What change do you want to see on your main class for Endwalker ?

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Originally Posted by Jirah

This zombie of a job is nothing more but a pale reflection of what I loved of what I Mained! Starting to see Emet’s point now

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So was the Shadowbringers plot and its arguably understandable villainous motives supposed to mirror the job changes, or the inverse?

I rather see a proper Trait System with meaningful options and customization that changed the current way classes play and give us diversity than merely more skills, more cuts and more of the same.

All jobs play and are the same.

Stop it. Change it.

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

I rather see a proper Trait System with meaningful options and customization that changed the current way classes play and give us diversity than merely more skills, more cuts and more of the same.

All jobs play and are the same.

Stop it. Change it.

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The dpsers actually are pretty diverse with how their mechanics work, dunno where you're coming from... Unless you mean in an individual job level - e.g. Every Ninja play the same. To that, though I wouldn't raise a lot of hopes it seems that ever since ARR inception, the developers are very attached to this model, probably because is way easier to balance.

Said that, however, I do think the tank role, and the healers in some extent, could have a bit more diversity among the jobs.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

The dpsers actually are pretty diverse with how their mechanics work, dunno where you're coming from... Unless you mean in an individual job level - e.g. Every Ninja play the same. To that, though I wouldn't raise a lot of hopes it seems that ever since ARR inception, the developers are very attached to this model, probably because is way easier to balance.

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Yeah i meant "in Job", but actually also through all the role, even the DPS roles.

Balance at the expense of fun, diverse and engaging gameplay is not worth it. That all classes have only one way to be played or they are played wrong is not balance, is boring.

First of all, stop simplifying the jobs. Raise the skill floor please and thanks.

Second of all, BRD needs HELP. And not as far as playstyle or personal potency goes; we need our SUPPORT back. They didn't have to empty us out when they released DNC, they really didn't. We need foe requiem back yesterday. Other than that I'd like to see some way to prevent overcapping on procs. 3 bloodletter charges and pitch perfect storage. Watching your soul gauge tick up after you've procced something before you get to weave it is painful. Same goes for apex arrow, getting procs after it's already filled to 100, a way to store that would be nice, or simply change the conditions of its use. Delete army's muse, it's literally detrimental to the job and causes constant clipping. Finally, make shadowbite spread our dots once and for all (we really don't need enhanced quick nock). And keep it on the 60s cooldown so no one whines about it being too strong.

As far as selfish and unrealistic wants, truthfully I dislike soul gauge as it is; it would be much cooler if you built it up and depleted it on a party buff, or even just a self buff. I would also like to see wide volley return as a second part to an aoe combo, or make it an aoe version of refulgent arrow with boosted potency. It would also be nice to have a channeling ability that fills up soul gauge to use during downtime. That or just give us our own version of barrel stabilizer. It would also be nice if army's paean had better effects. Maybe give us a way to end it the way smn has deathflare (apex arrow repurpose?), or boost the proc rate of refulgent while in it, or something else other than just a useless haste buff. An upgraded version of raging strikes would be nice to see. Nature's minne could also stand to become aoe with a weaker percentage. Also, some form of mp usage! So we can get refresh back! Anything to give us music-playing animations with support effects I want, I want to be a REAL bard again!

I'm not a game designer so I'm not sure how realistic or unrealistic any of these are, but I feel like my first list is stuff that actually needs to happen.

Also particle effects. We need better particle effects and it's not even debatable. Maybe an upgraded raging strikes could give us a music note aura, or we could get auras based on what song we're playing. Either way make us sparkle a little bit more! We're the flamboyant musicians, come on!

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Originally Posted by Raikai

The dpsers actually are pretty diverse with how their mechanics work, dunno where you're coming from...

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Compared to what, outside of XIV's notoriously homogeneous tanks and healers?

After seeing the benchmark. Looks like I will be staying a MCH main still.

MCH finally obtain a Shotgun!

As for changes, I hope for some more Gun focus skills like the new Shotgun attack MCH will get along with maybe the Summon Mech having a bit more function.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

After seeing the benchmark. Looks like I will be staying a MCH main still.

MCH finally obtain a Shotgun!

As for changes, I hope for some more Gun focus skills like the new Shotgun attack MCH will get along with maybe the Summon Mech having a bit more function.

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I saw that shotgun! It’s amazing!

After three expansions of disappointment, seeing Monk having Tornado Kick 2 doesn't really lend me to having any faith until I can actually see the tool tip. It'd be more or less in line with Monk's development historically for it to only be useable when you have weakness or some other absurd requirement that may as well render it unusable.

Improvements to the pet AI.
I don't want them to take them away, I just want them to be more responsive.

Yes I am worried that I didn't see an egi in the benchmark. :(
(please se, don't shoot my dog. I bought carbuncle merch from you)

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Originally Posted by Roda

Yes I am worried that I didn't see an egi in the benchmark. :(
(please se, don't shoot my dog. I bought carbuncle merch from you)

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Don't worry; your dog will now have effectively infinite HP, never stray too far, and will never act outside of your commands. Isn't that an improvement?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Don't worry; your dog will now have effectively infinite HP, never stray too far, and will never act outside of your commands. Isn't that an improvement?

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No.. TT~TT

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Originally Posted by Roda

Improvements to the pet AI.
I don't want them to take them away, I just want them to be more responsive.

Yes I am worried that I didn't see an egi in the benchmark. :(
(please se, don't shoot my dog. I bought carbuncle merch from you)

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There is an egi in the benchmark: https://imgur.com/a/1nBiPdb

The Summoner is partially out of frame and casting Painflare, by the time you see him the mob has died and Ifrit is already automatically moving to a new target so it's harder to get a clear shot. So, essentially, not only are egis still in the game, they aren't Reaper ogcds either and by all appearances still functionally the same as live. It is hilariously conspicuous that they never pause to show the summoner doing anything, at any point, but there is one in the background.

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Originally Posted by Flana

There is an egi in the benchmark: https://imgur.com/a/1nBiPdb

The Summoner is partially out of frame and casting Painflare, by the time you see him the mob has died and Ifrit is already automatically moving to a new target so it's harder to get a clear shot. So, essentially, not only are egis still in the game, they aren't Reaper ogcds either and by all appearances still functionally the same as live. It is hilariously conspicuous that they never pause to show the summoner doing anything, at any point, but there is one in the background.

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Oh thank god! Good eyes! I was worried about that end scene with the smn not having an egi in view.
(I just went back and looked holy crap! that was a fast flyby! REALLY good eyes!)
(wait nope there's another one. I'm blind as a bat! lmao)

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Originally Posted by Flana

There is an egi in the benchmark: https://imgur.com/a/1nBiPdb

The Summoner is partially out of frame and casting Painflare, by the time you see him the mob has died and Ifrit is already automatically moving to a new target so it's harder to get a clear shot. So, essentially, not only are egis still in the game, they aren't Reaper ogcds either and by all appearances still functionally the same as live. It is hilariously conspicuous that they never pause to show the summoner doing anything, at any point, but there is one in the background.

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Hmm maybe the egis are there just to auto attack and their special abilities come from the summoner. In the last bit the summoner did a charge move and like absorbed ifrit it looked like. Looks very cool. Can’t wait to see more during job actions.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Hmm maybe the egis are there just to auto attack and their special abilities come from the summoner. In the last bit the summoner did a charge move and like absorbed ifrit it looked like. Looks very cool. Can’t wait to see more during job actions.

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it didnt absorb ifrit its just in the middle of an auto attack

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Hmm maybe the egis are there just to auto attack and their special abilities come from the summoner. In the last bit the summoner did a charge move and like absorbed ifrit it looked like. Looks very cool. Can’t wait to see more during job actions.

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You can still see Ifrit behind him attacking the mob, it's more clear once the camera shifts that he's still there. Very interesting that the Summoner essentially got Flame Rush from the ifrit fight. Maybe SE finally remembered the rest of the primals exist and we'll get more than just coil mage.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

After three expansions of disappointment, seeing Monk having Tornado Kick 2 doesn't really lend me to having any faith until I can actually see the tool tip. It'd be more or less in line with Monk's development historically for it to only be useable when you have weakness or some other absurd requirement that may as well render it unusable.

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If I had to guess I'm going to assume that it's quite literally just Tornado Kick but AoE since it was shown alongside what looked like an AoE Shoha. What an absolute waste. As if we need anymore jobs taking MCH's example of useless AoE padding.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

After three expansions of disappointment, seeing Monk having Tornado Kick 2 doesn't really lend me to having any faith until I can actually see the tool tip. It'd be more or less in line with Monk's development historically for it to only be useable when you have weakness or some other absurd requirement that may as well render it unusable.

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Take this with a grain of salt, but the visual rules it's following is that of a Weaponskill.

The AoE Shoha notably features the blue swirl that almost every single OGCD utilizes with very few exceptions.

The Monk's double kick utilizes the yellow swirl that almost every weaponskill does.

With this in mind, the Red Mage is utilizing a Lightning spell. The Machinist is showcasing two potential weaponskills (Clean Shot old animation and Shotgun.)

The warrior is an OGCD attack. Paladin/Dark OGCD defenses, Gunbreaker an OGCD attack.

Dancer an OGCD.

Ninja an OGCD.

Black Mage a fire spell.

Scholar a friendly shield. OGCD

White mage a friendly shield. OGCD

Dragoon a weaponskill (Full Thrust upgrade seems to be the consensus)

Alphi showcases an instant cast spell (Likely a DoT).

Astro does an OGCD shield, and no idea on the second ast. Camera chooses that time to go crazy, but it's a spell. Malefic 4-2.

Bard does a cone attack reminiscence of Refulgent shot. (Weaponskill)

Summoner does an instant cast Spell that charges it forward and explodes. (Egi assault replacement?)

I am only utilizing the in-combat engine visuals as the opening, second part of the Garlean combat segment, and Zenos encounter are all heavily cinematic.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Take this with a grain of salt, but the visual rules it's following is that of a Weaponskill.

The AoE Shoha notably features the blue swirl that almost every single OGCD utilizes with very few exceptions.

The Monk's double kick utilizes the yellow swirl that almost every weaponskill does.

With this in mind, the Red Mage is utilizing a Lightning spell. The Machinist is showcasing two potential weaponskills (Clean Shot old animation and Shotgun.)

The warrior is an OGCD attack. Paladin/Dark OGCD defenses, Gunbreaker an OGCD attack.

Dancer an OGCD.

Ninja an OGCD.

Black Mage a fire spell.

Scholar a friendly shield. OGCD

White mage a friendly shield. OGCD

Dragoon a weaponskill (Full Thrust upgrade seems to be the consensus)

Alphi showcases an instant cast spell (Likely a DoT).

Astro does an OGCD shield, and no idea on the second ast. Camera chooses that time to go crazy, but it's a spell. Malefic 4-2.

Bard does a cone attack reminiscence of Refulgent shot. (Weaponskill)

Summoner does an instant cast Spell that charges it forward and explodes. (Egi assault replacement?)

I am only utilizing the in-combat engine visuals as the opening, second part of the Garlean combat segment, and Zenos encounter are all heavily cinematic.

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I definitely think the scholar ability was not a shield. More like a haste type ability. Since it seems to be turning into a buffing healer like astrologian. It’s only right they give them some buffs. Whm was a shield though for sure.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

I definitely think the scholar ability was not a shield. More like a haste type ability. Since it seems to be turning into a buffing healer like astrologian. It’s only right they give them some buffs. Whm was a shield though for sure.

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That's the problem with ally targeting abilities (And something they really need to work on with job actions trailers).

Who knows WTF they do.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Take this with a grain of salt, but the visual rules it's following is that of a Weaponskill.

The AoE Shoha notably features the blue swirl that almost every single OGCD utilizes with very few exceptions.

The Monk's double kick utilizes the yellow swirl that almost every weaponskill does.

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Because I'm desperate, I've tried to look at the MNK skill more closely. While it does have the effect indicating a weaponskill, it doesn't have the gain buff effect either that its form skills have, meaning that it's probably independent like SSS.

The hopeful part of me wants to believe it's a Blitz attack, but I'm going to refrain from any wild speculation like that until the actual tooltips/job action trailer drops.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Because I'm desperate, I've tried to look at the MNK skill more closely. While it does have the effect indicating a weaponskill, it doesn't have the gain buff effect either that its form skills have, meaning that it's probably independent like SSS.

The hopeful part of me wants to believe it's a Blitz attack, but I'm going to refrain from any wild speculation like that until the actual tooltips/job action trailer drops.

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Interesting to note. Even SSS has it due to providing the speed buff. That implies this is a separate weaponskill with a separate purpose.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

The Machinist is showcasing two potential weaponskills (Clean Shot old animation and Shotgun.)

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Definitely likes the idea of a shotgun. Clean shot old animation is a bit weird to see, maybe it was just for the purpose of not using a flashy skill.

It's way too early to know what the shotgun will do or what part it plays in the rotation, but all we know is that it's an AoE.
Maybe Spreadshot combo? At worst, Spread Shot trait (which will ironically make the MCH use less and less his gun). Or it could be an action that finally consumes heat and that is not Hypercharge.

Heat gauge is always tied to gunplay so it would make sense for the shotgun to be tied to it. Be it generating heat or consuming heat.

For now, wait and see. It would be cool if Yoshida could be interviewed about the jobs and the direction chosen. But for now, we have to wait for Job Action trailer which may happen earlier.
Please don't be just another AoE tool.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Compared to what, outside of XIV's notoriously homogeneous tanks and healers?

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I'm not sure what you mean if you excluded the only example it could be compared to, since there are no other combat roles available.

Dps jobs have very different mechanics and playstyles. All jobs are relatively simple at the skill floor (some, like RDM being more beginner friendly), but many of them have very high skill ceilings.

The only thing you may find similar between the dps jobs are that most of them have a resource (bar or charges) to build/spend and a burst window in the rotation. But how they build and spend resources, or access these burst windows, are unique to almost every job.

Yep, Ifrit Egi is still here!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...81/199/304.gif

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Yep, Ifrit Egi is still here!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...81/199/304.gif

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As much as I wanted the "just demi trances" SMN, I'm fine with Egis staying... as long as they stop being a clunky mess.

I kinda wonder what is going to happen, because they appear to still be a separate entity from the SMN. But what we saw was the SMN himself actually doing an Ifrit-esque charge towards the boss.

It's really puzzling. Are they getting a melee phase? That's the only thing that could justify it. I wonder if Egi Assaults are gone and the caster gets abilities that changes according to the summoned Egi. Moving the cast from the pet itself to the summoner would be the only way I see that they could go forward with it still being separate. (Unless they did some overhaul in the battle code, and is more responsive?)

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I'm not sure what you mean if you excluded the only example it could be compared to, since there are no other combat roles available.

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Literally. Any. Other. MMORPG. Or. Role-split. Class-based. Game.

Pointing at XIV's even more homogenous roles doesn't make the last any less homogenous.

Also, for the Ninjas:

In the trailer 2:44 there's an offensive Wind mudra cast!

looks too simple to be a 4 mudra combo... I wonder if Kassatsu will get an upgrade to Huton for it tho, but also what role it would fill?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Take this with a grain of salt, but the visual rules it's following is that of a Weaponskill.

The AoE Shoha notably features the blue swirl that almost every single OGCD utilizes with very few exceptions.

The Monk's double kick utilizes the yellow swirl that almost every weaponskill does.

With this in mind, the Red Mage is utilizing a Lightning spell. The Machinist is showcasing two potential weaponskills (Clean Shot old animation and Shotgun.)

The warrior is an OGCD attack. Paladin/Dark OGCD defenses, Gunbreaker an OGCD attack.

Dancer an OGCD.

Ninja an OGCD.

Black Mage a fire spell.

Scholar a friendly shield. OGCD

White mage a friendly shield. OGCD

Dragoon a weaponskill (Full Thrust upgrade seems to be the consensus)

Alphi showcases an instant cast spell (Likely a DoT).

Astro does an OGCD shield, and no idea on the second ast. Camera chooses that time to go crazy, but it's a spell. Malefic 4-2.

Bard does a cone attack reminiscence of Refulgent shot. (Weaponskill)

Summoner does an instant cast Spell that charges it forward and explodes. (Egi assault replacement?)

I am only utilizing the in-combat engine visuals as the opening, second part of the Garlean combat segment, and Zenos encounter are all heavily cinematic.

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I think the smn charge is like "Between the lines" from BLM but towards your pet and for damage.

But I can't figure out why they would add something like that to SMN because of its insane mobility compare to other casters. Maybe they took away smns instant casts?

For Summoner the only real thing I want changed/fixed is the pet action lag. Maybe a new way to build up Ruin IV charges as well that don't depend on pet actions.

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Originally Posted by seraf

For Summoner the only real thing I want changed/fixed is the pet action lag. Maybe a new way to build up Ruin IV charges as well that don't depend on pet actions.

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Looking at the trailer, the pet seems to be its own entity still. But... we don't see it performing any Egi-Assaults, so I wonder if they actually move Egi-assaults to the SMN themselves (under a new ability name)? This would fix the pet lag.

Maybe the egis are there jus to auto attack and maybe cast supporting abilities like Devotion?

I'm still puzzled on why the move showcased puts the SMN in melee range, though.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Looking at the trailer, the pet seems to be its own entity still. But... we don't see it performing any Egi-Assaults, so I wonder if they actually move Egi-assaults to the SMN themselves (under a new ability name)? This would fix the pet lag.

Maybe the egis are there jus to auto attack and maybe cast supporting abilities like Devotion?

I'm still puzzled on why the move showcased puts the SMN in melee range, though.

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I’m guessing that it’s an Egi-related movement ability (or replacement/upgrade to Ifrit’s Egi Assault II), and Ifrit’s version happens to charge both you and Ifrit at your target. The real question is what it does on the other two. The obvious interpretation is it’s supposed to put Summoner at parity with Red Mage and Black Mage with their movement abilities, when Summoner already has excessive amounts of instant-cast GCDs.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

I’m guessing that it’s an Egi-related movement ability (or replacement/upgrade to Ifrit’s Egi Assault II), and Ifrit’s version happens to charge both you and Ifrit at your target. The real question is what it does on the other two. The obvious interpretation is it’s supposed to put Summoner at parity with Red Mage and Black Mage with their movement abilities, when Summoner already has excessive amounts of instant-cast GCDs.

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maybe the summoner's gameplay is drastically changing and they've reduced our mobility.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Looking at the trailer, the pet seems to be its own entity still. But... we don't see it performing any Egi-Assaults, so I wonder if they actually move Egi-assaults to the SMN themselves (under a new ability name)? This would fix the pet lag.

Maybe the egis are there jus to auto attack and maybe cast supporting abilities like Devotion?

I'm still puzzled on why the move showcased puts the SMN in melee range, though.

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Well if that is true than it's a step back. Considering I need Ifrit to have a gap closer, not myself. If I'm in the back field finishing up Demi; I want to command Ifrit to dash to target rather than slowly float. Honestly the lag only bugs me because it cost a charge if I miss because the mobs move out of range or my own stupidity, but once you know the fights that becomes a minimal issue.

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Originally Posted by seraf

For Summoner the only real thing I want changed/fixed is the pet action lag. Maybe a new way to build up Ruin IV charges as well that don't depend on pet actions.

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Do me a favor when you log in later, command Egi Assault and see how long it take to go off. I'm running between 1.5s and 2s but not sure if this is the norm or exception. If it's under 2.5s, that's not bad considering it's similar to casting a spell except you can move around. When I envisioned command the Egi, it was a cast timer with the animation of written in a book.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

MCH,Snip

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Sadly MCH is so helpless and malnourished idk wtf they can possible do to add onto it .which implies change which I doubt they’ll do any kind of significant change which will both evolve the job and please the mains that like baseless dribble akin to a toddler and a toy hammer I jest I jest but let’s see what you have in mind being the only McH main that I’ve met that I agree with.

MCH with a melee is a nice novelty but without a 1-2-3, and a oddball CD and effects what exactly will MCH do all this time then? It started to sound like SAM but lost me with the CD and effects

Flamethrower was only vital in 4.0 due to no other way to generate heat to overheat status, without it a lot of skills lost their meaning including heat itself being a safe joke and lost its only charm. Idk how a rework would benefit it but at the very least either have it generate heat or have it act like a Finisher for aoe and lose heat per tick and significantly increasing potency. That’s the approach id go to keep it

I’ve written full reworks for MCH but I know dam well not to post it here where MCH is praised so obnoxiously and most times I’ve had Wildfire have a job gauge, it used to be central to MCH damage but it is desperate for a rework and I’ll take anything and agree

Agree less spam, we don’t need a freakin Ranged job be a spam job no other DPS is that boring to utilize such a “safe” Approach for damage . Wouldn’t mind heat to be reworked to be more unique to MCH instead of a generic gauge as heats only really good for 1 skill in ST fights and it’s a remnant of 4.0 Gauss heat when it made sense with the heater rotation now being Boorish and unearned

Queen is completely toothless and is a poster child of everything wrong with modern job design being all flash and flare but not fire or substance. 4.0 mains complained about lack of turret skills and control when promotion was scrapped and they solved this by removing even more to the point it’s no longer vital for wildfire which itself a lateral now. Queen needs to complement the kit and the only string it has is battery which is essentially a inorganic Apex arrow dot, and apex isn’t even that good....or ya know just delete it might as well if it’s this non-essential

No more aoe?
Benchmark trailer: Here’s another Aoe, Have fun never using it! But I agree even the aoe kit is pretty offputting nothing blends with Ricochet and is yet another spam move and flamethrower and bio have no synergy what so ever. Only Auto does and it’s kinda boring. No bishop so no battery skills for that. They need to streamline and sew together these skills before adding anymore like Shotgun.

Role skills do need a tune up, they cater to a philosophy that is dead. Leg and foot graze are fun to do one to slow and one to heavy but dungeon design is very limited and doesn’t have situations like these anymore. Idk what they’ll add but I’m down for anything

Summoner's Ifrit Dash could just be Ifrit's dash mechanic in the Bowl of Embers trial - that we managed to add to our arsenal. In that sense, we would technically have "big summons" in the form of a single use ability. Egis have egi assaults, but we can temporarily manifest a primal's ability temporarily with the egi summoned. Maybe it's just an ability we have acquired from each primal separate from egis, and summons like Bahamut and Phoenix are different. That, or it's just Enkindle upgraded.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

Summoner's Ifrit Dash could just be Ifrit's dash mechanic in the Bowl of Embers trial - that we managed to add to our arsenal. In that sense, we would technically have "big summons" in the form of a single use ability. Egis have egi assaults, but we can temporarily manifest a primal's ability temporarily with the egi summoned. Maybe it's just an ability we have acquired from each primal separate from egis, and summons like Bahamut and Phoenix are different. That, or it's just Enkindle upgraded.

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Hmm, I watched it at .25 speed and the SMN does nothing as a fancy precursor, just started running lol. As a caster though, I normally try to stay out of melee range so I'm not sure about running head long into it.

SMN:
+ Add Further Ruin procs/charges to the job gauge. How is this not a thing?
+ Make Physick...good. Or delete it. But if it's going to be there, should be worth pressing.
+ Titan egi. Why can't it tank anymore? Can we have that back? (Assuming it isn't gutted in rework).
+ Work out the ghosting, responsiveness, etc. I don't have strong opinions on rework ideas.

MCH:
+ Heat Blast spam gets old. I love the increased pace under Hypercharge, and how often we get to use it, but would like more interesting/dynamic ability use.

SAM:
+ Be aware of button bloat. SAM chews through my usual comfy keybinds and into new territory. Makes me nervous about a new expansion with new abilities I need to find room for.
+ Merciful Eyes feels meh. Delete it and bake the heal into Seigan? Third Eye changes to Seigan upon successful proc. Shaves two buttons off the bar.

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Originally Posted by Daws

SMN:
+ Titan egi. Why can't it tank anymore? Can we have that back? (Assuming it isn't gutted in rework).

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I mean, do we even need it (as a separate pet) anymore?

I feel like it'd be more sensible to simply remove it, repurpose its skin as an Egi Glamour option and make its shield effect as a separate Aetherpact skill.
Either that or "merge" both Summon II and Summon III into a single one.

Other than that, your suggestions on SMN are legit.