#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

Hey... Cleric Stance-ignoring Lustrate existed in ARR

1. Tanks have to much self-healing and self-sustaine.

2: DPS should get their self heal removed , RDM/SMN should have their ress removed.

3. Higher Healing Requirements.
More unavoidable dmg and dot dmg..ect

4. Healer dps kit reworked!
I don't think adding more dps button solves the fundamental issue with it,
it need complete rework.
(You can have fun and engaging dps kit w/o many buttons with great design).

I lean more toward higher healing requirements , and making healers needed
than adding just more dps buttons to blated kit.

(These are the Issues i have had with ffxiv healer deisgn - since i started (EW))

Note: Is it big enough of a problem to make me quit playing healer in DT? No.
But if there is a change that this will be addressed/worked upon i will gladly join.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Good healer gameplay in FFXIV is all about striking a balance between your healing and your DPS.

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Unfortunately since certain website exists now GCD healing = not as good colored number = bad.

things are getting desperate I assume

Ya... uhmmm, good healer gameplay right now is to do as little healing as possible whole doing as much dps as possible.

It's going to be hilarious when DT launches, there's no healer shortage, and people are confronted with the fact that social media is a small, self-selecting echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

I'm not touching healer for DT in any content except maybe trusts.

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I didn't think of this! If people need to play healer for their savage statics then level only in trust! If you want to do MSQ as healer, do it in duty support!

Whatever we do, DO NOT play healer in roulette,normal duty finder, or party finder!
We need the greater community to see, hear, and FEEL the shortage of healers in all content!

I only heal in casual content (quick queues because nobody else wants to “play” healer lol) but I think you shouldn’t need to do the hardest content in the game on a role in order to actually have fun playing it. Casual content doesn’t do a very good job of teaching people how to play the role, since outside of niche situations it doesn’t place much stress on them. This is also the only game I have ever played where healing big pulls in dungeons gets significantly easier as you level up, to the point where you literally have to do nothing (a somewhat competent DRK in expert barely needs whispering dawn). If EW patches and Dawntrail are going to be the new player experience at some point, players who choose to play a healer will struggle to get any feedback from the game about how their skills are developing, at least until they fight Zeromus. In a dungeon like Lunar Subterrane though it literally does not matter what buttons you press, and I think that’s insulting to the player’s intelligence

They either need to give healers a damage rotation equivalent to that of a non-WAR tank and basically turn them into proper support DPS (and consolidate many healing abilities in the process), nerf set and forget party-wide tank heal/shields like SIO and veil, increase outgoing unavoidable damage and its frequency,, or some combination of those things.

I just want healer to be fun to play at all levels of the game and I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I was just in VC with a friendo and rambling about this earlier. We were (half) joking about wanting to create or join All Healer-PFs at least for MSQ dungeon/trial progression just because it'd be a nice gesture to refuse being a part of community service that is helping DF queue popping lmao.

"Yeah I'll go in as a healer only for my healer main brethren lmfao."

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I think this would be fun AF! I'll be joining!

I'm adding my name as well cause yeah I guess what is the point of healers with these new skills lol XD cool

It started in stormblood.
And in heavensward that was 1 healer 3 dps (no tank) yet nobody complained about it.

They don't want to make dungeons hard. So you don't need healer, or tank either.
As long there is no hard hitting tank buster you can even do it with 4 dps if they know what trey are doing.

Keep in mind there is people who struggle doing dungeons even with a normal team, wiping on simple pack or bosses, and they have to cater to them.

Thanks for the faster queue for my healer btw. (I doubt it gonna do anything except the usual shortage of tank/healer because of new dps, usual)

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

It start in stormblood.
And in heavensward that was 1 healer 3 dps (no tank) yet nobody complained about it.

They don't want to make dungeons hard. So you don't need healer, or tank either.
As long there is no hard hitting tank buster you can even do it with 4 dps if they know what trey are doing.

Keep in mind there is people who struggle doing dungeons even with a normal team, wiping on simple pack or bosses, and they have to cater to them.

Thanks for the faster queue for my healer btw. (I doubt it gonna do anything except the usual shortage of tank/healer because of new dps, usual)

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It's the sad reality in regards to people not being able to complete content, but that's because they don't want to learn. They want to have their hand held - and that's fine. Your veteran healers are going to be going away regardless since they've been jaded for 4 years and counting since Shadowbringers, so take it as you will.

The only thing we can do here on the forums is simply scream into the void because it's where Yoshida told us our input would be brought - but where has that gotten us? Nowhere.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Ya... uhmmm, good healer gameplay right now is to do as little healing as possible whole doing as much dps as possible.

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Well...if things die faster, then less healing is needed...so more DPS means less healing anyways.

Sure, the potency of all non-healer role sustains could be lowered, but not likely to happen in the near future.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

It's already buried! Don't worry. The invite will have its own thread later!

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Thanks so much for putting the Discord together, and for the invite! I'll post the link to my FC when I log on a but later.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Oh yeah, freecure is still confirmed to be in the game in DW :D

SE really has no dedicated healer job designer, huh.

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I'll never forget when I had to explain to a level 90 WHM why you should just ignore freecure. You've got lillies sis, use them!

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Unfortunately since certain website exists now GCD healing = not as good colored number = bad.

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This isn't some kind of new phenomenon caused by FFlogs.

If your win condition is to make the health bar reach 0 in a certain timeframe then "improving" your gameplay means you perform your primary role while you eliminate unnecessary actions that do not contribute to making the health bar reach 0.

The reason why GCD healing is generally considered bad nowadays is a consequence of CBU3's design decisions, making the healer role completely bloated with oGCDs that allow you to keep the party alive while never causing you to not contribute to lowering that health bar, therefore making all GCD healing unnecessary actions.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

It's the sad reality in regards to people not being able to complete content, but that's because they don't want to learn. They want to have their hand held - and that's fine. Your veteran healers are going to be going away regardless since they've been jaded for 4 years and counting since Shadowbringers, so take it as you will.

The only thing we can do here on the forums is simply scream into the void because it's where Yoshida told us our input would be brought - but where has that gotten us? Nowhere.

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I doubt it gonna do anything tbh. Most people outside of the official forum don't care anyway and the forum is maybe 1% of playerbase.
Most people are super casual who don't even know what gonna happen in DT and gonna enjoy the game as usual, playing healer if they want to. What happen in this thread is a drop in an ocean.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Unfortunately since certain website exists now GCD healing = not as good colored number = bad.

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That was already a thing before that even exist. Even tanks droped the tank stance (when that stance reduced your dps back then) to do more damage at risk to take more damage/lose aggro (since it wasn't as easy to keep it as now)
You don't even need to care about aggro as tank anymore for ages and I don't remember people talking about it.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Over the last 10 years playing this I've never been in a high end raid situation where healers aren't needed. But. Maybe you guys are playing a different game than I am.

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Ok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gi05HqdMSs

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Well...if things die faster, then less healing is needed...so more DPS means less healing anyways.

Sure, the potency of all non-healer role sustains could be lowered, but not likely to happen in the near future.

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Tbh, I don't care much about non-healer role sustains, I think crossparty dynamics are a good thing. There use to be way more of them.

I'm more focused on healer gameplay and the dissonance it creates. The game should be at its most fun when everyone is playing well, but the better everyone is the worse the gameplay is for healers. Your reward for being good at your job is a 2 button dps rotation with a few bells and whistles.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Call me crazy, but I have fun playing healer. Most of the time I am really busy in a dungeon.

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I wish I was too, but it just doesn't happen for me very often. When I do end up with a meme group, or a undergeared tank, it is very fun, but those moments are so few and far between.

Healers are dependant on other people playing poorely, which isn't great, when Tanks and DPS don't have that problem. It's like I have to pray to the twelve that I get paired with the worst players, so I can enjoy my role.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

It's going to be hilarious when DT launches, there's no healer shortage, and people are confronted with the fact that social media is a small, self-selecting echo chamber.

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Do you really think that those supporting/participating in #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE think that day 1 of DT launch will crash due to a healer shortage? This isn't even what we want. I am quite positive queues will operate as normal with the exception of much longer DPS queues because everyone will be playing the new jobs. In which the case, you would want as many healers as possible queuing up. Have fun!

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

Thanks for the faster queue for my healer btw. (I doubt it gonna do anything except the usual shortage of tank/healer because of new dps, usual)

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These statements are funny to me because, 1. You actually don't understand how the algorithm works; and, 2. If you believe healers will not strike, then how will the queues be faster for your healer?

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Originally Posted by Its_Kazzy_D

I'll never forget when I had to explain to a level 90 WHM why you should just ignore freecure. You've got lillies sis, use them!

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I’ve been paired with a WHM in Endsinger EX farm party who genuinely had no idea what Lilybell was, and also said ”Temperance doesn’t feel like they do anything.” after 2nd wipe.

I was mentally damaged so bad I just decided to bail & take a break for the rest of that evening lol.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Do you really think that those supporting/participating in #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE think that day 1 of DT launch will crash due to a healer shortage? This isn't even what we want. I am quite positive queues will operate as normal with the exception of much longer DPS queues because everyone will be playing the new jobs. In which the case, you would want as many healers as possible queuing up. Have fun!


These statements are funny to me because, 1. You actually don't understand how the algorithm works; and, 2. If you believe healers will not strike, then how will the queues be faster for your healer?

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Sarcasm isn't your forte I guess. The queue will not be faster than usual as healer, it's instant most of the time anyway, especially in early x.0 patch; no I don't believe it will be faster.
I don't need to understand how your algorithm works to know that every time there is new dps, the queue time for them is longer. (I don't even understand what algo you are talking about, and that won't change the fact that the number of people here who gonna really do it (not using healer because of the "healer problem") is probably gonna be low compare to the number of people who doesn't care)
Most people are super casual and that "problem" doesn't affect them.

I'm not playing healer either unless something changes for the better, but I don't expect such changes until 8.0. What ever bandaid they could put on in the meantime anyway?

Thank goodness PCT got me really hooked in from what I've seen so far.

Adding a +1 here. I have rarely ever felt the need or desire to post on these forums except when it came to healer gameplay, and even then I was seldom moved from apathy. I'm refusing to buy Dawntrail because I do not wish to support developers that, insultingly, ask for feedback on their designs to be put here but stick their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge said feedback. Enough is enough. I'm only going to help my friends finish up clearing the Criterion dungeons as a Sage, and then I'm unsubbing.

Astrologian is what got me interested in Heavensward all those years ago, and I went through pre-buffed Astro with joy. Even doing Main Scenario quests as a healer back then, I found enough engagement on Scholar to have a satisfying experience, but no longer. The only way I'd consider coming back would be if they fully address the gameplay and thematic failings in healers. I hope the movement gets enough momentum to make positive change.

I like the idea, but I don't have confidence that it will make a difference. With that said, I definitely will be joining in. I want to be able to play as a healer and actually have fun. I want to be able to enjoy myself in casual content, god forbid in solo duties or instances the way DPS jobs and even tanks to a lesser extent can. Make healers great again :P

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Originally Posted by Its_Kazzy_D

I'll never forget when I had to explain to a level 90 WHM why you should just ignore freecure. You've got lillies sis, use them!

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This is more problem with not teaching how to use your full skillset. Still having cure1/2, and those comparable, at lv 90 is only one of the problems with healers. Healing tools on top of healin tools whithout really thinking what does the role and jobs really need is something incredibly frustrating. Why give more healing tools when there isn't enough incentive to learn how to use them?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You know, it’s funny. DPS optimization was basically not a thing even high end raiders cared about on healers back then, but if we were to transport back to ARR, it’s interesting to compare Lustrate to Adloquium. Because back then, Ruin’s potency was 80 while Energy Drain’s was 150. It’s actually the reverse where Adloquium was the better tool for DPS and Lustrate was worse. But Aldo costed a lot of MP and didn’t actually restore much HP. Lustrate healed more and could heal through Cleric Stance. It’s wild how interesting the dynamic between those actions was, and it’s a shame we didn’t have the knowledge and understanding of the games systems to better appreciate it back then, because there’s such an interesting choice to make between the two.

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And yet dps optimization as healer was a thing in Bahamut ARR and became more apparent during the last tier. Everyone in the team used poison potion as early as the first tier. Dot uptime etc. You had to actually cast heal back then, but whenever you didn't have to you either refreshed your dot or cast a rock or something to do damage. There were even healers going melee range to do more damage with AA. DPS check on the only savage version (second tier) was crazy too.

Healers kinda brought it on themselves, SE listened to your feedback and put more weight onto oGCD heals meaning you weren't hardcasting them as much.

Healers also complained about the lack of time they're able to deal damage, so they gave others better defensive kits.

Now healers are complaining that those defensive kits given to others have invalidated their role and that SE doesn't listen to them?

Cmon guys something's got to give.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

Healers kinda brought it on themselves, SE listened to your feedback and put more weight onto oGCD heals meaning you weren't hardcasting them as much.

Healers also complained about the lack of time they're able to deal damage, so they gave others better defensive kits.

Now healers are complaining that those defensive kits given to others have invalidated their role and that SE doesn't listen to them?

Cmon guys something's got to give.

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I'm gonna need a citation for this because I have read countless problems with healers across the years and none of what you've said has ever even brought up in all the threads that I've seen, either on these forums, Reddit, Twitter or any other social media site.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You know, it’s funny. DPS optimization was basically not a thing even high end raiders cared about on healers back then, but if we were to transport back to ARR, it’s interesting to compare Lustrate to Adloquium. Because back then, Ruin’s potency was 80 while Energy Drain’s was 150. It’s actually the reverse where Adloquium was the better tool for DPS and Lustrate was worse. But Aldo costed a lot of MP and didn’t actually restore much HP. Lustrate healed more and could heal through Cleric Stance. It’s wild how interesting the dynamic between those actions was, and it’s a shame we didn’t have the knowledge and understanding of the games systems to better appreciate it back then, because there’s such an interesting choice to make between the two.

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Well.. We also had to manage not to over heal lest we rip enmity off the tank. Not to mention that in a trash pull, Bane is already a non-negotiable + Swiftcast Shadowflare, then spam Blizzard 2. God, I miss those days.

And yes, Ruin's potency is just as much as a Bio 2 + Miasma + Aero + Bio tick.. heck even less so missing a few Ruins isn't much of a loss.

Joining the strike. Been a player off and on since ARR - I miss the team challenge and coordination balance of healing and relying on each other. Always been a healer - left WoW because I believe this game has better combat. Changed to RDM last two xpacs because I can still heal while having something interesting to do (I don’t personally want that to be dps btw, but this isn’t an argument about what we should do more of).

I hate that the healer skills are used almost only when tanks see giant pulls ans the norm and there’s no need to communication. I don’t enjoy being dragged along.

We’ve morphed into siloed roles to where only group mechanics really bring us together. Help us help ourselves through collaboration and not through only “doing your individual part”. We’re better as a party. Heck, EW’s narrative told us this.

I believe no role is feeling the worst effects of the “focus on yourself” more than the healer - who finds joy in their role from team enablement not just team recovery. I was stoked to get into AST - hopeful to broadly replace my dps rotations with minor buffs - I’d rather buff than dps. Was hoping AST would have more of a heal and buff cycle and Whm would be more heal and dps cycle.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I'm gonna need a citation for this because I have read countless problems with healers across the years and none of what you've said has ever even brought up in all the threads that I've seen, either on these forums, Reddit, Twitter or any other social media site.

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They are right, didn't you see the 4 year long thread of feedback on the healer forum? The first point there is clearly that we want more oGCDs and the second is clearly that we want to heal less.

/s in case someone don't get it

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

They are right, didn't you see the 4 year long thread of feedback on the healer forum? The first point there is clearly that we want more oGCDs and the second is clearly that we want to heal less.

/s in case someone don't get it

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Did you link the right thing, or is this sarcasm?

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Did you link the right thing, or is this sarcasm?

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Its sarcasm

The /s was already a dead giveaway.

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Originally Posted by jonjon082

Been a player off and on since ARR - I miss the team challenge and coordination balance of healing and relying on each other.

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As much as being able to handle yourself on a tank or a DPS can be fun, it felt better when the holy trinity mattered. Because now I just genuinely don't have to care about the healer.

I was in Lapis Manalis earlier on DRG. The healer and a DPS died. Me and the tank kept being left to duo the boss without a healer (spoiler: we did, thanks Bloodbath, Second Wind, thanks Nascent Flash, thanks Shake It Off, thanks Feint, not that we even needed these).

Due to the healer and a DPS dying, I was waiting with the tank next to the adds. I just looked at the tank as if to say "go on then", because we don't exactly need a healer lol. Good tank went and pulled big without the healer and we were fine while they caught up.

Usually if there's no healer in a dungeon when I'm tanking, I just pull anyways. It's good for there to be a possiblity of soloing if you're really good and just barely clutch it, but it being so ridiculously easy to achieve makes you not even value the healer role when doing a dungeon.

Reading this - I have information I'd like from those calling for a strike. (1/2)

Firstly, it seems to me that the straw that has broke the metaphorical camel's back is the successful completion of the story dungeon in the Media Tour build of Dawntrail. With that being the case, is it a fair assessment to say that a central goal of this strike is to make it so healers are required to execute on that type of content? That is, it is this group's opinion that there should be no scenario where one can complete a dungeon without a healer present?

Secondly. what brings you joy as a healer? Why do you play the job? For me, I appreciate that the power I'm furnished with as it pertains to the health of the party. I derive joy from seeing no damage done to the party because of extra strong shields or recovering the party to full from low health with the press of a couple of buttons.

(2/2)
Finally, I'd like to understand what is the highest level of content completed as a healer by any of the individuals calling for the strike. I ask this because it feels awkward to call for dungeons to be the strongest showcase of healer need. Dungeons, specifically story dungeons, are meant to be accessed by the community as a whole. Anyone who has purchased Dawntrail will have to go through the story and complete the dungeons. As is common knowledge, there is a skill bell curve and that content has to be at a threshold that would allow for successful completion, even by those that skew to the left side of it. For example, I still get healers that are incapable of esuna-ing a debuff in a dungeon (Dead Ends). Following that logic, it tracks that because of the lower threshold of difficulty, the content can be completed without a healer. So, to me, dungeons should not be how we assess healer need. If there are healers feeling like they aren't being challenged enough, but they also refuse to engage with content that centers the role more prominently (extremes, savage, ultimate), then they should assess whether they are architect of their own dismay.

I want to stay on this point for just a bit because I suspect the response will be something that alludes to content that has been completed without a healer, specifically ultimate content. UCOB being cleared without a healer is no large feat to me. Power creep has enabled all sorts of wild things to happen in that fight. And before the healer-less TOP clear is mentioned, that one clear (which undoubtedly required a great deal of effort to pull off along with some luck) is not the norm for the community. To date, I have not seen a single PF for The Omega Protocol that is seeking to complete it with less than 2 healers. In other words, it is unfair to blow up these edge cases when the reality is that the community will always opt for the path of least resistance when completing content - and that path will mostly entail having 2 healers for most 8-man content.

Final piece on this point is that I get the impression that the state of healers is being assessed in a vacuum based on healer design showcased in the job action trailer information. As such, it seems premature for us to assess the state of healers in Dawntrail without having seen what end-game content will look like. In other words, job design is meant to be complementary to fight design (see 2 minute meta for a very specific example). The addition of more mitigation and healing throughput suggests that there will be more healing-intensive mechanics that are on the horizon in Dawntrail (specifically content that is outside the range of just dungeons or even extremes). It may be more productive to assess the goals of a strike after having all the information if we are really seeking to call out for a change.