Change/Remove Lalafell "Lifter"...

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Originally Posted by OziAuros

It is a reasonable assumption that when someone enters a bar, they might want to drink. What do you expect people to expect?

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A good portion of dwarven culture in-game revolves around them drinking.

If I were to RP a lore accurate dwarf are you saying my character isn’t allowed to drink?

* points to my character *

See the beard? Glowy eyes? Horns?

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Originally Posted by BuffyFluffy

People have Died because of the lengths of harassment people commit to on attacking the lalafell playerbase,

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Originally Posted by BuffyFluffy

...Yer joking, right?


Oh no, your catgirl was called a catgirl. Please, get back to me when you've been Stalked IRL and tracked via IP, had your phone and email harassed Hourly, and be coerced into Race changing by threats of Violence, Arson, Robbery, or just straight up Death threats, just for being a Miqote.

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I am so glad I came back to this thread, my sides are in orbit.

They targeted lalafells.

Lalafells.

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Originally Posted by OziAuros

In this thread: A whole group of people throwing a childish tantrum over people thinking this group is childish. Astounding how that ends up working out.

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I bet you read over this once before posting and thought, yeah, this is definitely adding a unique voice and sentiment to the discussion that is sorely needed.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

A good portion of dwarven culture in-game revolves around them drinking.

If I were to RP a lore accurate dwarf are you saying my character isn’t allowed to drink?

* points to my character *

See the beard? Glowy eyes? Horns?

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Don't you know? Giott was getting wasted on frothy, non-alcoholic apple cider clearly.

/s

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Originally Posted by Midare

Don't you know? Giott was getting wasted on frothy, non-alcoholic apple cider clearly.

/s

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Haha!

Yes. All the cutscenes just had the dwarves pretending to be drunk. Like the cutscene in the dwarf tribe quest line. They were stumbling for the fun of it. Snrk. /s

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Originally Posted by OziAuros

It is a reasonable assumption that when someone enters a bar, they might want to drink. What do you expect people to expect?

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The issue is not that someone entering a bar may want a drink, but that people like you have an inability to mentally grasp that a gnome shaped like a triangle looks nothing akin to a child. This would be ultimately fine, as on it's own that hurts nobody, but people with media illiteracy like yourself choose to persecute people who play Lalafell based on your own impairments. If the end result of this was even people saying "I'd rather not be around Lalafells." Then we could live with that. Unfortunately instead, we get labelled with one of the worst things you could call a person, and treated like perverts, whether we RP or not, simply because we choose to play as a video game gnome. I'm certain at this point that you are just trolling and being willfully ignorant, but I think its better to argue in good faith.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

I had no idea insulting people made them change their minds.

In addition, I’d take care with your wording. The moderation team on here is actually pretty strict about direct insults.

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Report deez

But can you reach the report button little man?

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Originally Posted by Pratini

Report deez

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It’s the fact you typed this and blasted other people for being ‘childish’

That’s too funny.

Also I’m a woman. And yes I can. With ease :)

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Originally Posted by CobaltH

...but people with media illiteracy like yourself choose to persecute people who play Lalafell based on your own impairments.

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Is this intended or unintended comedy? I can't tell.

Where is the egg basket for au ras?

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Originally Posted by OziAuros

Imagine, if you would, someone being dumbfounded that their lalafell isn't being allowed into a bar venue. Not even one of a billion brothels, but a bar. Everyone there is going to end up with the mental picture of the little guy taking a swig. There are people out there who have chosen to play a toddler-adjacent character, and wanted to get their sippy on because they don't see the issue. There are also people out there that pick the toddler-adjacent character to go to the same bar with hopes of ERPing. Might even be with another toddler-adjacent character. How do you tell in advance which is which?

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To be fair, no one should ever be excluded from any venue because of their race. I was asked to leave a venue once because it had courtesans and they were uncomfortable having a Lala around. I flat out told them "No thanks. I think I'll stay around. " They were a bit confused, but didn't harass me. I expected I might get reported and messaged by a GM, but nope, nothing.

Unless you have someone actually making a scene, you have no business telling certain players or races that they can't be around.

All of the little lalafell pfps in outrage is making me laugh so hard ngl

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Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

All of the little lalafell pfps in outrage is making me laugh so hard ngl

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Good contender for the best useless drama of the year.

This is pure gold.

I can't take Lalafell discourse seriously because of the sheer amount of times outspoken figures in the "Lalafells are adults!" crowd have been outed as actually being into underage content.

Sorry, I really don't understand how this chair itself is supposed to be infantilizing. Honestly.
A baby Chair looks a fair bit different, with them not only having a bigger back to lean up against in, but also being designed to quite literally contain a child in a way that doesn't let them fall out of said chair.

This genuinely looks to me like someone in Eorzea/the wider World of the Game noticed that Lalafells need chairs etc that are taller to be able to sit at tables made with larger races in mind. Even if you rename it from Lalafell Lifter to something like "Lifter Chair" or whatever doesn't do anything to change that. The Design of it is just cutesy to me, kinda like how Lalafell are supposed to be cutesy.

Of course there's also technical limitations to consider. Someone already said it earlier but I doubt with the current Spaghetti Code of the Game it's possible to specifically design furniture just for a specific race, so this chair does fill a certain niche in that regard and I wish it actually was even taller to actually lift anyone sitting on it higher up.

i get some is mad about it but its just furniture.

i have barely eny one talking to me in game or outside it eny how so im just happy some just jk around whit it giving me some attention.

its not like it vill change hu i am and/or as the race i play as i just enjoy it. this funny pink chair is a cuple of poligons and lalafells are just lalafells not children or eny thing of sorts its how simple it is atleast for me that is

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Originally Posted by Midare

One thing that would help is, I don't know... not giving those people extra ammo.

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Right, so what you actually mean to say is that you don't want any item in-game that can be misused or misconstrued in any way whatsoever? Got it. Grab me some candyfloss whilst you're all the way up there in the clouds, will you? The grass will still be here, waiting for you, when you're ready to come back down to Earth.

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Originally Posted by Midare

Sure, they have the right to do it, but that doesn't help either nor contributes anything

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The purpose of complaining about the complaint is to show disagreement with the people wanting to take something away from the people who actually like it, which is a far better use of time than crying over something that you aren't forced to interact with.

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Originally Posted by Midare

First and foremost... the fact that you're conflating stature with age it's just mind boggling to me. Since when those are synonymous?

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First and foremost... the fact that you think I'm conflating the two is just mind boggling to me. Since when did I say they're synonymous?

I said what I said. If you're having a hard time understanding why an extremely short character designed in a toddler-like fashion resembles children in any way whatsoever then I think you've got more pressing issues to worry about.

Maybe go back and read what I said again, and you'll see that I wasn't conflating anything.

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Originally Posted by Midare

They're not even here to defend the item being there, they're here to just complain that the complain exists in the first place while calling those with the concern childish, while also using the phrasing a high-schooler would use.

Your double standards are showing.

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You don't get to police how other people choose to show their disagreement as long as it isn't abusive or harassment. If they want to show their disagreement with OP by using high-school sarcasm, jokes, or by talking about how pointless the feedback post is, that's their prerogative and you need to get over it.

There's no double standard here, you're just seemingly incapable of seeing why you're defending the wrong perspective. The item doesn't need changing in any way whatsoever. IF people misuse it on a mass scale, sure... but trying to pre-emptively declare it as a source of evil just because you disagree with how "should" have been made in your opinion is pretty pathetic.

Why should this item be taken away from people who do like it just because some of you don't? Has anything bad happened yet? Are thousands of people Eorzea-wide trapping lalafellin folk in high chairs and torturing them with incessant sweet-eyes and "awws" right as we speak?

If you want a different high chair, ask for a different high chair and stop being so selfish and egotistical as to expect things to be changed to suit your tastes.

It appears to be your double standards that are showing.

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Originally Posted by Pyshiro

I don't want to even imagine going to people's in game houses or RP venues just to be told to go sit in the child's corner :(

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqnqvD-W...pg&name=medium

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They give you a free fantasia after completing ARR if you want to correct your mistake

Thats just rude as making a lalafell is not a mistake we do have feelings as well you know?

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

To be fair, no one should ever be excluded from any venue because of their race. I wad asked to leave a venue once because it had courtesans and they were uncomfortable having a Lala around. I flst out told them "No thanks. I think I'll stay around " they were a bit confused, but didn't harass me. I expected I might get reported and messaged by a GM, but nope, nothing.

Unless you have someone actually making a scene, you have no business telling certain players or races thst they can't be around.

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If you're at a venue and the people running it ask you to leave, what makes you think that is an okay response?

Lalafells are made to look like children. Why are they suddenly upset when they're given things made for children?

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

To be fair, no one should ever be excluded from any venue because of their race. I wad asked to leave a venue once because it had courtesans and they were uncomfortable having a Lala around. I flst out told them "No thanks. I think I'll stay around " they were a bit confused, but didn't harass me. I expected I might get reported and messaged by a GM, but nope, nothing.

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Of course they can exclude you from their venue because of their rules. If you don't like it leave and go somewhere else

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Originally Posted by SashenkaRed

They give you a free fantasia after completing ARR if you want to correct your mistake

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Hey don't make fun of Lalafells... they taste good with some garlic and salt.

In this insane age of safe spaces and gender dysphoria, everyone has lost their sense of humour. If someone pats my lala's head I demand a cookie and kick their shins if they don't. :D
I don't see what the big deal is with the baby chair. Some Lalas I see take comfort sitting on friends laps who hug them. I understand the OP's position, but on the other hand, the game is overflowing in RP. As long as sickos don't do anything perverse with Lalas, i don't see the harm. I am more offended by women being auctioned off so people can take nude doctored pictures of them, than a high chair. To me that is extremely creepy and degrading to women.

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Originally Posted by OziAuros

If you're at a venue and the people running it ask you to leave, what makes you think that is an okay response?

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Entitlement. Ego. Self-importance.

It's really poor form to force yourself on people who don't want you around, and only a certain kind of person would be bragging about that.

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Originally Posted by Pratini

Hey don't make fun of Lalafells... they taste good with some garlic and salt.

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That's way out of order!!!

You forgot herbs

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Originally Posted by Dragonlancer

In this insane age of safe spaces and gender dysphoria, everyone has lost their sense of humour. If someone pats my lala's head I demand a cookie and kick their shins if they don't. :D
I don't see what the big deal is with the baby chair. Some Lalas I see take comfort sitting on friends laps who hug them. I understand the OP's position, but on the other hand, the game is overflowing in RP. As long as sickos don't do anything perverse with Lalas, i don't see the harm. I am more offended by women being auctioned off so people can take nude doctored pictures of them, than a high chair. To me that is extremely creepy and degrading to women.

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Sir, this is a Wendy's...

UmmmWendy's Cheeseburger and a Frosty plz!!!

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Originally Posted by OziAuros

If you're at a venue and the people running it ask you to leave, what makes you think that is an okay response?

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Because I wasn't being rude.

Thankfully neither were they. They didn't just straight up tell me to leave and grab a bunch of their "bouncers" and surround me or other horror stories I have heard. They asked nicely, and I responded nicely that I had no intention of leaving.

I'm sure one or more of them probably kept an eye on me, but I never interacted with their courtesans. All I ever did was chat with my friends that I went to the venue with, and danced a bit on the floor. They had no reason to ask me to leave for that, and so I chose to stand my ground, but not do it in a way that made a scene or give credence to their complaint towards me. Thankfully nothing came of it. Stigma against Lalafells isn't going to get better by Lalafells making a scene and acting like the spoiled children they claim to not be, but likewise nothing will ever change if Lalafells just sit there and take the verbal abuse either. There is a constructive middle-ground somewhere.

RISE UP LALAS!!!! It's time we took over!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

Because I wasn't being rude.

Thankfully neither were they. They didn't just straight up tell me to leave and grab a bunch of their "bouncers" and surround me or other horror stories I have heard. They asked nicely, and I responded nicely that I had no intention of leaving.

I'm sure one or more of them probably kept an eye on me, but I never interacted with their courtesans. All I ever did was chat with my friends that I went to the venue with, and danced a bit on the floor. They had no reason to ask me to leave for that, and so I chose to stand my ground, but not do it in a way that made a scene or give credence to their complaint towards me. Thankfully nothing came of it. Stigma against Lalafells isn't going to get better by Lalafells making a scene and acting like the spoiled children they claim to not be, but likewise nothing will ever change if Lalafells just sit there and take the verbal abuse either. There is a constructive middle-ground somewhere.

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If you're being asked to leave, the correct response is to leave. There's no nuance to that. It's not your call to determine whether or not you're okay in somebody else's space. You don't get to determine what reasons they're allowed to have to want someone gone. They don't need a reason to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

Because I wasn't being rude.

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You're inherently being rude by staying in someone's property when they don't want you there, full stop. Unfortunately the game lacks a method of kicking/banning players from your own property, but if it did exist, it would be completely fine for them to kick you. It doesn't necessarily mean that they had a good reason to do it, and it's fine to be annoyed by it, but it is always someone's right to exclude you from their own space.

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Originally Posted by LostUser

Right, so what you actually mean to say is that you don't want any item in-game that can be misused or misconstrued in any way whatsoever? Got it.

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Now you're saying words I didn't say. Of course anything can and will be misconstrued. In the case of this item it's far too on the nose to give people who conflate height with age the exact kind of ammo they want while they continue to ignore the constant evidence in the story and Yoshi-P's own words.

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Originally Posted by LostUser

The purpose of complaining about the complaint is to show disagreement with the people wanting to take something away from the people who actually like it

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If you've actually read the responses, you'll see it's been nothing but people complaining about the complaint itself and not mentioning at all whether the item should remain or not. But hey, that would require you seeing things in a fair light and clearly, that's not your goal here.

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Originally Posted by LostUser

the fact that you think I'm conflating the two is just mind boggling to me. Since when did I say they're synonymous?

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I didn't think that, you've said it, in fact, you're saying it again. You're doubling down by calling it "toddler-like". Lalafell are short and cute, like a chibi, if you are conflating that with toddlers, that is, once again, a you issue.

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Originally Posted by LostUser

You don't get to police how other people choose to show their disagreement as long as it isn't abusive or harassment.

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Yet this whole exchange started because you took issue with a snarky remark on my part. Again, your double standards, they're showing.

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Originally Posted by LostUser

There's no double standard here, you're just seemingly incapable of seeing why you're defending the wrong perspective.

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And what exactly makes you think you're right? We're already seeing it here. The demeaning comments, people telling others they should fantasia to "correct the mistake" that is playing a lalafell. But no, please, tell me more about how you don't have any double standards and you totally don't have an issue with people simply asking to not give ammo to people like that.

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Originally Posted by LostUser

Why should this item be taken away from people who do like it just because some of you don't?

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...Which is why I don't think it should be removed, but its name and description tweaked. I said this at least three times, twice directly at you.

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Originally Posted by LostUser

If you want a different high chair, ask for a different high chair and stop being so selfish and egotistical as to expect things to be changed to suit your tastes.
It appears to be your double standards that are showing.

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I did... but you didn't bother reading that, you instead jumped to police me over a snarky remark instead of policing the people passing ad-hominems are proper arguments. But yeah, no double standards here.

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Originally Posted by Priddy

You're inherently being rude by staying in someone's property when they don't want you there, full stop. Unfortunately the game lacks a method of kicking/banning players from your own property, but if it did exist, it would be completely fine for them to kick you. It doesn't necessarily mean that they had a good reason to do it, and it's fine to be annoyed by it, but it is always someone's right to exclude you from their own space.

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I don't disagree with that, but I do feel you somewhat forfeit your ability to be upset about random people being on your property when you decide to make it a public venue. Now obviously that doesn't mean you should let anarchy reign or anything like that, but to ask someone to leave based solely on their race making someone(s) uncomfortable who never interacted with you? I take issue with that. Like I said, if they kept pressing the issue I would have left, but I decided to see how the situation played out. I know that was a risk, but I wanted it to be known, in a polite manner, that I didn't appreciate being asked to leave for what I felt was a poor reason.

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

I don't disagree with that, but I do feel you somewhat forfeit your ability to be upset about random people being on your property when you decide to make it a public venue. Now obviously that doesn't mean you should let anarchy reign or anything like that, but to ask someone to leave based solely on their race making someone(s) uncomfortable who never interacted with you? I take issue with that. Like I said, if they kept pressing the issue I would have left, but I decided to see how the situation played out. I know that was a risk, but I wanted it to be known, in a polite manner, that I didn't appreciate being asked to leave for what I felt was a poor reason.

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A venue invites people over for a specific purpose. They're public in the same way that a real life venue is public, and surprise, the same objections to that kind of behavior applies. If you're asked to leave a Wendy's, even if you're in the middle of eating your McWhopper, you should go. What their reasoning is, or what you think their reasoning is, does not matter. Refusing on the grounds of MUH RIGHTS is super wrong.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlancer

In this insane age of safe spaces and gender dysphoria, everyone has lost their sense of humour. If someone pats my lala's head I demand a cookie and kick their shins if they don't. :D
I don't see what the big deal is with the baby chair. Some Lalas I see take comfort sitting on friends laps who hug them. I understand the OP's position, but on the other hand, the game is overflowing in RP. As long as sickos don't do anything perverse with Lalas, i don't see the harm. I am more offended by women being auctioned off so people can take nude doctored pictures of them, than a high chair. To me that is extremely creepy and degrading to women.

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This has nothing to do with leftism. I'm extremely politically left-leaning, and this outrage is ridiculous. This has to do with terminally-online people who have difficulty separating their own identity with that of a video game character, and who take jokes about those characters as insults to their real life identity.

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Originally Posted by OziAuros

A venue invites people over for a specific purpose. They're public in the same way that a real life venue is public, and surprise, the same objections to that kind of behavior applies. If you're asked to leave a Wendy's, even if you're in the middle of eating your McWhopper, you should go. What their reasoning is, or what you think their reasoning is, does not matter. Refusing on the grounds of MUH RIGHTS is super wrong.

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But we've seen examples of that in real life where it did matter and business have even been fined for their behavior towards customers. That's an extreme example and isn't really analogous with an in-game venue, but the point is it's not necessarily okay to simply ask someone to leave.

I will fully admit in my particular scenario, if the situation had escalated I would have been in the wrong. 100%. I know that, and that's why I knew I was taking a risk by responding the way I did, but I felt it was worth taking. And like I've said, if they would have pressed the issue I would have left knowing full well the eventual outcome would have been me getting reported and a GM would have sided with the venue in this situation. But I willing chose to see how the situation played out knowing that the person who DMd me asked me kindly to leave rather than harass me, and I responded to them civilly, in kind, rather than throwing a temper tantrum. I went about my business the rest of that evening chatting with my friends and dancing and the situation, if you want to call it that, never escalated. That's the way it should have been from the get-go.

Posting in this goldmine of a thread my first ever forum post. Also if it hasn't been already said: The absolute state of NA FFXIV community.
If they do change it, i hope they leave us in EU out of it.

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

I will fully admit in my particular scenario, if the situation had escalated I would have been in the wrong.

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Nonono, you were wrong the moment you said no. No nuance to this. You were told you weren't welcome on somebody else's property. You leave. In your response, you even acknowledge that a GM would not have been on your side about this. You still pushed it. You decided, as an unwelcome guest, to continue to make people around you uneasy. That is not okay.

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Originally Posted by Pyshiro

There is no meaningful discussion to be found here. All I see is name calling and belittling. Think you should look in the mirror.

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If your main concern was about not giving haters ammunition to use against lalafell players, then making this thread probably wasn't the brightest idea.