stake or anything. I just don't find her worth listening to because I think she's a shitty person. I'm not saying this should hold true for others. I'm merely posting my own opinion of her.

Anyone watching Preach (I'm not atm) got any highlight of his reviews of what is currently happening in DT MSQ? Last I saw is a clip of him reacting to English Wuk Lamat's speech at the balcony of the palace, after dragging the WoL up there. Is he warming up to it, souring more or keeping a neutral view point until he has all the cards in his hands on completion?

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Originally Posted by Ruris

Anyone watching Preach (I'm not atm) got any highlight of his reviews of what is currently happening in DT MSQ? Last I saw is a clip of him reacting to English Wuk Lamat's speech at the balcony of the palace, after dragging the WoL up there. Is he warming up to it, souring more or keeping a neutral view point until he has all the cards in his hands on completion?

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He is 50:50 about it.
It had stuff he liked and stuff he hated.
He hated the pacing
Wuk Lamat has far too much spotlight and the sidelining of the scions annoys him. He was frustrated with it.
He liked the scene with Kriles parents (the flashback)

You can watch it all here at the 5:23:50 mark (when the credits beginn).
There he more or less gives a short summary of his.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwVbUaoUkHg

I don't know why she's malding - the story wasn't that bad.
Some things didn't make sense but we can hope for explanations in post-patch content, at least for most of it.
(Regulators are pretty dumb, for example, and the cosmic horror of server engineering known as Living Memory can be chalked up to the stupidity of the ancient Alexandrians rather than writing)

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Originally Posted by SteakDriven

I don't know why she's malding - the story wasn't that bad.

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You're right. It was worse.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

He is 50:50 about it.
It had stuff he liked and stuff he hated.
He hated the pacing
Wuk Lamat has far too much spotlight and the sidelining of the scions annoys him. He was frustrated with it.
He liked the scene with Kriles parents (the flashback)

You can watch it all here at the 5:23:50 mark (when the credits beginn).
There he more or less gives a short summary of his.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwVbUaoUkHg

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Thank you! and for providing a timestamp, I shall definitely give that a watch.

Sounds like he was fair enough with his conclusion and I personally would think more than fair is 50:50 but opinions differ naturally.

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Originally Posted by SteakDriven

I don't know why she's malding - the story wasn't that bad.
Some things didn't make sense butwe can hope for explanations in post-patch content, at least for most of it.

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This is why people accuse the defenders of the story of "copium". They had 30 fucking hours to tell a decent, even a middling story. Through which most of us kept powering through with similar copium, like "okay, slow start, but surely now it will pick up?"

To my shame, by hour 15, I hadn't called out the writing yet, not fully. But it's shit writing, and no additional content is going to change that at this point.

I just finished reading the first book of a series. It took me two weeks to complete at about 20-25 hours invested. Thankfully that book was great and I am now reading the second book. If that book had been awful, I would not be reading the second book. Dawntrail, for all intents and purposes, is the first book of a new arc.

I am getting exasperated at the "It's the start of a new arc, it's ok to be bad" argument. I'm sure we all are. It's not even reasonable enough to constitute being 'an argument' What it is, is a juvenile coping method of trying to defend a product you can't make a proper case to protect, you'd rather brush off all reasonable criticism as if the critics do not understand. Which is your make believe reasoning that Dawntrail is free from criticism until further notice.

Dawntrail is a full product, released to customers after years of development. If you are going to sit there and tell me, Square Enix worked on this under the assumption that it was OK to churn something such poor quality because they were immune due to one Yoshi-P quote, tell me. I hope you hear how ridiculous you sound while doing so.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

This is why people accuse the defenders of the story of "copium". They had 30 fucking hours to tell a decent, even a middling story. Through which most of us kept powering through with similar copium, like "okay, slow start, but surely now it will pick up?"

To my shame, by hour 15, I hadn't called out the writing yet, not fully. But it's shit writing, and no additional content is going to change that at this point.

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Listen, I have seen some hot-ass garbage in my time - and Dawntrail is hardly the worst thing I've ever seen. It's not "great" or even "that good", but it isn't the Second Coming of My Immortal like some people seem to reckon.

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Originally Posted by SteakDriven

Listen, I have seen some hot-ass garbage in my time - and Dawntrail is hardly the worst thing I've ever seen. It's not "great" or even "that good", but it isn't the Second Coming of My Immortal like some people seem to reckon.

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But you do realize "it's not the worst [writing] I've ever seen" is not a compliment, though?

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

But you do realize "it's not the worst [writing] I've ever seen" is not a compliment, though?

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Perhaps not, but Zepla is being too dramatic.
Ohhh I'm in a mist, everything is bad, I've got a funny feeling in my toeee!

Edit: Nothing irritates me more than "you do know [x], right" statements.

Jesse is still early, and with his expectations he's probably going to be happy about things.

Zepla is a joke to the community, and also those clowns with mics will do anything for clicks.

Cider being dumbfounded by the ending and then boosting the music to 100 while Smile was playing during the credits to troll chat and laughing about the Scion VAs appearing there for their 5 lines really summed the experience up.
(Why did you troll me with the Pepsi ad song man...)

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

Cider being dumbfounded by the ending and then boosting the music to 100 while Smile was playing during the credits to troll chat and laughing about the Scion VAs appearing there for their 5 lines really summed the experience up.
(Why did you troll me with the Pepsi ad song man...)

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Yeah, I’ve been watching Cider’s MSQ journey once he got to zone 6. He did NOT seem to be enjoying himself, and had much to complain about the MSQ experience. Him trolling chat with the credits though was damn funny.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

The writing in dawntrail was good. I get the feeling people who didn't like it can only appreciate the parts of literature when things are coming to a climax. world-building, character development over time, these things are still good parts of stories.

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What an awful take. I guarantee you there are plenty of people who dislike DT's writing that grew up reading authors who spent much of their time on world building and character development, this is a fantasy genre after all and many of us got into high fantasy from books.

I love long detailed world building and character development, some of my favorite authors are notorious for that. Take for example the Silmarillion and pretty much all of Tolkein's work, which has a huge emphasis on world building. Robert Jordan is another that had extremely lengthy world building. I love many books that don't even have a real "conclusion" and are just character development, like the novella, The Slow Regard for Silent Things, by Patrick Rothfuss, which is nothing more than giving you an insight into the life of Auri.

I think Dawntrail's writing is bad. Wuk Lamat, who basically overwhelms the story is nothing more than a Naruto trope with less depth. Wuk Lamat, the bumbling happy go lucky idiot who overcomes all odds to become Hokage, I mean Dawnservant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearcat01

Yeah, I’ve been watching Cider’s MSQ journey once he got to zone 6. He did NOT seem to be enjoying himself, and had much to complain about the MSQ experience. Him trolling chat with the credits though was damn funny.

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he can't even think of a moment he liked, oof

Most content creators seemed to be pretty honest about their reactions

But I wonder which ones are faking it and appeared extremely enthusiastic throughout the whole MSQ and even cheering the many cringe moments in this trainwreck ride lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearcat01

Yeah, I’ve been watching Cider’s MSQ journey once he got to zone 6. He did NOT seem to be enjoying himself, and had much to complain about the MSQ experience. Him trolling chat with the credits though was damn funny.

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His confession of "by zone 6, I didn't even care anymore, if I wasn't streaming I wouldn't even be playing this" is really telling.
I actually think he'll be happy and get hyped for Arcadion, but the raid series is really the saving grace at the end, because otherwise the msq really ends on a terrible note.
I feel bad that he pushed himself to entertain the audience tho... but well, he can join the Honey B. fan club soon :>

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Originally Posted by fioravictorine

snip.

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Those that I've checked were quite candid. I'm sure some will fake their reactions, but 30 hours is a chore, so those I checked started to mentally check out around zone 4.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brian25

What an awful take. I guarantee you there are plenty of people who dislike DT's writing that grew up reading authors who spent much of their time on world building and character development, this is a fantasy genre after all and many of us got into high fantasy from books.

I love long detailed world building and character development, some of my favorite authors are notorious for that. Take for example the Silmarillion and pretty much all of Tolkein's work, which has a huge emphasis on world building. Robert Jordan is another that had extremely lengthy world building. I love many books that don't even have a real "conclusion" and are just character development, like the novella, The Slow Regard for Silent Things, by Patrick Rothfuss, which is nothing more than giving you an insight into the life of Auri.

I think Dawntrail's writing is bad. Wuk Lamat, who basically overwhelms the story is nothing more than a Naruto trope with less depth. Wuk Lamat, the bumbling happy go lucky idiot who overcomes all odds to become Hokage, I mean Dawnservant.

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Not that versed in manga genres, but as i've seen some mention and looking at the genres. It's like FFXIV was more in the line of the Gekiga genre, however with the post EW void story and DT it's been leaning more into Shonen.