it's not to hard to get it's just to random. with rng guy 1 can walk in get something piece of cake or a walk in the park.. "wow that was too easy". guy 2 could give everyminute of his online time trying to get items and get nowhere after weeks months possibly years due to the rng. "WTF????"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagato
there is no real difficulty only luck.
in the end it should take everyone an roughly equal amount of time and effort to get stuff done. not be a ridiculous gamble where some people need to put in 50x more time work and effort than others for the same reward due to the rng.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagato
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06-09-2012, 01:46 AMDzian
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06-09-2012, 02:07 AMGreen_and_a_Half
WTF, How is RNG differ from drop rate?
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Jaggedy-Eared_Jack
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...eared_jack.jpg
Rabbit Charm (1.4%)
Lottery Spawn from a Forest Hare at (G-9), (G-10), (H-9) or (H-10). Minimum re-spawn time is 50 minutes
Problem.
Its been around forever, you always have a change to get the drop per the drop rate %...
Its nothing new, go play in the street -
06-09-2012, 02:09 AMYukikoSo true!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonhaven
We need a progress-o-meter and not a grind to death...
Step by Step and not same again and again...
Fun and challenge before frustration and sadness...
Even for 24/7 players some Achievements are already ridiculous hard to get, how the other players feel then?
Currently it feels like doing those weapons once and quit gaming, so I have the progress done but fun totally destroyed. Is that the goal SE tries to accomplish? -
06-09-2012, 02:10 AMAlegisDiseases arent anything new and have been around all the time, but that doesnt mean they are good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_and_a_Half
Nothing wrong with improving existing systems/thinking about new ones. Thats called advancement/innovation.
Otherwise we would still only playing pinball. -
06-09-2012, 02:13 AMYuriSanNo you right lets give it an idiotic "whoever is the luckiest gets it" system...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vingtdeux
That totally makes sense.
Again for the milionth time....
NOBODY IS ASKING FOR IT TO BE EASYYY!!!
JUST NOT RANDOM!
There i hope peeps can now can actually read it.
And for the peps saying "pff casuals"
LMAO...
Ya support RNG.. thats totally hardcore tee hee... -
06-09-2012, 02:18 AMGreen_and_a_HalfIt is the fairest way to do it, everyone has the same chance. more times done, more of the same chance. fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alegis
The street is that way ---> -
06-09-2012, 02:24 AMTanoI agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alegis
It's also something you can buy. A player manages, after some years, to go 7/7 on Relics (or just gets what he/she wants). Then starts to sell double melded weapons items for 50-100m.
Bam! Buy Relics!
That's just stupid.
Worst way to get final weapons I've ever seen in a mmo. -
06-09-2012, 02:25 AMKagato
People keep failing to understand that they don't actually have to put in the time, effort, and "gamble" to do this. They could just, you know, stick to primal weapons.
Again, people just need to be honest and come right out and say that this event is too hard for them and they want it made easier. -
06-09-2012, 02:28 AMTano
SE should have just made normally-hard AF/relic weapons to get to complete AF sets, then add DIFFERENT LEGENDARY/ULTIMA weapons with this RNG quest. Nobody would have complained, since we were all expecting just relics/af weapons.
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06-09-2012, 02:31 AMTanoBest post of the threadQuote:
Originally Posted by YuriSan
Hopefully they'll get the point now, lol. -
06-09-2012, 02:33 AMChronicalSin
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06-09-2012, 02:34 AMMaxthunderYou are completely wrong. Example (has happened in game as I know ppl that it is happened to) Moogle fight: 1 player 4 runs straight got a drop, another player same 4 runs straight got nothing for the work. Now the player who got 4 drops straight got lucky and got the weapon he wanted guess what he was never seen again. Heres another example 20 wins in a row 1 player got 2 drops another got 0 drops, and again the player who got 2 drops only wanted 1 weapon well he gets a weapon he wanted on 2nd drop and again player never seen again. Now tell me how is that fair? It isnt fair reason being is 1 player has done same amount of runs yet they got nothing for the effort or work, there was no progress other than winning the fight. I know players who have done 100 wins yet they have not gotten a drop, so in the end those that get nothing do more work than those who get all the drops 1st. This is not fair and again some players have to put more work into whatever because of the luck based shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_and_a_Half
So I think you need to take your own advice and go PLAY IN THE STREETS!! The issue at hand is the DEVS r lazy and refuse to develop a system that is not based on luck. Yes the devs could sit down and come up w a system that isnt easy, rewards players, and shows progress. Hell SE and the devs have a system for some content in FFXI yet they refuse to use the old system and improve and build on it. The system is a point based system that you do whatever at the same time you earn points and when you have enough points you can than go and exchange/buy whatever it is you want. -
06-09-2012, 02:35 AMAlegisTroll or dumb? Vote now!Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronicalSin
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06-09-2012, 02:38 AMJinko
Wow just reading that OP post regarding what is required for these weapons, seriously screw that.
Yoshi-p is turning into Tanaka MK II.
If SE thinks these kinds of mechanics will appeal to average gamers (PS3 gamers, casual call em what you will) then they are clearly mistaken.
Whats the point of making 2.0 if you are going to suck the fun out of the game ? -
06-09-2012, 02:39 AMGreen_and_a_Halfall people in your example had the same chance to get the items, fair stillQuote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
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06-09-2012, 02:39 AMTriplicus
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06-09-2012, 02:40 AMKagato
I'm starting to get the feeling that people would rather hunt for 80 100% drop items rather than 10 30% drop items simply because it's not random.
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06-09-2012, 02:43 AMAlegisThe difference is: One did get it the other didnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_and_a_Half
Chance doesnt fill a Equipment slot. -
06-09-2012, 02:44 AMYuriSanYou must be one of them clevers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triplicus
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06-09-2012, 02:45 AMJinkoI would rather a karma system, it is the best of both worlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagato
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06-09-2012, 02:47 AMHoolieWho
8 people x 9 seals x ??? drop rate = too much hamlet defense.
This is my only problem with the new weapon requirements. Many varied tasks = good. Spamming events to death and beyond = bad.
Please change. Thank you.
Suggestion: Add the beastmen seals from hamlet to the loot pools of the primals. Make seals purchasable with beastmen currency. Have a chest for each person at the end of hamlet instead of one for all.
Edit2: Ok, if the drop rate on seals from hamlet is increased significantly with the new chest, then that takes away a big part of my complaint. Hamlet has its own issues though. Silly gimmicks like broken tools and low rank weapons need to go away. DoH and DoL need to be more than token participants if they are going to be included. -
06-09-2012, 02:50 AMJinko
^ Well that's the thing isn't it, Hamlet was a flop so they are now forcing us to do it lol
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06-09-2012, 02:50 AMGreen_and_a_Halfor your moms equip slotQuote:
Originally Posted by Alegis
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06-09-2012, 02:52 AMDuelleAgreed. Most people seem to have been expecting AF weapons rather than relics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tano
I'm not a fan of the system either way. I get that the devs want crafters to be part of the process, but materia melding in its randomness is only going to create a very unfair bottleneck, not to mention those class weapons are not exactly cheap to get; mailbreaker alone goes for about 3mil+ on Balmung (and lol at anyone who thinks 100m is easy to get). It's not even something shells can focus on by saying "ok we're going to first get Bravura for Pwnsu because he's our main tank, then the WHM staff for snuffy because he's our most reliable healer" and so on; that's how priority was set back in XI, and its one of those few things done by the community that made sense. In WoW we also set priorities to who we would get legendaries for based on their role and reliability. This system seems to entirely ignore that aspect of guild/shell structure. -
06-09-2012, 02:53 AMAveline
This relic "quest" is absurd.
Not only does it fail to give me any anticipation of an actually challenging journey/epic storyline to get my weapons, it also incredibly imbalances who gets the rewards. For any other "elite" weapon, if they want you to have to pay someone to craft it for you or whatever, fine. But these relic weapons are essentially a part of our AF. That is how they've been marketed to us. And now who gets the profit benefit from this? The crafters who can make the class-specific weapons and the gatherers who are high enough level to go get the material.
A relic/AF piece should not be something that other players make a profit off of. It should be a quest or a series of quests that makes the player feel challenged, immersed in the world and lore, and ultimately fulfilled once they have succeeded in the quest goals. Sitting in Ul'dah praying that my overpriced materia doesn't explode in my face is not fulfilling. Nor is it epic. It's a waste of my time and a cheap filler mission. They should have simply waited until 2.0 to give us relic weapons and actually spent time on a real quest, rather than this farce. -
06-09-2012, 02:55 AMAlegisIm not surprised something like thats comin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_and_a_Half
If someone like you dont have an argument left, they try to dumb down. -
06-09-2012, 02:56 AMGentaroIt's not about the difficulty here. And I believe that you'll see way more relics in XIV in about 2 months than you see in XI today. The quests are really really not hard, just very repetitive and based on luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggs
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06-09-2012, 02:59 AMJynxSee? People are over-reacting pretending that the relic weapons have some ungodly RNG elements to them. I'm pretty sure 20% chance to meld isn't impossible nor is gathering materials to make the weapon, nor is creating the materia you need through spirit bond, nor is beating CC/AV like we have been doing for a while now.Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriSan
I lolled!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
Ya you totally right, RNG is just fine the way it is. We can all
rely our entire progress in this game on our LUCK and the amount of time we
can spend to the game daily instead of our skillz. totally makes sense.
Unlucky people u can stop playing right now. no need to go on. lol.......
It's a lengthy process for sure, the reward may not be that great. But it's there for those who want it, and those who don't want to put the effort in...well that's just too bad for you.
Not everything in the game is going to be designed with your taste in mind, I hate instances and these damn instanced dungeons with a passion, I hope for more open world content with good rewards to show up. But you don't see me freaking out, I might mention I think it's the wrong way to go and here is what I think is a good idea...
But god forbid having a reasonable reaction. -
06-09-2012, 03:00 AMBiggs
You know what else is pure luck people still play all the time: Roulette. And yet, if you had the money, you could place a bet on more squares on the table to increase your odds of getting a win. Seal drops and chest drops in this are much the same people. If you work together with an LS and everyone is helping 2 or 3 people get there stuff at a time, this process goes much faster. Everyone seems to be approaching this like its solo content. I think many of you have been playing solo for so long you forgot what it was to make a static party a few times a week with some like mnded people and work towards a common long term goal. I don't think anything about this system is getting changed until 2.0, if then even, but who knows, maybe they will cave in again and give everyone easy mode. Time will tell I guess.
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06-09-2012, 03:02 AMAirgethm, let's compareQuote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
XIV:
9 seals, 3 from each Hamlet(ability to do as much as one desires and greater skill increases odd of obtaining seal)
25k GC seals(easy peasy)
Synthed class weapon(slightly challenging but involves crafters which said weapon should considering it's better then what can be crafted)
double meld(easy enough to spiritbond gear, persistence is the key)
Kill an NM(easy enough to find and dispose of)
Go into proper dungeon and obtain 3 of x material(ability to do said dugeon as much as one likes, speed and skill through dungeon increases odds of obtaining it)
Now let's look at Dynamis relic weapons:
-get off a mob in dynamis(remember back in the day this could only be done once every 3 days, not it's once a day)
-give to gob who ask for materials and currency
-continue this process up to the point where you have to kill a specific mob in glacier Dynamis(said mob requires you to jump through hoops in order to spawn and even then upon winning you aren't guaranteed the drop)
-Then you have to kill a specific mob in xarcabard(again same deal jump through hoops to get the requirements and then you have to defeat the NM before they get "bored" if you don't they warp out and you now have to wait 3 days to try again)
The currency itself equated to liek 6-12months worth of dynamis... for just one person.. So pray-tell how exactly does the 14 version compare to tanaka?
The requirements are fine as they are, so what if there are random number gens for some of these it's how you prevent others from exploiting the system. How would you feel if you worked hard to get your weapon only to find out that someone found a way to exploit a certain aspect of the challenge and then others followed and did the same thing. You'd be pissed wouldn't you. At least with RNG there's little chance that people can exploit it in their favor so it does weed out the potential of exploiting things plus it makes it easier to keep an eye on the parts that do require more skill the luck. If they find issues within the skill part then they can easily adjust it and fix it using the parts which are the RNG as a roadblock to prevent others from reaching the skill part that may be exploited.
Honestly I'll be very disappointed if the dev team actually listens to these complaints, from the sound of some people it sounds like they have progressed pretty far with their weapons so it definitely doesn't take a lot of time just persistence. The only thing they may offer if people want the weapons is offer some sort of imitation weapon that looks like the weapon but is as useful as a lv 1 arm. If you want the real thing then go for it, but don't complain that it's to hard or annoying to accomplish. These complaints are like saying the lottery is to hard to win they should lower the variables so more people win rather then less. that's the point of relics/artifacts whatever they want to go by. They are a status symbol for those who took the time to obtain it. -
06-09-2012, 03:06 AMBiggsI am failing to see what part of 6months to a year of Dynamis wasn't repetative and also based on luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentaro
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06-09-2012, 03:07 AMYuriSanQuote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
I lolled again, thanks man!
First "smidgen" now this? -
06-09-2012, 03:09 AMEdenArchangelShould be added/quoted in OP, imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aveline
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06-09-2012, 03:11 AMJynxIt's been like this from the begining. People whined that Ifrit never dropped weapons (they still do) I hear comments like "I went 0/150 on this fight!" when in fact it was probably once in every few fights that someone got a weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggs
Obviously the egregarious error in Primal battles (And I think hamlet) is that you can't pass the items you allready have or don't want. It really works against us working as a team to accomplish a goal as when your finished you have little motivation and can actually be a hinderance once you have finished. (I've got 3 moogle fists that have fallen to the ground after my first pair).
While I know SE is afraid of Linkshells abusing membership rights and drop-rights. There needs to be some way for us to be able to contribute as a team to eachother, I can't blame people for having a ME ME ME attitude when most systems in the game promote it.
Don't want a Ifrit blade? Well too bad that gladiator got the axe and you got the sword....Yay for seals!
SE needs to work on making proper teamwork more rewarding for linkshells, while maintaining a semblance of control of your loot if your with randoms. (Make the items drop into our own loot pool and allow us to pass them if we wish before they go into our inventory forever) -
06-09-2012, 03:12 AMZozor
I absolutely agree with the OP. Plus, many of their suggestions for how to increase challenge are excellent.
I've been very frustrated by this random chance stuff...
I don't know how many times I've killed Ifrit but I know that I've received more than one of every weapon except the axe... The axe I've received none of. Of course I'm a warrior and the axe is all I really want. It's incredibly frustrating. I wish I could have put that same amount of skill and dedication into something that would promise me the weapon instead of it being random. Now I don't know if I'll ever get it. -
06-09-2012, 03:13 AMDeadRiserI second this. So much truth in one post that people are ignoring of course. It's funny when someone brings up something that is so dead honestly true and counters them that they ignore it.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdenArchangel
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06-09-2012, 03:15 AMEnfariousNope but to reiterate, There was tangible progress with each step, it was not a maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggs
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06-09-2012, 03:18 AMTano
I believe that relic quest in 2.0 will be easier, but if you have a "dated" relic you can jump it and just upgrade your weapon to new cap.
Wait and see. -
06-09-2012, 03:19 AMsparty
I think system for relic weapon r good :) Hard for me that not playing game 24/24 but not impossible :)
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06-09-2012, 03:20 AMJinkoWhy are you comparing FF11 anyway, I never mentioned it did I ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Airget
It's more an issue of perception when comparing it to other MMO's on the market.
For a while now MMO's have been very open and accessible, many require great deals of work and effort to be put in to farm tokens etc yet give you some idea of the proximity of your goal.
I can appreciate what the dev team have tried to do here in making something fairly time consuming and difficult to obtain, but I think they have gone a step to far in the randomness.
I am all for working towards something and for it to take a long time to get powerful armour and weapons, but this in my personal opinion is not the best way to go about doing it.
Every time I hear someone say well maybe its not for you, I think well maybe this games not for me either, and I'm sure you will sit there all smug and nod in agreement but isn't the whole point of 2.0 to bring in new customers and keep them, not scare them away with impossible looking odds.
Of course you can't live in a bubble either, there are multiple MMO's on the market that have much more accessible content why would someone choose a game where you are hammered into the ground like a dog than one where you feel as if you can work at your own speed and still progress without a constant reminder that luck is not actually on your side.